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Tags gravity , homeopathy , photons , quantum mechanics

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Old 11th October 2004, 12:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by davefoc
Is there any evidence that homeopaths are not afflicted with the ills they claim to be able to treat?
Quite the reverse. They seem to have permanent ill health either real or imagined and all of them seem to be self-medicating with magic water or sugar most of the time.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showt...threadid=42966

A lot of it is hypochcondria. Some of it is real chronic disease.

If the proof of the pudding is in the eating, in this case it is half-baked.
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Old 11th October 2004, 01:55 AM   #82
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[quote]Kumar said in response to davefoc claim that there is no such thing as a homeopathic effect :

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, Have You become soafraid of, that if homeopathy may get some technical/scientific explanation by this. It is not so simple esp. under $IM umbrella. I feel:-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Kumar, to the degree that you believe anything believe this, I am not afraid homeopathy will be shown to be real.[/b]

devefoc, The above quote was not meant for you as you never avoided the replies.

Reg Homeopathy, we can each think & comment according to our personal studies, views, interests, hypnotised , experiances etc., nothing yet 'absolute'.

Btw, what is "Magnetocaloric effect" "pyroelectric effect" and "piezoelectric effect"? How Silicon is related to it?
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Old 11th October 2004, 02:35 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified
As I explained to you before, Kumar, and you've apparently ignored, magnetizing a piece of iron does transfer energy from one permenant magnet to another. If the original magnet was also a permenant ferromagnet, it's field will be reduced.

The energy stored in a magnetic field is proportional to the square of the strength of the magnetic field, integrated over all space, so it does not take very much energy away from a strong magnet to magnetize something else weakly, however.
Ok, if it is like this then just tell:-

What happens when we rub any magnet on iron & seprate these two away from each other's MF? DOES total MF of both still remains same or differ?

Where our applied KE on keeping iron or rubbing magnet goes?

In this respect I read one interesting differant aspect:-

Quote:
FRICTION IS NOT CAUSED BY SURFACE ROUGHNESS

Some books point to surface roughness as the explanation of sliding friction. Surface roughness merely makes the moving surfaces bounce up and down as they move, and any energy lost in pushing the surfaces apart is regained when they fall together again. Friction is mostly caused by chemical bonding between the moving surfaces; it is caused by stickyness. Even scientists once believed this misconception, and they explained friction as being caused by "interlocking asperites", the "asperites" being microscopic bumps on surfaces. But the modern sciences of surfaces, of abrasion, and of lubrication explain sliding friction in terms of chemical bonding and "stick & slip" processes. The subject is still full of unknowns, and new discoveries await those who make surface science their profession


When thinking about friction, don't think about grains of sand on sandpaper. Instead think about sticky adhesive tape being dragged along a surface.
???
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Old 11th October 2004, 06:03 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
How Silicon is related to it?
HOORAY!!! Can I call "Bingo!" and we start a new game?
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Old 11th October 2004, 06:11 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
DOES total MF of both still remains same or differ?
Kumar

I don't know for sure, but had you heard that in many large urban centres there are very large MFs that can seriously adversely affect your mobile phones and credit cards?

The effect is most pronounced when the MF emerges behind a horizontally orientated metal tube open at the end nearest the phone or credit cards. I've even heard that if the card or mobile phone does not pass into the vicinity of the metal tube, so nullifying the effect, an explosive discharge can ensue.

Since I am not a physicist I am not sure what credence to give these reports.
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Old 11th October 2004, 08:54 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Btw, what is ... "piezoelectric effect"? How Silicon is related to it?
Wrong woo, kumar. Piezoelectricity is misunderstood and abused by crystal nuts traditionally, not homeopaths. Though I suppose there's no reason you can't be confused about that, too.

For anyone else still suffering through this thread, silicon is not piezoelectric because it is a single element in a symmetric crystal lattice. Piezoelectricity involves an electrically polar molecule in a crystal lattice, the stereotypical example being quartz. A voltage on the crystal causes the crystal lattice to flex, and a mechanical deformation of the crystal results in a voltage.

How this can possibly be related to homeopathy I have no idea...
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Old 11th October 2004, 09:35 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zombified

How this can possibly be related to homeopathy I have no idea...
Trituration. Though, possibly, you were better not knowing.
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Old 11th October 2004, 09:43 AM   #88
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Oh, right, I should have figured that out. Of course, glass is actually silicon dioxide, but it's amorphous, not crystalline, and it's not piezoelectric. So, wrong again, Kumar, though I expect we'll see piezoelectricity on your list of decided questions in the near future none-the-less.
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Old 11th October 2004, 10:04 AM   #89
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When Kumar first appeared here, one of his main obsessions was the idea that all homoeopathic remedies might in fact be the Tissue Remedy "silicea", accidentally produced by the grinding of the triturition, or by osmosis through storing the finished remedies in glass bottles. Thus, the fact that homoeopathy "works" is in fact proof that silicea is the cure for what ails you.

Did aspirin stop working when they moved to plastic bottles, anybody notice?

The thing that really amuses me about Kumar is the way he will come across some new (to him) concept like the piezoelectric effect, and all his little mind can think to do with it is to say "hey, maybe this is how homoeopathy works!" So he goes to find people who actually understand this new effect, and asks them to explain it to him. Trusting that they are knowledgeable people who really do understand it and can explain it.

But then when these same people say, no, Kumar, actually we really do understand this effect and there's no way that it can possibly be related to homoeopathy, trust us, if it was we'd have noticed, Kumar says no, you're all so stupid and closed-minded, I understand all this much better than you do.

What a yo-yo.

Rolfe.
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Old 11th October 2004, 08:52 PM   #90
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Read interesting discussions here. Do you have any awnser/comment to this:-

How many magnets can a single magnet make before it is no longer magnetic?

"A magnet can effect the magnetism of an unlimited number of objects with out loss of force or energy to itself" Which suugests that magnetic force is not conserved but actually propagated..
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Old 12th October 2004, 03:58 AM   #91
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I have asked this question there also:-

Avogadro's Law--Do we have some concept alike it in case sub-atomic substance like energy, force, radiations etc. Can these be diluted out at any level or can magnetic field be diluted out at any level alike Avogadro's Law?

another one:-

Two types 'work done' or applied energy is there in magnetizing. One by us & another by origional magnet for alignment. I want to know that IF the applied energy by us in keeping magnet near to iron or rubbing it on iron AND by origional magnet of lining up is reversed back to us or to original magnet in some form or not?
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Old 12th October 2004, 04:30 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Read interesting discussions here. Do you have any awnser/comment to this:-

How many magnets can a single magnet make before it is no longer magnetic?

"A magnet can effect the magnetism of an unlimited number of objects with out loss of force or energy to itself" Which suugests that magnetic force is not conserved but actually propagated..
The last sentence is meaningless. There is no contradiction between conserved and propagated. And you keep confusing force and energy, they are different things.

Let's try agan: An ideal permanent magnet does not loose strength when used to magnetize something (e.g. a nail).

The "new" magnet field does not come from anywhere, it is already in the nail, because each of the molecules inside the nail is a small magnet.

When you magnetize the nail, you use the external magent field to align (some of) the molecules in the nail, so that their magnet fields point in the same direction, therefore their combined magnet fields are now detectable as a magnet field around the nail.

The energy needed to align the molecules comes from the outside, as movement energy, if you align them with a permanent magnet, or electrical energy if you align them with an electromagnet.

Hans
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Old 12th October 2004, 04:45 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by MRC_Hans

The energy needed to align the molecules comes from the outside, as movement energy, if you align them with a permanent magnet, or electrical energy if you align them with an electromagnet.

Hans
Thanks. Rest is ok but can you explain 'this outside energy cycle' in detail. (sorry, if I am asking to repeat)
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Old 12th October 2004, 04:48 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
have asked this question there also:-

Avogadro's Law--Do we have some concept alike it in case sub-atomic substance like energy, force, radiations etc. Can these be diluted out at any level or can magnetic field be diluted out at any level alike Avogadro's Law?

Yes, since magnet fields do also follow quantum mechanics, there is a minimum quantum of a magnet field that can exist, a virtual photon. Thus, a magent field can be "diluted out of existence".

another one:-

Two types 'work done' or applied energy is there in magnetizing. One by us & another by origional magnet for alignment. I want to know that IF the applied energy by us in keeping magnet near to iron or rubbing it on iron AND by origional magnet of lining up is reversed back to us or to original magnet in some form or not?

Already explained in my previous post, but see below
Let us proceed with magnetizing. What happens if we take the nail we just magnetized and use it to magnetize another (identical) nail? Now we will find that that as the second nail gets more magnetic, the first nail looses magnetism. Is that because the magnetism is moved to the new nail? No, not really. It is because the magnetic force works both ways. The magnet field pulls at the molecules in the non-magnetic nail, aligning them, but you cannot just pull at one end of a string, so that pull will tend to de-align the molecules in the magnetic nail. Ideally, about as many molecules are de-aligned in nail #1 as are aligned in nail #2, so seemingly, they end up with half the magnetism each.

Why did that not happen with the permanent magnet? Because the structure in the permanent magnet is so much more rigid and the molecules are not easily changed. A permanent magnet material is difficult to cange. If you had a piece of non-magnetized neodynium, you would find it virtually impossible to magnetize.

Hans
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Old 12th October 2004, 04:53 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Thanks. Rest is ok but can you explain 'this outside energy cycle' in detail. (sorry, if I am asking to repeat)
Yes, you are asking me to repeat. What is it you don't understand? We are either creating a magent field using electrical energy, or we are moving another magnet field near the nail, using physical energy. Some of that energy goes into aligning the molecules in the nail. It is quite simple. In all cases it is a very small amount of energy, not something you can feel, but you can measure it with appropriate instruments.

Hans
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Old 12th October 2004, 05:05 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Yes, you are asking me to repeat. What is it you don't understand? We are either creating a magent field using electrical energy, or we are moving another magnet field near the nail, using physical energy. Some of that energy goes into aligning the molecules in the nail. It is quite simple. In all cases it is a very small amount of energy, not something you can feel, but you can measure it with appropriate instruments.

Hans
"Some of that energy goes into aligning the molecules in the nail."

What is the problem then in accepting that some of our applied mechnical kinetic energy is converted/invested into aligning the molecules(sorry, but are these molecules?) of nail/iron & thus stored as P.E. there?

I am trying to understand your previous post. I have small question:-

Does the overall magnetic effect by 'say' one magnet of 1Kg & 1000 magnets of one gram each but seprate is effected or not?
I mean whether density effects overall magnetic effect?
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Old 12th October 2004, 05:20 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
"Some of that energy goes into aligning the molecules in the nail."

What is the problem then in accepting that some of our applied mechnical kinetic energy is converted/invested into aligning the molecules(sorry, but are these molecules?) of nail/iron & thus stored as P.E. there?
Suddenly, inexplicably, pronouns and other finer grammatical points enter into Kumar's English. An Angel surely descended from the heavens!
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Old 12th October 2004, 05:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
"Some of that energy goes into aligning the molecules in the nail."

What is the problem then in accepting that some of our applied mechnical kinetic energy is converted/invested into aligning the molecules(sorry, but are these molecules?) of nail/iron & thus stored as P.E. there?
Molecules or atoms, depending on the composition of the material, but it doesn't matter.

There is no problem accepting it. It IS stored as potential energy (although, in this case, recovering it will be difficult, but that is unimportant). Basically, energy can only exist as flowing or potential energy, but the two are interchangeable and conversion between them is relatively simple.

Actually, energy can also be bound as matter, but the matter<>energy conversion is not simple to make.

Hans
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Old 12th October 2004, 05:23 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by BillHoyt
Suddenly, inexplicably, pronouns and other finer grammatical points enter into Kumar's English. An Angel surely descended from the heavens!
Yeah, that "angel" flies by occasionally. Interestingly, the more eager and interested Kumar becomes, the better his English, whereas when he needs to shy away from arguments, he becomes almost incomprehensible. Go figure .

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Old 12th October 2004, 07:47 AM   #100
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[quote]Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Molecules or atoms, depending on the composition of the material, but it doesn't matter.

Yes, some alloyes are also used--so molecular forms should be be of importance. However, I previously read something about electrons, pairs alignment. Sorry I don't remember properly.

There is no problem accepting it. It IS stored as potential energy (although, in this case, recovering it will be difficult, but that is unimportant). Basically, energy can only exist as flowing or potential energy, but the two are interchangeable and conversion between them is relatively simple.

Mr.Hans, it may go against me but truely bow I am thinking that this applied energy by us & by orgional magnet--may either lost as heat or stored in us or in origional magnet for our/magnet potential to reverse those works done as P.E.grav.=mgh or P.E.=weight X height do not include work done by us. Logically, when we lift a stone & keep it to some height--obiously we get some PE to lift it from height & keep that down.

Actually, energy can also be bound as matter, but the matter<>energy conversion is not simple to make.

What are photons produced--are these conversion of matter or otherwise?
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Old 12th October 2004, 10:03 AM   #101
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[quote]Originally posted by Kumar
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Mr.Hans, it may go against me but truely bow I am thinking that this applied energy by us & by orgional magnet--may either lost as heat or stored in us or in origional magnet for our/magnet potential to reverse those works done as P.E.grav.=mgh or P.E.=weight X height do not include work done by us.
Let's play the game and take you seriously for a moment.

Let's also cut to the chase. You are interested in these things because you want to explain a homeopathic effect. Never mind for the moment that such a thing does not exist, all you are groping for here is mechanisms of energy transfer from one system to another. No one is denying that energy can be transferred from one system to another, but that energy obeys the rules of thermodynamics. What homeopathy requires is for information to pass in a coherent manner through all the processing stages, and indeed be amplifed, or "potentised". Unfortunately, what actually happens is that homepathic processing increases entropy. Whatever coherent structure was present in the remedy source is lost during the processing.

While you are struggling through the foothills of this argument, please understand that there is no pass through these mountains to your homeopathic Shangri-La. You are lost. Why not trust the guides just for once when they try to show you the way.
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Old 12th October 2004, 09:49 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
No one is denying that energy can be transferred from one system to another, but that energy obeys the rules of thermodynamics. What homeopathy requires is for information to pass in a coherent manner through all the processing stages, and indeed be amplifed, or "potentised". Unfortunately, what actually happens is that homepathic processing increases entropy. Whatever coherent structure was present in the remedy source is lost during the processing.

As one magnet can make several magnets being iron piecec as its carriers, why similar thing can't happen in homeopathic potentisation. We have origional magnet as raw remedy substance, we have iron as carriers water,alcohol or lactose. We have mechnical energy of rubbing,keeping as succusing, triturating. What is lacking?

My two questions are not yet awnsered:-

1. Does the overall magnetic effect by 'say' one magnet of 1Kg & 1000 magnets of one gram each but seprate is effected or not?
I mean whether density effects overall magnetic effect?

2. Whether applied energy by us or by origional magnet in keeping & rubbing is lost some as heat & balance reverse back to us or to magnet & stored there to be utilized for reversing magnetism in iron--but not actually invested/transfered into iron piece as per example of P.E. formulas?
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Old 12th October 2004, 10:50 PM   #103
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[quote]Originally posted by Kumar
Quote:
Yes, some alloyes are also used--so molecular forms should be be of importance. However, I previously read something about electrons, pairs alignment. Sorry I don't remember properly.

Ahh, you don't remember, so it is easier to ask again than to find out. Well, don't be such a lazy student, find out for yourself.

Mr.Hans, it may go against me but truely bow I am thinking that this applied energy by us & by orgional magnet--may either lost as heat or stored in us or in origional magnet for our/magnet potential to reverse those works done as P.E.grav.=mgh or P.E.=weight X height do not include work done by us. Logically, when we lift a stone & keep it to some height--obiously we get some PE to lift it from height & keep that down.

I suggest you read a book on energy and energy conversion. It is a very thoroughly explored science.


What are photons produced--are these conversion of matter or otherwise?

They are a part of energy conversion.
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Old 12th October 2004, 11:15 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
As one magnet can make several magnets being iron piecec as its carriers, why similar thing can't happen in homeopathic potentisation.

Because magnetism is not a general thing, it is special to magnetic materials. Many materials are affected by magnetic fields in various ways, but only a few materials have the ability to retain a magnetic field. Water, alcohol, or lactose are not among these materials.

We have origional magnet as raw remedy substance, we have iron as carriers water,alcohol or lactose. We have mechnical energy of rubbing,keeping as succusing, triturating. What is lacking?

Knowledge of simple physics is lacking on your part.

Now, let's cut this short: Homopathic remedies are not PHYSICALLY different from blank medium. Ask any homeopath, and they will have to tell you that THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL A REMEDY FROM A NON-REMEDY. Try to get this, Kumar. You are looking for something that not even proponents of homeopathy claim exists.


My two questions are not yet awnsered:-

Kumar, your questions have been answered repeatedly, you just don't like the answers.

1. Does the overall magnetic effect by 'say' one magnet of 1Kg & 1000 magnets of one gram each but seprate is effected or not?
I mean whether density effects overall magnetic effect?

Magnetism has no connection to the mass of a magent. I already told you: The magnetism is inside the material all the time, it is just aligned in a magnet.

2. Whether applied energy by us or by origional magnet in keeping & rubbing is lost some as heat & balance reverse back to us or to magnet & stored there to be utilized for reversing magnetism in iron--but not actually invested/transfered into iron piece as per example of P.E. formulas?

No it is stored as potential energy in the ordered magnet field. If you could cause the magnet field to spontaneously collapse, you could collect the energy in an induction coil.
Mmmm, perhaps I can explain this in a way you can understand and experiment with:

Go down to your local hardware store (or toy store) and buy two rod magnets. You need some nails, too.

Now, let's pretend that these magnets are molecules in a piece of iron. Put them together side by side, poles opposite, that is the north (probably painted blue) of one magnet beside south (probably painted red) of the other, and vice versa. You will notice the magnets stick together nicely.

Now try to see how many nails this combined magnet can lift. You will find that it is quite weak because the magnets are in opposite direction, they are NOT ALIGNED.

Now, grab the magnets and turn them to align them north to north and south to south. You will notice a marked resistance as you try to bring identical poles close. If they are good magnets, you may even find that they will not stick together at all because they repell each other. If that is the case, use a bit of adhesive tape to hold them together. You just invested some energy in ALIGNING the magnets.

Now try with nails and you will find that the aligned magents are much stronger than before.

Finally, yurn them back to unaligned position again (if necessary, remove the tape). You will feel this is a "downhill" motion, like releasing a spring. You have recovered the potenrial energy.

If this does not explain it to you, I'm afraid I have to give up.

Hans
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Old 13th October 2004, 07:37 AM   #105
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Mr.Hans,

Thanks for detailed explaination. I think all these belong to magnetic domains.

Quote:
Magnetic Domains
1. Magnetic moments in neighboring atoms are held parallel by quantum mechanical forces.

2. These atoms with these magnetic characteristics are grouped into regions called domains. Each domain has its own North pole and South pole.
A Domain is the smallest known permanent magnet. About 6000 domains would occupy an area the size of the head of a common pin. A domain is composed of approximately one quadrillion (1,000,000,000,000,000 or 1015) atoms.

3. In unmagnetized ferromagnetic materials, the domains are randomly oriented and neutralize each other or cancel each other out. However, the magnetic fields are still present within the domains.
http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magwhy.htm
In this respect i just want to clear:-

Are some type of Domains/atoms also present in other than ferromagnetic materials & if yes, those domains are also randomly oriented and neutralize each other or cancel each other out. However, the magnetic fields are still present within the domains but they can't be aligned due to their non-magnetic properties?

When you join two magnets with same poles of both on one side, does their magnetic field just double proportionately or not?

Quote:
my Q2. Whether applied energy by us or by origional magnet in keeping & rubbing is lost some as heat & balance reverse back to us or to magnet & stored there to be utilized for reversing magnetism in iron--but not actually invested/transfered into iron piece as per example of P.E. formulas?

Your A. No it is stored as potential energy in the ordered magnet field. If you could cause the magnet field to spontaneously collapse, you could collect the energy in an induction coil.
Suppose, we rub other than ferromagnetic materials--what will happen to our applied KE on rubbing?
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Old 13th October 2004, 07:50 AM   #106
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Originally posted by Kumar
Suppose, we rub other than ferromagnetic materials--what will happen to our applied KE on rubbing?
Conservation of energy can't help you here Kumar, this is not a closed system in that respect.

You've also got to find a way to relate 'energy' to homeopathy. We know magnets don't do much, so incredibly small weak ones aren't going to do anything.

It's all the wrong way around Kumar. Homeopathy doesn't work, there is no way to distinguish between those who've had it and those who haven't. You might very well be looking for theories to prove why it is pigs can fly.
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Old 13th October 2004, 08:06 AM   #107
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Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Unfortunately, what actually happens is that homepathic processing increases entropy. Whatever coherent structure was present in the remedy source is lost during the processing.
[Exaggeratedpatience]Kumar, Kumar, Kumar, Kumar. You are still confusing energy transmission with information transmission.[/patiencelost]

Let's take an example.

I have a baseball bat. I tap you lightly, but repeatedly on the side of the head. Have you gained information? Is the inside of your head more baseball-bat-like? Does your brain contain more essence of baseball bat or is its fine structure even more damaged than previously?

This is entropy. Energy has been transmitted to your head, but no information has passed from baseball bat to brain.
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Old 13th October 2004, 08:21 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Mr.Hans,

Thanks for detailed explaination. I think all these belong to magnetic domains.

In this respect i just want to clear:-

Are some type of Domains/atoms also present in other than ferromagnetic materials & if yes, those domains are also randomly oriented and neutralize each other or cancel each other out. However, the magnetic fields are still present within the domains but they can't be aligned due to their non-magnetic properties?
No, there are no types of "domains" to be aligned in non-ferromagnetic materials. If there were domains, the material would be, by definition, ferromagnetic.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Suppose, we rub other than ferromagnetic materials--what will happen to our applied KE on rubbing?
Even though I'm sure someone has already said it before...

If you rub two objects together, applied kinetic energy is dissipated as heat lost through friction. Friction is ALWAYS dissipative. "Information" is not stored or radiated, it is lost as heat.
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Old 13th October 2004, 10:47 AM   #109
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[quote]Originally posted by Mongpoovian
No, there are no types of "domains" to be aligned in non-ferromagnetic materials. If there were domains, the material would be, by definition, ferromagnetic.

Now let us consider atoms or molecules of any non-magnetic material. Suppose if any material is seprated in its molecules/ atoms--will then also, these seprated molecules/ atoms not hold any magnetic field?

If you rub two objects together, applied kinetic energy is dissipated as heat lost through friction. Friction is ALWAYS dissipative. "Information" is not stored or radiated, it is lost as heat.

Will it be 100% loss of our applied KE lost as heat? I assume some KE is invested in seprating those two materials as PE(as you gring any material into smaller particles) & some heat energy would have effected the molecules of two materials, which got converted in some new form effected by heat thus produced on rubbing.
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Old 13th October 2004, 11:01 AM   #110
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Benjuin, BSM,

Some changes should be there on triturating, succussing--whenther it is entropy, photon effect, PE storing or otherwise.
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Old 13th October 2004, 11:32 AM   #111
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Originally posted by Kumar
Benjuin, BSM,

Some changes should be there on triturating, succussing--whenther it is entropy, photon effect, PE storing or otherwise.
Which part of 'No' didn't you understand?
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Old 13th October 2004, 12:21 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Some changes should be there on triturating, succussing--whenther it is entropy, photon effect, PE storing or otherwise.
If you shake a bottle of water, it will get very slightly warmer. That's a change.

If you shake a bottle of water in which some substance was once dissolved but which has been diluted so much that only water remains, it will get very slightly warmer. That's a change.

But they're the same change.

Why do you think that preparing a homeopathic remedy produces a different result than shaking a bottle of water? In what way do you think the two bottles differ?

It's easy to tell whether a piece of iron has been magnetized: see if it sticks to your refrigerator. How would you go about determining whether a bottle of water is just a bottle of water or whether it is a homeopathic preparation? If you can't tell them apart, maybe it's because they're identical.
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Old 13th October 2004, 01:08 PM   #113
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Quote:
Suppose, we rub other than ferromagnetic materials--what will happen to our applied KE on rubbing?
Suppose you rub two brain cells together, you might just kick start it into comprehension?
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Old 13th October 2004, 01:28 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Some changes should be there on triturating, succussing--whenther it is entropy, photon effect, PE storing or otherwise.
If you think homeopathy might work, then yes, you would reasonably expect some physical difference in a properly prepared remedy. But in fact, no such difference can be detected. What does that tell you about homeopathy?

Well, nothing, in YOUR case, but it tells the rest of us an awful lot.
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Old 13th October 2004, 08:02 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by 69dodge

Why do you think that preparing a homeopathic remedy produces a different result than shaking a bottle of water? In what way do you think the two bottles differ?

Water don't show effect whereas homeopathic remedies shows effect. Reg: scientific testing, It is to be improved to test these remedies. I am only trying to find any technical possibility for the same.
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Old 13th October 2004, 08:06 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Water don't show effect whereas homeopathic remedies shows effect.
No they do not

Quote:
Reg: scientific testing, It is to be improved to test these remedies.
Science generaly tries to avoide producing wrong results

Quote:
I am only trying to find any technical possibility for the same. [/b]
Show there is an effect and we might care.
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Old 13th October 2004, 08:40 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by geni
No they do not



Science generaly tries to avoide producing wrong results



Show there is an effect and we might care.
It is bit 'not yet known aspect'. You may go on awnsering my questions indefinitely, I may sometimes show the seed reasoning? Then, you can carry over.
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Old 13th October 2004, 11:54 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Water don't show effect whereas homeopathic remedies shows effect.

No they do not. People BELIEVE they have effect, but nobody has been able to SHOW effect.

Reg: scientific testing, It is to be improved to test these remedies.

I am only trying to find any technical possibility for the same.

And you are consistently failing.
Kumar, let's step back for a while for some general logic:

You are asking a lot of questions. Since you seem to believe the answers, you must somehow trust our authority and knowledge on these subjects. Since we build that knowledge on the established scientific knowledge, you implicitly trust that, too.

How come you will not accept the conclusions? Why do you think you can make better conclusions than us when you do not even understand the premises?

(Yes I know: It is long time and widely recognized, so it must be true................... Why do I bother at all? )

Hans
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Old 14th October 2004, 12:49 AM   #119
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Mr.Hans,

This has been discussed several time & cleared by me repeatedly. So no point to discuss it again.

My latest questions are:-

Q1. Now let us consider atoms or molecules of any non-magnetic material. Suppose if any material is seprated in its molecules/ atoms--will then also, these seprated molecules/ atoms not hold any magnetic field?

Q2. Will it be 100% loss of our applied KE lost as heat? I assume some KE is invested in seprating those two materials as PE(as you gring any material into smaller particles) & some heat energy would have effected the molecules of two materials, which got converted in some new form effected by heat thus produced on rubbing.

Q3. How then, following effects works on non magnetic materials:-


Piezoelectricity Effect is the ability of certain crystals to produce a voltage when subjected to mechanical stress.

Pyroelectricity Effect is the electrical potential created in certain materials when they are heated.

Magnetocaloric Effect:Some magnetic materials heat up when they are placed in a magnetic field and cool down when they are removed from a magnetic field. This effect was discovered by E. Warburg in 1881 in pure iron. The size of the effect has been around .5 to 2°C per Tesla change in magnetic field. One Tesla is about 20,000 times the earth's magnetic field.

Recently, alloys of gadolinium, germanium and silicon have produces a much larger effect size of 3 to 4°C per Tesla change. The general equation for this material is; Gd_5(Si_xGe_1-x)_4, where x=0.5.

Entropy: a thermodynamic quantity representing the amount of energy in a system that is no longer available for doing mechanical work; "entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity".A thermodynamic state or property that measures the degree of disorder or randomness of a system.

Internal Energy
Internal energy is defined as the energy associated with the random, disordered motion of molecules. It is separated in scale from the macroscopic ordered energy associated with moving objects; it refers to the invisible microscopic energy on the atomic and molecular scale.
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Old 14th October 2004, 02:17 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumar
Mr.Hans,

This has been discussed several time & cleared by me repeatedly. So no point to discuss it again.

So, since all your questions below have also been discussed and cleared several times, there is also no need to discuss them again?

My latest questions are:-

Q1. Now let us consider atoms or molecules of any non-magnetic material. Suppose if any material is seprated in its molecules/ atoms--will then also, these seprated molecules/ atoms not hold any magnetic field?

Correct, they will not.

Q2. Will it be 100% loss of our applied KE lost as heat? I assume some KE is invested in seprating those two materials as PE(as you gring any material into smaller particles) & some heat energy would have effected the molecules of two materials, which got converted in some new form effected by heat thus produced on rubbing.

No, some of it can be lost as sound, air movement, and possible other kinds of losses. Yes, there could be some potential energy hidden away in stickyness of some materials. Yes, some temperature sensitive compounds might be chemically changed.

Q3. How then, following effects works on non magnetic materials:-

Piezoelectricity Effect is the ability of certain crystals to produce a voltage when subjected to mechanical stress.

Seems you already found your answer. What is it you want to know?

Pyroelectricity Effect is the electrical potential created in certain materials when they are heated.

Yes, and the effect can be reversible, such that an electrical current causes a temperature change (thermocouple effect).

Magnetocaloric Effect:Some magnetic materials heat up when they are placed in a magnetic field and cool down when they are removed from a magnetic field. This effect was discovered by E. Warburg in 1881 in pure iron. The size of the effect has been around .5 to 2°C per Tesla change in magnetic field. One Tesla is about 20,000 times the earth's magnetic field.

Recently, alloys of gadolinium, germanium and silicon have produces a much larger effect size of 3 to 4°C per Tesla change. The general equation for this material is; Gd_5(Si_xGe_1-x)_4, where x=0.5.

Nice cut and paste. And? Your question is?

Entropy: a thermodynamic quantity representing the amount of energy in a system that is no longer available for doing mechanical work; "entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity".A thermodynamic state or property that measures the degree of disorder or randomness of a system.

No need to cut and paste all this. WE already know all that.
It's like a small child in a toy-store: I want that! --and that! --and that! .............

Kumar, what you are doing, in fact, what you have been doing all the time, only it has become rather desperate lately, is what we call "grasping at straws".

There is NO scientific way to explain hoemopathy. Better people than you have tried to find it and failed. You have failed, too. Deal with it.

Hans
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