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Tags Chelsea Clinton , Clinton conspiracies , newsmax

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Old 24th April 2014, 09:53 AM   #81
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by cornsail View Post
Today people aren't coining the terms, they're using terms that already have well established meanings. At least when I use the term "pro life" I mean "anti abortion" and throughout my whole life everyone else has seemed to use it the same way I do. Same for "pro choice" and "pro-legalized-abortion". Perhaps other people mean something different by it. But I haven't heard any alternative definitions proposed. *shrug*

The "alternative" definition you're talking about was the one initially intended by the people who were objecting to abortion rights.

I remember, because I was there when it all happened. I was an adult when Roe v. Wade was passed. I had close friends who had been deeply affected by the issue of abortion both before and after the decision.

The people bellyaching about the SCOTUS finding in favor of the right for women to choose what happens to their bodies didn't want to be be buttonholed as one-issue whiners (even though they were) so they ginned up the "pro-life" fairy tale to create an illusion of compassion.

This is why Unabogie's comment is very relevant.
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
It still doesn't explain how "life news" is against health care for everyone. You'd think that being "pro-life" would lead you inexorably towards a feeling that everyone should get to see a doctor.

I don't know why you feel you can delegate to yourself the right to redefine a term coined by the very people it was intended to describe, just because it also turns out to have exposed the essentially hypocritical basis of their ideology, or just because you apparently lack the experience or background to understand its origin and purpose.


Quote:
This is honestly one of the most baffling arguments I've had in my life and my head will probably explode if I continue

Cognitive dissonance can be like that.

Quote:
so maybe we should end it here.

Okay. It's your loss though. You seem to be in need of the history lessons.
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Old 24th April 2014, 01:16 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Such Democrat. Very president.
Such doge.
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Old 24th April 2014, 03:59 PM   #83
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Huhhh huhhh huhhhh!
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Old 24th April 2014, 04:21 PM   #84
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Ok then:

If pro-choicers are so keen on people being able to make their own choices why can't I choose the school I want to send my kid to? Or choose what they learn about sex in school? Or decide I don't want health insurance? Or that I don't want to pay for maternity or birth control coverage?
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Old 24th April 2014, 04:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Ok then:

If pro-choicers are so keen on people being able to make their own choices why can't I choose the school I want to send my kid to? Or choose what they learn about sex in school? Or decide I don't want health insurance? Or that I don't want to pay for maternity or birth control coverage?
As far as school goes, go Gault, but really go Gault. If you want to keep your kids stupid, who am I to judge? Just don't ask me to pay for it.

If you don't want birth control, don't use it.

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Old 24th April 2014, 04:42 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by daredelvis View Post
As far as school goes, go Gault, but really go Gault. If you want to keep your kids stupid, who am I to judge? Just don't ask me to pay for it.
No problem. You see, I am pro-choice all the way. Let's privatize schools so we can each CHOOSE what we want to pay for.

Quote:
If you don't want birth control, don't use it.

Daredelvis
Of course. And if you choose to use it, you pay for it. I choose not to so I shouldn't pay, right? Pro-choice!
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Old 24th April 2014, 06:06 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
No problem. You see, I am pro-choice all the way. Let's privatize schools so we can each CHOOSE what we want to pay for.
That's not what I'd choose to pay for, why do you not want me to have a choice?
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Old 24th April 2014, 09:09 PM   #88
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Yeah let's abolish public schools, make sure poor people can't get an education. I don't want to pay for the future of my society, pfft!
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Old 24th April 2014, 09:14 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
Yeah let's abolish public schools, make sure poor people can't get an education. I don't want to pay for the future of my society, pfft!
I want poor people to be able to choose the school they want to send their kids to. I guess you aren't pro-choice...
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Old 24th April 2014, 09:24 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I want poor people to be able to choose the school they want to send their kids to. I guess you aren't pro-choice...
They... can?

And what does this have to do with abortion anyway?
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Old 24th April 2014, 09:29 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
They... can?

And what does this have to do with abortion anyway?
Oh, about as much as being pro-life has to do with welfare.
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Old 25th April 2014, 10:37 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The "alternative" definition you're talking about was the one initially intended by the people who were objecting to abortion rights.

I remember, because I was there when it all happened. I was an adult when Roe v. Wade was passed. I had close friends who had been deeply affected by the issue of abortion both before and after the decision.

The people bellyaching about the SCOTUS finding in favor of the right for women to choose what happens to their bodies didn't want to be be buttonholed as one-issue whiners (even though they were) so they ginned up the "pro-life" fairy tale to create an illusion of compassion.

This is why Unabogie's comment is very relevant.
Okay, but today the term is used to mean "anti-abortion", at least by my experience. Perhaps my experience is not universal, but if, for example, I read that a presidential candidate was "pro-life" I would interpret that to mean anti-abortion and I wouldn't interpret it as revealing the candidates positions on any issues other than abortion. I could be wrong, but I think most people would read it the same way.

You still haven't said what the alternative definition is, just who it was intended by.

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Cognitive dissonance can be like that.
Cognitive dissonance refers to an experience caused by holding contradictory beliefs. What contradictory beliefs do you believe I hold?
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Old 25th April 2014, 12:39 PM   #93
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I think even back in the day, pro-life has always meant that the fetus has a right to life and pro choice has always meant that women have a right to choose abortion.

Pro-life has never been used to argue for any other "life-related," rights and pro-choice has never been used to argue for other choices. Which is what I was trying to illustrate in my earlier posts. Pro-choice does not imply that a person supports all choice always and pro-life does not mean that a person supports supporting life in all instances. For example, most pro-lifers in the abortion argument are pro-death penalty. Most pro-choicers do not support a person's right to choose what kind of health insurance to buy.

Thus, arguments like the ones Unaboogie made about his confusion over pro-lifer's positions are dishonest. He knows (or should know) that "pro-life" refers exclusively to the abortion argument, just as the term pro-choice does.
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Old 26th April 2014, 08:38 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Most pro-choicers do not support a person's right to choose what kind of health insurance to buy.
LOL what? Citation needed.
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Old 27th April 2014, 08:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by daredelvis View Post
As far as school goes, go Gault, but really go Gault. If you want to keep your kids stupid, who am I to judge? Just don't ask me to pay for it.
Galt? Like John Galt? Is this some kind of pedagogy where the teacher lets the children loose into the world to learn what they can through spirit and true grit?
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Old 28th April 2014, 08:53 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
But she's a Democrat so it's, you know, different.
Is she ?
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Old 28th April 2014, 08:56 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Is she ?
You got me. I really don't know. But if I were a betting man...
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Old 28th April 2014, 09:34 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
LOL what? Citation needed.
Yes, this was exactly my reaction to Unaboogie's confusion as to how being pro-life in the abortion debate didn't "lead inexorably towards the feeling that everyone should see a doctor."
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Old 28th April 2014, 06:31 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Galt? Like John Galt? Is this some kind of pedagogy where the teacher lets the children loose into the world to learn what they can through spirit and true grit?
And they promptly get eaten by wolves. The teacher is thus done with the hopeless cases.

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Old 29th April 2014, 08:44 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
You got me. I really don't know. But if I were a betting man...
She seems more corporatist than Obama, so that's not very progressive, anyway, to say nothing about being a liberal, or socialist.

I don't think the USA needs two right-wing parties.
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Old 5th May 2014, 12:53 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Innocent good news that Hillary will give serious thought to exploiting on the campaign trail.
She will be the first politician ever to use their cute kids or grandkids to help their campaign.
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Old 6th May 2014, 11:53 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
She will be the first politician ever to use their cute kids or grandkids to help their campaign.
No she won't. Why would you even think that?
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Old 6th May 2014, 08:06 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No she won't. Why would you even think that?
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Old 6th May 2014, 08:28 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
I don't know what that means.
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Old 7th May 2014, 04:47 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't know what that means.
No kidding.
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Old 7th May 2014, 09:08 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
No kidding.
No, seriously: Why would anybody think Hillary Clinton would be the first politician to consider using their grandchildren to further their campaign?
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Old 7th May 2014, 09:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, seriously: Why would anybody think Hillary Clinton would be the first politician to consider using their grandchildren to further their campaign?
Psst. It's called "sarcasm".
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Old 7th May 2014, 09:12 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, seriously: Why would anybody think Hillary Clinton would be the first politician to consider using their grandchildren to further their campaign?
Oh, the long troll. Well played, well played.
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Old 8th May 2014, 12:34 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No she won't. Why would you even think that?
I forgot the sarcasm tags, apparently.
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Old 8th May 2014, 09:09 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I forgot the sarcasm tags, apparently.
My bad; I thought you were trying to make a point of some kind. Turns out you were just agreeing with me. Carry on!
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Old 9th May 2014, 07:31 PM   #111
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Just read at Yahoo that Chelsea is getting her Doctorate from Oxford. Congrats!
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:21 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by ABC10 View Post
Just read at Yahoo that Chelsea is getting her Doctorate from Oxford. Congrats!
And somehow this is political?
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Old 10th May 2014, 05:29 AM   #113
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If (when?) Hillary doesn't run;

Should there be a new entry in the Guinness Book of World Records for the most talked-about non-candidate who never once said they were going to run in 2016?
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Last edited by quadraginta; 10th May 2014 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 10th May 2014, 08:24 AM   #114
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maybe Palin is just jealous because Ms. Clinton's daughter got pregnant after she was married and both partners had a stable income. As opposed to drunkenly getting knocked up in the backseat of her boyfriend's Camaro before finishing high school.
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