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Old 15th November 2019, 05:59 PM   #681
Sol88
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
ionized gas and plasma is not the same thing, please explain

Why would you bother bringing this up again?
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Old 15th November 2019, 06:03 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
you still have not defined what you (and your EC friends) mean with "massive" electric currents, and how they show up in the data.
(not that I expect any sensible answer)
Just like this... Voyager 2 surprise the mainstream plasma ignoramus, again.

This was also noted in your tail excursion paper, A Tail Like No Other.

Rotating magnetic field = Birkeland current.

Also for you jean tate.
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Old 15th November 2019, 07:44 PM   #683
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just like this... Voyager 2 surprise the mainstream plasma ignoramus, again.

This was also noted in your tail excursion paper, A Tail Like No Other.

Rotating magnetic field = Birkeland current.

Also for you jean tate.
Strange how the plasma physics-free zone of the EU is always trying to discuss a subject that they have no understanding of! What has anything happening down the tail (that we've known about for decades) got to do with your inability to describe what is happening on the nucleus? Remember - no magnetic field in the diamagnetic cavity; no magnetic field detected by Philae on its way down to the comet, and on the surface, even before the DC had formed. No magnetic field = no current woo.
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Old 15th November 2019, 08:25 PM   #684
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Let's have a little history lesson, just to show how ignorant and/or deceptive the principals of the EC woo really are.
The year is 1985. NASA's Kuiper Airborne Observatory (a Lockheed C141A with an IR telescope aboard) can get above the vast majority of the telluric H2O, and can therefore observe said molecule in astronomical objects of interest. One of the objects it looked at that year, was comet Halley. And it made the first definitive detection of H2O at a comet. Everybody expected it to be there, but it was impossible to detect from the ground, due to the water vapour in the Earth's atmosphere, as mentioned.
So, they write up a paper on this, which is published in early 1986, the same year that an armada of spacecraft are due to encounter Halley at close quarters. Two of those spacecraft, Giotto and Vega 1, detect the water that we already knew was there. In the case of Vega it was the neutral molecule, and for Giotto (iirc) it was H2O+.
In the years following these definitive detections, numerous others were made, many from the Odin satellite, in the microwave band. Others were made from the ground, as we then had the capability of detecting so-called water hot-bands, which could be isolated from the telluric bands, by telescopes such as NIRSPEC.
So, by the year 2006 we had a nice little catalogue of definitive detections of water at comets. A couple of dozen, in fact. This was the same year that the high priests of the EU wrote a joke poster for an engineering conference, in which they claimed that scientists were only detecting OH, and that could be explained by electric discharge woo throwing up non-existent O- ions from non-existent rock, which obligingly combined with H+ from the solar wind at 400 km/s! Of course, nobody remotely scientifically literate took such nonsense seriously. Most people would have been totally unaware of said poster, and its orchestrated litany of lies and obfuscation. However, a loyal band of equally deluded and bewildered Velikovskians did take the high priests at their word, and some even believe it to this day! Probably fewer people than believe the Earth is flat, or hollow, but believe it they do! No amount of evidence against their belief system will sway them from the path of ignorance they have worn for themselves. Nor the total lack of science and evidence in favour of their strange beliefs. What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is a clash of science versus wilful ignorance. And there is only ever going to be one winner in that scenario.
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Last edited by jonesdave116; 15th November 2019 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 16th November 2019, 07:56 AM   #685
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Nice confabulation sir.

Reality checks running off on you.
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Old 16th November 2019, 08:05 AM   #686
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Those pesky electric currents are supporting those pesky electric fields.

Diamagnetic cavity is an electric field.

Doing all that pesky electric field stuff.
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Old 16th November 2019, 08:23 AM   #687
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just like this... Voyager 2 surprise the mainstream plasma ignoramus, again.

This was also noted in your tail excursion paper, A Tail Like No Other.

Rotating magnetic field = Birkeland current.

Also for you jean tate.
Thanks Sol88.

If I may, I'd like to quote you, in full, from less than a week ago (I added bold):

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You seem, like others, that I’m here in this thread to “prove” the electric comet.

As as I know, mainstream can’t even prove the dirtyicysnowymuddball model, using real proper science, maths and all.

So....

I’m patient.

Mathematics, that’s your proof?
Critiquing stuff you read, from the perspective of what you understand plasma physics to be, is all well and good.

However, this thread is devoted to "The Electric Comet Theory/SAFIRE".

If you are unwilling or unable to discuss the key objectives of this thread, why are you posting here?

Lesser importance: I think you would be the first to admit that you do not understand plasma physics beyond a very superficial, non-quantitative level. If so, what then is the point you are trying to make with posts like these?
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Old 16th November 2019, 01:29 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Why would you bother bringing this up again?
to shiw people that you don't kniw the difference between an ionized gas and a plasma
or just to annoy you
or because you keep on bringing up the same stupid stuff time and again with many a false dichotomy
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Old 16th November 2019, 01:31 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just like this... Voyager 2 surprise the mainstream plasma ignoramus, again.

This was also noted in your tail excursion paper, A Tail Like No Other.

Rotating magnetic field = Birkeland current.

Also for you jean tate.
you still did not read my paper correctly did you?
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Old 16th November 2019, 01:48 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
to shiw people that you don't kniw the difference between an ionized gas and a plasma
or just to annoy you
or because you keep on bringing up the same stupid stuff time and again with many a false dichotomy

Little side joke, ‘ol mate.

The sun would collapse into a white dwarf in an electric Sun, according to reality check.

Jd116, reckons it’s the same approximation to use gas laws for the sun, hence tremendous temperatures required for fusion at achieved.

Me on the other hand have been BANGING on about PLASMA PLASMA PLASMA....

for instance and with your “Birkeland currents closing thru the head”

This should then not be a mystery.

Quote:
This study also leaves some unanswered questions.

Among these are: We see enhanced ion fluxes up to several hundred eV as reported by Stenberg Wieser et al. (2017) coinciding with the density and magnetic field pulses. The acceleration mechanism is unclear. The electron temperature in the pulses needs to be investigated as Eriksson et al. (2017) shows only one example. We saw an indication in Section 3.3.2 that the temperature is different. Another issue to resolve is if there are distinct types of pulses. The detailed examples were taken around perihelion suggesting only one kind of pulses. This can however be different at other times. Stenberg Wieser et al. (2017) found 5 different types of short lived ion flux enhancements. These types could reflect in types of density structures, for example with or without cold electrons reported by Eriksson et al. (2017). Hajra et al. (2018) found that some pulses propagate inside the diamagnetic cavity.
Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

So why not use these on a 100% plasma Sun?
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Old 16th November 2019, 03:20 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Those pesky electric currents are supporting those pesky electric fields.

Diamagnetic cavity is an electric field.

Doing all that pesky electric field stuff.
Utter gibberish! How the hell can an area of space with no magnetic field be an electric field? Do you realise what an idiotic thing that is to say? And how stupid it makes you look? I don't suppose you do. Which is why you were conned by this idiocy. You are out of your depth. Give up. Science really isn't your thing.
Diamagnetic cavity = electric field! Lol. Deary me.
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Old 16th November 2019, 03:21 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Little side joke, ‘ol mate.

The sun would collapse into a white dwarf in an electric Sun, according to reality check.

Jd116, reckons it’s the same approximation to use gas laws for the sun, hence tremendous temperatures required for fusion at achieved.

Me on the other hand have been BANGING on about PLASMA PLASMA PLASMA....

for instance and with your “Birkeland currents closing thru the head”

This should then not be a mystery.



Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

So why not use these on a 100% plasma Sun?
Give up. You haven't got a clue.
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Old 16th November 2019, 03:26 PM   #693
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Quote:
Me on the other hand have been BANGING on about PLASMA PLASMA PLASMA....
A subject in which you are completely clueless. As a real plasma physicist has told you enough times. Maybe you should start taking notice.
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Old 16th November 2019, 03:48 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Little side joke, ‘ol mate.

The sun would collapse into a white dwarf in an electric Sun, according to reality check.

Jd116, reckons it’s the same approximation to use gas laws for the sun, hence tremendous temperatures required for fusion at achieved.

Me on the other hand have been BANGING on about PLASMA PLASMA PLASMA....
Yes, we know.

Quote:
for instance and with your “Birkeland currents closing thru the head”

This should then not be a mystery.
Perhaps.

But unless you spell out - in quantitative detail - what you mean, how can anyone tell?

Quote:
Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

So why not use these on a 100% plasma Sun?
Indeed, why not?

When may we expect to see a paper from you, in which you apply your ideas appropriately?

Otherwise, this post of yours has zero scientific value, wouldn't you say?
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:31 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Me on the other hand have been BANGING on about PLASMA PLASMA PLASMA....

for instance and with your “Birkeland currents closing thru the head”
through the head of the Sun ?

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
This should then not be a mystery.
Well, it's a mystery for me, explain please, the head of the Sun.
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Old 17th November 2019, 01:26 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
through the head of the Sun ?



Well, it's a mystery for me, explain please, the head of the Sun.

No.

Thru the head of the comet.

Quote:
The interest in these tail currents was because of the observed strong CO+ features and their temporal behaviour close to the nucleus of several comets [e.g., Wurm, 1961, see also the birghtness variations discussed in Sect. 3]. It was posited that such currents would have to close through the “head” of the comet, and thereby could be an extra source for ionization in the coma.
Further

Quote:
This leads to t nT. They realize that this folding leads to two regions with oppositely directed field, similar to the Earth’s magnetotail, and thus that there needs to be a cross-tail current through Amp`ere’s law (Eq. (1)), with t 8 A for a tail length of t 6 km. Ip [1979] assumes that (part) of this current can suddenly be channeled through the cometary atmosphere, in a similar way to what happens in the Earth’s tail during a substorm [Bostr¨om, 1974]. This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
Currents in Cometary Comae Martin Volwerk

Something about Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

And

Quote:
4.3 Concluding remarks We have shown that the localized density enhancements reported by Eriksson et al. (2017) are common around comet 67P. Furthermore they coincide with enhancement in magnetic field and ion flux. These characteristics and their distribution in space are at least qualitatively similar to filaments emanating from the diamagnetic cavity in the hybrid simulations by Koenders et al. (2015).
Think people think or at least “talk” to each other...
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Old 17th November 2019, 01:28 PM   #697
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
you still did not read my paper correctly did you?

Clock angle is rotating. This is the Birkeland currents that comprise the tail of a comet.

Quite “a bit” of current as well...
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Old 17th November 2019, 01:41 PM   #698
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Basically, a “jet” is a short circuit in the above interaction.


Double layers shorting... Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 03... maybe

Quote:
ThemeasurementsofJuly03providereasonably robust evidence that the event was driven by a process more vigorous than the free sublimation of ice and that some form of energy stored in the subsurface must have supported direct solar irradiation in accelerating dust. We have discussed two possible forms of such energy storage (a pressurized cavity and near-surface amorphous ice), but the viability of these propositions will have to be tested by future in-depth thermal models and comparison to a larger data set.
Do you mob even talk to each other? More vigorous than even super volatiles, like CO?

Quote:
Conclusions. In the framework of the presented model, which can be considered common in terms of assumptions and physical parameters in the cometary community, the dust removal by a gas drag force is not a plausible physical mechanism. The sublimation of not only water ice, but also of super-volatile ice (i.e., CO) is unable to remove dust grains for illumination conditions corresponding to 1.3 AU. Awayoutof this impasse requires revision of the most common model assumption employed by the cometary community.
Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Must be “dark energy”?

Or

Quote:
Quote:
This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
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Last edited by Sol88; 17th November 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 17th November 2019, 02:36 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
July 2009?

(checks)

Unholy mother of Hell! And still no progress from Sol88. His MO is essentially "here, this proves EU!" and then the sciency responses, which he ignores, and rinse and repeat.
No progress from Sol88 in over 10 years is small potatoes .

The electric comet delusion has at least 45 years without a scientific electric comet model or observations to support it!
Sol88's religious dogma on comets was started by delusions from Immanuel Velikovsky in 1946 and fantasies from his follower Ralph E. Juergens in 1972 published in Velikovsky's magazine Kronos.
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Old 17th November 2019, 02:37 PM   #700
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !
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Old 17th November 2019, 02:58 PM   #701
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Thumbs down An insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.

Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current | Space News
15 minutes of Scott's insane lies about Voyager 2. Thunderbolts cult insane obsession with physically impossible Birkeland currents anywhere they want them. Thunderbolts cult insane obsession with press releases. Thunderbolts cult insanity that any issues with mainstream supports their deranged delusions.
Scott's personal insanity:
3:14: "mindset of fluid dynamics..." so he does not know plasma is a partially ionized gas !
3:20: textbook plasma physics "words like winds, shocks, ..."
3:40: quotes an astrometry stating textbook plasma physics (plasmas form boundaries such as the ones Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 found)
4:09: A "surprised" lie - he has just quoted Voyager 1 encountering a boundary that Voyager 2 encountered.
4:16: His delusions about Birkeland currents predicting the boundary.
4:23: Double insanity about EU star formation. That is Thunderbolts cult insiatiy. The Sun is not being formed !
5:05: Scott's delusions about double layers. Scott's insanity that the heliopause is a cathode !
5:42: Insane z-pinch lies - none were observed.
5:57: Scott's irrelevant lie that electric forces are always stronger than gravity.
etc. etc.
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:00 PM   #702
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:01 PM   #703
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science, e.g. a diamagnetic cavity is a cavity in a magnetic field.
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:06 PM   #704
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about posts and posters.
Textbook physics that says Sol88's insane religious dogma makes the Sun collapse into a white dwarf. Any first year astronomy student knows that stars need an internal heat source to be stable (thermal heat balancing gravity = more weight to be supported with depth = higher temperature and pressure).
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:07 PM   #705
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:11 PM   #706
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity of thinking an abysmally ignorant believer in insane religious dogma knows more than a real plasma physicist !
A paper not mentioning the astounding, groundbreaking discovery of Birkeland currents in a comet tail, did not detect them! An author states that no Birkeland currents were detected.
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Old 17th November 2019, 03:13 PM   #707
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity of parroting Sol88's insane religious dogma about comet jet and double layers.
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Old 17th November 2019, 07:55 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Basically, a “jet” is a short circuit in the above interaction.


Double layers shorting... Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 03... maybe

Lol. Just when you thought this idiocy couldn't get more idiotic! Short circuit! Hahahahahahaha! What is the bloody spectrum of those jets? Huh? Is it electrical in nature? Is it making the magnetometer spike every time there is a jet? Even when they fly through one of the bloody things? No. It is sunlight reflected from dust, and sometimes ice. As we have known for decades. You apparently didn't. Not our fault that you are totally ignorant of cometary science. The magnetometer isn't seeing your impossible electric woo for very good reasons - it is impossible, and therefore didn't happen. It is a fairy tale you have made up. It has nothing to do with science. And neither does the electric universe. A cult, based on the clown Velikovsky's demented ravings. Now go away, and leave science to those that at least have some understanding of it. There is a kiddies play area, called the Dunderdolts forum, or some such, where you would be far more at home. Those idiots would believe anything, and know as much about science as you do. That is, a big fat collective zero.
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Old 18th November 2019, 01:16 AM   #709
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^^^^^
Yup! Thought so...

Quote:
Standard theory explains that the diamagneticcavity as due to a pressure balance between the external magnetic pressure and the internal ion-neutral drag force,which was supported by the measurements of similar ion and neutral velocity at comet 1P/Halley(Cravens et al.1987)and some Rosetta studies have used this model also for 67P(Timaret al.2017). However, other Rosetta measurements have led to questioning the applicability of this theory as the ion and neutral velocity were found to differ significantly to each other(Odelstad et al.2018). Hence, the physics of this region is still under debate. Based on an observed correlation between cavity observations and vicinity to the electron-neutral decoupling distance, Henri et al.(2017)suggested that electron-neutralcollisions were more important than ion-neutral collisions,while Timar et al.(2017)did indeed find a good correlation between the observed radial distance of the cavity to that predicted by the ion-neutral drag force model. Odelstad et al.(2018)also found that cold electrons were always present inside the diamagnetic cavity, which leads us to investigate if the appearance of the diamagnetic cavity is also dependent on the convective electric field direction.
The Convective Electric Field Influence on the Cold Plasma and Diamagnetic Cavity of Comet 67P

So jonesdave116, Rosetta measurements have led to questioning the applicability of this theory, so you have nice story but your rebuttal is worthless.

Well you'd need a current for that to happen...

Quote:
This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
Old news champ
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Old 18th November 2019, 03:12 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Clock angle is rotating. This is the Birkeland currents that comprise the tail of a comet.

Quite “a bit” of current as well...
If it is a travelling wave down the tail, then it cannot be cause by a current. Please explain.
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Old 18th November 2019, 03:14 AM   #711
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
No.

Thru the head of the comet.



Further

Currents in Cometary Comae Martin Volwerk

Something about Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

And



Think people think or at least “talk” to each other...
Yeah, comparing apples and chickens works very well, Sol.
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:27 AM   #712
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Basically, a “jet” is a short circuit in the above interaction.


Double layers shorting... Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 03... maybe



Do you mob even talk to each other? More vigorous than even super volatiles, like CO?

Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Must be “dark energy”?

Or
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
If it is a travelling wave down the tail, then it cannot be cause by a current. Please explain.

Would you entertain this fool and give me a back of the napkin OOM for the A in the length of this curcuit, as per
Quote:
This leads to t nT. They realize that this folding leads to two regions with oppositely directed field, similar to the Earth’s magnetotail, and thus that there needs to be a cross-tail current through Amp`ere’s law (Eq. (1)), with 108 A for a tail length of 106 km. Ip [1979] assumes that (part) of this current can suddenly be channeled through the cometary atmosphere, in a similar way to what happens in the Earth’s tail during a substorm [Bostr¨om, 1974]. This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
With a tail a minimum length 4.8 x 108km?

Quote:
The upper and lower part of the cometary tail in Fig. 3BB have oppositely directed magnetic field and are by necessity separated by a cross tail current sheet. The cross tail current is carried by the cold picked-up plasma. As in the Earth’s magnetotail the cross tail current closes through the magnetopause currents [see e.g., Stern, 1994].
What about electrons? The current carriers. The ones with the magnetic field NOT frozen in? The ones the new papers use this kenetic theory? Would that change anything in your paper?



Quote:
This means that the induced magnetosphere around a comet consists of a complex geometry of magnetic fields, as if a large amount of different kinds of curtains have been draped around the nucleus. One of the consequences of these rotations of the magnetic field is that there will be current sheets generated in the coma.
Currents in Cometary Comae



Sounds very Don Scott’s mathamatical description of a Birkeland Current to me.
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Last edited by Sol88; 18th November 2019 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:32 AM   #713
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Oh and is not
Quote:
This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
a good description of an electric current doing “work”?

Seems to be jammed up with cold dense electrons down there on the nucleus, except for them suprathermal electrons...
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:55 AM   #714
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
^^^^^
Yup! Thought so...

The Convective Electric Field Influence on the Cold Plasma and Diamagnetic Cavity of Comet 67P

So jonesdave116, Rosetta measurements have led to questioning the applicability of this theory, so you have nice story but your rebuttal is worthless.

Well you'd need a current for that to happen...



Old news champ
More idiotic gibberish. It doesn't matter what causes the cavity. Its existence completely screws up your unscientific woo. There is no magnetic field within it. Therefore there is no electric woo within it. End of story. And you still don't have a model. Any chance that is going to change after a decade and a half of word salad and gibberish? Though not.
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:58 AM   #715
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Would you entertain this fool and give me a back of the napkin OOM for the A in the length of this curcuit, as per

With a tail a minimum length 4.8 x 108km?



What about electrons? The current carriers. The ones with the magnetic field NOT frozen in? The ones the new papers use this kenetic theory? Would that change anything in your paper?



Currents in Cometary Comae



Sounds very Don Scott’s mathamatical description of a Birkeland Current to me.
Don Scott! Hahahahaha! A clown. Give up with this crap, already. None of the things you are talking about can happen without outgassing. And you cannot explain outgassing. Fail. Now go away and learn some science.
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Old 18th November 2019, 05:27 AM   #716
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Just a reminder of the basics of the unscientific gibberish being spammed on here by Sol;

Comets are blocks of rock blasted off of planets by impossible electric lightning bolts, caused by planets that were zooming around the solar system a few thousand years ago, getting close to other planets.

The coma is a glow discharge. Despite decades of us knowing that it isn't.

Jets are electric discharges (lol). Despite us knowing for decades that they aren't.

The invisible, impossible electric woo is caused by the comet having an elliptical orbit through a radial electric field. Despite us knowing for decades that the field isn't there, and asteroids on similar orbits not turning into comets.

And that is the basics. And Sol cannot, or will not, deal with it. How does that fit in with my claim that all we have here is a bunch of pseudoscientific garbage being spammed on the forum by a quasi-religious acolyte of a demented Velikovskian cult? Very well, I'd say. Whatever this nonsense is, it has nothing to do with science, and should be relegated to the place where old threads go to die.

EDIT:

It should be added that whenever an attempt to pin Sol down to the basics, and get him to provide a scientific explanation for the total lack of evidence, science and mechanisms behind these core claims, he runs away, or goes on a Gish gallop to avoid answering the questions.
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Old 18th November 2019, 08:39 AM   #717
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Would you entertain this fool and give me a back of the napkin OOM for the A in the length of this curcuit, as per

With a tail a minimum length 4.8 x 108km?
Nope
And that is not an answer to my question to explain.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What about electrons? The current carriers. The ones with the magnetic field NOT frozen in? The ones the new papers use this kenetic theory? Would that change anything in your paper?
Nope


Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sounds very Don Scott’s mathamatical description of a Birkeland Current to me.
Nope
How can they be "Birkeland currents" when they are cross-field currents?
The stupidity, it hurts!
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Old 18th November 2019, 08:41 AM   #718
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Oh and is not a good description of an electric current doing “work”?
and so what?

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Seems to be jammed up with cold dense electrons down there on the nucleus, except for them suprathermal electrons...
This does not even make sense in the EC universe
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Old 18th November 2019, 09:12 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
How can they be "Birkeland currents" when they are cross-field currents?
The stupidity, it hurts!
But, but, but.........are you trying to say that Birkeland currents are field-aligned? Crikey.
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Old 18th November 2019, 12:46 PM   #720
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Exclamation The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual lies about posts and posters.
jonesdave116 wrote
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Lol. Just when you thought this idiocy couldn't get more idiotic! Short circuit! Hahahahahahaha! What is the bloody spectrum of those jets? Huh? Is it electrical in nature? Is it making the magnetometer spike every time there is a jet? Even when they fly through one of the bloody things? No. It is sunlight reflected from dust, and sometimes ice. As we have known for decades. You apparently didn't. Not our fault that you are totally ignorant of cometary science. The magnetometer isn't seeing your impossible electric woo for very good reasons - it is impossible, and therefore didn't happen. It is a fairy tale you have made up. It has nothing to do with science. And neither does the electric universe. A cult, based on the clown Velikovsky's demented ravings. Now go away, and leave science to those that at least have some understanding of it. There is a kiddies play area, called the Dunderdolts forum, or some such, where you would be far more at home. Those idiots would believe anything, and know as much about science as you do. That is, a big fat collective zero.
jonesdave116 is saying that Sol88 is still insanely lying about comet jets which in real life are made of dust grains, ice grains and gas. They reflect sunlight. They are dark in shadows. They do not emit the radiation of electric discharges. Thus Sol88 is still insanely lying that jets are electric discharges !

Sol88 confirms that Sol88 is insanely lying by citing a mainstream paper not about comet jets
The Convective Electric Field Influence on the Cold Plasma and Diamagnetic Cavity of Comet 67P where the diamagnetic cavity is in the comet coma.
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