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10th September 2018, 08:44 AM | #521 |
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10th September 2018, 08:48 AM | #522 |
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You're not even reading the links.
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10th September 2018, 08:49 AM | #523 |
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10th September 2018, 08:55 AM | #524 |
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10th September 2018, 08:56 AM | #525 |
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I get your point, that the proposed compromise is better than the status quo. What I would hope for is that threads like these raise awareness of how problematic shooting is, and how bad things can get, and start to sway those people who are inclined to give cops extra leeway with the 'whoopsie-daisy' defense. I think it is time to dig in, rather than give ground. Police shoot when they shouldn't, nation-wide. It's time to overhaul how we treat both cops and suspects in law enforcement.
Over the weekend, I was in Philadelphia and took the Patco (like a subway) to Camden (a scruffy city in NJ). The only time I felt a twinge of fear was when two Philly cops were giving me the once-over. It is becoming too normalized to fear cops. Time to hit the breaks and fix the problem, not tweak the details. A cop should not get the message that we will go soft on them killing innocents. They need to know that it will go much harder on them if the trigger is their first resort.
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10th September 2018, 09:00 AM | #526 |
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My compromise would be that at the very least cops be treated the same way that any other citizen would be when they screw up while off duty. That isn't enough, in my opinion, when they are on duty. I agree with those who have suggested that they should be held to a higher standard because of the considerable power inherent in their position and the added responsibility to exercise good judgement. Sadly the opposite seems to be the case. An off-duty cop who walks into someone else's home and shoots the legal resident should be treated the same way as anyone else who had done the same. Does anyone here actually believe it would have taken three days for a warrant to be issued and for her to be arrested if she had just been some regular "civilian" coming home from work? If it had been a young black male who had done this he would have been fortunate to stay alive long enough to even get arrested. But there wouldn't have been any delay about it. He would have been in handcuffs and on the way to jail as quickly as they could disengage him from the scene of the killing. Why wasn't she? |
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10th September 2018, 09:04 AM | #527 |
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You are asserting something that has not been proposed in this thread. Namely, that anyone is suggesting she should get special treatment because she is a LEO.
Under certain scenarios ( that would fit with the info we have so far ), I would be willing to consider this an accident if any armed citizen walked into what they thought was their own living room , in dark close quarters, and shot someone who they thought was an intruder. |
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10th September 2018, 09:07 AM | #528 |
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That's essentially what Drewbot is saying: "If she convinces a jury that she was in fear of her life, after a 14hour shift, they will have to acquit her." Drewbot believes that the "fear for her life" standard is sufficient to justify an acquittal, which is the legal equivalent of saying her actions were justified. |
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10th September 2018, 09:10 AM | #529 |
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Are you seriously proposing that if someone shot and killed an innocent man, in the innocent man's residence, that they would be able to walk away in any conceivable scenario if they were not a cop????
eta: What they 'thought' would come out later. Killers in someone else's house get cuffed, if not shot themselves, when police arrive |
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10th September 2018, 09:10 AM | #530 |
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10th September 2018, 09:15 AM | #531 |
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I'm not so sure. The key not turning might be enough to snap someone out of a state of distraction.
I had a very similar experience when I was in college. I mindlessly got off the elevator and tried to open the door to the dorm room one floor beneath mine. The key refusing to turn was what got me to pay attention and notice the room number was wrong. But sure, I could easily see someone just opening the door if it were unlocked. There's just too much unknown at this point and I'm a sucker for speculation. I'm sure more details will be forthcoming, we just have to wait. |
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10th September 2018, 09:16 AM | #532 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 09:17 AM | #533 |
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Well, you can never be too sure...
Yeah **** happens, right? Wrong appartment. Sees someone there. First instinct is not to question her location and look at the door number or anything. Point and shoot. Yeah, but she's an idiot, and I don't think stupidity is a mitigating circumstance. ...what? |
10th September 2018, 09:17 AM | #534 |
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10th September 2018, 09:18 AM | #535 |
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10th September 2018, 09:19 AM | #536 |
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10th September 2018, 09:20 AM | #537 |
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10th September 2018, 09:25 AM | #538 |
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10th September 2018, 09:26 AM | #539 |
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No, I don't think "Anyone could reasonably expect to be afraid in this situation" is an appropriate standard. The standard is, or should be, reasonable and justified fear that one is about to suffer an unlawful assault. If the fear turns out to be unjustified - for example, the "threat" turns out to be an unarmed man with learning difficulties who is holding a toy car rather than a criminal holding a gun - or the assault feared is in fact lawful - for example, one is in commission of a crime and is afraid that the police officer approaching is about to make an arrest - then the standard would not be met.
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10th September 2018, 09:27 AM | #540 |
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10th September 2018, 09:30 AM | #541 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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10th September 2018, 09:30 AM | #542 |
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10th September 2018, 09:32 AM | #543 |
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Are you taking the piss, here?
None are apparent. Burden of evidence and all that.
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10th September 2018, 09:33 AM | #544 |
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I've had cops as neighbors in other large Texas cities and they all came home in uniform and with their assigned vehicle. I think they have to reach a certain rank to take the assigned vehicle home, though. Both of my neighbors who were officers had some time in.
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10th September 2018, 09:36 AM | #545 |
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I thought I read something about it being difficult to get on the wrong floor because access to the floors was controlled as well.
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 09:40 AM | #546 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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10th September 2018, 09:43 AM | #547 |
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10th September 2018, 09:44 AM | #548 |
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10th September 2018, 09:44 AM | #549 |
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"Possibly". In the sense that anything is possible? If she had just been some random person and not a cop, they would have had her arrested and downtown first, and let her off on her own afterward if they thought that was appropriate. Either way she would have been escorted away by the cops. You can count on it. The police would have been delinquent to do anything else. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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10th September 2018, 09:47 AM | #550 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 09:47 AM | #551 |
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That was my point in posting the imaginary news story about an off-duty officer being shot in their apartment by a neighbor who had gone to the wrong apartment.
Turn it around, if it was the officer who had been shot and killed by a neighbor who was at the wrong door. Would someone who killed an off-duty officer in identical circumstances be treated the same way? Because they should be. In this case, especially because the officer (apparently) immediately reported the incident, I can live with the police treating the officer with more consideration and courtesy than a non-officer would get. But it is not only ethically wrong, it's probably illegal. |
10th September 2018, 09:48 AM | #552 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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10th September 2018, 09:49 AM | #553 |
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10th September 2018, 09:49 AM | #554 |
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Right, and since my life is always in danger of something, I should shoot liberally.
She's a trained police officer, and she stupidly thought there was someone in her home when she was outside of it. Unless he acted violently I don't see how she could believe that her life was in danger. Dude, what are you on about?
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It's funny how you're consistently sidelining the important element here. Gee, what could it be...? |
10th September 2018, 09:50 AM | #555 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 09:50 AM | #556 |
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10th September 2018, 09:50 AM | #557 |
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Apparently we had to pretend that JAQing Off isn't a thing or else we're "misrepresenting" people.
Or hell not even that. Plenty of people have literally said the woman didn't do anything legally wrong so I don't know where the "SHOW ME THE EXACT WORDS!" rant is coming from. |
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10th September 2018, 09:52 AM | #558 |
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Being tired after your shift is not an excuse for walking into somebody else's house and shooting them to death. Consider that only minutes earlier, while equally "tired", the same officer was walking around, armed, and presumably responsible for protecting innocent life.
This person deserves to go to prison for a very long time. |
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10th September 2018, 09:54 AM | #559 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 09:54 AM | #560 |
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