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Old 17th March 2019, 12:31 AM   #41
Craig4
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Y'all just can't let the witch die can you? You don't think Trump is being investigated enough, is that the point?

Just another ISF circle-jerk thread. "Hey look at me, I think just like you guys! Hmmm let's see oh I got one - Trump is orange! Can I join the club now too?"

No discussion, let's just make a list! Yayeee. It's a bit silly.
That thing infesting the Whitehouse will have been investigated enough when it and its spawn are in prison.
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Old 30th August 2019, 06:38 PM   #42
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Time to resurrect this thread, with yet another possible Trump security breach...

So, Iran had a rocket that was supposed to launch a satellite into space. Something went wrong, and the rocked exploded on the launch pad. Trump, ever the man child, taunted them on Twitter, claiming the U.S. had nothing to do with the explosion, and saying 'good luck' in finding out what happened.

The problem is... he also posted a very highly detailed satellite photo of the launch pad, that was higher resolution than would normally be available (suggesting the picture had a military origin). Its unknown whether the image was classified or not, but even if it was cleared for release, its certainly revealing the abilities of American image gathering information (something that the government should want to keep secret.)

From: https://www.npr.org/2019/08/30/75599...-image-of-iran
Some of the highest-resolution imagery available commercially comes from the company Maxar....But the image shown in the president's tweet appears to be of far better quality, says Ankit Panda, an adjunct senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, who specializes in analyzing satellite imagery.
...
"These are closely held national secrets," Panda adds. "We don't even share a lot of this kind of imagery with our closest allies." In tweeting it out to the world, Trump is letting Iran know exactly what the U.S. is capable of.
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Old 30th August 2019, 11:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Time to resurrect this thread, with yet another possible Trump security breach...

So, Iran had a rocket that was supposed to launch a satellite into space. Something went wrong, and the rocked exploded on the launch pad. Trump, ever the man child, taunted them on Twitter, claiming the U.S. had nothing to do with the explosion, and saying 'good luck' in finding out what happened.

The problem is... he also posted a very highly detailed satellite photo of the launch pad, that was higher resolution than would normally be available (suggesting the picture had a military origin). Its unknown whether the image was classified or not, but even if it was cleared for release, its certainly revealing the abilities of American image gathering information (something that the government should want to keep secret.)

From: https://www.npr.org/2019/08/30/75599...-image-of-iran
Some of the highest-resolution imagery available commercially comes from the company Maxar....But the image shown in the president's tweet appears to be of far better quality, says Ankit Panda, an adjunct senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, who specializes in analyzing satellite imagery.
...
"These are closely held national secrets," Panda adds. "We don't even share a lot of this kind of imagery with our closest allies." In tweeting it out to the world, Trump is letting Iran know exactly what the U.S. is capable of.
I think it's been mentioned in several other security-related threads but doesn't President Trump have the power and authority to declassify anything he chooses ? If that's the case then there's no legal wrongdoing here.

As regards the inadvisability of tweeting such images, I'm pretty sure that Iran knows that its facilities are under satellite surveillance and the resolution of this image will come as no surprise to them whatsoever.

President Trump may behave like an impulsive child, and in this case (like so many others) he appears to have done so but IMO the actual damage is zero or very close to it.
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Old 31st August 2019, 12:41 AM   #44
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A US official is reported to have confirmed that the image came from a classified intelligence briefing
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Old 1st September 2019, 09:19 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think it's been mentioned in several other security-related threads but doesn't President Trump have the power and authority to declassify anything he chooses ? If that's the case then there's no legal wrongdoing here.

As regards the inadvisability of tweeting such images, I'm pretty sure that Iran knows that its facilities are under satellite surveillance and the resolution of this image will come as no surprise to them whatsoever.

President Trump may behave like an impulsive child, and in this case (like so many others) he appears to have done so but IMO the actual damage is zero or very close to it.
The point is that you never show the full capabilities of your military/intelligence capabilities unless absolutely necessary. It may not be criminal for a president to do so, but it's incredibly stupid, especially for the purpose of doing a Nelson Muntz impression.
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Old 1st September 2019, 09:41 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The thing that many people forget is that Congress has a DUTY to the American people - the people who elected them, not to let this slide. They each swore an oath to uphold the the Constitution of the United States. ...
I think about this every damn day.
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Old 5th September 2019, 11:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The point is that you never show the full capabilities of your military/intelligence capabilities unless absolutely necessary. It may not be criminal for a president to do so, but it's incredibly stupid, especially for the purpose of doing a Nelson Muntz impression.
You act as if our intelligence capabilities could ever be used for a higher purpose.
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Old 5th September 2019, 12:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think it's been mentioned in several other security-related threads but doesn't President Trump have the power and authority to declassify anything he chooses ? If that's the case then there's no legal wrongdoing here.
The president does have the ability to declassify material. But, he didn't exactly do that here.... as far as we can see, he revealed/distributed classified information, without going through the proper process to actually declassify it.

Proper 'declassification' involves more than just "here you go... look at the secret stuff!"

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-anything-an/

Quote:
As regards the inadvisability of tweeting such images, I'm pretty sure that Iran knows that its facilities are under satellite surveillance and the resolution of this image will come as no surprise to them whatsoever.
As other posters have stated... never give your enemies any information about your capabilities, without a good reason.
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Old 5th September 2019, 01:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The president does have the ability to declassify material. But, he didn't exactly do that here.... as far as we can see, he revealed/distributed classified information, without going through the proper process to actually declassify it.

Proper 'declassification' involves more than just "here you go... look at the secret stuff!"

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...y-anything-an/


As other posters have stated... never give your enemies any information about your capabilities, without a good reason.
To my eye, the photo doesn't look to be all that much better resolution than the best Google Earth images. I have to wonder if Trump has revealed that our spy satellites aren't quite as powerful as urban legend has it (i.e. able to read licence plates).
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Old 5th September 2019, 03:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
To my eye, the photo doesn't look to be all that much better resolution than the best Google Earth images. I have to wonder if Trump has revealed that our spy satellites aren't quite as powerful as urban legend has it (i.e. able to read licence plates).
It's not better. But Google Earth synthesizes many different sources, including aerial photos. The nice detail you see in it over cities is due to cameras on airplanes, not satellites.

The tweeted photo was initially assumed by several to be taken instead from a plane/drone (penetrating their airspace) because the detail was higher than some thought possible from a satellite. It was the fact that the time/position of the image could be determined and this closely matched the path of a known US satellite that shifted consensus.
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Old 5th September 2019, 07:24 PM   #51
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I really keep thinking this thread should be titled "tRump's Insecurity Issues" because they're so unsurprisingly related.
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Old 6th September 2019, 04:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
To my eye, the photo doesn't look to be all that much better resolution than the best Google Earth images.
Some experts might disagree with you...

From: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/75803...oto-yep-he-can
...it was the photo that left Hanham, a satellite imagery expert, gobsmacked....
Hanham, deputy director of the Open Nuclear Network in Vienna, says she has seen lots of images over the years but never anything like this. "It was so crystal clear and high-resolution that I did not believe it could have come from a satellite," she says.


The article also points out another issue: It gives Iran an idea of what satellite that was used and would help them avoid being watched in the future.

...Iran will be able to learn from the image. A group of independent satellite spotters says it has already determined which U.S. satellite took the picture....Now that the satellite has been pinpointed, Aftergood worries that Iran can evade it. For example, he says, in the runup to an Indian nuclear weapons test in 1998, India tracked U.S. satellites and made sure not to move any major equipment while they were overhead.
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Old 6th September 2019, 05:34 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Some experts might disagree with you...

From: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/75803...oto-yep-he-can
...it was the photo that left Hanham, a satellite imagery expert, gobsmacked....
Hanham, deputy director of the Open Nuclear Network in Vienna, says she has seen lots of images over the years but never anything like this. "It was so crystal clear and high-resolution that I did not believe it could have come from a satellite," she says.


The article also points out another issue: It gives Iran an idea of what satellite that was used and would help them avoid being watched in the future.

...Iran will be able to learn from the image. A group of independent satellite spotters says it has already determined which U.S. satellite took the picture....Now that the satellite has been pinpointed, Aftergood worries that Iran can evade it. For example, he says, in the runup to an Indian nuclear weapons test in 1998, India tracked U.S. satellites and made sure not to move any major equipment while they were overhead.
Interesting. Looking around, I see that the first version of the image I had seen was not the best quality. Which reminds me: Has it been determined if Trump tweeted the original image or if he took a phone picture of a briefing slide? That speculation was based on the white spot in the middle, which appears similar to a reflection of a flash, but looking at a better quality version, I have to doubt it -- one reason being that I doubt that Trump would have taken the trouble of cropping a phone picture.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:46 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Interesting. Looking around, I see that the first version of the image I had seen was not the best quality. Which reminds me: Has it been determined if Trump tweeted the original image or if he took a phone picture of a briefing slide? That speculation was based on the white spot in the middle, which appears similar to a reflection of a flash, but looking at a better quality version, I have to doubt it -- one reason being that I doubt that Trump would have taken the trouble of cropping a phone picture.
There was a shadow of a person in the picture so you could see that it was a person standing over the picture taking a photo of it
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:52 AM   #55
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Not a specific security breech, but there is this:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/polit...ted/index.html
In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government...A person directly involved in the discussions said that the removal of the Russian was driven, in part, by concerns that President Donald Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source as a spy.

But, but... her emails!
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Old 9th September 2019, 09:11 AM   #56
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The only way Trump was ever to get any level of Security Clearance was to get elected President.
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Old 9th September 2019, 12:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
To my eye, the photo doesn't look to be all that much better resolution than the best Google Earth images. I have to wonder if Trump has revealed that our spy satellites aren't quite as powerful as urban legend has it (i.e. able to read licence plates).
It’s way better resolution than the actual Google Earth image. 35.234722, 53.920833 Is the coordinates if you want to see for yourself.
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Old 9th September 2019, 12:54 PM   #58
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Bit off topic, but I was listening to a sound bite of Trump talking to reporters on the radio earlier.

Has anyone else ever wondered presidents don't start the helicopter after they have finished answering questions, or answer questions in a building and then walk out to the running helicopter?

Or is it a trying to create a impression of how important they are and how they always have to be some where?

It seems to be every time you hear them they are talking on the outskirts of a hurricane
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:21 PM   #59
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The helicopter noise is the only thing that keeps me from having to buy a new TV every week. His voice without interference would cause me to throw TVs through the window.

PS - And new windows are also expensive.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
The helicopter noise is the only thing that keeps me from having to buy a new TV every week. His voice without interference would cause me to throw TVs through the window.

PS - And new windows are also expensive.
I've tried putting the TV on mute when he's on. That only works as long as I don't actually look at the TV. I've found that just watching his smarmy face without the distraction of his whiny voice has its own problems: it makes me notice his little, itty bitty mouth, his raccoon eyes, his fake orange tan, and his comb over even more. Ew. Just ew.
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Old 9th September 2019, 07:06 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not a specific security breech, but there is this:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/09/polit...ted/index.html
In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government...A person directly involved in the discussions said that the removal of the Russian was driven, in part, by concerns that President Donald Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source as a spy.

But, but... her emails!

One is sneaky, one is an idiot.
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Old 9th September 2019, 07:44 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
One is sneaky, one is an idiot.
Sneaky about what?
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:29 PM   #63
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Intelligence officials rejected the claim it was Trump and said instead the agent was getting too much media exposure.
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:38 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Intelligence officials rejected the claim it was Trump and said instead the agent was getting too much media exposure.
Uh huh, and NOAA officials said Trump was right about Dorian's path, and Barr said the summary of the Mueller report was "no collusion, no obstruction." If these intelligence officials weren't worried about Donald Trump's disclosures of classified information, then they should be fired for incompetence. The Trump administration has zero credibility. #MAGA
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:33 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Intelligence officials rejected the claim it was Trump and said instead the agent was getting too much media exposure.
How would the media find out about the agent?

Of course it was about Trump.

If I were an agent working undercover in a foreign power for the USA, I'd be ******** my pants right now. In fact, if I was an agent working for any of the Five Eyes countries, ditto.

This is why the satellite photo tweet is so bad. It's not that it leaks US capabilities to its enemies. They probably already know what US spy satellites are capable of (in fact it seems like half the internet knows US spy satellite capabilities to judge from conversations on various forums and blogs).

The real problem is that this is prima facie evidence that the US intelligence agencies cannot protect top secret information. Their boss walked into a secret briefing, took a cell phone photo of some intelligence material, Tweeted it and nobody was able to stop him.

The other Five Eyes countries are going to stop sharing information with the USA in order to prevent the Tub of Lard in Chief from compromising their sources. This is catastrophic.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:06 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
How would the media find out about the agent?

Of course it was about Trump.

If I were an agent working undercover in a foreign power for the USA, I'd be ******** my pants right now. In fact, if I was an agent working for any of the Five Eyes countries, ditto.

This is why the satellite photo tweet is so bad. It's not that it leaks US capabilities to its enemies. They probably already know what US spy satellites are capable of (in fact it seems like half the internet knows US spy satellite capabilities to judge from conversations on various forums and blogs).

The real problem is that this is prima facie evidence that the US intelligence agencies cannot protect top secret information. Their boss walked into a secret briefing, took a cell phone photo of some intelligence material, Tweeted it and nobody was able to stop him.

The other Five Eyes countries are going to stop sharing information with the USA in order to prevent the Tub of Lard in Chief from compromising their sources. This is catastrophic.
The NYT reports a different version in which he was spirited away after providing info about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:14 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've tried putting the TV on mute when he's on. That only works as long as I don't actually look at the TV. I've found that just watching his smarmy face without the distraction of his whiny voice has its own problems: it makes me notice his little, itty bitty mouth, his raccoon eyes, his fake orange tan, and his comb over even more. Ew. Just ew.
You could use the Elvis Presley method instead.

He watched TV in the basement so when he wanted to throw a TV out the window, he shot it instead.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The NYT reports a different version in which he was spirited away after providing info about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
Far as I understand it, the CIA wanted to extract him at that point, but he chose not to leave Russia since he felt he was safe. He was extracted shortly after the Trump/Russia meeting (forget the name of the visiting dignitary).

Whether he was extracted because of Trump's behavior at that time is not entirely clear, near as I can figger.
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:56 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Far as I understand it, the CIA wanted to extract him at that point, but he chose not to leave Russia since he felt he was safe. He was extracted shortly after the Trump/Russia meeting (forget the name of the visiting dignitary).

Whether he was extracted because of Trump's behavior at that time is not entirely clear, near as I can figger.
Since the debasement of the presidency, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of foreign agents asked their handlers some hard questions about who gets to know their names.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:49 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Far as I understand it, the CIA wanted to extract him at that point, but he chose not to leave Russia since he felt he was safe. He was extracted shortly after the Trump/Russia meeting (forget the name of the visiting dignitary).

Whether he was extracted because of Trump's behavior at that time is not entirely clear, near as I can figger.
No I think it was he was supposed to be extracted before 2017 or at least before it was carried out later in the year and refused because he felt safe.

Then he was extracted.

There would have been hard questions about how U.S. intelligence managed to know so much about the Russian special operation after it hit the airwaves. Risky.
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:48 AM   #71
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Ok, another possible security issue... One that the Trump administration wasn't necessarily responsible for, but one where he didn't necessarily follow up properly:

From: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...evices-1491351
The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House...But unlike most other occasions when flagrant incidents of foreign spying have been discovered on American soil, the Trump administration did not rebuke the Israeli government.
...
The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information.


Such a weird relationship between the Trump and Israel. Trump 'burns' an Israeli intelligence source by blabbing to the Russians, but then helps Israel by ending the Iran agreement and moving the U.S. embassy. Israel supposedly adores Trump but then try to spy on him. And when their plan is discovered, Trump does... nothing

Its almost like Trump is being manipulated by a foreign power.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:50 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ok, another possible security issue... One that the Trump administration wasn't necessarily responsible for, but one where he didn't necessarily follow up properly:

From: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...evices-1491351
The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House...But unlike most other occasions when flagrant incidents of foreign spying have been discovered on American soil, the Trump administration did not rebuke the Israeli government.
...
The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information.


Such a weird relationship between the Trump and Israel. Trump 'burns' an Israeli intelligence source by blabbing to the Russians, but then helps Israel by ending the Iran agreement and moving the U.S. embassy. Israel supposedly adores Trump but then try to spy on him. And when their plan is discovered, Trump does... nothing

Its almost like Trump is being manipulated by a foreign power.
It's more that he doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Its almost like Trump is being manipulated by a foreign power.
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
It's more that he doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
Why not both?
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Old 13th September 2019, 01:10 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Since the debasement of the presidency, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of foreign agents asked their handlers some hard questions about who gets to know their names.
I don’t think it is going to be the names. After all, no one would give Trump the names of agents. And even if they did, he wouldn’t remember them. I think it is more a matter of they’ll show Trump a stolen blueprint or photo and say they got it from a high-level mole in some country’s defense ministry. That’s the kind of thing that Trump could prevent himself about bragging about. And any diplomat worth his salt would simply respond with “You’re bluffing, Mr. President. Give me a reason to believe you.” Because the president has the emotional maturity that wavers between age 2 and age 7, he would immediately name the stolen document, which would give the foreign country more specific places to look for the spy.
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Old Yesterday, 02:13 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The NYT reports a different version in which he was spirited away after providing info about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.
If that’s true, the rest of my post still stands. The satellite photo leak shows that the President of the United States cannot be trusted to keep secret information secret. This means that the other Five Eyes nations will be reluctant to share intel with the USA and the USA will be reluctant to let its own president see the intel he needs to make good decisions.

People may die because of what Trump did.
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Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
If that’s true, the rest of my post still stands. The satellite photo leak shows that the President of the United States cannot be trusted to keep secret information secret. This means that the other Five Eyes nations will be reluctant to share intel with the USA and the USA will be reluctant to let its own president see the intel he needs to make good decisions.

People may die because of what Trump did.
This assumes he would actually USE intel to make good decisions. His decisions come from his gut, remember?
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Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Y'all just can't let the witch die can you? You don't think Trump is being investigated enough, is that the point?
Given that any ordinary person who knowingly gave that sort of high-level secrets to enemy states would spend a good, long time in prison, this should be considered a severe problem.

(And I wouldn't be at all shocked if those Israeli spy cells were placed around DC specifically in response to Dolt 45's giving up Israeli classified info to Russia, either - Although in truth, Israel isn't the most trustworthy ally...)
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM   #78
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I don’t think it is going to be the names. After all, no one would give Trump the names of agents. And even if they did, he wouldn’t remember them. I think it is more a matter of they’ll show Trump a stolen blueprint or photo and say they got it from a high-level mole in some country’s defense ministry. That’s the kind of thing that Trump could prevent himself about bragging about. And any diplomat worth his salt would simply respond with “You’re bluffing, Mr. President. Give me a reason to believe you.” Because the president has the emotional maturity that wavers between age 2 and age 7, he would immediately name the stolen document, which would give the foreign country more specific places to look for the spy.
They would all be called "James Spy".

And Trump could almost certainly be talked into revealing stuff with ridiculous ease. And then not even realise he had been "spooked".

The secret document is in that drawer, isn't it, Mr Trump.

No, you're wrong! It's in that drawer, the one without the lock.

So it is, Mr Trump. Good thing too! We would never have found it.

Of course not! I'm very secure!
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