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Tags donald trump , Trump supporters

View Poll Results: Which Trump supporters do you feel the least amount of sympathy for
Those who rely on Obamacare 41 46.07%
Those living near the border who may loose their homes due to the wall 14 15.73%
Those concerned about internet privacy 10 11.24%
Those with friends/relatives who were affected by immigration policies 22 24.72%
Other 37 41.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10th April 2018, 04:19 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I just want them to realize their mistakes.
As Mark Twain may or may not have said, Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
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Old 10th April 2018, 04:27 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I see logger's love fest with Trump is still going strong. Some people actually enjoy being screwed over. I'm not one of them.
Confirmation bias may be the most powerful force on Earth.
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Old 10th April 2018, 04:33 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
As Mark Twain may or may not have said, Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Twain was great and he was right on. People dig their heels in when you suggest that they made a mistake. You can however sometimes lead them in such a way they come to the conclusion themselves. Sometimes.

Dale Carnegie in his famous book 'How to win friends and influence people' said the worst mistake you can make is to correct someone. He said it was sometimes necessary but there are ways to go about it. I think this is one of the most important lessons I have ever learned. It's a mistake I still make, but nowhere near as often as I once did.
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Old 10th April 2018, 05:47 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Confirmation bias may be the most powerful force on Earth.
It may not be the most powerful, but it's right up there at the top. I've always found it fascinating how people can twist themselves inside out to avoid having to admit they might be wrong. Insecure people just can't do that. Defending an error past the point of all logic and evidence is more acceptable to them than admitting an error.
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Old 10th April 2018, 07:39 PM   #205
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Now that I think about it, the obvious answer to the question in the poll is Trump himself.
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Old 11th April 2018, 10:05 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
As president Trump can:

- Issue executive orders. As an example of how this is a problem, He has issued orders which ban muslim travelers (an action based on bigotry rather than clear evidence of safety concerns)
Which the courts immediately and consistently slapped down. And executive orders are also constrained by the law, and are not binding on any other administration. The EOs essentially outline the manner in which the the current administration will go about the Executive branch duties assigned to it by Congress and the Constitution.

Quote:
- Execute new military actions for a limited time frame, and change troop deployments (which gives Trump the ability to start a war, if he choses a "temporary" military deployment that becomes impossible to easily pull out from)
A responsibility delegated to him by Congress, and which they can withdraw whenever they want. He holds the reins for now, at the pleasure of Congress.

Quote:
- He may be able to withdraw from certain treaties, such as NAFTA (the law is unclear about whether he can do this without congressional approval, but some experts say its possible)
So... maybe he can withdraw from some treaties? Now do you start to see why I think the President's powers might be a little overhyped?

Quote:
- He controls the nomination of people to judicial positions, and to the cabinet.
He controls the nominations, yes, but not the appointments. Congress has the final say.

Quote:
Thanks largely to him, we now have a hard-right Supreme court judge who may help outlaw abortion.
Thanks largely to him, to the current Congress, to several previous Congresses, to several previous Administrations, and to the shifting currents of opinion of American people today and going back a generation, we have the current composition of the Supreme Court. At which point, it's hard to say it's "largely" thanks to any single person. Certainly that judge didn't get to the bench without the advice and consent of Congress.

Quote:
He almost had lower-level judges appointed who were completely unqualified. You also have an EPA director who wants to gut the EPA, a head of the Department of Energy who didn't know what the party did, and the head of Housing who knew nothing about, well, housing.
The necessity, proper role, and size of these agencies is debatable. I am not particularly moved by your handwringing. It's problematic, yes, but hardly the stuff of god-emperors. The Executive branch does some important things, but it's not the all-powerful leadership people make it out to be.

I'd be willing to discuss the role of the Executive, and how a bad president can harm the country through mismanagement of his branch of government. I'm just not interested in discussing it in the hyperbolic context of the president being the country's supreme leader.

I think the country could benefit a lot from everybody taking a step back and rethinking their assumptions of what the Executive branch is for, and what the President actually does.

Quote:
- He can veto legislation, leading to a potential stalemate with congress. Alternatively, he can fail to use his veto when needed. Hence, the U.S. will now have billions of dollars added to its debt and taxes on many in the lower and middle class will rise within a decade
This is as much about Congress leading the country as it is about the President leading the country. "Fail to use his veto when needed"? Now you're straining at anything that might seem to justify your view of the President as supreme ruler.

Quote:
- As a "figurehead" he has shown pettiness, incompetence and bigotry. (Imagine being one of the Navajo code-talkers, at an event to get honored for serving in WW2, only to have Trump start to politicize the event). Words from the president DO have an effect, on the way the country is viewed, on the way people relate to one another and the government.
Being a bad figurehead isn't the same as holding the reins to the country.

Quote:
All of this matters. A lot.
None of it supports the view that the President is the supreme leader of the country.

Last edited by theprestige; 11th April 2018 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 13th April 2018, 12:24 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
So they....handed the reins to a well known fraud and BS artist?

Sure. Seems legit.

Lol
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The president of doesn't hold the reins of the country.
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
You do realize that's a metaphor, right?

And as a metaphor for guiding the direction the country heads in, it's perfectly appropriate.

If you're reading any more into it than that, you're being needlessly pedantic.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh, they're not literal reins?


I think the degree to which the President guides the country is vastly overstated in modern American mythology.
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
As president Trump can:

<List>

All of this matters. A lot.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
<Point by point responses to List>
None of it supports the view that the President is the supreme leader of the country.
Where did supreme leader come from?

Recognizing that the POTUS has some power to "Make America Great Again" and "Take their country back" if he is "given the reins to the country" hardly amounts to "supreme leader".

If he can't do anything then why do we have a POTUS?
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Old 13th April 2018, 12:44 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The president of doesn't hold the reins of the country.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He holds the reins for now
Make up your mind.
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Old 14th April 2018, 03:18 AM   #209
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Not a shred of sympathy for any of them. They are free to burn in hell for their evil.
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Old 17th April 2018, 02:49 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Where did supreme leader come from?

Recognizing that the POTUS has some power to "Make America Great Again" and "Take their country back" if he is "given the reins to the country" hardly amounts to "supreme leader".

If he can't do anything then why do we have a POTUS?
Not sure how to go about this comparison.

Obama failed to do a whole lot of the things that he said he was going to do. There was a lot of dissatisfaction at the lack of effectiveness he had as a president. During his presidency, I frequently heard rejoinders that effectively said that POTUS has really limited power to do anything, and that really, it's congress that gets things done. So the reason that Obama couldn't get things done was because POTUS really doesn't have that much power.
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Old 17th April 2018, 02:53 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Not a shred of sympathy for any of them. They are free to burn in hell for their evil.
Politics is not religion.
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Old 17th April 2018, 03:06 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Not sure how to go about this comparison.

Obama failed to do a whole lot of the things that he said he was going to do. There was a lot of dissatisfaction at the lack of effectiveness he had as a president. During his presidency, I frequently heard rejoinders that effectively said that POTUS has really limited power to do anything, and that really, it's congress that gets things done. So the reason that Obama couldn't get things done was because POTUS really doesn't have that much power.
My interpretation of Dr. Keith's post was that it was sarcasm.

POTUS is head of the executive. This person is in charge of enacting the laws created by Congress. The State of the Union address is the President reporting to Congress that he has made their will so upon the land, in a timely manner, within the budget granted, please don't impeach him.

Over the centuries, and especially over the last century, Congress has delegated more decisionmaking power to the Executive. Political scientists have studied this phenomenon and have some theories about whether this is good or bad.
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Old 19th April 2018, 07:28 AM   #213
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Those looking for some more enjoyment of Trump voters getting exactly what they voted for and not liking it, look up NPR's Planet Money podcast, episode 832 (can't link, account too new).

It's about usurious payday lenders. Specifically follows the story of a Trump voter that got screwed by an especially sketchy lender. Turns out CFPB has been gutted under Trump and pending case against the sketchy lender has been dropped. Very savory schadenfreuden.
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Old 26th April 2018, 04:55 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
The ones that live near streams that Trump is allowing coal companies to poison, for one.
and rivers (Duke Energy slimes which I refuse to get solar panels because Duke got rules passed that force you to give them energy from your array - Florida voters got suckered into passing a very bad law re: solar.
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Old 24th May 2018, 08:49 AM   #215
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Another group that we should feel less than sympathetic to...

Harley-Davidson workers who have found that, thanks in part to Trump's tariffs and withdrawl from the TPP, are seeing production shift to foreign countries.

From: http://www.kansascity.com/latest-new...204892439.html
A handful of Harley-Davidson workers came by the office a few days ago to talk about the closing of their motorcycle plant north of the river. All were frustrated, as you might expect.
...
President Donald Trump? He’d just imposed huge tariffs on imported steel. That will make domestic Harleys more expensive, encourage the company to move more jobs overseas and potentially lead other nations to raise taxes on Harley-Davidson bikes....Yet the workers weren’t really mad at the president. Most of the workforce at Harley-Davidson, they admitted, probably voted for him.


But at least the Republican tax cut allowed the company to give huge dividends to share holders and engage in stock buybacks. That was the point of the tax cuts, wasn't it?
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Old 24th May 2018, 12:02 PM   #216
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Cool

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Other: all of the above and then some.
QFT
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Old 26th May 2018, 05:37 PM   #217
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Trump support can be roughly divided into the cynical and the true believers.


Cynical:
Rich people wanting less taxes on rich people
Companies not wanting to pay for the consequences to third parties (externalities) of their business.
Companies looking to get special favors from the government or to promote their business with the government (drug companies, military suppliers, etc.)



True believers:
Partisan Republicans (my party right or wrong)
Social conservatives
Nativists
Racists
People in particular niches that believe the government is harming the industry they are in for unjustified reasons (coal miners)
Authoritarians
Israel militancy supporters
Extreme gun right believers



I am sympathetic to people in the true believer group. They are preyed on and exploited by Fox News. They may not be particularly introspective about it, but they at least tell themselves their support of Trump is righteous.


I have little or no sympathy for people in the cynical group. Based on their ethics they are criminals. They use legal and illegal bribery to promote their special interests at the expense of the general interests. They promote wars to sell more military hardware and to jack up the price of oil, they fight to prevent reasonable environmental protections to enrich themselves, they support destroying the social safety network to put more money in their already full pockets, they fight to remove reasonable consumer protections so they can exploit the poorest people in our society, etc.


If given full rein the cynical portion of the American aristocracy could destroy the US as we know it today. There would be a kind of schadenfreude element to their victory. They would turn the US into a third world country with massive pollution (think China where children can't go to school many days of the year because of air pollution) and vast differences between the wealthy and the poor where the aristocracy is forced to live in walled compounds (think Haiti).
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Old 26th May 2018, 07:04 PM   #218
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You've omitted those from the "Heartland" who simply hate coastal urban elites, so they voted for a guy can't be any more coastal, urban or elite.
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Old 26th May 2018, 08:21 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You've omitted those from the "Heartland" who simply hate coastal urban elites, so they voted for a guy can't be any more coastal, urban or elite.

I agree, this is part of it. Envy and hate played a significant role in Trump support. People pissed at secular people, pissed at financially successful coastal citizens, and just in general more than happy to blame somebody else for the problems of life. So are these true believers or just jerks. I don't know.
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Old 26th May 2018, 08:43 PM   #220
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I have the least sympathy for the Trumpkins who try to lie on my Facebook page. That's a big no-no. I control my Facebook page. I don't like Trumpkins crapping all over it.

When this happens, I typically delete the Trumpkin gibberish and replace it with "This space was formerly occupied by the filthy, stinking lies of a Trumpkin who thought he could get away with using my Facebook page for a Trump dump."
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:51 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
The ones that live near streams that Trump is allowing coal companies to poison, for one.
and rivers, lakes, ponds, underground water supplies.............................
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:53 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here's another group... Farmers (who overwhelmingly supported Trump) are now worried that Trump's plans to renegotiate NAFTA will affect their sales.

http://www.grubstreet.com/2017/02/fa...-position.html
Tough **** - and they should be made to eat it!!!!!
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:55 PM   #223
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I cannot be bothered to worry about farmers so stupid as to vote for trumpf - but at least their kids won't be forced to marry farm animals as they claimed in the early 80's and later.
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:57 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yeah, other... I only have a few American peers who were Trumpies, and they're all on silent running right now.

Most of them operate businesses that depend on modifying imported items, which are now at risk of seeing their costs skyrocket. For example, I have a friend in Seattle who frosts glass in chandeliers. The blanks are manufactured in the Philippines, and he's always monitoring American sourcing as alternatives, but evidently domestic supply will quadruple the final price, which will reduce his sales volume considerably, and jeopardize the viability of his business.
life does get way harder when ya' back loser slime republickers!!!!!
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Old 26th May 2018, 09:58 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
r/the_donald subscribers on reddit. The reddit is filled with the most foul apologists on the planet and the moderators are currently on a massive ban campaign on any subscriber who dares to question if trump is anything other than the greatest 4D chess player on planet earth. Many people over there are getting antsy over the bombing in Syria as many there were convinced the chemical attacks were a false flag event by the global elite and that trump was too smart to fall for it. After he attacked a wave of panic rippled through the pages followed quickly by mass banning. Just wait until their master, Bannon, is kicked to the curb.
and buried under it - alive!!!
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:01 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That was day 1.

Defeating ISIS (30 days).

Elminate the debt - 10 years.

BTW, the latest Trump lie: he did not know Steve Bannon before Bannon joined the campaign. Although when he hired Steve Bannon, he claimed he had known him for years. He had been on Bannon's radio show multiple times.

OK, this is a trivial little lie, but then again, it's stupid. Why bother lying about something so trivial? It's because he has no regard for the truth.
and because he seems to believe all the **** that rolls trippingly (literally) off his tongue.
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:04 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Hey, I have a better question!

Which Sesame Street character do you feel sorry for since Hillary lost the election?!?!?!?

I've been wondering this fornever!
Then why ask??? And yes, I caught the last word. Though Big Bird is very sad that some some dunces prefer and orange orangutan with delusions of competence.

Good try though and you will be taking with you a copy of our home game!!!!!
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:08 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Another "Other" would be Canadians who support Trump.

Specifically, I have a work colleague who was excited about Trump, "because he'll bring our jobs back." I didn't really want to get into it with her in the Fall, but since the election she's shifted to asking questions. A bit late, IMO.

Anyway, the fact she had somehow overlooked was that WE'RE NOT THE USA.

So when Trump said he would be bringing jobs 'back' to America... that's going to come from a million Canadians in the Quebec-Windsor corridor building auto parts for GM and Ford. People like her brother. So now she's grokking that a US plan to strongarm the world to siphon value into the USA means Canadian standard of living is in the crosshairs.


Having said that... another Trumpie I met on the bus last fall might still be happy. He was unemployed anyway, and his solution seemed to be to 'send all the darkies back where they came from'. The guy was kinda hilarious in that he was so furious that he once saw n-words openly smoking a joint on the street... meanwhile he's talking to me sipping a bottle of red label wrapped in a paper bag, on a public bus. It was like he was trying to be a stereotype. Here six months later, I'm still entertaining the possibility it was performance art.
You left off the f on that last word.
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Old 26th May 2018, 10:12 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Twain was great and he was right on. People dig their heels in when you suggest that they made a mistake. You can however sometimes lead them in such a way they come to the conclusion themselves. Sometimes.

Dale Carnegie in his famous book 'How to win friends and influence people' said the worst mistake you can make is to correct someone. He said it was sometimes necessary but there are ways to go about it. I think this is one of the most important lessons I have ever learned. It's a mistake I still make, but nowhere near as often as I once did.
Let people be stupid so they get what they deserve: for example trumpf for the incompetent tools that voted for it. The more he ruins their lives/allows their lives to be ruined, the happier I am.
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Old 27th May 2018, 03:42 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Not a shred of sympathy for any of them. They are free to burn in hell for their evil.

I find it hard to blame people for falling for demagoguery.

Just how much money and airtime has been pointed at the 'government bad!' meme over the last 30 years? Corporate interests have leveraged the meme in order to sap power from elected government and pass it into the hands of unregulated corporate entities for which a weak government and a weak and incompetent president are desirable for corporations that want to do things for profit in opposition to the public good.

This is not even the end point. Look how useless government is now?
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:16 AM   #231
LSSBB
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I find it hard to blame people for falling for demagoguery.

Just how much money and airtime has been pointed at the 'government bad!' meme over the last 30 years? Corporate interests have leveraged the meme in order to sap power from elected government and pass it into the hands of unregulated corporate entities for which a weak government and a weak and incompetent president are desirable for corporations that want to do things for profit in opposition to the public good.

This is not even the end point. Look how useless government is now?
I don't need an ad to tell me "government bad", I live in Illinois, where bad government walks up and slaps you in the face, steals your wallet, then moons you.
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Old 27th May 2018, 05:59 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I don't need an ad to tell me "government bad", I live in Illinois, where bad government walks up and slaps you in the face, steals your wallet, then moons you.

Could you be more specific?

And could you tell me if you believe that this is a universal state of government or if you think it's specifically Illinoisian?
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Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

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Old 27th May 2018, 06:15 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Could you be more specific?

And could you tell me if you believe that this is a universal state of government or if you think it's specifically Illinoisian?
I have watched two of our governors go to jail, a mayor rip up an airport in the middle of the night so he could build a park for his wife, and the state finances swirl down the bowl anchored by a bad pension system crafted to benefit government insiders.

Still not enough to make me vote for an ass like Trump (because he's cut from the same cloth, only with a more narcissistic dye), but not a shining example of selfless devotion to the will of the people either.
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Old 27th May 2018, 10:50 AM   #234
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At this point, with all clear to see, anyone and everyone who still supports Trump is probably too far gone for redemption. Whether that support is emotional blind devotion or the calculus of strategic gamesmanship. The former have crossed over into unreality and demonstrate an inability for objective thinking. The latter are dangerous scum, whether cowardly pusilanimity or Machiavellian aggrandizement informs their motives.
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Old 28th May 2018, 09:56 AM   #235
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More fear that they are pointless and unimportant. Pretty much they are.
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Old 28th May 2018, 10:56 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Politics is not religion.
Trumpism is religion
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Old 28th May 2018, 01:47 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Trumpism is religion
The worship of terrible tools and foul fools!!!!!!
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Old 28th May 2018, 02:23 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Trumpism is religion
There *must* be some element of a religion-like fervor going on here. In the space of but a single election cycle *white* evangelical Christians have jettisoned their erstwhile core insistence on moral rectitude in politicians, and have embraced one who is practically the antithesis. One does wonder if Trump really could shoot someone (a lefty librul, of course) and get yet another Mulligan from this crowd.

It seems the prosperity gospel aspect has blinded many to see Trump's 'wealth' as a sign of God's approval. Indeed, some number of his followers would seem to actually believe Trump was anointed by God in his mission. How widespread is this belief would be worthwhile to know. For a 'martyred' servant of God can be a catalyst to frightful upheaval.
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Old 28th May 2018, 05:16 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
There *must* be some element of a religion-like fervor going on here. In the space of but a single election cycle *white* evangelical Christians have jettisoned their erstwhile core insistence on moral rectitude in politicians, and have embraced one who is practically the antithesis. One does wonder if Trump really could shoot someone (a lefty librul, of course) and get yet another Mulligan from this crowd.

It seems the prosperity gospel aspect has blinded many to see Trump's 'wealth' as a sign of God's approval. Indeed, some number of his followers would seem to actually believe Trump was anointed by God in his mission. How widespread is this belief would be worthwhile to know. For a 'martyred' servant of God can be a catalyst to frightful upheaval.
Would not mind seeing them "martyred" by their own
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Old 28th May 2018, 06:26 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
I have the least sympathy for the Trumpkins who try to lie on my Facebook page. That's a big no-no. I control my Facebook page. I don't like Trumpkins crapping all over it.

When this happens, I typically delete the Trumpkin gibberish and replace it with "This space was formerly occupied by the filthy, stinking lies of a Trumpkin who thought he could get away with using my Facebook page for a Trump dump."
Maybe you should prove them wrong instead. A common belief is that liberals will argue to a point then either leave the room in disgust or say they don't wanna talk about it.

These both happened to me recently. I told one good friend how much it cost me in gas to drive to San Jose. She said, "Ya because Trump bla bla..."

I said, "I have this on my screen right now [and I did]. It says gas went up to 4 dollars under Obama and was around $1.80 when he began his term, so the person in office doesn't usually matter. Prices always fluctuate"

Her: "I don't wanna talk politics!"

"Me either, you mentioned Trump not me!"

I'm sure both "sides" can claim the same thing though. I don't but surely some do All I mentioned was one little factoid that didn't fit her outrage of the day.

Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
There *must* be some element of a religion-like fervor going on here. In the space of but a single election cycle *white* evangelical Christians have jettisoned their erstwhile core insistence on moral rectitude in politicians, and have embraced one who is practically the antithesis. One does wonder if Trump really could shoot someone (a lefty librul, of course) and get yet another Mulligan from this crowd.

It seems the prosperity gospel aspect has blinded many to see Trump's 'wealth' as a sign of God's approval. Indeed, some number of his followers would seem to actually believe Trump was anointed by God in his mission. How widespread is this belief would be worthwhile to know. For a 'martyred' servant of God can be a catalyst to frightful upheaval.
Trump: Servant Of God. Haha maybe for a few. The rest need to believe Trump stands for them, God need not apply.

I've mentioned the Martyr thing before but I attributed that to all the constant attacks coming from the left, everything from his appearance to virtually everything else, every day, constantly. Again, no gawd needed.

People claimed the Obama thing was Messiah-ish as well. Or was that Santa Claus-ish? Anyone who thinks their guy, or their side, is The True Answer is a fool.
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