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Tags donald trump , Trump supporters

View Poll Results: Which Trump supporters do you feel the least amount of sympathy for
Those who rely on Obamacare 41 46.07%
Those living near the border who may loose their homes due to the wall 14 15.73%
Those concerned about internet privacy 10 11.24%
Those with friends/relatives who were affected by immigration policies 22 24.72%
Other 37 41.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3rd May 2017, 07:55 PM   #121
Tony Stark
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I'm thinking about all the Trump voters that will lose their insurance if Trumpcare passes.

No sympathy. They can all die for all I care.
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Old 4th May 2017, 12:21 PM   #122
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The above........**** 'em all for being idiots and tools!!!!!!!!!
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Old 4th May 2017, 06:41 PM   #123
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My Granmammy taught me to be kind to dumb animals.
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Old 4th May 2017, 07:18 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
My Granmammy taught me to be kind to dumb animals.
I am - and most like me. I also am to people with mental difficulties. I am not to people who act stupidly for ignorant and/or incompetent reasons. Thus my attitude toward Trump voters - especially those fools enough to trust his words over his known actions!!!
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Old 4th May 2017, 09:11 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
My Granmammy taught me to be kind to dumb animals.
I view this as more like a drug addict - sometimes you simply have to cut them off and let them hit rock bottom. So, some of these folks are gonna learn. Quite a few will suffer, some will die. They were warned, nevertheless, they persisted.
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Old 4th May 2017, 10:21 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I view this as more like a drug addict - sometimes you simply have to cut them off and let them hit rock bottom. So, some of these folks are gonna learn. Quite a few will suffer, some will die. They were warned, nevertheless, they persisted.
I'm not an enabler. And in the case of rabid dogs, Uncle Atticus showed me what to do.
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Old 5th May 2017, 10:02 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I'm not an enabler. And in the case of rabid dogs, Uncle Atticus showed me what to do.
I'm really regretting this. I can't undo it now. I have no pity for raging, foaming at the mouth dogs who are celebrating their disease and gleefully infecting others.

But what do I do with friends who insist as a matter of "principle" that there should be no government mandated health insurance, and that Liberty demands insurers not be regulated? If I never had a fantasy myself I could think them mentally inferior to me and unworthy to participate in a democracy.

One good friend of many years, and after many discussions, still believes in the "Free Market," Trickle-down, and that the Muslims are going to take over America. I have no illusion that anything I'll ever say will shake his convictions.

But if I only associate with people of my own fantasies ....
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:25 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
But what do I do with friends who insist as a matter of "principle" that...
Counter by arguing as a matter of pragmatism. No matter how nice a principle may be, if it doesn't make the world better, it doesn't work and should be discarded for something that does.

Give them an example they'd agree with. Like Communism. Communism is a great idea, in principle. It works great on the hippie commune level. It just breaks down when people try to scale it up.

Then give them the example they don't agree with. Universal health care works. Even in countries that are poorer than us, with governments more corrupt and useless than ours, they still get healthcare better and cheaper than we do. Your friend can argue principle till they're blue in the face, they can't change that UHC works.

Regulations are great, because there's usually some really nasty abuses to point to which were indirectly responsible for the regulation.

Finally, you're not going to change their minds overnight. People don't do that. The best you can hope for is to introduce some cognitive dissonance, a little seed of doubt that "principle" is worth introducing inefficiencies and waste.

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 5th May 2017 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:38 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Counter by arguing as a matter of pragmatism. No matter how nice a principle may be, if it doesn't make the world better, it doesn't work and should be discarded for something that does.

Give them an example they'd agree with. Like Communism. Communism is a great idea, in principle. It works great on the hippie commune level. It just breaks down when people try to scale it up.

Then give them the example they don't agree with. Universal health care works. Even in countries that are poorer than us, with governments more corrupt and useless than ours, they still get healthcare better and cheaper than we do. Your friend can argue principle till they're blue in the face, they can't change that UHC works.

Regulations are great, because there's usually some really nasty abuses to point to which were indirectly responsible for the regulation.

Finally, you're not going to change their minds overnight. People don't do that. The best you can hope for is to introduce some cognitive dissonance, a little seed of doubt that "principle" is worth introducing inefficiencies and waste.
I've known this friend for decades and we've had countless discussions in which I have talked pragmatically and he from his "true" beliefs. I've seen him choose to stay in his bubble in the face of facts. He's a Mormon, btw, and I don't want to paint all Mormons with the same brush, but he knows a number of glaring problems with Mormon belief but chooses the dissonance. But he's not a bad friend. So I don't expect him to change his positions, even when he gets the shaft. He has no insurance but is proud to be "free." Yeah that's gonna hurt some day. But I'm not wishing the hurt on him.
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Old 5th May 2017, 01:47 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I've known this friend for decades and we've had countless discussions in which I have talked pragmatically and he from his "true" beliefs. I've seen him choose to stay in his bubble in the face of facts. He's a Mormon, btw, and I don't want to paint all Mormons with the same brush, but he knows a number of glaring problems with Mormon belief but chooses the dissonance. But he's not a bad friend. So I don't expect him to change his positions, even when he gets the shaft. He has no insurance but is proud to be "free." Yeah that's gonna hurt some day. But I'm not wishing the hurt on him.
Knock him down and steal his wallet. And tell him you have the freedom to do that, and, according to your principles, it's everyone for themselves.

You will see how quick his "well that's different" comes out....
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:02 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I'm not an enabler. And in the case of rabid dogs, Uncle Atticus showed me what to do.
But we can't shoot them!!!
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:36 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
But we can't shoot them!!!
No we can't, but we can give them chocolate!
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:45 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Knock him down and steal his wallet. And tell him you have the freedom to do that, and, according to your principles, it's everyone for themselves.

You will see how quick his "well that's different" comes out....
I've heard "that's different" many times. And he's a Mormon, so he believes in the public enforcement of morality.
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Old 6th May 2017, 11:49 AM   #134
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The ones I feel the most anger towards are the Libertarian/Social Darwinists who love trump because he's big on the Norquist Plan for government (shrink it 'till you can drown it in the tub). The types that will with a perfectly straight face parrot the "taxes are theft" BS and insist they have not agreed to the social contract (on a computer built by someone else, using electricity generated by public utilities, bought with money minted by government, while using streets/police/fire protection/etc provided by government, and on and on...).
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:25 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The ones I feel the most anger towards are the Libertarian/Social Darwinists who love trump because he's big on the Norquist Plan for government (shrink it 'till you can drown it in the tub). The types that will with a perfectly straight face parrot the "taxes are theft" BS and insist they have not agreed to the social contract (on a computer built by someone else, using electricity generated by public utilities, bought with money minted by government, while using streets/police/fire protection/etc provided by government, and on and on...).
Indeed, the lowest of the low, just a hair above murderous Nazi types. The kind who would idly watch an overturned turtle struggle until it died, yet are lightning quick to scream like newborns when a slight breeze from a passing human brushes them, disturbing their divine right to infinite self-absorption. Barely can admit they had mothers; how dare any being tax another body so.
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:36 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I'm thinking about all the Trump voters that will lose their insurance if Trumpcare passes.

No sympathy. They can all die for all I care.
They're still human beings, Tony. As someone with chronic disease and facing the AHCA and it's total overtuning of the existing system, I wouldn't wish my circumstances on anyone, even Republicans.

Once we open the door to the idea that it's ok to not care about some people as people for (insert reasons), it's only a matter of time until you find yourself the one no one cares about. That's one of the lessons we all need to learn from this mess.
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:45 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
They're still human beings, Tony. As someone with chronic disease and facing the AHCA and it's total overtuning of the existing system, I wouldn't wish my circumstances on anyone, even Republicans.

Once we open the door to the idea that it's ok to not care about some people as people for (insert reasons), it's only a matter of time until you find yourself the one no one cares about. That's one of the lessons we all need to learn from this mess.
Yeah, but nobody dies due to lack of healthcare.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...id=HPCOMMDHP15
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Old 6th May 2017, 01:47 PM   #138
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^That still doesn't mean we shouldn't care about them as human beings. What we do to others always comes back to us one way or the other.
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Old 6th May 2017, 03:08 PM   #139
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Sorry but I just don't give a **** if Trump kills Trumps voters. Their fault.

I save my sympathy for those that didn't vote for the most obvious conman piece of **** ever.
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Old 6th May 2017, 05:31 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Counter by arguing as a matter of pragmatism. No matter how nice a principle may be, if it doesn't make the world better, it doesn't work and should be discarded for something that does.

Give them an example they'd agree with. Like Communism. Communism is a great idea, in principle. It works great on the hippie commune level. It just breaks down when people try to scale it up.

Then give them the example they don't agree with. Universal health care works. Even in countries that are poorer than us, with governments more corrupt and useless than ours, they still get healthcare better and cheaper than we do. Your friend can argue principle till they're blue in the face, they can't change that UHC works.

Regulations are great, because there's usually some really nasty abuses to point to which were indirectly responsible for the regulation.

Finally, you're not going to change their minds overnight. People don't do that. The best you can hope for is to introduce some cognitive dissonance, a little seed of doubt that "principle" is worth introducing inefficiencies and waste.
Interesting about communism. Can't get anymore hippie commune in Cuba?

I wouldn't want anyone to die. But I find this kind of rhetoric from the left fairly common. The only thing that a leftist deserves is defeat.
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Old 6th May 2017, 06:31 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
They're still human beings, Tony. As someone with chronic disease and facing the AHCA and it's total overtuning of the existing system, I wouldn't wish my circumstances on anyone, even Republicans.

Once we open the door to the idea that it's ok to not care about some people as people for (insert reasons), it's only a matter of time until you find yourself the one no one cares about. That's one of the lessons we all need to learn from this mess.
I've had some fun with some cynical remarks, but at the end of the day I agree with this.
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Old 6th May 2017, 11:25 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Sorry but I just don't give a **** if Trump kills Trumps voters. Their fault.

I save my sympathy for those that didn't vote for the most obvious conman piece of **** ever.
If basic human morality isn't enough, consider we're going to need their support in order to get the GOPs out of office.

We got into this mess in part because liberals spent more time hating on the American mainstream than in reaching out to them.
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Old 7th May 2017, 12:10 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I wouldn't want anyone to die.
So you must be for universal healthcare, free education, social safety nets and progressive taxes, right?

How many US deaths are caused by poverty and other social factors? About the same as deaths from heart attacks and stroke
Quote:
The investigators found that approximately 245,000 deaths in the United States in the year 2000 were attributable to low levels of education, 176,000 to racial segregation, 162,000 to low social support, 133,000 to individual-level poverty, 119,000 to income inequality, and 39,000 to area-level poverty.

Overall, 4.5% of U.S. deaths were found to be attributable to poverty
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Old 7th May 2017, 07:33 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
If basic human morality isn't enough, consider we're going to need their support in order to get the GOPs out of office.

We got into this mess in part because liberals spent more time hating on the American mainstream than in reaching out to them.
I marvel at the constant attempts to frame conservatism as "the mainstream" and liberalism as something wacky, minority, and out-of-touch. Surely the closeness of the recent elections should be a clue that "the mainstream" isn't the bailiwick of the Republican party.
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Old 7th May 2017, 01:25 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
So you must be for universal healthcare, free education, social safety nets and progressive taxes, right?

How many US deaths are caused by poverty and other social factors? About the same as deaths from heart attacks and stroke
Are those going to keep people from dying? Looks like they aren't working.
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Old 7th May 2017, 01:27 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I marvel at the constant attempts to frame conservatism as "the mainstream" and liberalism as something wacky, minority, and out-of-touch. Surely the closeness of the recent elections should be a clue that "the mainstream" isn't the bailiwick of the Republican party.
Or the middle is quite small.

Last edited by logger; 7th May 2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 7th May 2017, 03:10 PM   #147
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I feel the need to reiterate.

Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
The Trump supporters I have the least sympathy for are the ones who are not at any risk of losing their health insurance, their jobs, or their retirements.

I have a ton of sympathy for those who are going to get screwed from voting for Trump. They were victims of a con-man and they are going to suffer.
They are still humans who just made a bad decision. Frankly, we're going to have to come together to keep Trump under control (or, better, remove him from control).
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:42 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I feel the need to reiterate.


They are still humans who just made a bad decision.
A few problems with that argument:

- The "bad decision" was one that was obvious from a mile away. This was not some cunningly-hidden plan; Trump campaigned on his racism. His policies (what few details he gave) made it clear he was going to hurt people. Yet people still voted for him.

- Many/most of the people who made the bad decision still stick by their decision. If you vote for a racist orangutan, and that orangutan flings his poop at people and you still say "I like the orangutan", you haven't really shown any realization that what you made a mistake.

Quote:
Frankly, we're going to have to come together to keep Trump under control (or, better, remove him from control).
Hard to do that if many people who voted for the racist orangutan have decided "hey I still like him".
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:05 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
A few problems with that argument:

- The "bad decision" was one that was obvious from a mile away. This was not some cunningly-hidden plan; Trump campaigned on his racism. His policies (what few details he gave) made it clear he was going to hurt people. Yet people still voted for him.
Of course Trump was saying it, his supporters knew you could trust a single thing he said. "Take him seriously not literally"
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Old 10th May 2017, 02:09 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Quote:
Frankly, we're going to have to come together to keep Trump under control (or, better, remove him from control).
Hard to do that if many people who voted for the racist orangutan have decided "hey I still like him".
I agree; I think it's generally a waste of time to try to convert the deplorables or the reactionaries who'll apparently vote for any non-liberal, no matter how pathetic. But we don't really need to; we just need to outnumber them.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:15 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
I agree; I think it's generally a waste of time to try to convert the deplorables or the reactionaries who'll apparently vote for any non-liberal, no matter how pathetic. But we don't really need to; we just need to outnumber them.
Doesn't matter, popular votes don't count.

Of course the idea that minority communities should get extra power only ever seems to apply to states and not other minority communities.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:30 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- The "bad decision" was one that was obvious from a mile away. This was not some cunningly-hidden plan; Trump campaigned on his racism. His policies (what few details he gave) made it clear he was going to hurt people. Yet people still voted for him.
You're not wrong, but I also don't think you should discount the effects that decades of conservative radio echo chamber have had on people. Trump is the culmination of the longest con jobs in history. Not one that had this specific president in mind, but one that enabled him.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- Many/most of the people who made the bad decision still stick by their decision. If you vote for a racist orangutan, and that orangutan flings his poop at people and you still say "I like the orangutan", you haven't really shown any realization that what you made a mistake.
Again, not wrong, but not necessarily the whole picture. Despite it all, many, if not most, of Trump's supporters do not see him or themselves as racist, misogynistic, etc.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Hard to do that if many people who voted for the racist orangutan have decided "hey I still like him".
Whoever said life was easy?
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Old 10th May 2017, 11:49 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I marvel at the constant attempts to frame conservatism as "the mainstream" and liberalism as something wacky, minority, and out-of-touch. Surely the closeness of the recent elections should be a clue that "the mainstream" isn't the bailiwick of the Republican party.
The "mainstream" in the US IS towards the center of the spectrum on a lot of issues. They're the "persuadable middle" that can make or break an election.

Why should white, blue collar, religiously devout people vote for a Democratic party that has spent the last 20+ years ignoring their economic concerns, deriding their religion, and hitting them with a non-stop barrage of hateful comments that blame them for every ill under the sun?

I will link again to this excellent article: https://www.thenation.com/article/wh...sts-they-dont/

I'm also going to recommend thie book "Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank.
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Old 10th May 2017, 11:53 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Are those going to keep people from dying? Looks like they aren't working.
Ultimately we all die. Does that mean we should just eschew all healthcare? The point is that people deprived of health care die earlier than they otherwise would and those that don't die outright are sicker than they would otherwise be. That has huge effects on the national economy from lost productivity if nothing else.

Every study shows that people in UHC nations live longer, healthier lives and pay less for it. Those are the important facts.
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Old 10th May 2017, 11:54 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The "mainstream" in the US IS towards the center of the spectrum on a lot of issues. They're the "persuadable middle" that can make or break an election.

Why should white, blue collar, religiously devout people vote for a Democratic party that has spent the last 20+ years ignoring their economic concerns, deriding their religion, and hitting them with a non-stop barrage of hateful comments that blame them for every ill under the sun?

I will link again to this excellent article: https://www.thenation.com/article/wh...sts-they-dont/

I'm also going to recommend thie book "Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank.


ETA: Oh, and before you accusing me of not understanding, you can stop. I understand it very well. I grew up with these people. They are my classmates, friends and family. I read the article. In my experience, it's nonsense. They voted for Trump because they are 1) racist, and 2) irrationally anti-Hillary.

Yes, they are the deplorables that she talked about. When she said that, I nodded my head in agreement. I know those people She was right.
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Old 11th May 2017, 08:15 AM   #156
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^I know those people too, and some of them are like that, but by no means all.

And I, as a white male Midwestern Christian have personally experienced the hatred of the alt-Left myself, and I'm a progressive.
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Old 16th May 2017, 10:48 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Why would you feel sympathy for them? It's a large collection of the some of the worst humanity has to offer.
Re-read the question: Which Trump supporters do you feel the LEAST amount of sympathy for.
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Old 17th September 2017, 06:21 PM   #158
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Hey, just came across another group to add to the "Should I feel sympathy" list...

Trump's former advisors, who now find themselves having to deal with huge legal bills as a result of investigations into the Trump campaign's possible ties to Russia:

From: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ru...rticle/2634655
An expanding special counsel probe into the Trump campaign's alleged Russian ties has saddled many of President Trump's current and former associates with hefty legal fees and left them few options for footing the bill.
...
Some have complained about the burden of paying for their legal bills without assistance from the wealthy president whose campaign is in the crosshairs of federal investigators.


So, here you have a group of people who knowingly joined the Trump campaign. Unlike the average voter who could at least claim ignorance about casting their vote for an incompetent orangutan, they were involved in the campaign; it was their job, so they should have known what they were getting into. And what they were getting into was to support a candidate who had been involved in hundreds of lawsuits in his life time. Who had a habit of short changing contractors. Who had to pay out millions in various legal settlements for things like Trump University. Who had used money from the Trump Foundation to make an illegal campaign contribution to a politician.

They should have known that Trump was a sleaze bag who would likely get into legal problems. They should have known that Trump shows little loyalty to those who work for him.

And now they're complaining about financial hardship.
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Old 17th September 2017, 08:29 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Hey, just came across another group to add to the "Should I feel sympathy" list...

Trump's former advisors, who now find themselves having to deal with huge legal bills as a result of investigations into the Trump campaign's possible ties to Russia:

From: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ru...rticle/2634655
An expanding special counsel probe into the Trump campaign's alleged Russian ties has saddled many of President Trump's current and former associates with hefty legal fees and left them few options for footing the bill.
...
Some have complained about the burden of paying for their legal bills without assistance from the wealthy president whose campaign is in the crosshairs of federal investigators.


So, here you have a group of people who knowingly joined the Trump campaign. Unlike the average voter who could at least claim ignorance about casting their vote for an incompetent orangutan, they were involved in the campaign; it was their job, so they should have known what they were getting into. And what they were getting into was to support a candidate who had been involved in hundreds of lawsuits in his life time. Who had a habit of short changing contractors. Who had to pay out millions in various legal settlements for things like Trump University. Who had used money from the Trump Foundation to make an illegal campaign contribution to a politician.

They should have known that Trump was a sleaze bag who would likely get into legal problems. They should have known that Trump shows little loyalty to those who work for him.

And now they're complaining about financial hardship.
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Old 18th September 2017, 01:08 AM   #160
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Mod WarningThe topic of this thread is: "Which Trump supporters do you feel the least amount of sympathy for?". Views on supporters of other politicians etc. would be off topic.
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