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10th September 2018, 04:20 PM | #681 |
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This is why I have trouble with this. That's a mistake anyone could make, and once it's made, it led to a tragedy, but at no part do I see her doing something a non-reasonable person would do. I'm assuming a scenario where the door is unlocked, the room is dark, the victim acts startled and doesn't listen to her orders or maybe rushes at her. We can blame her for picking the wrong floor, I guess, but not for what happened afterwards. Again, assuming the best possible scenario for her.
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10th September 2018, 04:37 PM | #682 |
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Ok, then we can also come with the worst scenario. She hated the guy. He was letting his TV loud at night sometimes. She came from work after long shift and yep, she could hear the TV. She went to his apartment, and shot him. For extra flavor add some racial slurs, think Hollywood bad cop style.
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10th September 2018, 04:45 PM | #683 |
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10th September 2018, 05:13 PM | #684 |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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10th September 2018, 05:58 PM | #685 |
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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10th September 2018, 05:58 PM | #686 |
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10th September 2018, 06:07 PM | #687 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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10th September 2018, 06:23 PM | #688 |
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I get that, in the context of her mistake, her subsequent actions were explicable and would have been reasonable if they had not been based on that mistake. But my point, which I maintain, is that her rights and his rights are mutually exclusive here, and his prevail. No matter how reasonable her actions would have been in another story, in the real world where he was in his own home and she was the invader I think it a fatally flawed mistake to apportion rights.
I can see her fear or her confusion as mitigation of some punishment, but not as mitigation of the charge. To suggest that her imagined fear resulting from a fatally stupid mistake diminishes the substance of the charge is a crazy diminution of a man's right not to be murdered in his own home. And yes, I think she should be prosecuted. It's up to a separate process to decide a sentence, but that's a separate issue. She should at least be prosecuted, and I think it would be quite reasonable to make sure she's never again in a position to shoot someone. |
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10th September 2018, 06:30 PM | #689 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 06:37 PM | #690 |
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The poster formerly known as Redtail |
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10th September 2018, 06:37 PM | #691 |
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The level of blind authoritarianism on display by certain posters in this thread boggles the mind.
"Might makes right", I suppose... |
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10th September 2018, 06:46 PM | #692 |
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USA Today reports:
Quote:
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10th September 2018, 06:49 PM | #693 |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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10th September 2018, 06:50 PM | #694 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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10th September 2018, 06:53 PM | #695 |
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So shoot first, ask questions later. All it would have taken was to call out "Police officer! Stop moving, I am armed!"
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10th September 2018, 07:00 PM | #696 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 07:02 PM | #697 |
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10th September 2018, 07:11 PM | #698 |
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That hypothetical leaves too much out for me to answer (I am aware it was not directed at me, if I am not welcome to answer just say so), so I offer you another:
Suppose, the situation was as described (dark, small apartment, both subjects believing they were in their own home- conceded that only one subject was correct in that assumption) would the lawful occupant have been in his rights to shoot her on the spot? |
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10th September 2018, 07:12 PM | #699 |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 07:19 PM | #700 |
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She didn't make a mistake; she made several inexplicable mistakes. Parking on the wrong floor, somehow oblivious to signs which were certainly there. Walking to 'her' apartment, somehow missing the lighted apartment number, and for god's sake a bright red mat that she did not have. Her key did not work. The door she left locked was open. It's inexplicably difficult to have missed all that without snapping her out of whatever dazed state she was in, after a long day of serving warrants. You know, where you are carefully verifying addresses? Then, in the dark, she thinks she sees someone and starts shooting. Did you know your eyes can play tricks on you in the dark? I'll bet she does. Still opened fire in a residential building.
Even in the most favorable of interpretations, she killed a man, having no idea what was going on. She killed him in an apartment building, where personnel can be in your unit without notice. She killed him despite having formal training in how to apprehend suspects alive, and having the authority to do so. She killed him without the slightest regard for human life, because as far as she knew he was just a petty burglar. She killed him without any reported credible threat of imminent death to herself. She killed him because that was what she wanted to do. What part of this is reasonable again? |
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10th September 2018, 07:21 PM | #701 |
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I think the same questions would apply: Was the "intruder" armed? Was the resident in immediate danger or was it reasonable for him to think he was? Etc. As the lawful resident, he would have a stronger defense under the "castle" doctrine. But people have been prosecuted for things like shooting a drunk neighbor who enters the wrong house or a kid sneaking through a window after curfew.
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10th September 2018, 07:30 PM | #702 |
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Same here.
Interesting. You're thinking you'd actually be able to attract a higher quality of individual by offering more money rather than maybe just train cops better across the board? As has been shown already, cops are paid pretty well and get generous benefits plus an extremely strong and obnoxious union at the backs that the rest of the country also deserves far more than government officials. She is *not* an average, run of the mill Josephine here. She's a highly trained police officer. She absolutely must, as with every single other government employee, be held to far higher standards than the usual "hey, I'm just like y'all" sort of erroneous attitude.
Quote:
I'm gonna disagree that even in your statement here, she still did not have a right to self-defense. It's a similar concept to the idea that an instigator of a violent fight, for example, cannot throw a punch and then when punched back, claim self-defense by pulling a knife and gutting the person originally punched. She was still in the wrong place; she still had no authority nor reason to be there; she was in every respect, the instigator of violence by drawing a firearm in the first place. He was and is in the right even if he pulled a gun first and fired at her. Also this brings up the fact that the gun is the go-to implement for nearly every circumstance. They have batons, mace, tasers, and hand to hand training, but first sign of trouble, zip! out comes the blaster. |
10th September 2018, 07:52 PM | #703 |
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Latest weirdness: The cop is claiming that she didn't know she was in the wrong place until she called 911 and looked at the apartment number.
Quote:
So now she's claiming she didn't know her own address? |
10th September 2018, 08:01 PM | #704 |
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I'm sorry, but a 14 hour shift of mostly sitting on your ass in a police car, does not excuse forgetting your own ******* address.
I've worked 14 hours of exhausting manual labour a thousand times (often with something like 3 to 5 hours of sleep the night before), but not even once did it turn me into a blithering idiot incapable of finding my way home. This is utter BS from one end to the other. |
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10th September 2018, 08:03 PM | #705 |
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10th September 2018, 08:04 PM | #706 |
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10th September 2018, 08:07 PM | #707 |
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I am told by law enforcement officers that this description will likely be a key in officer Guyger’s defense:Good ******* lord! They're going for the you're not required to obey the verbal commands of an unlawful intruder in my own home unless you're black defense. |
10th September 2018, 08:11 PM | #708 |
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10th September 2018, 08:21 PM | #709 |
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Yep. I worked as a farm hand and in logging for years. The hours were crazy at times, and the work would break your back.
And yet I never forgot where to go to find my own bed at night. I even managed to not shoot anyone dead in their own home too. I guess I deserve some kinda ******* medal. |
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10th September 2018, 08:22 PM | #710 |
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If the truth does not come out (IMO) THIS will be her defence ... the defence will present, that in her mind at that time, it WAS her apartment.
If that is accepted, it's possible, she will be covered by any laws, and/or case history, of someone defending their home ... exactly as if he was actually IN her real apartment. How possible?? I don't know like most of us I'm no expert |
10th September 2018, 08:26 PM | #711 |
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That is nonsensical sounding.
If she thought she was in her own apartment, she wouldn't need to look at the door number. If she forgot her apartment number, looking at the door would not make her realize that she was in the wrong number (because she had forgotten it anyway), and if she needed to look because she knew the apartment was not hers then she would not have "discovered" anything new by looking at the door. The only way it makes sense is if the police were already at her actual address, and we're asking her where she was. Something like: them: "where are you?" Her: "408, my apartment" Them: " we are at 408 and no one is here" Her: "what?" -goes to look at door and discovers she is not in her apartment |
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10th September 2018, 08:30 PM | #712 |
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10th September 2018, 08:30 PM | #713 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 08:32 PM | #714 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 08:32 PM | #715 |
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Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist. |
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10th September 2018, 08:34 PM | #716 |
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10th September 2018, 08:35 PM | #717 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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10th September 2018, 08:35 PM | #718 |
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10th September 2018, 08:37 PM | #719 |
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10th September 2018, 08:38 PM | #720 |
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This is BS, and you know it. It's not like she had been awake for three or four days.
14 hours at work is nothing. Or are you saying most people are delirious and unaccountable for their actions after being awake for 16-18 hours? Which is basically a normal day for any semi-functional human? |
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