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Tags donald trump , Trump supporters

View Poll Results: Which Trump supporters do you feel the least amount of sympathy for
Those who rely on Obamacare 41 46.07%
Those living near the border who may loose their homes due to the wall 14 15.73%
Those concerned about internet privacy 10 11.24%
Those with friends/relatives who were affected by immigration policies 22 24.72%
Other 37 41.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th February 2019, 01:13 AM   #281
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The voters who like to pretend they didn't vote for Trump.
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:32 PM   #282
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Then you have the mindless true believers who will support anything Trump does...we have at least one of those who posts a lot here....
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Old 29th August 2019, 10:09 PM   #283
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Time to dust off this thread with another case of Trump supporters complaining when Trump acts like Trump:

In this case Corn farmers (the majority of which voted for Trump) who have seen corn prices drop because the EPA is allowing more oil refineries to not add ethanol to gas. Result: Less demand for ethanol->Less demand for corn->lower corn prices.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...p-epa-n1048011
The Midwest agricultural industry is up in arms not only due to the president's trade war, but because the Environmental Protection Agency recently exempted 31 small oil refineries from rules that would require them to blend ethanol, which comes from corn, into their fuel supply. Those exemptions are now forcing farmers to grapple with lost revenue from wasted crops.

Aistrope is one Midwestern corn farmer who, through the last two seasons, has battled depressed corn prices. Many farmers like him have stuck with Trump during his protracted trade war with China, arguing that the U.S. does need to fix its trade policy with Beijing. But now farmers such as Aistrope say these waivers are a step too far.


They voted for Trump... a man who is from New York (i.e. not farm country), and thought global warming was a hoax. A man for whom there were plenty of warning signs that he was an idiot. Yet they voted for him anyways, and now they are suffering.

What did they think was going to happen?
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Old 29th August 2019, 11:32 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Time to dust off this thread with another case of Trump supporters complaining when Trump acts like Trump:

In this case Corn farmers (the majority of which voted for Trump) who have seen corn prices drop because the EPA is allowing more oil refineries to not add ethanol to gas. Result: Less demand for ethanol->Less demand for corn->lower corn prices.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...p-epa-n1048011
The Midwest agricultural industry is up in arms not only due to the president's trade war, but because the Environmental Protection Agency recently exempted 31 small oil refineries from rules that would require them to blend ethanol, which comes from corn, into their fuel supply. Those exemptions are now forcing farmers to grapple with lost revenue from wasted crops.

Aistrope is one Midwestern corn farmer who, through the last two seasons, has battled depressed corn prices. Many farmers like him have stuck with Trump during his protracted trade war with China, arguing that the U.S. does need to fix its trade policy with Beijing. But now farmers such as Aistrope say these waivers are a step too far.


They voted for Trump... a man who is from New York (i.e. not farm country), and thought global warming was a hoax. A man for whom there were plenty of warning signs that he was an idiot. Yet they voted for him anyways, and now they are suffering.

What did they think was going to happen?
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side. The farmers don't care about free healthcare or education. They care about how they are going to sell their crop next year and pay for keeping the farm going. Dems need to realise that and get them on their side instead of ignoring them and only focusing on the coastal Urban communities that are already liberal bastions.
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:31 AM   #285
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I hope that Trump's new anti-Soldier-offspring birthright rule will cure members of the Armed Forces of their infatuation with him.
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Old 30th August 2019, 03:38 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I hope that Trump's new anti-Soldier-offspring birthright rule will cure members of the Armed Forces of their infatuation with him.
Maybe, but I doubt it.

As long as he makes the right noises about loving the military and keeps increasing military spending then it's likely that the infatuation will continue.

If attacking gold star parents, trying to kick transgender people out of the military and deploying inside the US doesn't cause the needle to move, then it's unlikely that this will make a significant difference.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:03 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Maybe, but I doubt it.

As long as he makes the right noises about loving the military and keeps increasing military spending then it's likely that the infatuation will continue.

If attacking gold star parents, trying to kick transgender people out of the military and deploying inside the US doesn't cause the needle to move, then it's unlikely that this will make a significant difference.
A lot of them because they don't have any other choices. Democrats are really bad at trying to steal Republican voters by getting to understand their concerns and issues. The Military, just like the farming sector, is ripe for plucking by the Dems, if they would look beyond their current base, and stop ignoring everyone else and leaving them to choose between voting Republican or just not voting.
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Old 30th August 2019, 04:36 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side. The farmers don't care about free healthcare or education. They care about how they are going to sell their crop next year and pay for keeping the farm going. Dems need to realise that and get them on their side instead of ignoring them and only focusing on the coastal Urban communities that are already liberal bastions.

That would be ideal, of course, but I worry that a significant portion of conservatives/Trump supporters have been so indoctrinated by Fox News that they won't even listen to a Democrat. Hell, I know some of these people personally myself. Tell them a positive thing about Ds or a negative thing about Rs and they just rationalize it away at best, simply consider it a lie at worst. Democrats talking and listening to them (and it's oversimplifying to say that they don't do that now) won't come to any fruition for a while in my opinion--at least not for a generation. Of course, I don't mean that to imply it therefore shouldn't be addressed.
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Old 30th August 2019, 08:13 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side. The farmers don't care about free healthcare or education. They care about how they are going to sell their crop next year and pay for keeping the farm going. Dems need to realise that and get them on their side instead of ignoring them and only focusing on the coastal Urban communities that are already liberal bastions.
I feel my previous opinion is still valid:
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
The Trump supporters I have the least sympathy for are the ones who are not at any risk of losing their health insurance, their jobs, or their retirements.

I have a ton of sympathy for those who are going to get screwed from voting for Trump. They were victims of a con-man and they are going to suffer.
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Old 30th August 2019, 08:16 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. .
In short, they fell for a fast-talking city-slicker. Everything they probably told themselves they would never, ever do.
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Old 30th August 2019, 09:04 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Quote:
Time to dust off this thread with another case of Trump supporters complaining when Trump acts like Trump:

In this case Corn farmers (the majority of which voted for Trump) who have seen corn prices drop because the EPA is allowing more oil refineries to not add ethanol to gas. Result: Less demand for ethanol->Less demand for corn->lower corn prices.
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side. The farmers don't care about free healthcare or education. They care about how they are going to sell their crop next year and pay for keeping the farm going. Dems need to realise that and get them on their side instead of ignoring them and only focusing on the coastal Urban communities that are already liberal bastions.
But here's the thing... Clinton and the Democrats had policies that would benefit farmers and others in rural areas.

Some policies were targeted specifically at rural areas: Improved infrastructure to rural areas (including broadband), increased grants to the Department of Agriculture, streamline regulations for small financial services companies serving rural areas, and support for new farmers.

https://ballotpedia.org/Hillary_Clin...nd_food_policy

Other Democratic policies were more general in nature, but still would have benefited rural areas: The Trans Pacific Partnership deal would have opened up new agricultural markets (remember how Trump bragging about improved access to Canadian dairy markets under his new NAFTA 2 trade deal? The TPP already had much of that built in, until Trump withdrew from it.) And while you may not think Farmers care about "free health care", but they still benefit from things like Obamacare.

For example, from: https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...ithout-options
Before the Affordable Care Act (ACA) was passed in 2010, farmers were just as concerned about the state of healthcare as they are today. Many were looking for full time, off-farm jobs just to access health insurance....The Medicaid expansion has proven especially beneficial to rural communities, where the rate of enrollment is higher than in urban America, and the ACA’s system of tax credits and premium subsidies helps young farmers access insurance while enabling established farmers to maintain consistent coverage.

So yeah, health care was an issue with farmers, but most decided to vote for Trump and the republicans, who are working to take away their health care.

So, we've now established what the Democrats were offering farmers and others in rural areas: More infrastructure, better health care, more funding to agricultural grants, etc. There were a couple of things that could have been a negative (such as support for animal welfare), but for the most part there policies would have been beneficial.

What were Trump and the republicans offering? Well, lets see. From an article posted in the middle of the 2016 election:

From: https://modernfarmer.com/2016/09/201...-food-farming/
Trump’s platform does not specifically mention food, agriculture, or rural communities, and to our knowledge he has never directly addressed the subject of local and regional food systems. But he recently released a list of agriculture advisors that paints a vivid picture of the sort of policies to expect under a President Trump. The 65 names on the list are a who’s who of industrial agriculture advocates...

So rather than Trump "going to fight for them (farmers)", Trump had surrounded himself with people who were likely to push for 'Big agriculture' at the expense of family farms.

Still think that it was Trump and the republicans who were the ones who went to farmers to defend their interests? It was pretty clear right from the start that he wasn't going to do anything for them.

That brings up a question: Why DO the republicans seem to have such widespread support among farmers (despite having policies that are often harmful to them)? Could be due to secondary issues: Gun rights advocates and evangelical christians do tend to make up a big portion of rural America... maybe its a case of the farmers "Hating the gayz and loving their gunz" that draws them to the republicans.
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Old 30th August 2019, 09:26 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
In short, they fell for a fast-talking city-slicker. Everything they probably told themselves they would never, ever do.
At best. I suspect it was more about guns and bigotry than anything else - pretty much everyone that lived anywhere near any of his businesses was clearly saying "He's a petty conman who rips off the little guy just for fun." And frankly, this was all obvious just by listening to him. Meanwhile, yes, dems (and many republicans) have continually put forward policies that would help them - although naturally, like republicans, their presidential candidates focus on a handful of battleground states.

Turns out the people who never even listen to anyone from city, end up with goofy ideas about them and are all but unable to actually judge their character. I'll reserve my sympathy for small farmers that voted for Clinton.
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Old 30th August 2019, 10:01 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I hope that Trump's new anti-Soldier-offspring birthright rule will cure members of the Armed Forces of their infatuation with him.
Yes, one can hope, however I'm doubtful. It just seems as if those who drank the Koolaide are still under the influence.
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Old 30th August 2019, 10:42 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I hope that Trump's new anti-Soldier-offspring birthright rule will cure members of the Armed Forces of their infatuation with him.
Well, if it means anything, here's something from last year:

From: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...ew-poll-shows/
President Donald Trump’s approval rating among active-duty military personnel has slipped over the last two years... About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency, the poll showed, compared to 43 percent who disapproved. The results from the survey, conducted over the course of September and October, suggest a gradual decline in troops’ support of Trump since he was elected in fall 2016, when a similar Military Times poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared to 37 percent who disapproved.

Now, that was just 2 polls (taken a year apart). But they do show a decline from Trump having OK support to it being pretty much a statistical tie between those who approve and disapprove of his presidency.

I wonder if they'll be doing another poll this coming fall, and whether it will show further erosion of support.

ETA: I'm not sure if people in the military were ever 'infatuated' with Trump. Yes, more people approved of Trump than disapproved of him at the start of his term, but his net approval was only in the single digits in 2017.
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Old 30th August 2019, 10:43 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
That would be ideal, of course, but I worry that a significant portion of conservatives/Trump supporters have been so indoctrinated by Fox News that they won't even listen to a Democrat. Hell, I know some of these people personally myself. Tell them a positive thing about Ds or a negative thing about Rs and they just rationalize it away at best, simply consider it a lie at worst. Democrats talking and listening to them (and it's oversimplifying to say that they don't do that now) won't come to any fruition for a while in my opinion--at least not for a generation. Of course, I don't mean that to imply it therefore shouldn't be addressed.
Yeah, there is no real way to make headway with these guys in any kind of timeframe that would affect the next election, so it makes a kind of sense to write them off this election cycle. It also made sense to write them off last election cycle. And the one before that, and the one before that...

You change their minds with sustained pressure over the course of many years (just look at what FOX and daytime radio have done), not a clever quip or Youtube video. The DNC is all about campaign contributions and winning the next election however, and if that is your goal, then it will never make sense to reach out and convince these guys.
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Old 1st September 2019, 09:35 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Democrats are really bad at trying to steal Republican voters by getting to understand their concerns and issues. The Military, just like the farming sector, is ripe for plucking by the Dems, if they would look beyond their current base, and stop ignoring everyone else and leaving them to choose between voting Republican or just not voting.
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I worry that a significant portion of conservatives/Trump supporters have been so indoctrinated by Fox News that they won't even listen to a Democrat.
The problem is worse than just ignoring those voters. Step one would be for Democrats to just quit habitually expressing all-out disdain for them... which would probably require getting rid of those Democrats who have that disdain.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...ew-poll-shows/...

Now, that was just 2 polls (taken a year apart). But they do show a decline...

I'm not sure if people in the military were ever 'infatuated' with Trump. Yes, more people approved of Trump than disapproved of him at the start of his term, but his net approval was only in the single digits in 2017.
The correlation between being in the armed forces and being Republican or conservative has not been particularly strong for a long time if it ever was. It's just often made to seem that way by either the anti-military antics of a substantial amount of Democrats/liberals, or conservative support for military interventionism.
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Old 1st September 2019, 09:44 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side.
Oh please, the Dems did address these issues and those rural folk chose to believe the pack of lies Trump told them. Those farmers face problems for which there are no easy solutions. They didn't want to hear that so they listened to the snake oil salesman promising them a miracle cure.
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Old 1st September 2019, 12:04 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
They voted for a guy that was the first one to go to them in decades and tell them that he not only understood their issues, but that he was going to fight for them and make things better, something no one else has been doing for them. So yeah they believed him and voted for him. If the Dems had any brains they'd be in these rural areas, speaking to these farmers about the issues they are facing, and working out how to solve them so that they can get them on their side. The farmers don't care about free healthcare or education. They care about how they are going to sell their crop next year and pay for keeping the farm going. Dems need to realise that and get them on their side instead of ignoring them and only focusing on the coastal Urban communities that are already liberal bastions.
Why? Surely, if these people are so downtrodden and misunderstood and not racist wankers, they will know by now that they made a mistake in 2016 and not vote for the orange man-child again?
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Old 1st September 2019, 12:13 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
The problem is worse than just ignoring those voters. Step one would be for Democrats to just quit habitually expressing all-out disdain for them... which would probably require getting rid of those Democrats who have that disdain.
I disagree. Anyone who would even think about voting for Trump deserves to be treated with all-out disdain. The trick to winning the next election isn't to win over Trump voters. Everyone who is able to realize the huge mistake they made in 2016 has already done so. What remain are the racists and dimwits. You can't persuade those people, so you might as well fire up your base by painting them out as the racist morons they are.

The Democrats need to seriously get out the vote in all areas of the electorate that aren't Trump-voters. That means a ground work focused on registering people to vote on a large scale. They also need to start fighting the propaganda war. Start lying about Republicans. If one of them by chance hasn't had a gay lover or fiddled a kid, say they did anyway. Forge evidence.
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Old 1st September 2019, 02:31 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Oh please, the Dems did address these issues and those rural folk chose to believe the pack of lies Trump told them. Those farmers face problems for which there are no easy solutions. They didn't want to hear that so they listened to the snake oil salesman promising them a miracle cure.
They didn't want to hear the truth any more than the coal miners in W. VA wanted to hear Clinton's plan to retrain them because coal mining isn't coming back. No, they chose to vote for the snake oil salesman promising them that 'clean coal' is just great and he'll bring the jobs back. The facts say otherwise. Coal jobs have not increased and coal use in the US is at a 41 yr. low.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...a-41-year-low/

I hope they're also enjoying that fantastic, cheap health care Trump brought them. Black lung isn't a pretty disease. They'll probably vote for him again. Idiots.
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:15 AM   #301
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It depends on the people fooled. The ones who were taken in and voted for him because they thought he would help their struggling town I suppose I can have some limited sympathy for. It's not their fault they haven't been taught critical thinking, or that they are desperate enough to disregard doubts and rationality.

The "I didn't think the leopards would eat my face!" and "he's not hurting the people I want him to be hurting" people deserve whatever Trump throws at them.
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Old 8th September 2019, 08:03 AM   #302
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At this point, I have no sympathy for any of them. In 2016 you could still support Trump and not be betraying your country now, there's just no way. You'd have to live in a cave to not have a clear understanding that this is what you're voting for when you vote for Trump.
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:44 AM   #303
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I'm not going to say that something bad should happen to them. But if it does, and it's the result of Trump, I have no sympathy for them. Fug 'em.
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:57 AM   #304
Apathia
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
That brings up a question: Why DO the republicans seem to have such widespread support among farmers (despite having policies that are often harmful to them)?
Most still see the Republican Party as the party representing the American dream of rags to riches or at least rags to Nordstroms. In their eyes its the party that stands for self-reliant hard work reaping the good life.

As for the Democratic Party, they see that as the party of handouts to people who have not (as one of my friends says) "hustled" and made due effort. "It's not right!" Also they see accepting anything from government as a road to dependence upon government and tyranny. They even oppose legislating a living wage because that's government interference of the American Dream.

Since this ethos is written into their personal identities facts and reasons will not, can not budge them. And even if the policies of the Party of Trump bankrupts them, they will find a way to blame the Godless Liberals.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:22 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Most still see the Republican Party as the party representing the American dream of rags to riches or at least rags to Nordstroms. In their eyes its the party that stands for self-reliant hard work reaping the good life.

As for the Democratic Party, they see that as the party of handouts to people who have not (as one of my friends says) "hustled" and made due effort. "It's not right!" Also they see accepting anything from government as a road to dependence upon government and tyranny. They even oppose legislating a living wage because that's government interference of the American Dream.

Since this ethos is written into their personal identities facts and reasons will not, can not budge them. And even if the policies of the Party of Trump bankrupts them, they will find a way to blame the Godless Liberals.
That last sentence raises another element; religion. Without numbers or other evidence to support it, my impression is that liberals tend to secularism, a more likely outcome of education, world experience and exposure to other cultures.

Conservatives tend to be less receptive to change, and more likely to cleave to religion and identify with those who claim (not even demonstrate) a religious foundation.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:55 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
That last sentence raises another element; religion. Without numbers or other evidence to support it, my impression is that liberals tend to secularism, a more likely outcome of education, world experience and exposure to other cultures.

Conservatives tend to be less receptive to change, and more likely to cleave to religion and identify with those who claim (not even demonstrate) a religious foundation.
Yes. I have a friend who was secular in nature back when we were in college. Since he's become religious. And he supports the Party of Trump for the sake of "Religious Liberty" (Meaning that Seventh-day Adventist parochial schools should have the right to dismiss teachers that don't tow the line on Creationism and abortion, or are LGBTQ+). The Party of Trump has become the friendly go to for such people. And it's even becoming the party of vaccine "choice."

Remember "Liberals want to tell you how to live in your own home, raise your own children, and worry over two trash cans instead of one.'
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Most still see the Republican Party as the party representing the American dream of rags to riches or at least rags to Nordstroms. In their eyes its the party that stands for self-reliant hard work reaping the good life.

As for the Democratic Party, they see that as the party of handouts to people who have not (as one of my friends says) "hustled" and made due effort. "It's not right!" Also they see accepting anything from government as a road to dependence upon government and tyranny. They even oppose legislating a living wage because that's government interference of the American Dream.

Since this ethos is written into their personal identities facts and reasons will not, can not budge them. And even if the policies of the Party of Trump bankrupts them, they will find a way to blame the Godless Liberals.
Pretty much sums it up. They disdain 'handouts' ...until they need them. Have we seen any of these farmers hit hard by the tariffs turning down the 'handouts' from Trump now?
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:17 PM   #308
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I COULD be feeling sorry for the Trump supporters here who've been very silent during Sharpiegate, but I'm not.
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:20 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Yes. I have a friend who was secular in nature back when we were in college. Since he's become religious. And he supports the Party of Trump for the sake of "Religious Liberty" (Meaning that Seventh-day Adventist parochial schools should have the right to dismiss teachers that don't tow the line on Creationism and abortion, or are LGBTQ+). The Party of Trump has become the friendly go to for such people. And it's even becoming the party of vaccine "choice."

Remember "Liberals want to tell you how to live in your own home, raise your own children, and worry over two trash cans instead of one.'
But Conservatives want to tell you who you can marry, who can adopt children, and worry over 'the war on Christmas' and prayer in school.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:27 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Conservatives tend to be less receptive to change, and more likely to cleave to religion and identify with those who claim (not even demonstrate) a religious foundation.
Yes, and we can have some sympathy for them because these tendencies are not under conscious control. It's not their fault that they were born with a conservative brain.

The people I have the least sympathy for are those who cynically support Trump to keep their party in power, and don't care what damage he does so long as they get their pork (money, policies, bigotry, general chaos etc.). Why should they get any sympathy? After all they are getting what they want!

And then there are those who whose primary reason for sticking with Trump is their visceral hatred of anything remotely liberal. They chose Trump because even mainstream Republicans weren't 'good' enough for them, and now must defend him at all costs because it's their worldview that's on the line. Do these people deserve sympathy? I guess so, since they obviously have mental issues that they can't control. But like terrorists and serial rapists, it's hard to have sympathy for someone with such a toxic mind.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:37 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I'm not going to say that something bad should happen to them. But if it does, and it's the result of Trump, I have no sympathy for them. Fug 'em.
I don't care. If all Trump supporters fled to Russia, we could replace them with immigrants who would be better Americans. I laugh when I see the video of Trump Trash chanting "you will not replace us" at Charlottesville. Why would we want to replace Trump Trash? They aren't valuable as human beings. We'd rather get better Americans who are immigrants than be stuck with their kind.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:05 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pretty much sums it up. They disdain 'handouts' ...until they need them. Have we seen any of these farmers hit hard by the tariffs turning down the 'handouts' from Trump now?
I know a guy who disdained Food Stamps till he needed them. And when he no longer needed the program, he went right back to cursing their existence.

And then there was Ayn Rand who called Social Security Communism, till she found the personal advantage of it. And even then it was still an evil.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:51 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I know a guy who disdained Food Stamps till he needed them. And when he no longer needed the program, he went right back to cursing their existence.

And then there was Ayn Rand who called Social Security Communism, till she found the personal advantage of it. And even then it was still an evil.
I don't see taking advantage of a program you despise as hypocrisy. I'm no fan of Rand, but there's no contradiction in saying the government shouldn't provide a benefit that you enjoy. In fact, her ethical code would require her to take social security even though her political philosophy says that social security should not be a government program.

The nameless guy's position is more plausibly hypocrisy or, charitably, self-delusion.
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Old 8th September 2019, 07:32 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But Conservatives want to tell you who you can marry, who can adopt children, and worry over 'the war on Christmas' and prayer in school.
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Old 8th September 2019, 07:35 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't see taking advantage of a program you despise as hypocrisy. I'm no fan of Rand, but there's no contradiction in saying the government shouldn't provide a benefit that you enjoy. In fact, her ethical code would require her to take social security even though her political philosophy says that social security should not be a government program.

The nameless guy's position is more plausibly hypocrisy or, charitably, self-delusion.
I think I'll give unnamed the same umbrella you gave Rand.
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Old 8th September 2019, 07:51 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I think I'll give unnamed the same umbrella you gave Rand.
Part of Rand's moral code was just "Screw other people, only selfishness is a virtue, and altruism is evil."

I think that's a key part of what makes her taking SS not exactly hypocrisy.
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Old 9th September 2019, 01:12 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pretty much sums it up. They disdain 'handouts' ...until they need them. Have we seen any of these farmers hit hard by the tariffs turning down the 'handouts' from Trump now?
They disdain handouts for black and brown people.

It's a racism thing, like so much that's wrong in the US.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:23 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Part of Rand's moral code was just "Screw other people, only selfishness is a virtue, and altruism is evil."

I think that's a key part of what makes her taking SS not exactly hypocrisy.
Yes. It makes taking S.S. while cursing it a virtue.
She showed the way to "drain the swamp," while dumping more toxic crap into it.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:26 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
They disdain handouts for black and brown people.

It's a racism thing, like so much that's wrong in the US.
This too. A lot!
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:28 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Most still see the Republican Party as the party representing the American dream of rags to riches or at least rags to Nordstroms. In their eyes its the party that stands for self-reliant hard work reaping the good life.

As for the Democratic Party, they see that as the party of handouts to people who have not (as one of my friends says) "hustled" and made due effort. "It's not right!" Also they see accepting anything from government as a road to dependence upon government and tyranny. They even oppose legislating a living wage because that's government interference of the American Dream.

There was a science fiction novel I read, by a very right-wing author. On the planet in the story, all of the people in the country were good, decent, hard working Conservative farmers, whose efforts kept the planet alive. All of the people in the cities were lazy, ignorant Liberals who depended on government handouts to survive and kept taking more and more from the farmers. Throw in that the Liberal government was actively keeping the people ignorant and dependent to keep their hold on power.


Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
I know a guy who disdained Food Stamps till he needed them. And when he no longer needed the program, he went right back to cursing their existence.

Actor Craig T. Nelson is somewhat (in)famous for appearing on Fox News and criticizing public assistance programs, stating "I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No."
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