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Old 6th September 2019, 07:15 AM   #81
pittsburghjoe
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You and I both know Rule 4 doesn't apply to my own F'N content.
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Old 6th September 2019, 07:19 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
You and I both know Rule 4 doesn't apply to my own F'N content.
1. You don't know what I know.
2. Rule 4 does not have an exception for your own content elsewhere. Further, if you have your content elsewhere, Rule 4 would have you link to it, not repeat it here.
3. Quit whining.
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Old 6th September 2019, 08:29 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
You and I both know Rule 4 doesn't apply to my own F'N content.
Yes, it does.

Let me give you a little advice.

The public notices section in Forum Management is full of ex-members that didn't understand that they didn't own the forum and make the rules.

The mods here have a certain amount of tolerance but if you believe that you're going to make the rules you will be shown the door.
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Old 6th September 2019, 11:13 AM   #84
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Don't let these guys haze you, pbjoe. Just keep cranking your theory, and eventually it'll start.

Crank crank crank.
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Old 6th September 2019, 04:19 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Don't let these guys haze you, pbjoe. Just keep cranking your theory, and eventually it'll start.

Crank crank crank.
Should check for side fumbling in the turbo encabulator if it still won’t start.
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Old 6th September 2019, 04:54 PM   #86
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I fought a duel with duality ... and duality won.


Oh, wait a minute, duality didn't win. They were caught using an additional player in a single player game and thrown out.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:00 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
I'm boycotting answers until my OP is reinstated.
Don't do that! You'll kill this thread waiting.
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Old 6th September 2019, 06:02 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I fought a duel with duality ... and duality won.


Oh, wait a minute, duality didn't win. They were caught using an additional player in a single player game and thrown out.
Those dirty double-crossers! I'd think twice about playing again, unless it was for double or nothing. Who knows though -- third time's the charm!
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Old 6th September 2019, 08:45 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
The Observer Effect You can be certain that the particle in question will be physical if you place anything that will acknowledge its existence while it propagates on its path.
You are making the same mistake as all the others - assuming that something is 'physical' if it can be 'observed'.

But you are right that Duality isn't a thing anymore, because it never was. In fact nothing ever was. You see, none of it is real because we are all in The Matrix.

How do I know? Even the most powerful computer imaginable cannot simulate an infinite Universe with infinite resolution, for the simple reason that it would need more data and processing power than is in the Universe. So the simulation cannot be perfect. At very small scales the algorithms will produce anomalous results, like magnifying an image until you can see the individual pixels. And this is what we observe. What scientists call 'Quantum weirdness' is actually just the simulation's limited resolution.

If only scientists could get past their fixation with things having to be 'physical', they would see the truth - and might actually learn something about this simulation we live in. The clues are there, they just have to look at them in the right way.

We may never figure it all out, but one thing's for sure - to be as detailed and convincing as it is, the computer that runs The Matrix must be incredibly powerful - and the being that programmed it must have incredible intellect. Or perhaps they are one and the same, a robot with a brain the size of a planet - imagining our planet and everyone who lives on it. If we ever discover that this is indeed the case, will we call it God?
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:49 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
You and I both know Rule 4 doesn't apply to my own F'N content.
That is wrong, pittsburghjoe. Rule 4 has 2 parts.
  1. You will not post "copyrighted" material in its entirety and
  2. do not post large amounts of material available from other sites.
The first part is the obviously illegal act of violating copyright by copying it in its entirety.
The second part is the practical matter of not having enormous posts clogging up a thread and having to be hosted by the forum. If someone writes a book online then having that book as a post is impractical, especially when hyperlinks exist. That is the rule you broke in the OP as the admin told you:
Quote:
"<SNIP> for rule 4
Please do not post material that is available elsewhere.

See here, for example.
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:20 PM   #91
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Oh, I wrote one too many paragraphs, that makes total sense.
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Old 8th September 2019, 03:46 PM   #92
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I wonder if the natural divide between the two realms can be explained more than just abbe diffraction limit.
Maybe there is an information limit that a single object can contain that is impossible to be represented as unobserved quantum waves.
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Old 8th September 2019, 03:58 PM   #93
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The delayed choice quantum eraser reveals that a quantum wave knows if it's state will be requested during its path/life. It doesn't care about the final panel ..only the journey. It also shows that it doesn't care about time.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:21 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
I wonder ...
What you wonder about is not science. Repeating ignorance is just bad: There is no "abbe diffraction limit of matter", pittsburghjoe.

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th September 2019 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:34 PM   #95
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Thumbs down Repeats ignorance and/or fantasies about the delayed choice quantum eraser

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
The delayed choice quantum eraser reveals ....
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Repeats ignorance and/or fantasies about the delayed choice quantum eraser.

What the delayed choice quantum eraser reveals is that delayed-choice experiments show that measurements of the state of photons in the present can alter events in the past. In your language - the photon definitely cares about your imaginary "final panel" (there are actually several detectors in the experiment).
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:03 PM   #96
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nope, you're wrong
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:10 PM   #97
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The delayed-choice quantum eraser could also show superdeterminism or a many-worlds ontology, ie that no actual choice occurred.
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:16 PM   #98
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Well, if you agreed with anything else I've had to say in this thread, you'd go with my interpretation.
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:18 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
nope, you're wrong
Which of the things that he said was he wrong about? And why do you think he is wrong?
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:24 PM   #100
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Just go with the opposite of whatever he says
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:24 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
nope, you're wrong
What is wrong about
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Repeats ignorance and/or fantasies about the delayed choice quantum eraser.
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:26 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
Well, if you agreed with anything else I've had to say in this thread, you'd go with my interpretation.
I have been asking questions in order to clarify what you are saying, as have others.

You have been avoiding answering these until your poorly stated original OP is reinstated.

Until you are able to explain what you are saying then no-one here is in a position to agree or disagree.
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:29 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
Just go with the opposite of whatever he says
This is pretty much a frank admission that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Someone who did know would be able to be specific about what was wrong and why it was wrong.

People who don't know have to resort to vague evasive statements like the above.
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:33 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
Well, if you agreed with anything else I've had to say in this thread, you'd go with my interpretation.
If you had posts with a coherent theory based on valid physics with supporting evidence we would agree with those posts. You do not so we do not agree.

6 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: What does your theory predict for the single electron double slit experiment?
6 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Quote the single electron double slit experiment part of your original OP.
6 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Where in your theory are quaternions used (citation or quotation needed) [or say you wasted our time with an irrelevant video]?
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Repeats ignorance and/or fantasies about the delayed choice quantum eraser.

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th September 2019 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:35 PM   #105
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I've already explained that the final panel never counts as quantum observation. The particles state while travailing will not change.

The entangled particle only looks to be sending messages to the past because the particle is actually one object. It's notifying itself to be a particle or a wave while it's moving.
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:48 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
I've already explained that the final panel never counts as quantum observation.
What does count as the observation in the double-slit experiment then?
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:54 PM   #107
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Thumbs down Quantum observation non-science - an observation at any place is an observation

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
I've already explained that the final panel never counts as quantum observation.
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Quantum observation non-science - an observation at any place is an observation!

We can detect a particle at any stage in a double slit experiment and that is an observation. Detecting a particle leaving the source is an observation. Detecting which slit a particle goes through is an observation. Detecting a particle at the screen is an observation. We count the detections at the screen as observations because we observe the particles at the screen !
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:56 PM   #108
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The mathematics of the double-slit experiment depend upon the final panel being an observation.

If you are saying that the final panel is not an observation in your theory, please supply your alternative mathematical treatment of the experiment.
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 05:56 PM   #109
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The the quantum object will not swap from waves to physical based on the final screen. What matters is detectors that are able to detect and allow the particle to continue past it.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:05 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
The the quantum object will not swap from waves to physical based on the final screen. What matters is detectors that are able to detect and allow the particle to continue past it.
Be specific. If the final screen is not a detector in your theory, what is a detector in your theory?

What is your definition of "detector" under which the panel which detects the final position of the electron is not a detector?
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:12 PM   #111
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So if I left out the screen with the double slit and just had an electron emitter and a back panel, I fire the electron and see a little spot light up on the back panel.

Under your theory I have not detected the particle, right?

Under your theory that particle remains completely undetected, right?
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:14 PM   #112
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A detector is something that can tell a human that a particle passed by. Spacetime is not assigned to the particle if it knows spacetime is never involved while traveling. That last panel is a tombstone.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:16 PM   #113
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Thumbs down An ignorant "entangled particle" and a signaling fantasy

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
The entangled particle only looks to be sending messages to the past because the particle is actually one object. It's notifying itself to be a particle or a wave while it's moving.
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: An ignorant "entangled particle" and a signaling fantasy.

The point of entangled particles (plural) is that there has to be other particles for the quantum entanglement! It is two particles with their states entangled. A measurement on one affects the state of the other. A "message travelling to the past" fantasy would be between the particles.

Entangled particles are used to get the eraser part of the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment. Entanglement is not needed for Wheeler's delayed choice experiment. BTW: The executions of Wheeler's delayed choice experiment are set up so that it is physically impossible for signals to affect the choice.
Jacques, Vincent; et al. (2007). "Experimental Realization of Wheeler's Delayed-Choice Gedanken Experiment". Science. 315 (5814): 966–968. The detector is placed far enough away from the source and delayed decision apparatus that they are space-like separated (no relativistic signal can pass between them).
Quantum erasure with causally disconnected choice by Xiao-song Ma, et. al (my emphasis added)
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:20 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
A detector is something that can tell a human that a particle passed by. Spacetime is not assigned to the particle if it knows spacetime is never involved while traveling. That last panel is a tombstone.
As I said, be specific. In the double-slit experiment, what counts as a detector?

Also, if I just have an electron emitter and a back panel and nothing in between, I fire the electron and see a spot light up on the back panel, then, under your theory that particle has remained entirely undetected, yes?
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:23 PM   #115
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polarizers at the slits are detectors.

You will just get a clump if there isn't a double slit. The waves need the slit in order to interfere with each other.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:26 PM   #116
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Thumbs down Partial ignorance about a detector in physics

Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
A detector is something that can tell a human that a particle passed by.
9 September 2019 pittsburghjoe: Partial ignorance about a detector in physics.

Detectors in physics do not just detect things "passing by". Many stop particles. The obvious examples are human eyes. For thousands of years we have been using our eyes as detectors that stop light. We never see light just passing by us. The invention of photography gave us detectors that tell humans when particles have been stopped.

Detectors that tell humans when particles have passed by measure changes caused by those particles in the detector. For example, measure a change in magnetic field when a charged particle passes by.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:27 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
polarizers at the slits are detectors.

You will just get a clump if there isn't a double slit. The waves need the slit in order to interfere with each other.
So if you have no back panel, only the slits then the particle has been detected, under your theory?

But if you have a back panel but no slits, then the particle is undetected, under your theory?

Do I have that right?
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The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:33 PM   #118
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The double slits only cause fringes. If there isn't polarizers in place, they will remain waves while traveling.

A backpanel with no slits means they were undetected, yes. they were waves while traveling.
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:36 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by pittsburghjoe View Post
The double slits only cause fringes. If there isn't polarizers in place, they will remain waves while traveling.

A backpanel with no slits means they were undetected, yes. they were waves while traveling.
So the particle is undetected when we can observe a spacetime final location for the particle?

And it is detected if we can assign no spacetime location to it (ie the slits but no back panel)?

(Under your theory).
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Old 8th September 2019, 06:39 PM   #120
pittsburghjoe
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I'm not reinventing the double slit here. All I'm saying is that the tombstone doesn't count towards the decision of the particle being a wave or physical while in flight.
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