ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 25th August 2019, 09:54 AM   #1
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,789
NK cell donation ?

Natural Killer cell donation for the sake of a cancer patient relative. Anybody here know the procedure? Looks like they start with a plasma extraction, but do they put the remains of the plasma back in?

And would diabetes, kidneys, BP(meds) preclude a donor?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 03:02 AM   #2
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,341
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Natural Killer cell donation for the sake of a cancer patient relative. Anybody here know the procedure? Looks like they start with a plasma extraction, but do they put the remains of the plasma back in?
Yes. Donating blood cells (and plasma) is a common medical procedure, the blood is drawn in a continuous system, the cells separated from plasma, the relevant cell layer is removed and the rest of the blood put back into patient.

It all sounds scary, but it is not. You would be donating a buffy coat:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ion-scheme.png

The blood is commonly processed after donation, you almost never recieve a donation of full blood. It is usually erithrocytes plus saline, we use plasma for other patients who need fresh frozen plasma, such as hemophiliacs. The reason why your blood would be put back in you is because there are very few leukocytes in blood as compared to other fractions and only a few percent of them would be NK cells.

This is done through apheresis:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...FPP-plasma.png

Quote:
And would diabetes, kidneys, BP(meds) preclude a donor?
Probably not, but ask your doctor all the same.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه

Last edited by McHrozni; 26th August 2019 at 03:04 AM.
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:06 AM   #3
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,789
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Yes. Donating blood cells (and plasma) is a common medical procedure, the blood is drawn in a continuous system, the cells separated from plasma, the relevant cell layer is removed and the rest of the blood put back into patient.

It all sounds scary, but it is not. You would be donating a buffy coat:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ion-scheme.png

The blood is commonly processed after donation, you almost never recieve a donation of full blood. It is usually erithrocytes plus saline, we use plasma for other patients who need fresh frozen plasma, such as hemophiliacs. The reason why your blood would be put back in you is because there are very few leukocytes in blood as compared to other fractions and only a few percent of them would be NK cells.

This is done through apheresis:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...FPP-plasma.png



Probably not, but ask your doctor all the same.

McHrozni
Ah, the whole family has given blood. Dad was a WWII Vet, knew the value and ease.

The question was "do they keep the plasma out to separate the NKs later, or do they separate the plasma and put it back in while the donor is on the table?" Sounds like the separation step is probably too complex to do at the phlebotomist's.

But found out that my sibs have already asked the oncologist about me, he says I'm not a good choice due to my health issues. Bro has 4 other first degree relatives. Two are local, two would fly in if needed. Not likely they would need me, but I already emailed my Doc. But Bro is getting down to life-or-death, it's a no-brainer that I would step up.

Apparently even random NKs will help, but the closer the match the better. First step is a gene test for all the potential donors.

I'm not sure if they are concerned about a lowered plasma level causing me grief, or that i may get anxious on the table and cause THEM grief. But I'm pretty stoical, even had a knee replaced without sedation. Local and spinal yes, but I was awake and could FEEL the bone saws and hammers in my ears, more than hear them.

eta: Apparently the DNA study is to check the HLA-DRB1 gene in particular. That is after a rough match of histocomaotaibility HLA-a,b,&c. The HLA-DRB1 match is to avoid Sarcoidosis. Genes is tuff.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.

Last edited by casebro; 26th August 2019 at 06:13 AM.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:35 AM   #4
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,735
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Ah, the whole family has given blood. Dad was a WWII Vet, knew the value and ease.

The question was "do they keep the plasma out to separate the NKs later, or do they separate the plasma and put it back in while the donor is on the table?" Sounds like the separation step is probably too complex to do at the phlebotomist's.

But found out that my sibs have already asked the oncologist about me, he says I'm not a good choice due to my health issues. Bro has 4 other first degree relatives. Two are local, two would fly in if needed. Not likely they would need me, but I already emailed my Doc. But Bro is getting down to life-or-death, it's a no-brainer that I would step up.

Apparently even random NKs will help, but the closer the match the better. First step is a gene test for all the potential donors.

I'm not sure if they are concerned about a lowered plasma level causing me grief, or that i may get anxious on the table and cause THEM grief. But I'm pretty stoical, even had a knee replaced without sedation. Local and spinal yes, but I was awake and could FEEL the bone saws and hammers in my ears, more than hear them.

eta: Apparently the DNA study is to check the HLA-DRB1 gene in particular. That is after a rough match of histocomaotaibility HLA-a,b,&c. The HLA-DRB1 match is to avoid Sarcoidosis. Genes is tuff.
Although the machine itself is a bit complex, the donor's role is very simple and pretty much pain free. They put iv's in the donor, the needle pricks being the only things that might conceivably be considered painful. Then they collect the cells and return the plasma to the donor simultaneously as they sit in a chair for 6 to 8 hours. The donor doesn't feel anything except boredom. They never lack for plasma.

I am vey sorry to hear of your brother's situation; I wish him the best!

Last edited by Giordano; 26th August 2019 at 06:36 AM.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:57 AM   #5
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 24,457
For some time I gave plasma on a regular basis as part of a program for a patient with hemophilia. A patient would have several matched donors, so each would give plasma once a month, and the patient would get plasma once a week. That was a while ago, and it may have changed some, but it was a pretty simple procedure from the donor's point of view. They extract the blood, take the needed plasma, and put the rest back. It's the same with platelets except they take the platelets and give the rest back. The machine used a centrifuge to separate components. I imagine that if the cells required can be readily separated in the machine, they'll send the plasma right back, but otherwise they'll keep the plasma. If you're healthy you have enough. When I went, they had video so I'd get to see a movie, and they'd serve coffee and cookies afterward. They'd throw a little party when one did it 50 times, but alas, I think my patient died or something, and they stopped calling at 49!
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:10 AM   #6
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,912
Most of the important stuff has been said; it's a pretty pain-free process. I've donated whole blood, plasma and bone marrow (the old way). Blood and plasma is simple.
Unfortunately there is no longer restorative Guinness provided...
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:48 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.