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7th September 2018, 01:24 PM | #121 |
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There could be reasons. Maybe that was the other officers telling neighbors to open their door for an interview. Or maybe during the early part of the investigation the cops didn't have the apartment door propped open and so with each new arriving cop they have to yell to be let into the apartment.
Anyway, it is odd to me that Caitlin Simpson would say that she heard the shooter cop yelling open up but then not say that she heard gunshots. I'm speculating that if she can hear the yelling in the hallway she can also hear the shots. |
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7th September 2018, 01:28 PM | #122 |
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7th September 2018, 01:33 PM | #123 |
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Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/07...kills-man.html |
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7th September 2018, 01:35 PM | #124 |
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7th September 2018, 01:43 PM | #125 |
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We don't know if her key was actually stuck in the lock (can't pull it out), or if she just didn't remove it and put it back in her pocket or belt lanyard before the shooting happened. The resident may have opened the door before she decided to just put the non-working key back on her body from where she got it.
There are rational explanations that don't require the key to suddenly be irremovable from the lock. |
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7th September 2018, 01:45 PM | #126 |
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Yes. She inserts the key, but it does not turn.
Jean hears someone fiddling with the lock and looks through the peephole (every apartment door I've ever seen has one). He sees a cop. He opens the door, perhaps to see what the cop is doing there. The key is still in the lock. The key didn't unlock the door, but the key still fits into the lock because all the locks in the building are the same brand. The cop, still thinking it is her apartment, reacts. That seems very plausible. Manslaughter charges seem appropriate. |
7th September 2018, 01:46 PM | #127 |
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7th September 2018, 01:53 PM | #128 |
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7th September 2018, 01:54 PM | #129 |
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7th September 2018, 01:58 PM | #130 |
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I would expect the shooter cop to either stand in the hallway near the victim's door or stand near the elevator while waiting for the other cops to arrive.
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7th September 2018, 02:04 PM | #131 |
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7th September 2018, 02:07 PM | #132 |
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7th September 2018, 02:09 PM | #133 |
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Maybe she went down to the lobby to meet arriving officers because she knew they wouldn't be able to get in an elevator or stairway without a key.
How do the cops go anywhere in this building without a key or swipecard? |
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7th September 2018, 02:24 PM | #134 |
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In the adrenaline rush of just having shot someone I don't see why you think she would all of the sudden realize her mistake. It is just as likely that she didn't notice the mistake until after she had made the call. If the apartments are furnished it may have taken her quite some time to realize it wasn't her place.
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7th September 2018, 02:25 PM | #135 |
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7th September 2018, 02:26 PM | #136 |
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I think we'll need to compare her contemporaneous statement with the crime scene evidence. Right now it is all just guessing.
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7th September 2018, 02:27 PM | #137 |
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I would hope in these situations the officer would be administering first aid and trying to stabilize the victim.
And assuming, as she may have, that this was a dangerous, possibly armed individual, why did she not step away from the door to safety and cover it while assessing the situation? ETA: First paragraph should go second |
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7th September 2018, 02:36 PM | #138 |
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My presumption is that she sees the interior of the apartment right after shooting him and realizes it isn't her place - then she calls dispatch. I'm presuming that the shooting happens right at the door as soon as he opens it. He drops to the ground and she is now able to see past him into the apartment and knows it isn't her place. This all happens in seconds.
But then there is the possibility that it's completely dark inside the apartment and she can't see anything inside there both before and after shooting him. The hallway probably has lighting that spills into the apartment to a certain extent when the door is open. |
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7th September 2018, 02:51 PM | #139 |
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That may have happened and maybe the "Open up" yelling was the cops telling her to let them into the apartment where she was doing first aid on the victim.
Quote:
But it's also possible that she didn't really think there was a burglar inside and only that her key wasn't getting the door open. She's fiddling with it and maybe putting her shoulder to work trying to push it open in case it's somehow stuck shut like that. Then the door suddenly pops open and it's a guy holding a gun which is really a cellphone. She instantly draws and shoots never once thinking that it isn't her own apartment. No words exchanged at all. It's a possibility. |
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7th September 2018, 02:51 PM | #140 |
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7th September 2018, 03:17 PM | #141 |
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More on the victim. Sounds like a lot of people will miss him.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/us/da...ean/index.html https://www.thv11.com/article/news/l...s/91-591995283 |
7th September 2018, 04:10 PM | #142 |
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ABC says tenants use an electronic key, and that the interaction -- details still unclear -- occurred after the door opened. Sounds like he heard somebody at the door, opened it, and the cop -- white, but we knew that, right? -- decided this is a bad guy.
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7th September 2018, 05:00 PM | #143 |
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Indeed, that seems like a primary detail. Of course she felt threatened as anyone making a stupid, egregious error might. She should, under the circumstances, not only have felt threatened, but been threatened. Given the law where she lives, she should thank her lucky stars the victim of her home invasion did not have a chance to exercise his right to shoot her dead where she stood.
Yes, it's not only not an excuse, but even as an explanation, it's no more mitigation than it would be if she said Jesus told her to do it. (ed to add) OK, maybe I'm being a little harsh here but it appears that the man opened the door for her. Would a thief in her house do that? It seems pretty clear that she came in armed and ready, and shot him before there was any chance to explain. One the one hand I feel as if one should not be too harsh over a terrible mistake, but on the other, I feel if she came in with the intention to shoot and kill the occupant of the apartment, then why only manslaughter? The fact that it was all a mistake does not diminish the fact that she almost certainly premeditated the shooting before the door was even opened. |
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7th September 2018, 05:27 PM | #144 |
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7th September 2018, 05:27 PM | #145 |
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Here's my bet on the scenario:
Somehow she got **** faced after work, uniform or not, maybe she stopped off at the bar on the way home. At the apt she was trying her key in the door when the victim opened it. That's when the cop shot. Drunk people walk into the wrong homes. It happens. I can't see how this happened if she was sober. |
7th September 2018, 05:29 PM | #146 |
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7th September 2018, 05:31 PM | #147 |
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7th September 2018, 05:33 PM | #148 |
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7th September 2018, 05:47 PM | #149 |
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Yes .. and if I am not mistaken ... if she can establish she honestly thought it WAS her apartment .. that fact it was not may not big a huge factor in a court case.
The prosecution MAY have to proceed as if it were her apartment .... there is a load of case law regarding mistaken domiciles. |
7th September 2018, 05:49 PM | #150 |
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7th September 2018, 05:54 PM | #151 |
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In this case I'm sure that is correct ... but "deadbolt" in some areas (and more often in the past) means an inner lock that does not operate with a key from out side.
Some common Latch Locks can also be dead bolted form inside to Lock Out the key ... and some common American style deadbolts have a future to lockout the key (by moving a secondary lever or simply pushing IN on the inside thumb turn, for two examples) |
7th September 2018, 05:55 PM | #152 |
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7th September 2018, 05:58 PM | #153 |
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7th September 2018, 05:58 PM | #154 |
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This is a training thing. At some point, we stopped teaching police to assess and started teaching them to go for their gun first. Where we once would have taught this officer to move to the door frame and assess the situation, we now teacher her to reach for gun and "stop the threat". I'm not excusing her behavior. She clearly should have known it wasn't her apartment.
We've trained police over the last 15 years to live and operate in a world that doesn't exist. We've trained them to think they are patrolling the streets of a community with an active insurgency inhabiting it instead of their neighbors. She opened the door, and training took over. |
7th September 2018, 06:00 PM | #155 |
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7th September 2018, 06:03 PM | #156 |
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If she was off duty it would be unlikely she had a radio with her ... usually they leave them in the charging station at the office.
Edit ... Maybe I missed ... it seems form more recent posts she HAD a radio with her ... anyone know for sure .. or did she simply telephone it in? |
7th September 2018, 06:06 PM | #157 |
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7th September 2018, 06:08 PM | #158 |
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The latest information (not confirmed) is that she was using a fob or keycard (like a credit card thing) to try to enter, not a traditional metal key inserted into a lock.
Maybe these locks are like in hotels where you put the plastic card into a slot and the lock opens. Maybe they have multiple methods on each door - such as traditional key, keypad for passcode entry, or plastic card. |
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7th September 2018, 06:12 PM | #159 |
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7th September 2018, 06:27 PM | #160 |
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She lives only one block from the Dallas Police Station. I looked on Google Maps. It would be ridiculous for her to drive to and from the station. Between her building and the station is an open parking lot that she can walk straight through.
That doesn't mean that she didn't go somewhere for booze before going home. |
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