IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , James Comey , Michael Flynn , Russia conspiracies , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

Reply
Old 11th June 2017, 11:58 AM   #2401
phiwum
Penultimate Amazing
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 13,384
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Oh, so you don't like me anymore?
Sorry, when did I like you?
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 12:10 PM   #2402
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
I'm curious how many people think Comey should have kept his job solely based on how he handled the Clinton "investigation" leading up to the election.

Aside from all things Trump, I think he screwed up enough to warrant his replacement. I also think Trump is an idiot for handling it like he did and he should have canned him right away, if at all.

Comey's own testimony shows what a fool Comey is.
__________________
Why bother?
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 12:40 PM   #2403
BobTheCoward
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'm curious how many people think Comey should have kept his job solely based on how he handled the Clinton "investigation" leading up to the election.

Aside from all things Trump, I think he screwed up enough to warrant his replacement. I also think Trump is an idiot for handling it like he did and he should have canned him right away, if at all.

Comey's own testimony shows what a fool Comey is.
That would only be relevant if that was part of Trump's decision. It wasn't. Efforts to consider if he should have been fired over the Clinton handling seems really misleading.

By the way, one person who thought he was very brave for it was Trump.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 11th June 2017 at 12:44 PM.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 12:42 PM   #2404
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sorry, when did I like you?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 12:46 PM   #2405
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,423
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'm curious how many people think Comey should have kept his job solely based on how he handled the Clinton "investigation" leading up to the election.

Aside from all things Trump, I think he screwed up enough to warrant his replacement. I also think Trump is an idiot for handling it like he did and he should have canned him right away, if at all.

Comey's own testimony shows what a fool Comey is.
He's leagues more trustworthy than Trump, tho. When impeachment rolls around, Comey's testimony is going to be one of the crucial points that bury Trump and his wretched presidency.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 12:53 PM   #2406
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,511
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
"See? He's not saying anything incriminating because there's nothing there." (paraphrasing) most definitely is using the first clause to prove the second, regardless of how "because" should normally be used.
It sounds like begging the question to me.

"I wanted an automatic transmission."
"Why?"
"Because I didn't want to shift."
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th June 2017, 01:11 PM   #2407
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'm curious how many people think Comey should have kept his job solely based on how he handled the Clinton "investigation" leading up to the election.
Leading question.
I am one who thinks there is no reason he should not have kept his job. As the head of the FBI is typically a job that is served out and not replaced when a new President comes in, yes, he should have kept his job - but not "solely based on how he handled the Clinton investigation", nor at all based on the Clinton investigation, but based on the fact that he ran the FBI ok and there was no reason to replace him.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Aside from all things Trump, I think he screwed up enough to warrant his replacement.
Can you name anything specific?

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Comey's own testimony shows what a fool Comey is.
Can you be specific?
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2017, 09:53 PM   #2408
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Leading question.
I am one who thinks there is no reason he should not have kept his job. As the head of the FBI is typically a job that is served out and not replaced when a new President comes in, yes, he should have kept his job - but not "solely based on how he handled the Clinton investigation", nor at all based on the Clinton investigation, but based on the fact that he ran the FBI ok and there was no reason to replace him.
I disagree. Obama should have fired him the day he testified about the Clinton email inquiry. He violated policy that says the FBI does not comment on ongoing investigations. AND, worse, he went on and on about Clinton's careless mishandling of classified emails. FBI policy says that commenting about the behavior of a person under investigation is strictly forbidden.

Comey may have been a good FBI Director up to then but someone at that level should not be able to violate policy so egregiously and remain in place. After all, his errors arguably affected the outcome of the most important election in American - the election of the President.

So 100% of the error lies with Obama. I speculate that the reason he did not act is that the Republicans would have raised holy hell, claiming that he was attempting to influence the election toward HRC. Tough. He should have acted and taken the heat.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2017, 10:12 PM   #2409
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I disagree. Obama should have fired him the day he testified about the Clinton email inquiry. He violated policy that says the FBI does not comment on ongoing investigations. AND, worse, he went on and on about Clinton's careless mishandling of classified emails. FBI policy says that commenting about the behavior of a person under investigation is strictly forbidden.

Comey may have been a good FBI Director up to then but someone at that level should not be able to violate policy so egregiously and remain in place. After all, his errors arguably affected the outcome of the most important election in American - the election of the President.

So 100% of the error lies with Obama. I speculate that the reason he did not act is that the Republicans would have raised holy hell, claiming that he was attempting to influence the election toward HRC. Tough. He should have acted and taken the heat.
The joke is the suggestion that how Comey handled the Clinton investigation had anything to do at all as to why Trump fired Comey.

I can only think of 2 possible reasons why Trump fired Comey. The first is that Trump panicked when he realized the FBI investigation would continue and the second was that Comey had no interest in being a sycophant like other members of Trump's cabinet.

I still can't get over how servile and obsequious his cabinet was towards Trump during the last cabinet meeting.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2017, 11:01 PM   #2410
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I disagree. Obama should have fired him the day he testified about the Clinton email inquiry. He violated policy that says the FBI does not comment on ongoing investigations. AND, worse, he went on and on about Clinton's careless mishandling of classified emails. FBI policy says that commenting about the behavior of a person under investigation is strictly forbidden.

Comey may have been a good FBI Director up to then but someone at that level should not be able to violate policy so egregiously and remain in place. After all, his errors arguably affected the outcome of the most important election in American - the election of the President.

So 100% of the error lies with Obama. I speculate that the reason he did not act is that the Republicans would have raised holy hell, claiming that he was attempting to influence the election toward HRC. Tough. He should have acted and taken the heat.

I'm pretty sure that if Obama had fired Comey the day he testified about the Clinton email inquiry it would not have been particularly beneficial to Hillary's campaign prospects.

"Kiss of death." would be more likely.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 15th June 2017 at 11:02 PM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 12:00 AM   #2411
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,511
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
So 100% of the error lies with Obama. I speculate that the reason he did not act is that the Republicans would have raised holy hell, claiming that he was attempting to influence the election toward HRC. Tough. He should have acted and taken the heat.
He wouldn't have taken the heat. It would have been all about trashing Hillary. I agree his hesitancy could be maddening. Aside from "we will find Osama bin Laden and we will kill him," he hemmed and hawed quite a bit.

ETA: What Quadraginta said.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I still can't get over how servile and obsequious his cabinet was towards Trump during the last cabinet meeting.
If Betsy DeVos was there, I missed it. I think I watched the whole video. Don't really want to watch it again.

Last edited by Minoosh; 16th June 2017 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Word choice
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 12:31 AM   #2412
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,018
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
If Betsy DeVos was there, I missed it. I think I watched the whole video. Don't really want to watch it again.
DeVos at the creepy cabinet meeting: "It's a privilege to serve, to serve the students of this country, and to work to ensure that every child has an equal opportunity to get a great education, and therefore a great future."
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 12:35 AM   #2413
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,511
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
DeVos at the creepy cabinet meeting: "It's a privilege to serve, to serve the students of this country, and to work to ensure that every child has an equal opportunity to get a great education, and therefore a great future."
Is that all she said? It's a pretty safe statement. No Trump praise though, if that is the whole of her remarks.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 12:50 AM   #2414
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,018
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Is that all she said? It's a pretty safe statement. No Trump praise though, if that is the whole of her remarks.
Yes, that was all.
Here the full video, DeVos at minute 4.
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 12:54 AM   #2415
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,511
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Yes, that was all.
Here the full video, DeVos at minute 4.
I can't say it makes me like her, but the lack of praise is interesting. Maybe she didn't get what she was supposed to do or maybe there is a rift.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th June 2017, 02:38 AM   #2416
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I can't say it makes me like her, but the lack of praise is interesting. Maybe she didn't get what she was supposed to do or maybe there is a rift.

Yeah. She probably didn't understand the lesson.

Education isn't her strong suite.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2017, 06:09 AM   #2417
TofuFighter
Illuminator
 
TofuFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,157
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah. She probably didn't understand the lesson.

Education isn't her strong suite.
I hope you still have time to edit this one.
TofuFighter is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th June 2017, 10:58 AM   #2418
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I hope you still have time to edit this one.

Nah. I don't always catch all my typos.

And there are a lot to catch.

More and more as time goes by.

__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:50 AM   #2419
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
As it has turned out, James Comey lied and leaked and totally protected Hillary Clinton. He was the best thing that ever happened to her!
What was the official reason for firing Comey again?
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:55 AM   #2420
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The best reasons. Everyone says so.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 08:14 AM   #2421
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,557
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
he is taller than Trump.
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 09:13 AM   #2422
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 5,805
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
he is taller than Trump.
I'm much taller than Trump! It gives me pleasure that Trump would immediately despise me because of it.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 09:24 AM   #2423
dasmiller
Just the right amount of cowbell
 
dasmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 6,710
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I'm much taller than Trump! It gives me pleasure that Trump would immediately despise me because of it.
It doesn't work like that. Trump has the best height. Absolutely the best. You won't believe how good his height is, it's that good. Just last week, Michael Jordan or one of those other guys, I don't remember now, but he mentioned how great Trump's height was and how he wished he could have had the same height as Trump.

Your height isn't as good as Trump's, whether it's less or whatever, I don't know, but it's just not as good. He might feel a little sorry for you, with your infreer interfe ifnerior not-so-good height like that, but that's all.
__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

Last edited by dasmiller; 18th October 2017 at 09:26 AM.
dasmiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 10:57 AM   #2424
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,246
Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
It doesn't work like that. Trump has the best height. Absolutely the best. You won't believe how good his height is, it's that good. Just last week, Michael Jordan or one of those other guys, I don't remember now, but he mentioned how great Trump's height was and how he wished he could have had the same height as Trump.

Your height isn't as good as Trump's, whether it's less or whatever, I don't know, but it's just not as good. He might feel a little sorry for you, with your infreer interfe ifnerior not-so-good height like that, but that's all.
Someone told Trump he's taller.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 11:12 AM   #2425
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 5,805
Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
It doesn't work like that. Trump has the best height. Absolutely the best. You won't believe how good his height is, it's that good. Just last week, Michael Jordan or one of those other guys, I don't remember now, but he mentioned how great Trump's height was and how he wished he could have had the same height as Trump.

Your height isn't as good as Trump's, whether it's less or whatever, I don't know, but it's just not as good. He might feel a little sorry for you, with your infreer interfe ifnerior not-so-good height like that, but that's all.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:25 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.