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Old 13th August 2018, 12:45 PM   #921
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Yeah I don't believe you can sue for false imprisonment for being arrested on a properly-issued warrant, even if you are later found not guilty or the charges are dropped.
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Old 13th August 2018, 12:49 PM   #922
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If he is found innocent, Florida will have to reimburse him for all legal fees.
That's... that's not how it works.
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Old 13th August 2018, 01:09 PM   #923
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Isn't Florida where a woman who followed Joe Biden's advice and fired a warning shot got 20 years?
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:05 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
If he is found innocent, Florida will have to reimburse him for all legal fees.
Is that really the law in Florida? Have a cite for that?
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:31 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Isn't Florida where a woman who followed Joe Biden's advice and fired a warning shot got 20 years?
There are a lot of complicating details that get in the way of it being the wonderful "Stupid liberals and their ideas about gun control" meme that makes it so popular.

1. The woman left the room during the altercation with her estranged husband, grabbed a gun from her car, and returned to confront him with it.

2. The "warning shot" was actually fired toward Alexander's estranged husband and his two kids, hitting the wall very close to his head. Some warning shot! The prosecutor always maintained that she intended to kill them. She was convicted of aggravated assault by the jury in twelve minutes, so they must have been thinking she intended to do damage, not to warn. And although the 20 years was widely considered excessive, it was mandatory under the law.

3. A new trial was granted on appeal. Rather than retry it, a plea deal was reached that capped her sentence at the 3 years she already served. She was released.

Personally I think that Alexander was indeed trying to kill her husband, possibly in a distorted attempt at self-defense, but even "stand your ground" does not apply to "leave your ground, get a weapon, return to your ground and finish the job." Perhaps her abusive husband "deserved killing" as they say in some parts, but the law usually doesn't hold with just shooting down people in this prolonged, thoughtful way, not even those who have hurt you in the past.

Now although I do see certain parallels between the OP and Alexander's case, there is one additional difference that might be relevant. Alexander is black. Djejka is not. So I also suspect that she was overcharged and quickly convicted in a way that would have been less likely were she white.

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Old 13th August 2018, 02:45 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Drejka's been charged with manslaughter today.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...case_170853729
Hey waddya know, called it back it post 58!
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:55 PM   #927
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Hey waddya know, called it back it post 58!
i called it in 89, so tip of the hat to you.
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Old 13th August 2018, 03:18 PM   #928
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
None of this is surprising. Drejka is a public menace and the courts need to intervene.

Don't know why it is taking so long for the DA to make a decision. Surely they have reviewed all the relevant evidence at this point.
Polling results. You need that when you're elected.
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Old 13th August 2018, 04:28 PM   #929
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Is that really the law in Florida? Have a cite for that?
Biden suggested a shotgun, not a handgun.
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Old 13th August 2018, 04:45 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Isn't Florida where a woman who followed Joe Biden's advice and fired a warning shot got 20 years?
I think it was this guy in WA.
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa...ing-gun-in-air
Quote:
On February 19 Biden – then promoting a package of gun control proposals that included a ban on assault-style rifles – said he had advised his wife, "if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house."

Vice President Joe Biden's gun advice is being used as a defense by Jeffery Barton, a 52-year-old Vancouver, Wash., man charged with illegal aiming or discharging a firearm.

Barton was arrested Monday for allegedly shooting a shotgun in the air to chase people he considered potential car thieves off his property.
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:00 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Hey waddya know, called it back it post 58!
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
i called it in 89, so tip of the hat to you.

I called it in post #1.

And it was clear from the moment we learned what the witness told McGlockton inside the store:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...case_170853729

Quote:
A witness, indicating that Drejka "appeared confrontational," according to the warrant, told McGlockton about the heated argument outside and said he might want to get involved.

Therefore the push was reasonable under the information known at the time. Therefore manslaughter.
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:22 PM   #932
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Now for the cold hard truth:

#1 Drejka's 3 priors that we learned about last week and I outlined in post #902. A black man in Florida would have been arrested and charged for at least 2 of them. Full stop.

#2: Every single person in this thread who claimed the push was unjustified would have said it was justified if the woman in the car with a toddler and newborn baby was a 50 year old white woman and the man harassing her was a 25 year old black man. Full stop. Own it.


Everyone wiggling in their chairs right now dying to respond you need to remember, racism can be subconscious. Nowhere in the above did I claim it had to be conscious.

(Unless they were grossly misinformed about who knew what. Which we know is not the case because they were reacquainted with the facts repeatedly. For instance, several people in this thread repeatedly made it appear that McGlockton had the information that it was just about a parking spot. Even though they were told several times we know for a fact he did not.)

We are barely a generation out from segregation so things like this are to be expected. Maybe it will all be better in 100 years. Maybe not.

It's about time to end the tradition of "if the white don't win we all jump in".
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:46 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Now for the cold hard truth luke warm speculation:
Best victory dance ever.

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Old Yesterday, 02:19 AM   #934
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I hope he is convicted, since there is evidence he engineers confrontations and he fired as the victim turned away, showing clear signs of desisting.

I suspect he will not because of the amount of gun owners who are better served by reducing the risk of them being convicted for using their gun in self defence.
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Old Yesterday, 04:27 AM   #935
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Now for the cold hard truth:

#1 Drejka's 3 priors that we learned about last week and I outlined in post #902. A black man in Florida would have been arrested and charged for at least 2 of them. Full stop.

#2: Every single person in this thread who claimed the push was unjustified would have said it was justified if the woman in the car with a toddler and newborn baby was a 50 year old white woman and the man harassing her was a 25 year old black man. Full stop. Own it.


Everyone wiggling in their chairs right now dying to respond you need to remember, racism can be subconscious. Nowhere in the above did I claim it had to be conscious.

(Unless they were grossly misinformed about who knew what. Which we know is not the case because they were reacquainted with the facts repeatedly. For instance, several people in this thread repeatedly made it appear that McGlockton had the information that it was just about a parking spot. Even though they were told several times we know for a fact he did not.)

We are barely a generation out from segregation so things like this are to be expected. Maybe it will all be better in 100 years. Maybe not.

It's about time to end the tradition of "if the white don't win we all jump in".
1) None of his priors resulted in victims willing to cooperate with police. Lazy police combined with victims not wanting charges to be pursued means his prior road rage incidents were not acted on. Hindsight is 20/20. He was cited for a traffic violation for his erratic driving road rage incident, but the incidents where he was armed resulted in no charges. I would hope any incident involving brandishing a firearm would trigger a more thorough response, but I'm not too surprised by the lackadaisical response.

2) I fail to see how him being charged validates your ridiculous assertion that McGlocktons shove was lawful. The report says that Drejka was "confrontational". Confrontational does not mean criminal. Michael Moore is confrontational. Paparrazis are confrontational. Unless there was a threat of violence, it's not a crime to be confrontational. Making people uncomfortable by criticizing their behavior is not a crime. It is not necessary for McGlockton to be acting lawfully for Drejka to be found guilty of manslaughter. I'll file this one under "two wrongs don't make a right". I think the video analysis showing that there was 12 feet of distance when Drejka fired on an unarmed man, with his history of flying off the handle while armed, will be more damning. I imagine any defense will try to exclude his previous incidents as prejudicial to the jury (because they sure are for me). I hope they are unsuccessful and he is found guilty and is given a long sentence.

As far as "owning" that I would see this differently if the races were reversed... Get over yourself, you are making an absurd claim. Full stop. Own it.
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Old Yesterday, 04:34 AM   #936
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
1) None of his priors resulted in victims willing to cooperate with police. Lazy police combined with victims not wanting charges to be pursued means his prior road rage incidents were not acted on. Hindsight is 20/20

2) I fail to see how him being charged validates your ridiculous assertion that McGlocktons shove was lawful. The report says that Drejka was "confrontational". Confrontational does not mean criminal. Michael Moore is confrontational. Paparrazis are confrontational. Unless there was a threat of violence, it's not a crime to be confrontational. Making people uncomfortable by criticizing their behavior is not a crime. It is not necessary for McGlockton to be acting lawfully for Drejka to be found guilty of manslaughter. I'll file this one under "two wrongs don't make a right". I think the video analysis showing that there was 12 feet of distance when Drejka fired on an unarmed man, with his history of flying off the handle while armed, will be more damning. I imagine any defense will try to exclude his previous incidents as prejudicial to the jury (because they sure are for me). I hope they are unsuccessful and he is found guilty and is given a long sentence.

As far as "owning" that I would see this differently if the races were reversed... Get over yourself, you are making an absurd claim. Full stop. Own it.
His previous record and subsequent behaviour does suggest that he was probably coming across as threatening to the victim's partner (The Big Dog - I am not sure why the difference between "partner" and "spouse" is so important in this case, but hey).
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Old Yesterday, 04:35 AM   #937
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's... that's not how it works.
Right, I went back and it is only for civil cases.

Quote:
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
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Old Yesterday, 04:56 AM   #938
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
His previous record and subsequent behaviour does suggest that he was probably coming across as threatening to the victim's partner (The Big Dog - I am not sure why the difference between "partner" and "spouse" is so important in this case, but hey).
I'm curious how much of his previous aggressive behavior will be allowed in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I was under the impression previous law-breaking and/or convictions were generally considered prejudicial and inadmissible as evidence. Maybe it can be brought up if there is dispute over the mindset of Drejka? I'm not knowledgeable enough about this to know how likely that would be in the case here. If it is allowed, I'd say the case is a cake-walk for conviction. Certainly doesn't help with the court of public opinion.

McGlockton's partner, Jacobs, has an attorney now and appears to be preparing some sort of wrongful death suit against Drejka. I imagine she'll be keeping quiet until the civil and criminal cases are concluded at the advice of her attorney. Since she is the only other living witness, besides Drejka himself, who can speak to what exactly occurred at the car window before the shove, we may not know if the shove was lawful self-defense for some time. There's no claim of threat of violence in the press release of the new arrest warrant. I think that piece of evidence would be included, so it's absence may be telling. What exactly was said at the car window may become important.

I think there's a strong case for manslaughter to be made even if the shove wasn't lawful.
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Old Yesterday, 06:04 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Isn't Florida where a woman who followed Joe Biden's advice and fired a warning shot got 20 years?
Yep why you are always best just killing them. See there is no legal distance between ignore them and kill them.
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Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Now for the cold hard truth:

#1 A black man in Florida would have been arrested and charged for at least 2 of them.
Sometimes maybe but people of all races do possibly illegal things they are not charged for.

Quote:
#2: Every single person in this thread who claimed the push was unjustified would have said it was justified if the woman in the car with a toddler and newborn baby was a 50 year old white woman and the man harassing her was a 25 year old black man. Full stop. Own it.
I absolutely own that based upon evidence I am aware of so far the push was unjustified and race has nothing to do with it.
It is possible we will find out more about what was said in the parking lot, or in the store that would change my mind.
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Old Yesterday, 06:34 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Therefore the push was reasonable under the information known at the time. Therefore manslaughter.
Uh, no. Drejka's guilt doesn't actually hinge upon whether or not the initial push was reasonable.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 AM   #942
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This guy is why Carrying guns is a bad idea all around
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Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Uh, no. Drejka's guilt doesn't actually hinge upon whether or not the initial push was reasonable.
I think that the toughest job that the Prosecutor is going to have in this case is getting through to the Jury how the law is to be interpreted, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and often it seems self delusion about this law, enough that even the writers of the law had to come and to say that the media, and others were getting it wrong.

If they can break through the Jury's human tendency to believe that they know more then they do, and have them listen and understand the Law, rather then keeping their own spin on it, then a Man-Slaughter case should be relatively easy. I still wouldn't have minded seeing a Murder 2 charge, but I guess they decided that it might be easier breaking those that felt sorry for him being pushed over out of their beliefs with the lesser charge.
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Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think that the toughest job that the Prosecutor is going to have in this case is getting through to the Jury how the law is to be interpreted, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and often it seems self delusion about this law, .....
If FL is anything like WA, the jury will get detailed written instructions from the judge on what the law means and how they are to interpret it. I suspect that the prosecutor will be emphasizing how the victim was no longer a threat when he was shot. The defense will probably tell the jury how terrifying the attacker was when the defendant was forced to shoot him.
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Old Today, 01:42 AM   #945
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The prosecution should concentrate on the point in the video when the gun is drawn and McGlockton steps away. The law clearly states that self defence does not apply when the other breaks away and the attack has ended.
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Old Today, 04:26 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
If FL is anything like WA, the jury will get detailed written instructions from the judge on what the law means and how they are to interpret it. I suspect that the prosecutor will be emphasizing how the victim was no longer a threat when he was shot. The defense will probably tell the jury how terrifying the attacker was when the defendant was forced to shoot him.
I think you are right that the primary argument of the case will be whether Drejka was in reasonable fear at the moment of firing. As far as the letter of the law is concerned, that's the pivotal issue.

I wonder if the prosecutor will want to and/or be allowed to discuss Drejka's motivations. Especially if his prior incidents are allowed into evidence, a strong case could be made that Drejka intended to provoke an incident. Maybe they won't state it so plainly, but try to shade him as a willing agent of conflict. While this may not be relevant to the exact letter of the law, the jury is comprised of people and this bit of background info could be the little push needed for any fence sitters.
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Old Today, 04:38 AM   #947
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I've sat on a several juries. None of the defendants ever made a good impression on me when they spoke, that alone didn't make them guilty though. Ditto for most of the lawyers; it's nothing like TV.

One guy even admitted on the stand under cross examination that he might have taken a swing at the cop he was accused of assaulting. I was thinking, "thank you for the confession".
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Old Today, 06:12 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The prosecution should concentrate on the point in the video when the gun is drawn and McGlockton steps away. The law clearly states that self defence does not apply when the other breaks away and the attack has ended.
well we KNOW they don't want to focus on the time the much larger and younger man knocked him on his ******* ass, amiright?
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Old Today, 06:55 AM   #949
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What we do not know is what the shover was saying after the shove.

Will there be testimony that he was saying things like:

Now, I'm going to kill you ?

Was the woman screaming kill him, or finish him?

We won't know until we hear testimony.
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Old Today, 07:08 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
What we do not know is what the shover was saying after the shove.

Will there be testimony that he was saying things like:

Now, I'm going to kill you ?

Was the woman screaming kill him, or finish him?

We won't know until we hear testimony.
True and not impossible. It also isn't impossible that the man on the ground thought the man who shoved him had a gun.
But we also don't know what was said to the girl in the car. Did he threaten to shoot her as he apparently has done before. Was this heard on the way out by the man who did the shoving?
This is what trials are for and even then you can never be sure.
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