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10th September 2018, 09:54 AM | #561 |
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10th September 2018, 09:55 AM | #562 |
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I can live with them treating anyone who immediately reported the incident with more courtesy as opposed to, say, billy clubbing them a few times and assorted other cop pastimes. But that just means being polite, which they should do anyway, in the absence of provocation. Not because she was a cop. And consideration and courtesy doesn't add up to not arresting her for three days. They knew she killed somebody. They didn't know why beyond what she had told them. Needing to gather more information is a reason to keep her, not to let her walk. |
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10th September 2018, 09:55 AM | #563 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 09:56 AM | #564 |
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I asked this question in a previous thread about an officer involved shooting and never got an answer from the "But... but they feared for their life!" crowd.
Is there any possible scenario in which an officer uses lethal force because "they feared for their life" in which they would still be in the wrong? Because if your answer is "No" you are functionally handing them a blank check to kill a whim. |
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10th September 2018, 09:58 AM | #565 |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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10th September 2018, 09:59 AM | #566 |
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10th September 2018, 10:02 AM | #567 |
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And she's killed the only person who can argue against that, hasn't she?
Look, you can "if" this all you want. Do you have any reason to believe she feared for her life beyond her own claim?
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Ah, yes. The classic "burglar in underwear". I get that all the time. Yeah but that was a scary black man. |
10th September 2018, 10:09 AM | #568 |
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So if I come up to "my" car, and I see someone in it, and I confront the person about being in "my" car, and I shoot him in fear for my life during the confrontation, it's okay?
Because the whole "fear for my life" was started by me, by thinking someone else's car was mine. Can you plead "fear for life" when you are the cause of your own fear? When you wrongly started the chain of events? I don't think you can. The cop started this chain of events, and the whole chain after that point is her fault in this case, imo. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 10:10 AM | #569 |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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10th September 2018, 10:10 AM | #570 |
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10th September 2018, 10:11 AM | #571 |
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Can you give me a scenario with an unreasonable fear? Is there such a thing in your opinion?
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10th September 2018, 10:12 AM | #572 |
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Right. It's happened to me four times so far; someone trying to open the door to my own appartment. So far, no one's gotten a machete in the forehead.
I think you missed turtle's heavy sarcasm. He does that. The scary thing about hat is that her judgment was clearly impaired by that shift. It's lucky she didn't shoot anyone else that day, eh? No, it's no different for police officers. You're making stuff up. |
10th September 2018, 10:13 AM | #573 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 10:13 AM | #574 |
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10th September 2018, 10:16 AM | #575 |
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I don't care if they fear for their life. They can cower in a closet all day in fear for all it matters.
The standard is if a reasonable person would believe that death or grievous bodily harm was imminent. The individual's cowardice/timidity are not the determinant. |
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10th September 2018, 10:16 AM | #576 |
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The "threat" from Jean is based not on reality, but on her own behavior and errors.
She fears Jean because she made several mistakes, not because Jean is someone to fear. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 10:17 AM | #577 |
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10th September 2018, 10:18 AM | #578 |
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If you got in the car, in the dark (because it was a very similar make/model and color to your own- which was parked one row over), and someone you did not expect popped up from the back seat of what you believed was your own car, and you shot them with a firearm you were legally able to have on your person. You would certainly have an argument to make.
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10th September 2018, 10:19 AM | #579 |
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10th September 2018, 10:20 AM | #580 |
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The poster formerly known as Redtail |
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10th September 2018, 10:20 AM | #581 |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 10:20 AM | #582 |
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It sounds like -- based on news accounts -- she made it clear it was an accidental shooting. She was described as apologizing to her victim and crying when the police arrived. Sounds like she made it pretty clear to everyone she had screwed up big time and knew it. I just don't see you, me or anyone who wasn't cop being able to tell arriving officers, you just shot, probably fatally, one of their fellow officers and being able to sleep in your own bed that night. Or the next night.
This is the old yarn about everyone being equal under the law. The proverbial 10-year-old kid in the street knows that's bull. And it shouldn't be bull. It's why some NFL players kneel. Do we mean what we say or don't we? |
10th September 2018, 10:23 AM | #583 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 10:25 AM | #584 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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10th September 2018, 10:26 AM | #585 |
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No. I do not have a blank check to kill someone absent other reasonable standards of self defense because "I" make a mistake.
And again as the Elephant in the room stomps around angry because nobody's paying it attention, cops don't get that right either. |
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10th September 2018, 10:28 AM | #586 |
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No, he's saying that the standard is REASONABLE expectation of threat. You have to be able to check where you are before you think you're home with enough certainty to shoot whoever's there.
See thread. Three posters have made that case. Speak for yourself. If my key didn't fit the damned lock I'd check the door number again. Sorry, Joe. That's not what JAQ is. Remember? And? |
10th September 2018, 10:28 AM | #587 |
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Think about how long it takes to investigate, prosecute, and defend a criminal case. Does anyone think that it can all be wrapped up on the spot and let the shooter walk away with the barrel still warm?
You get arrested when you kill someone. What, if any, charges are pressed comes later. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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10th September 2018, 10:30 AM | #588 |
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10th September 2018, 10:31 AM | #589 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 10:33 AM | #590 |
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10th September 2018, 10:38 AM | #591 |
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deleted. misinterpreted post
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10th September 2018, 10:40 AM | #592 |
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10th September 2018, 10:41 AM | #593 |
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More on the deadbolt thing I just checked and Dallas City ByLaws ...
"Require a keyless bolting device (that only can be locked and unlocked from the inside) and a door viewer on each exterior door." |
10th September 2018, 10:41 AM | #594 |
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The victim's lawyer says that he has video and witness testimony that contradict published accounts and right about the time he went to the DA with that video and witness, the cop was arrested.
Could be a coincidence, though. I think he has video or audio of the officer yelling at Jean to open the door. That would contradict the "unlocked door" story. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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10th September 2018, 10:49 AM | #595 |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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10th September 2018, 10:50 AM | #596 |
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10th September 2018, 10:50 AM | #597 |
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Stop misrepresenting everything.
No, FFS. I'm agreeing he presented an unreasonable fear. I just freaking told you that. And as far as I know the officer in this shooting hasn't event claimed fear at all yet. And I certainly haven't defended such a claim. If you would invest a minute to read for meaning I actually made a point that would make her eligible for a murder 2 charge rather than manslaughter (and I still don't see why murder 2 isn't appropriate here). |
10th September 2018, 10:52 AM | #598 |
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10th September 2018, 10:53 AM | #599 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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10th September 2018, 10:56 AM | #600 |
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If there was any malice, or thoughts of premeditation, the officer would have lawyered up immediately.
Either she is going to plea to some type of a manslaughter charge, or they are going to come up with some sort of mental health related defense. She was asleep on her feet after a tortuous 14-hour shift, therefore the incident occurred. They will call several expert witness to explain the effects of long shifts on performance and judgement. They will blame the police department for making this a requirement. https://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enfor...es/impact.aspx
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