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Old 11th September 2019, 09:49 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh I wasn't bragging (and I sincerely and without snark apologize if it came across that way) I'm well aware of how lucky and out of the ordinary my situation is.
I know, I'm just grumpy because my chef spilled olive oil on the pool boy and it's taking forever to clean him off. I've been soaping and rinsing all morning, and he's got to get to his Olympic diving tryouts this afternoon. I don't think the good helicopter is fueled up enough to get him there in time!
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Old 11th September 2019, 09:51 AM   #42
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Before we get too far afield, this is from the link in the OP:
Quote:
The impact of the bill extends beyond app-based contractors, as the New York Times notes, many low-wage workers have been pushed from the employment roll into contractor status, including janitors, nail salon workers, and construction workers...[T]he Times reports. “Under the measure, which would go into effect Jan. 1, workers must be designated as employees instead of contractors if a company exerts control over how they perform their tasks or if their work is part of a company’s regular business.”
I worked for a manufacturing company that decided that Packaging Department hourly employees were going to be transitioned to independent contractors. Employees were called together and an announcement was made by someone from HR. Everyone had to sign an agreement or on such-and-such a date they would be terminated. Most of the workers were assembly line workers and were women who were paid a dollar or two more than minimum wage. Almost all agreed; they all had families, they needed money.

They continued to receive a standard weekly pay check --the company continuing to deduct withholding was termed a "service" to make tax filing easier for those workers effected -- and got a W2 by the start of the next year. What they lost was paid sick time, personal days and paid vacations. There was a company healthcare plan, but one that required an expensive monthly co-pay, few of the assembly line workers were enrolled and now as independent contractors they were no longer eligible anyway. There was also a company-administered 401k plan which would also no longer be available to contract employees.

They lost a lot and gained nothing.

Why did the company decide to do this? This came about around 2010 during the recession. We were having cash flow problems and banks had begun refusing to make bridge loans. The company sought investment and got a deal with an investment firm in Boston. The investment firm required a whole laundry list of things from the company in order to agree to make the investment. One of the things they insisted on was transitioning workers from employees to independent contractors where possible.
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Old 11th September 2019, 09:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
That does not sound like best practice. Gartner is a very broad brush and you need to look at ITIL and here we're talking about Incident Management process and Underpinning Contracts to maintain service levels. My wife and I have the entire V2 and 3 manual sets at home. I'm betting the person who negotiated the contract with IBM lacked IT operations experience. I'm also guessing the CIO isn't on the board.


Different places in IBM are more or less difficult to work with. I worked for IBM for 15 years.
Actually, in our case it's HiTRUST certifications and things about separation of duties. But your core point is right; we created a new security team that has zero experience in computer security and little technical skill, and they make decisions based on what they think is needed without really understanding the whys, hows, and wherefores. They make all security related decisions, not only neglecting to seek input form the technical experts but in many cases actively refusing that input, and the upper management (also not as technically skilled as those of us doing the work) goes along with their decisions pretty much without question (or at least without a full understanding of the issues).

It infuriates me because information security is what I did for the Army. We need to improve our security, but the choices we've been making as a company are decidedly sub-optimal, and we can't seem to get that point across to anyone higher up that could influence the decisions. We're basically waiting for the current conditions to cause a major problem so we can point back to all the times we told them it was coming, and maybe get the procedure changed to something more rational.
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Old 11th September 2019, 09:57 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Before we get too far afield, this is from the link in the OP:


I worked for a manufacturing company that decided that Packaging Department hourly employees were going to be transitioned to independent contractors. Employees were called together and an announcement was made by someone from HR. Everyone had to sign an agreement or on such-and-such a date they would be terminated. Most of the workers were assembly line workers and were women who were paid a dollar or two more than minimum wage. Almost all agreed; they all had families, they needed money.

They continued to receive a standard weekly pay check --the company continuing to deduct withholding was termed a "service" to make tax filing easier for those workers effected -- and got a W2 by the start of the next year. What they lost was paid sick time, personal days and paid vacations. There was a company healthcare plan, but one that required an expensive monthly co-pay, few of the assembly line workers were enrolled and now as independent contractors they were no longer eligible anyway. There was also a company-administered 401k plan which would also no longer be available to contract employees.

They lost a lot and gained nothing.

Why did the company decide to do this? This came about around 2010 during the recession. We were having cash flow problems and banks had begun refusing to make bridge loans. The company sought investment and got a deal with an investment firm in Boston. The investment firm required a whole laundry list of things from the company in order to agree to make the investment. One of the things they insisted on was transitioning workers from employees to independent contractors where possible.
It's such short-term thinking! Sure, you save a few bucks screwing over the employees, but in the long run the company would be stronger if it had happy, loyal employees making a career of it. Why is everyone so impatient? A strong company can make money steadily for decades, which is far preferable to a fly-by-night ramshackle operation that could fold tomorrow.
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Old 11th September 2019, 09:59 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's such short-term thinking! Sure, you save a few bucks screwing over the employees, but in the long run the company would be stronger if it had happy, loyal employees making a career of it. Why is everyone so impatient? A strong company can make money steadily for decades, which is far preferable to a fly-by-night ramshackle operation that could fold tomorrow.
But the thing is "Strong Company" is no longer the goal.

The goal is "Start up company, raise as much capital as possible as quickly as possible, bail out before the whole thing collapses, wash, rinse, repeat."

A Strong Company doesn't make (g)me money in the long run. Sure it makes more money in the long run for other people, but who cares about other people?
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I'm no expert, but the contractors we hire are all paid straight out and issued a 1099 form w/ no withholding.

Around here, pretty much all "contractors" work through agencies; independent contractors are rare, at least in the IT industry. No 1099s, as they're essentially employees of the agency, and it's the agency that actually cuts the paychecks, not the de facto employer. That means that all the standard withholding and everything is done just as if the contractor was a full-time employee of the company they're ostensibly working for.

The better contract agencies also offer a minimal set of medical benefits and paid time off (sick days, etc.). There's no obligation for them to do so, but since all the major employers hire predominantly or exclusively from the agencies, there's a bit of competition between them. These benefits are generally optional, and come at the cost of a reduced hourly rate (about 10-15% difference).

One employer, the worst I ever had, used the "exempt salaried employee" trick to avoid paying for overtime. It was a call center, and given the nature of the calls it was fairly frequent that someone would get stuck on a call well past the end of their shift. These were bottom-end, entry-level, 10$ per hour jobs (in 2001). For all practical purposes, these were hourly jobs, with strictly regulated hours, and I mean strictly, we couldn't even take bathroom breaks outside of our scheduled break times. And we did not get sick days at all. But since we were technically salaried we could be forced to work overtime without any additional compensation.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:06 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But the thing is "Strong Company" is no longer the goal.

The goal is "Start up company, raise as much capital as possible as quickly as possible, bail out before the whole thing collapses, wash, rinse, repeat."

A Strong Company doesn't make (g)me money in the long run. Sure it makes more money in the long run for other people, but who cares about other people?
I will never understand other people. Patience is not only among the noblest of the virtues, it is one that yields incredible practical results. Quantifiable, measurable results, especially in financial matters. When a course of action is simultaneously the wisest and kindest only an evil fool does the opposite!
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:15 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I will never understand other people. Patience is not only among the noblest of the virtues, it is one that yields incredible practical results. Quantifiable, meaureable results, especially in financial matters. When a course of action is simultaneously the wisest and kindest only an evil fool does the opposite!

Patience and greed are mutually-incompatible principles. It's the same reason that everyone now insists that a business must meet a minimum yearly growth figure or be considered to be failing. "If you're not growing, you're dying." The old days when you could be considered successful by building a stable business serving a particular long-term market, like so many mom-and-pop shops and cottage industries, are long gone. No more corner supermarket or main street hardware stores. You have to "grow your customer base" and "meet revenue enhancement targets", or you might as well just declare bankruptcy in the eyes of modern capitalists.

Naturally, this has led to many businesses actually failing due to over-extending themselves to meet unrealistic (and unnecessary) goals, increasing exploitation of workers, abusive and unethical outsourcing practices (sweatshops, etc.), and the impetus to drive the aforementioned mom-and-pop shops out of business using predatory pricing, "sweetheart deals" with local governments, and other underhanded practices, in order to eliminate competitors and "gain their market share". Maximizing high short-term profits and "shareholder returns" over long-term stability and sustainable moderate profits.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh I wasn't bragging (and I sincerely and without snark apologize if it came across that way) I'm well aware of how lucky and out of the ordinary my situation is.
That was tough work. Especially if you were in the air Force and got all those on base golfing injuries.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:25 AM   #50
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I never worked as a contractor, and when I was an boss we didn't hire contractors as pretty much everything we did needed full time peeps. But I did have one applicant for an engineering position insist on being a contractor AND being paid in gold.

It was a short interview.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:29 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
For all practical purposes, these were hourly jobs, with strictly regulated hours, and I mean strictly, we couldn't even take bathroom breaks outside of our scheduled break times.
Did they at least provide a bucket?
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:31 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Patience and greed are mutually-incompatible principles. It's the same reason that everyone now insists that a business must meet a minimum yearly growth figure or be considered to be failing. "If you're not growing, you're dying." The old days when you could be considered successful by building a stable business serving a particular long-term market, like so many mom-and-pop shops and cottage industries, are long gone. No more corner supermarket or main street hardware stores. You have to "grow your customer base" and "meet revenue enhancement targets", or you might as well just declare bankruptcy in the eyes of modern capitalists.

Naturally, this has led to many businesses actually failing due to over-extending themselves to meet unrealistic (and unnecessary) goals, increasing exploitation of workers, abusive and unethical outsourcing practices (sweatshops, etc.), and the impetus to drive the aforementioned mom-and-pop shops out of business using predatory pricing, "sweetheart deals" with local governments, and other underhanded practices, in order to eliminate competitors and "gain their market share". Maximizing high short-term profits and "shareholder returns" over long-term stability and sustainable moderate profits.
Amen. It's just insane.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:37 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
One employer, the worst I ever had, used the "exempt salaried employee" trick to avoid paying for overtime. It was a call center, and given the nature of the calls it was fairly frequent that someone would get stuck on a call well past the end of their shift. These were bottom-end, entry-level, 10$ per hour jobs (in 2001). For all practical purposes, these were hourly jobs, with strictly regulated hours, and I mean strictly, we couldn't even take bathroom breaks outside of our scheduled break times. And we did not get sick days at all. But since we were technically salaried we could be forced to work overtime without any additional compensation.

I worked for a call center where half of our hourly pay was our actual salary, and the other half was an "attendance bonus" that you received for showing up on time and working your whole shift. If you were ever late or missed time, you didn't receive the attendance bonus for an amount of time equal to what you had missed, rounded up to the nearest hour. Come back from lunch two minutes late or arrive 10 minutes late in the morning due to a traffic jam? An hour at half pay. Call in sick (with no sick days)? Work at half pay for the entire day when you come back. Heaven help you if you were sick for several days in a row.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I’m reluctant to call it outsourcing, since it creates more work for us than it would take to do it ourselves, but we “outsource” much of our IT to IBM. Once of the many, many, problems is that they hire contract employees to do all the actual work. This means they are there for one or a maximum of two 2-years terms.

What this means is that they don’t really follow any standards when they start because they are all used to doing things their own way, and by they time we have them trained their contracts are up and we start all over again.


Sigh, now that I’ve started on an IT outsourcing rant…


Worse still, even though we pay millions for them to “manage” out hardware/OS/middleware they still bill us for any work we ask them to do. This includes cleaning up all the mistakes these contractors make because they get thrown into our environment with no training or documentation on how they are supposed to do anything. They also have an internal mandate that these contractors maintain billable hours rations well in excess of 100%, meaning for every hour they spend working on our stuff they need to find a way to bill us for 2-4 hours.

Senior management is happy with the situation because they can point to Gartner or similar organizations and say “we are following IT best practices”. The auditors are also happy because their checklists are satisfied. The checklists the auditors depend on conveniently line up 1 to 1 with IBM process even though these processes are either irrelevant to us or so badly implemented they are not useful. (eg when we open a ticket with them they won’t even take a severity 1 designation for it because that triggers a national alert. A Sev-3 ticket may or may not get worked on with 2-4 weeks, anything lower will never be looked at. This means literally everything is Sev-2 but the auditors are still happy because there is a Sev-1 to Sev-5 classification system, just like their checklist demands.)
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Grrr.. reading that made me mad. Same situation here, essentially.
Whoa...neither of your auditors should be happy with such a situation. I assume both follow at least ISO 9001:2015, and that consistently says that corrective actions and the like shall be measured for effectiveness. Off the top of my head, they're not passing any of section 9.1. An audit of the QMS should not pass if there are no metrics to tell if actions are effective for the process, and if there are metrics that are showing actions to be ineffective, it should likewise not pass internal nor third party audits. Are your registrars really ok with that or did they not see it?

EDIT: Ironically one of the first things I told the company I am currently doing work for when I started doing audits for them is that as a contractor I do not qualify as an internal auditor for them. Then I created the graphics and layout for their process maps for IATF 16949...

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I will never understand other people. Patience is not only among the noblest of the virtues, it is one that yields incredible practical results. Quantifiable, measurable results, especially in financial matters. When a course of action is simultaneously the wisest and kindest only an evil fool does the opposite!
American investor and corporate cultures described perfectly.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:40 AM   #55
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I don't think I could stay sane in a job where you had to account for literally every second of your day like that.

I'm hourly salaried but I'm allowed to put "stand by" or "on site" down for my time.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:42 AM   #56
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I worked as independent contractor for a newspaper. Any time there was a discrepancy, it came out of our pay. Our direct manager looking to make some extra money? Suddenly we're charged for an 'unpaid order' of supplies from six months ago. Do we have a receipt showing that we paid for that order? HAHA we still paid again.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:47 AM   #57
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It's like an entire generation of greedy people watched the businessmen character in all those 80s movies and somehow got the moral that it was the eventual burnout that was so awesome about those characters and not the money, fast cars, buckets of cocaine, and super models.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:55 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Did they at least provide a bucket?

In emergencies you could use the toilet; but it counted against you. They operated on a demerit system (without actually calling it that, of course). Take a sick day, you got a certain number of demerits. Leave your desk for any reason outside of scheduled breaks or meetings, demerits. Not be at your desk and in the phone queue precisely at the start of your shift*, or come back from breaks even a few minutes late, demerits. And so on, and so on.

And demerits were banked. Earn a certain number, and you received an automatic black mark on your record (what they called a "counseling statement", no appeals possible (this affected your raises and other benefits, if you had black marks, you didn't get them). If you got a certain number more, then automatic firing, again no appeals possible. Demerits would roll off your account, but only if you went at least three months without accruing any new ones, otherwise they remained and continued to count against you. G-D help you if you had a chronic health problem (one of my colleagues got fired because she had to go to the doctor too many times).

They did have PTO available, but you had to schedule it at least 90 days in advance. I ended up having to miss my uncle's funeral, or risk getting fired. They did allow for time off for such things, "bereavement leave", but only for immediate family members.

Found out a few months after starting that the place was owned and run by Scientologists, which explained all those draconian polices. It was a weird atmosphere, the monthly department meetings were run very much like church services. It was creepy.


*They also practiced hot-desking so they didn't have to pay for enough desks for everyone. Which meant that if the person on the shift before yours got stuck on a long call and could not relinquish your assigned desk to you, you were screwed.
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:56 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Over here we have no employment rights, sick and vacation days are not required to be offered, and pensions haven't been a thing for fifty years except for a couple of outlying fields. Most of us can be fired at any time for any reason (or "no reason", that is specifically spelled out) without notice or any kind of severance.

Our full-time stable employment is more like your contractors. Our contractors are more equivalent to your buskers.
Where do you live, that sounds awful!
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Old 11th September 2019, 10:58 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's like an entire generation of greedy people watched the businessmen character in all those 80s movies and somehow got the moral that it was the eventual burnout that was so awesome about those characters and not the money, fast cars, buckets of cocaine, and super models.

This pretty much sums up the decade, and nearly every decade since the:

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I AGREE
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Where do you live, that sounds awful!
The U.S., in an "at-will employment" state. But at least I'm not tyrannized by the communist evil of unions!
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:02 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Whoa...neither of your auditors should be happy with such a situation. I assume both follow at least ISO 9001:2015, and that consistently says that corrective actions and the like shall be measured for effectiveness. Off the top of my head, they're not passing any of section 9.1. An audit of the QMS should not pass if there are no metrics to tell if actions are effective for the process, and if there are metrics that are showing actions to be ineffective, it should likewise not pass internal nor third party audits. Are your registrars really ok with that or did they not see it?
I work for the Government in Canada. They do whatever they want to do.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The U.S., in an "at-will employment" state. But at least I'm not tyrannized by the communist evil of unions!

I can't decide whether "at will" states or "right to work" states are worse.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't think I could stay sane in a job where you had to account for literally every second of your day like that.

I'm hourly salaried but I'm allowed to put "stand by" or "on site" down for my time.
Yeah, same here. As I said the shenanigans with contractors are annoying, but we are unionised so it's not like we're treated like cattle. Yet.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
In emergencies you could use the toilet; but it counted against you. They operated on a demerit system (without actually calling it that, of course). Take a sick day, you got a certain number of demerits. Leave your desk for any reason outside of scheduled breaks or meetings, demerits. Not be at your desk and in the phone queue precisely at the start of your shift*, or come back from breaks even a few minutes late, demerits. And so on, and so on.

And demerits were banked. Earn a certain number, and you received an automatic black mark on your record (what they called a "counseling statement", no appeals possible (this affected your raises and other benefits, if you had black marks, you didn't get them). If you got a certain number more, then automatic firing, again no appeals possible. Demerits would roll off your account, but only if you went at least three months without accruing any new ones, otherwise they remained and continued to count against you. G-D help you if you had a chronic health problem (one of my colleagues got fired because she had to go to the doctor too many times).

They did have PTO available, but you had to schedule it at least 90 days in advance. I ended up having to miss my uncle's funeral, or risk getting fired. They did allow for time off for such things, "bereavement leave", but only for immediate family members.

Found out a few months after starting that the place was owned and run by Scientologists, which explained all those draconian polices. It was a weird atmosphere, the monthly department meetings were run very much like church services. It was creepy.


*They also practiced hot-desking so they didn't have to pay for enough desks for everyone. Which meant that if the person on the shift before yours got stuck on a long call and could not relinquish your assigned desk to you, you were screwed.
That's pretty nasty. Did they not understand that allowing for more relaxed employees actually increases productivity?
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:25 AM   #65
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I see where this is good for most contractors, but I'm not sure about gig workers. Gig workers seem to be the ones that look least like employees.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:25 AM   #66
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Reading these stories it makes me realize how good I've got it. My timesheet (I'm a systems administrator, or IT administrator, or just IT) consists of a line for each day. It has the date, a cost code, in\out, lunch and total. I generally fill in the in\out first with an 8-5 and a 1hr lunch. Then I fill in what I did for the day, usually something to the effect of "Backup resolution" or "Flattened network some more", then I sign it and I'm done!

They don't really question me much because I bring them in money from doing outside work. As long as that happens I get no complaints.
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Last edited by plague311; 11th September 2019 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:27 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's pretty nasty. Did they not understand that allowing for more relaxed employees actually increases productivity?

Did you miss the "owned and run by Scientologists" part?
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:41 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Did you miss the "owned and run by Scientologists" part?
No, but I mistakingly assumed they were able to understand reason and evidence. Won't make that mistake again.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:54 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I can't decide whether "at will" states or "right to work" states are worse.
My state is both. Fun.
https://lwdsupport.tn.gov/hc/en-us/a...r-disciplining
Quote:
Tennessee is known as an "EMPLOYMENT-AT-WILL" state. Generally, this means that an employer may legally hire, fire, suspend or discipline any employee at any time and for any reason - good or bad - or for no reason at all.
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/tennes...work-laws.html
Quote:
Many states, including Tennessee, have so-called right to work laws that prohibit the use of union membership status as a condition for getting or keeping a job. Employees in states without right to work laws are generally required to join the union if their workplace is part of a collective bargaining agreement, but still have the option of opting out.
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Old 11th September 2019, 11:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
That does not sound like best practice. Gartner is a very broad brush and you need to look at ITIL and here we're talking about Incident Management process and Underpinning Contracts to maintain service levels.
We are an ITIL organization. The problem is that ITIL is only supposed to be a framework from which you make rational decisions as to what applies to your organize and how best to implement to fit your needs. IBM treats it like a checklist, and because that same list is fed to non-technical auditors they happily report “everything is great”.
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I worked for IBM for 15 years.
When? IBM began shedding technical capability as far back as 2006 and if it were my decision there isn’t much I would trust them with at this point. I know of several places they are outright blacklisted because the only thing they are good at anymore is explaining why all the problems they create are someone else’s fault.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's scarily accurate.

"Okay Bill you can either be an employee or a contractor."
"What's the difference?"
"Well you see if you are a contractor we can fire you at any time."
"And if I'm an employee?"
"Same thing pretty much."
Around here it's more like:

"Okay Bill you can either be an employee or a contractor."
"What's the difference?"
"Well you see if you are a contractor we can fire you at any time over anything, and we can pay you a gig rate of $2 a day/"per job" if you accept it, and we won't pay anything into your SS or Medicare, that's all on you. And you're on your own in terms of unemployment insurance, too."
"And if I'm an employee?"
"We have to pay you at least minimum wage and pay into your SS and Medicare, you'd be eligible for unemployment, but we can still fire you at any time over anything."
"Well, I guess I'd prefer to be an employee."
"I said you CAN, not MAY! Hahahaha! I'm sure you would like to be an employee. Too bad, sucker!"
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:06 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
I never worked as a contractor, and when I was an boss we didn't hire contractors as pretty much everything we did needed full time peeps. But I did have one applicant for an engineering position insist on being a contractor AND being paid in gold.

It was a short interview.
Was his name John Galt?
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:08 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Exploitation always finds a way, I'm certain a new method is already being worked on.
This.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:12 PM   #74
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I am skeptical about how effective this will be, but nice to see some pushback on the way companies are dodging basic benefits for workers.
As someone said, the Hi Tech companies...one of the worse abusers..like to portray themselves as progressive and great employers, but the reality is another story.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:36 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How often are you required to give rides to remain an Uber contractor?
I'm not.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:54 PM   #76
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I testified in an L&I court along with a couple other nurses after we started working as independent contractors instead of working for a temp agency. One of the temp agencies reported us because we cut them out as the middle-person.

It was eye opening to hear a person could be an independent contractor as a gardener but a nurse had to work under 'supervision'. That was the key. We made quick work of that fallacy with our testimony and this state's nurse practice law which defines nurses as autonomous and responsible for the patient, not the employer.

And the agencies in no way acted as supervisors for the nurses they sent out on jobs so they had no case.

We won, which had a big impact on the nursing group (Cascade Nurses) who did our scheduling when it came to paying industrial insurance and federal unemployment taxes. I had the option to pay into those funds but chose not to.

The SEIU which had only recently moved into the nursing industry thought we were being exploited. But I made more even with buying my own health insurance and not having paid time off than SEIU nurses did. I got into a discussion with a union rep in a hospital cafeteria once. She was a bit stunned to find me defending my independent contractor status. I, on the other hand, loved my self-employed status.

Eventually we did more to get nurses decent wages than the union ever did because we became competition for nurses after years of hospitals controlling wages by allowing staff shortages while maintaining a monopoly on nurse wages. At the time hospitals became much more technical and they couldn't get by with shortages, they could hire nurses from agencies and independent contractors, but they had to pay wages to compete for us. But I digress....

So now here we are a couple decades later with these tech employers forcing employees to become independent contractors and essentially cutting benefits costs.

What amazes me is, how those employers could do that when we actually had to get an L&I ruling before we could.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:56 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
We are an ITIL organization. The problem is that ITIL is only supposed to be a framework from which you make rational decisions as to what applies to your organize and how best to implement to fit your needs. IBM treats it like a checklist, and because that same list is fed to non-technical auditors they happily report “everything is great”.

When? IBM began shedding technical capability as far back as 2006 and if it were my decision there isn’t much I would trust them with at this point. I know of several places they are outright blacklisted because the only thing they are good at anymore is explaining why all the problems they create are someone else’s fault.
Can I invite you to come speak to our management? Maybe they'll listen to someone else's experience

This sounds so darn familiar...
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Old 11th September 2019, 01:13 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't think I could stay sane in a job where you had to account for literally every second of your day like that.

I'm hourly salaried but I'm allowed to put "stand by" or "on site" down for my time.
When I worked for a law firm I spent at least one full hour of my day working on my time sheet.

I had to bill at least 8.3* hours a day in 6 minute increments. Each billing entry had to follow a set format and be billed to a specific client-matter number. The wording of the description was very structured and any deviation from the approved language, capitalization, abbreviation and punctuation would require correction.

There were no billing codes for client development or client relations. If I was talking to a client about a job I had to bill them, if they were just chatting about their weekend I was losing money and had to decide when to just cut them off. Administrative BS and firm or department meetings were not billable, nor was managing your staff or the time you spent hiring or training new staff. So, you tended to hire people who knew what to do and hope you didn't have to waste time training them.

I would usually work on cleaning up my time sheet from the day before for the first 30 minutes of every day. And then I would fill it in during the day as I was working and then at the end of the day spend another 30 minutes trying to make sure I got everything I did on paper.

It is odd to think of tenths of an hour as a billable increment, but when your billing rate is several hundred dollars per hour and some of your projects have hard caps for the amount that can be billed to them you have to be very careful. I kept spreadsheets for every project I worked on and tried to always predict how much a partner or senior partner would try to take off the top of the budget to justify their oversight.

It is a ****** way to run a business and I'm glad to be done with it. All my work now is either on a monthly fee arrangement or per project fee. I could probably make more by insisting on hourly rates, but I just can't fill out another time sheet.

*Most firms require a minimum of 2000 billable hours a year. If you take two weeks vacation and two weeks of sick leave that leaves 48 billing weeks, which comes out to 8.33 hours per billing day. BTW, vacations suck when you are behind on your billing requirements for the year. And you don't sleep in on Saturday if you left the office with less than 42 hours billed at the end of the day Friday. It is a bit easier if you are working on litigation or bet the company transactions, clients don't worry about budgets as much on those projects.
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Old 11th September 2019, 01:20 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Was his name John Galt?

Who is John Galt?
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Old 11th September 2019, 01:20 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You wouldn't call anything anything.
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