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Tags james millette , kevin ryan , Niels Harrit , paint chips , richard gage , steven jones , wtc

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Old 18th November 2014, 07:59 AM   #4761
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Yes, it is so
1 quart International havester red paint,
16 bucks.

I sillicon carbide aluminum silicate cuting wheel
1dollor 98 cents. Scrap Al and steel free.
1 tank argon gas 85 dollars.

Creates an energtic paint chip that ignites
In argon.

My way was just slightly less expensive
And debunks Jones for good.

Because I have a natural source for energetic chips
Wet paint in the buildings.
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Old 19th November 2014, 08:25 AM   #4762
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Chainsaw,
How great that you did this! I want whatever info you have: photos, etc. Feel free to write me on the private correspondence here. I'm putting out a video about all this and this is an experiment I may wish to include. Chris
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Old 20th November 2014, 04:04 AM   #4763
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Chainsaw,
How great that you did this! I want whatever info you have: photos, etc. Feel free to write me on the private correspondence here. I'm putting out a video about all this and this is an experiment I may wish to include. Chris
As soon as I can I will recreate and videotape
The experiment.

I simply have to redesign the argon containment
Vessel a converted propane tank from a gas
Grill to one with a larger plexiglass window
To allow observation and videotaping.

The window was only 3 Inches by 2 inches in the oridginal
Experiment. That allowed me to observe
But not to videotape.

I borrowed an optical stereo microscope
And found several microspheres left over,
However it did not have photographic
Or video capibillity.
It was just an old scope used by a geologist
To identify minerals.
I am working with no resourses, just what I have. while working
12-16 hours 7 days a week trying to make
A living as an artist and heavy equipment operator.
Oh the cutting disk was a mantibo on a 4
Inch grinder.
. Simply cutting, Al and directing the dust
Towards drying paint makes the paint energetic
Same fuel and Oxidizer as thermite.
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Old 23rd November 2014, 10:25 PM   #4764
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In the houses of appropriation.

Yes. Good idea. Chris M. can make a movie of it. It will be as relevant to the demolitions of WTC as the cartooNIST animation was to the observable Free Fall of Number 7.
I can make - have made and recorded -'thermite' reaction using a 4" cutter wheel thru stainless steel screws into aluminum joinery, too. While it made a flash and a flame that startled the camp, it is not likely to effect Dr. Jims hard work on the back burner; and to equate-extrapolate that basic into 5.87% iron spheroids of the DUST of 911 Free-Fall, is like suggesting the elemental Sulfur found around the Evaporated steel beam ends was formed from Gypsum wallboard and battery acid.
You might also try address how your finding squares with the amounts of energy required to a) explosively disintegrate all concrete flooring, office furniture and over 1000 souls into unidentifiable ppm DUST while mid-air, in an accelerating downward charge through the strongest undamaged structure beneath, and b) fuel the vast underground furnaces burning molten steel for a 13 week post demolition period.

The international skeptics arguing FOR the commission/creatioNIST reports (a wizardry of media all of itself) , would be better employed picking up the Architects and Engineers CHALLENGE to credentialed building experts in arguing the actual science/evidence of demolition.
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Old 24th November 2014, 02:21 AM   #4765
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Originally Posted by remo View Post
You might also try address how your finding squares with the amounts of energy required to a) explosively disintegrate all concrete flooring,
Apparently you're implying that all of the concrete flooring in the WTC towers was disintegrated with explosives as part of purposeful controlled demolition. This notion is laughable on its face for several reasons:

* The purpose of CD is to remove vertical structural support so that a building collapses of its own weight. Blowing up flooring that mostly only supports lateral loading (it does support some vertical loading but only the relatively minor load of people, furniture, office equipment. etcetera... on each floor) would be a complete waste of time, effort and money since once the structure's vertical support is gone gravity takes care of the rest.

* The concrete used for the flooring was a special lightweight concrete designed to hold a relatively light compressive load (people and office furniture) and, since it was supported by corrugated steel plate and trusses, a minimal tensile load. Therefore, it would turn to dust/disintegrate rather easily in the collapse of a 110 story half million metric ton building once the collapse had initiated.

Quote:
office furniture
If you know of any office furniture than can withstand having a half million metric tons from an average of 55 stories dropped on it and still look like office furniture then please provide me a link to who makes it.

Quote:
and over 1000 souls
It's a rather gruesome topic but according to the NY medical examiner, roughly 290 bodies were recovered mostly intact. Many other body parts were found of various sizes but given the amount mass dropped on them many were recovered as small bone fragments.

Quote:
into unidentifiable ppm DUST
PPM refers to very dilute concentrations of materials (usually gases or liquids) and has nothing to do with particle size.

Quote:
while mid-air
I would hardly describe being in middle of the collapse of a half million metric ton 110 story building as being in mid-air.

Quote:
accelerating downward charge
That's how gravity works. Always has, always will.

Quote:
through the strongest undamaged structure beneath
Once the columns at the damaged floors have buckled, the columns of the upper upper tilting part of the structure are no longer aligned with their corresponding structural member below. (nor attached) They punch through the floors and the kinetic energy greatly exceeds the loading capacity of further lower ones as they loads on them are both assymtrical and,.even if they did line up, way beyond their design load.

Quote:
fuel the vast underground furnaces burning molten steel for a 13 week post demolition period.
What is the source of heat you're proposing here? Steel does not remain molten for 13 weeks without an energy source. This is a most basic law of physics and thermodynamics. Maybe it's that 13 week burning version of thermite - ya think?

Quote:
Evaporated steel beam ends
Evaporating steel? Never heard of that before. At what temperature does steel evaporate? I suppose it's possible at very high temperatures (maybe in a vacuum) however, being an alloy, I suspect that it would most likely break down and its individual elements would evaporate at their own unique temperatures.
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Old 24th November 2014, 05:51 AM   #4766
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Originally Posted by remo View Post
You might also try address how your finding squares with the amounts of energy required to a) explosively disintegrate all concrete flooring, office furniture and over 1000 souls into unidentifiable ppm DUST while mid-air...
Haven't you learned by now that every time you repeat this "ppm dust" nonsense you come across as totally ignorant?
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Old 24th November 2014, 06:53 AM   #4767
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Originally Posted by remo View Post
The international skeptics arguing FOR the commission/creatioNIST reports (a wizardry of media all of itself) , would be better employed picking up the Architects and Engineers CHALLENGE to credentialed building experts in arguing the actual science/evidence of demolition.
The AE Challenge is a lie and a con. They have no intention to debate anyone. It is just another ploy to energize the faithful and keep the money flowing to AE Truth.

I have sent AE Truth numinous emails on this subject, and haven’t gotten a single email in response.
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Old 24th November 2014, 07:24 AM   #4768
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Originally Posted by remo View Post
Yes. Good idea. Chris M. can make a movie of it. It will be as relevant to the demolitions of WTC as the cartooNIST animation was to the observable Free Fall of Number 7.
I can make - have made and recorded -'thermite' reaction using a 4" cutter wheel thru stainless steel screws into aluminum joinery, too. While it made a flash and a flame that startled the camp, it is not likely to effect Dr. Jims hard work on the back burner; and to equate-extrapolate that basic into 5.87% iron spheroids of the DUST of 911 Free-Fall, is like suggesting the elemental Sulfur found around the Evaporated steel beam ends was formed from Gypsum wallboard and battery acid.
You might also try address how your finding squares with the amounts of energy required to a) explosively disintegrate all concrete flooring, office furniture and over 1000 souls into unidentifiable ppm DUST while mid-air, in an accelerating downward charge through the strongest undamaged structure beneath, and b) fuel the vast underground furnaces burning molten steel for a 13 week post demolition period.

The international skeptics arguing FOR the commission/creatioNIST reports (a wizardry of media all of itself) , would be better employed picking up the Architects and Engineers CHALLENGE to credentialed building experts in arguing the actual science/evidence of demolition.
Hiya Remo,
What a guy you are! You know very well that not being a scientist, I ask scientists. Interesting that not one scientist or engineer I have contaced has agreed with any aspect of your CD theory. Nada. Zip.
For example: rather than go through Tony's calculations or just believe my buddies here, on the question of whether there was enough energy in the Towers to bring them down once collapses initiated, I asked dozens of physicists. The 14 who were willing to talkj to me said yes there is enough energy once gravity takes over to do it, no question about it. Every one!
As for your pooh-pooh-ing "suggesting the elemental Sulfur found around the Evaporated steel beam ends was formed from Gypsum wallboard and battery acid," I didn't make that up. I went to Jonathan Barnett, the Appendix C author, and those were HIS hypotheses! Why don't you come out of your little coccoon and ask scientists at local universities who are not in this debate, as I have, hundreds of times?
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Old 24th November 2014, 07:26 AM   #4769
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Originally Posted by remo View Post
Yes. Good idea. Chris M. can make a movie of it. It will be as relevant to the demolitions of WTC as the cartooNIST animation was to the observable Free Fall of Number 7.
I can make - have made and recorded -'thermite' reaction using a 4" cutter wheel thru stainless steel screws into aluminum joinery, too. While it made a flash and a flame that startled the camp, it is not likely to effect Dr. Jims hard work on the back burner; and to equate-extrapolate that basic into 5.87% iron spheroids of the DUST of 911 Free-Fall, is like suggesting the elemental Sulfur found around the Evaporated steel beam ends was formed from Gypsum wallboard and battery acid.
You might also try address how your finding squares with the amounts of energy required to a) explosively disintegrate all concrete flooring, office furniture and over 1000 souls into unidentifiable ppm DUST while mid-air, in an accelerating downward charge through the strongest undamaged structure beneath, and b) fuel the vast underground furnaces burning molten steel for a 13 week post demolition period.

The international skeptics arguing FOR the commission/creatioNIST reports (a wizardry of media all of itself) , would be better employed picking up the Architects and Engineers CHALLENGE to credentialed building experts in arguing the actual science/evidence of demolition.
Iron microspheres.are a form of pollution,
They can be found anywhere human have been.
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Old 24th November 2014, 09:26 AM   #4770
Spanx
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Haven't you learned by now that every time you repeat this "ppm dust" nonsense you come across as totally ignorant?
Haven't you learned that a show of ignorance is the goal for remo and fellow truthers
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Old 27th February 2015, 09:07 AM   #4771
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Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
Heating of red/gray chips of four red paints from the yard of our chemical institute

Hi, all
As for me, I have had basically two remaining questions, regarding “mysterious” WTC red/gray chips investigated by Harrit et al and Millette:

1) If Bentham chips (a) to (d) were specifically Laclede primer paint on rust (which is very probable for many pretty good reasons), where are the strontium chromate crystals?

2) Is it a common phenomenon, that when the chips of red paints on rust flakes are heated up to 700 degrees C (heating rate 10 degrees per min), some shiny spherical/round objects are created from the rust („grey layers“)?


Whereas the first question remains basically unanswered, I have finally dediced to arrange some simple experiments, which can help to solve the second, pretty “important” question.

First, here is a repost of my contribution No 3491:
I just visited once again our yard and this time, I scrapped off using lancet only red paints from the rusted steel, from four independent sources, more specifically from some fence, some gate and two kinds of trolleys. Namely in the case of these trolleys, I would expect that the paint is a high quality primer, so perhaps with epoxy or alkyd binder. As for the red color, it can be caused by iron oxides, but can be also caused by lead stuffs.

Here is a photo of the chips, which were attracted with the magnet (about half of them). Then, I transferred them from the magnet to the beaker:


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8118

This tuesday, I asked Dr. Slouf from our Polymer Morphology Department to shot some photos of the chips shown above (these were attracted with magnet, therefore, they are chips of paints on pieces of “magnetically active” rust). Here are shots at two magnifications, chips are placed on brass pedestal: (At the lower magnification, the viewing field is ca 10 mm, at the higher magnification, it is ca 1 mm)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8127

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8128

As you can see, they look quite similar to Bentham chips:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8130

(No wonder, all red paint chips can look quite similar, although they originate from different sources, should have different composition and could be applied using different methods -including electroocoating (for Senenmut.)

You may notice that the rust layers are not well apparent above. It is just matter of playing with the photo. Here is a photo after a simple correction, using just function AutoAdjust colors in IrfanView:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8129

Rust layers are already well visible, but other colors are not so realistic. This shows (among others), how easily can be the colors in micrographs changed and that it is nonsense to compare colors from various microscopes (to MM).

At higher magnification, nothing extraordinary. Just paint chips, like in Bentham paper or Millette study

Yesterday, I asked colleagues from the Department of Conductive Polymers to heat my “fine collection” of red/gray chips in their oven (I used this oven already two years ago for the heating of my Laclede paint imitation). They kindly heated my chips up to 700 degrees (heating rate 10 degrees/min, like in DSC experiments in Bentham paper. Looking just through magnifying glass, the most of chips were still red after heating, but generally darker.

Unfortunately, Dr. Slouf left for his holiday today, so I asked another colleague, Dr. Babic, who kindly microscoped my chips after heating. His microscope is not so good, but basically suffices. (For better photos, we have to wait some week or so. Dr. Babic again microscoped chips at two magnifications:
Here is a scale for the lower magnification:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8137

It follows from this shot that the whole viewing field corresponds to 700 microns, since the distance between larger ticks is 100 microns.
Some photo of chips at this magnification is here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8132

After a closer look, some shiny round objects are hardly visible, but they are somehow resolved at 8x higher magnification:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8133

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8138

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8134

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8139

And here is for comparison the “infamous” Fig. 20, Bentham paper

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8140

I would say that in all these photos, some shiny round objects (formed from the rust layers) are somehow visible. Therefore, their formation from red paints (or perhaps from any paint) on rust, when heated up to 700 degrees C, seems to be a quite common phenomenon) My results so far are not conclusive (I have to wait for the better microscope), round objects in Fig. 20 from Bentham are definitely better "developed"). But I am quite sure that when looking really closely (with a better microscope), I would find the better "examples", it's just a matter of patience... For now, that's all, Dr. Babic was in hurry and had to left for the rest of week...

Thank you for your attention
(And many thanks also to my colleagues, which helped me quite a lot with these “groundbreaking experiments”)

(It would be interesting to measure XEDS of these round objects, we have necessary device in our institute, but I think there is hardly any doubt here: these objects should mostly originate from gray layers, like in Bentham paper And it does not really matter if the content of iron is higher in them because of some partial reduction).
Although Ivan is no longer with us, it's always nice to show his iron rich microspheres.
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Old 27th February 2015, 09:14 AM   #4772
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Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
...Continuation of my post 3540, since Dr. Babic allowed me to use his microscope.

Here is a better overall view on my “red paints ash” at low magnification:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8144

Problem with higher magnification is that "chips" are not really flat, they have some "depth", so it is not easy to focus, some part of the viewed area/chip is inevitably "fuzzy" and two objectives for the highest magnification are unusable.

Here are nevertheless some more details:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8143

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8147

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8146

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8145

My best catch is perhaps still from yesterday:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8133

Except the second picture, those shiny objects are not resolved sufficiently well to consider them as microspheres or even clearly rounded objects, but some resemblance to Bentham chips can be seen. I think. This microscopy lesson showed me that such objects can have metallic shine, only if the ash is illuminated basically from above (using two lightguides in this cases). So apparently, also “Bentham guys” employed such illumination.

Btw, here is a screenshot from the video of Kevin Ryan, where burned Bentham chips are shown on the left, whereas on the right side, there is an ash after burning of real nanothermite:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...pictureid=8148

Ryan put a comment in the sense “Are you able to recognize some differences/to say what is what”?

I’d like to add that my paint ash looks basically like nanothermite ash as well, and perhaps more than the ash from burned Bentham chips Such comparisons are baseless and can have some value only for devoted nanotruthers.

My conclusion would be anyway something like: when heating chips of four accidentally chosen red paints on steel rust flakes, attracted to magnet, up to 700 degrees C (heating rate 10 degrees per minute), some shiny objects with sizes ca between 1 and 5 microns are formed in the ash in some of the chips.
The follow up, if you go to the page mentioned in this post pictures are shown rather than links.

Last edited by Spanx; 27th February 2015 at 09:57 AM.
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Old Today, 01:49 AM   #4773
Spanx
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I've asked Ivan permission to host the images he uploaded so they can be hotlinked to my site so they're available to non-members too. Here they are. The first one (that he repeated in a later post):

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...1377503263.jpg

The second one:

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...1377507324.jpg

Hope that helps.

ETA: Permission is hereby granted to hotlink to them within this forum. I reserve the right to limit access if hotlinked from other sites.
Hi pgimeno,
Did you managed to upload Ivan's images of his red paint chip experiment ?

I know it's on page 89 on this thread where they are visible to members.

It would be nice for all to see and perhaps even have some comments from ae911 truth now they are commenting in this forum.

If there there is a link to your site please can you provide.

Thanks
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Old Today, 04:19 AM   #4774
pgimeno
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Hi pgimeno,
Did you managed to upload Ivan's images of his red paint chip experiment ?

I know it's on page 89 on this thread where they are visible to members.

It would be nice for all to see and perhaps even have some comments from ae911 truth now they are commenting in this forum.

If there there is a link to your site please can you provide.

Thanks
Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about that! Yes he gave me permission to host them, I just didn't have time to get on it.

I'll quote Ivan's posts below with the images replaced. As before, permission is granted for hotlinking within this forum only, and I reserve the right to block other sites.
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Old Today, 04:32 AM   #4775
pgimeno
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Post 1 of 2:
Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
Heating of red/gray chips of four red paints from the yard of our chemical institute

Hi, all
As for me, I have had basically two remaining questions, regarding “mysterious” WTC red/gray chips investigated by Harrit et al and Millette:

1) If Bentham chips (a) to (d) were specifically Laclede primer paint on rust (which is very probable for many pretty good reasons), where are the strontium chromate crystals?

2) Is it a common phenomenon, that when the chips of red paints on rust flakes are heated up to 700 degrees C (heating rate 10 degrees per min), some shiny spherical/round objects are created from the rust („grey layers“)?


Whereas the first question remains basically unanswered, I have finally dediced to arrange some simple experiments, which can help to solve the second, pretty “important” question.

First, here is a repost of my contribution No 3491:
I just visited once again our yard and this time, I scrapped off using lancet only red paints from the rusted steel, from four independent sources, more specifically from some fence, some gate and two kinds of trolleys. Namely in the case of these trolleys, I would expect that the paint is a high quality primer, so perhaps with epoxy or alkyd binder. As for the red color, it can be caused by iron oxides, but can be also caused by lead stuffs.

Here is a photo of the chips, which were attracted with the magnet (about half of them). Then, I transferred them from the magnet to the beaker:




This tuesday, I asked Dr. Slouf from our Polymer Morphology Department to shot some photos of the chips shown above (these were attracted with magnet, therefore, they are chips of paints on pieces of “magnetically active” rust). Here are shots at two magnifications, chips are placed on brass pedestal: (At the lower magnification, the viewing field is ca 10 mm, at the higher magnification, it is ca 1 mm)





As you can see, they look quite similar to Bentham chips:



(No wonder, all red paint chips can look quite similar, although they originate from different sources, should have different composition and could be applied using different methods -including electroocoating (for Senenmut.)

You may notice that the rust layers are not well apparent above. It is just matter of playing with the photo. Here is a photo after a simple correction, using just function AutoAdjust colors in IrfanView:



Rust layers are already well visible, but other colors are not so realistic. This shows (among others), how easily can be the colors in micrographs changed and that it is nonsense to compare colors from various microscopes (to MM).

At higher magnification, nothing extraordinary. Just paint chips, like in Bentham paper or Millette study

Yesterday, I asked colleagues from the Department of Conductive Polymers to heat my “fine collection” of red/gray chips in their oven (I used this oven already two years ago for the heating of my Laclede paint imitation). They kindly heated my chips up to 700 degrees (heating rate 10 degrees/min, like in DSC experiments in Bentham paper. Looking just through magnifying glass, the most of chips were still red after heating, but generally darker.

Unfortunately, Dr. Slouf left for his holiday today, so I asked another colleague, Dr. Babic, who kindly microscoped my chips after heating. His microscope is not so good, but basically suffices. (For better photos, we have to wait some week or so. Dr. Babic again microscoped chips at two magnifications:
Here is a scale for the lower magnification:



It follows from this shot that the whole viewing field corresponds to 700 microns, since the distance between larger ticks is 100 microns.
Some photo of chips at this magnification is here:



After a closer look, some shiny round objects are hardly visible, but they are somehow resolved at 8x higher magnification:









And here is for comparison the “infamous” Fig. 20, Bentham paper



I would say that in all these photos, some shiny round objects (formed from the rust layers) are somehow visible. Therefore, their formation from red paints (or perhaps from any paint) on rust, when heated up to 700 degrees C, seems to be a quite common phenomenon) My results so far are not conclusive (I have to wait for the better microscope), round objects in Fig. 20 from Bentham are definitely better "developed"). But I am quite sure that when looking really closely (with a better microscope), I would find the better "examples", it's just a matter of patience... For now, that's all, Dr. Babic was in hurry and had to left for the rest of week...

Thank you for your attention
(And many thanks also to my colleagues, which helped me quite a lot with these “groundbreaking experiments”)

(It would be interesting to measure XEDS of these round objects, we have necessary device in our institute, but I think there is hardly any doubt here: these objects should mostly originate from gray layers, like in Bentham paper And it does not really matter if the content of iron is higher in them because of some partial reduction).
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Old Today, 04:39 AM   #4776
pgimeno
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Post 2 of 2:
Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
...Continuation of my post 3540, since Dr. Babic allowed me to use his microscope.

Here is a better overall view on my “red paints ash” at low magnification:



Problem with higher magnification is that "chips" are not really flat, they have some "depth", so it is not easy to focus, some part of the viewed area/chip is inevitably "fuzzy" and two objectives for the highest magnification are unusable.

Here are nevertheless some more details:









My best catch is perhaps still from yesterday:



Except the second picture, those shiny objects are not resolved sufficiently well to consider them as microspheres or even clearly rounded objects, but some resemblance to Bentham chips can be seen. I think. This microscopy lesson showed me that such objects can have metallic shine, only if the ash is illuminated basically from above (using two lightguides in this cases). So apparently, also “Bentham guys” employed such illumination.

Btw, here is a screenshot from the video of Kevin Ryan, where burned Bentham chips are shown on the left, whereas on the right side, there is an ash after burning of real nanothermite:



Ryan put a comment in the sense “Are you able to recognize some differences/to say what is what”?

I’d like to add that my paint ash looks basically like nanothermite ash as well, and perhaps more than the ash from burned Bentham chips Such comparisons are baseless and can have some value only for devoted nanotruthers.

My conclusion would be anyway something like: when heating chips of four accidentally chosen red paints on steel rust flakes, attracted to magnet, up to 700 degrees C (heating rate 10 degrees per minute), some shiny objects with sizes ca between 1 and 5 microns are formed in the ash in some of the chips.
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