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Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 17th November 2019, 11:09 AM   #1561
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
When inside the about 30 seconds it took for the officer to perceive "resistance" was he insulting the officer?

Again "resisting arrest" is the go-to "**** you" card used by american police.
None of the clips show the beginning of that encounter either. So I don't know how you can make that presumption. Unless you're party to something the rest of us haven't seen?
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Old 17th November 2019, 11:11 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Old YouTube video of the calmest cop ever:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
27 years later and he would have been tazed within 20 seconds when he ripped the papers from the officer's hands.
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Old 17th November 2019, 11:12 AM   #1563
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
None of the clips show the beginning of that encounter either. So I don't know how you can make that presumption. Unless you're party to something the rest of us haven't seen?
Ah, the good old "but it's not on video"-excuse. Read the articles. They have witness accounts.
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Old 17th November 2019, 11:18 AM   #1564
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Ah, the good old "but it's not on video"-excuse. Read the articles. They have witness accounts.
I have read the articles. I've seen no accounts that suggest such a thing.
Originally Posted by erlando
When inside the about 30 seconds it took for the officer to perceive "resistance" was he insulting the officer?

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 17th November 2019 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Inappropriate snark
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Old 17th November 2019, 04:52 PM   #1565
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
That summation was a word for word copy uttered by the deciding judge. You should note that I never once suggested that a police officer being offended was grounds. Police officers no longer get offended, they are alarmed, distressed and harassed these days.

It is an offence to cause alarm, distress or harassment to anybody, including a police officer, and using foul language is one route to doing so.
And the judge made it clear that the courts will not accept that swearing when talking to a police officer will cause a police officer "alarm, distress or harassment ". It prevents the police from doing what they used to do which was exampled in the court case.
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Old 17th November 2019, 05:25 PM   #1566
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Personally I am glad that my child will not have to go to a school where an armed guard is constantly scrutinising the children ready to shoot them. But I know this is a price US citizens are willing to pay to defend the constitution; indeed it is an object lesson for the pupils in the importance of carrying a weapon and being prepared to kill.

It's just like our Founding Fathers said, "The tree of white male privilege must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of innocent children."
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:52 AM   #1567
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Internal investigation started after cell phone videos shows officer tackling and pinning a 15 year old quadruple amputee to the ground.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ruple-amputee/
To be fair the guy wasn't putting his hands up as ordered. Totally understandable how that refusal to obey instantly would be met with force as per police protocol.
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:55 AM   #1568
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
To be fair the guy wasn't putting his hands up as ordered. Totally understandable how that refusal to obey instantly would be met with force as per police protocol.
Yeah, that and he was seen standing on the seats.
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Old 18th November 2019, 04:58 AM   #1569
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
What actions of the cop do you have a problem with?
Good then we can get rid of qualified immunity thing where the police are immune from the consequences of breaking the law and violating peoples rights as long as they didn't know the law.

Otherwise things like shooting a non aggressive dog and missing killing a kid might be a problem for the cops. I mean it would be totally outrageous to hold them to anything like the standards of normal people.
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Old 18th November 2019, 05:07 AM   #1570
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Old 18th November 2019, 07:54 AM   #1571
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Good then we can get rid of qualified immunity thing where the police are immune from the consequences of breaking the law and violating peoples rights as long as they didn't know the law.

Otherwise things like shooting a non aggressive dog and missing killing a kid might be a problem for the cops. I mean it would be totally outrageous to hold them to anything like the standards of normal people.

I think you are talking about a different cop than I am referring to as I didn't see a kid or a dog.

Cops should be trained on the law, and I see that sometimes they are getting fired and/or prosecuted for their actions.
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Old 18th November 2019, 08:08 AM   #1572
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
I think you are talking about a different cop than I am referring to as I didn't see a kid or a dog.

Cops should be trained on the law, and I see that sometimes they are getting fired and/or prosecuted for their actions.
Qualified immunity is the premise that ignorance of the law is an excuse for a cop. That is a simple statement of fact there.

A police officers use of force is always presumed to be reasonable and above question unless it can be shown that they were knowingly violating the law when they assaulted someone. So tackling the quadrepeligic is of course totally covered even if actually illegal because ignorance of the law is a protection for the police when they violate the law.

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/...edImmunity.pdf

You made a statement about ignorance of the law being no excuse, well it is an excuse for a police officer. But of course holding them to the standards of regular people is ridiculous.
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Old 18th November 2019, 09:10 AM   #1573
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Did you miss the witnesses saying that the police officer walked right past other people eating and drinking coffee on the platform?
And how is that relevant, should I believe this witness? Does the cop have to arrest everyone breaking the law?
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Old 18th November 2019, 01:42 PM   #1574
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Since this thread seems to be long on slurs and short on actual police perspectives, I thought I'd post a couple here that seem relevant to some recent postings in this thread. Donut Operator is one of several police turned you-tubers. His postings seem more articulate and better researched than some of the others to at least the likes of myself. Advance warning for language and possible opposing political viewpoints.

Traffic stops gone awry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1q_VtUzN3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0g...h_sygZ&index=6

Contrary to DO, I suspect that the lady in the second clip may well be sincere; just ignorant.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 18th November 2019 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 18th November 2019, 02:05 PM   #1575
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Since this thread seems to be long on slurs and short on actual police perspectives, I thought I'd post a couple here that seem relevant to some recent postings in this thread. Donut Operator is one of several police turned you-tubers. His postings seem more articulate and better researched than some of the others to at least the likes of myself. Advance warning for language and possible opposing political viewpoints.

Traffic stops gone awry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1q_VtUzN3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0g...h_sygZ&index=6

Contrary to DO, I suspect that the lady in the second clip may well be sincere; just ignorant.
Cool when will he cover why the quad amputee needed to be tackled and the guy filming it needed to be arrested? I mean other than the need to instantly assert control through force at all times.
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Old 18th November 2019, 02:08 PM   #1576
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Cool when will he cover why the quad amputee needed to be tackled and the guy filming it needed to be arrested? I mean other than the need to instantly assert control through force at all times.
I doubt he even knows about it. You could always try sending the guy the clip and asking what his opinion is. Or what the opinions of other (former) LEOs might be on, say, one of the many reddit groups devoted to such things. I'd be interested in hearing the answer myself if you get a response.
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Old 18th November 2019, 02:10 PM   #1577
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I doubt he even knows about it. You could always try sending the guy the clip and asking what his opinion is. Or what the opinions of other (former) LEOs might be on, say, one of the many reddit groups devoted to such things. I'd be interested in hearing the answer myself if you get a response.
Does he actually address the endemic violence that is so much a part of police culture? Or is it just Ra Ra cops?
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Old 18th November 2019, 03:02 PM   #1578
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Qualified immunity is the premise that ignorance of the law is an excuse for a cop. That is a simple statement of fact there.

A police officers use of force is always presumed to be reasonable and above question unless it can be shown that they were knowingly violating the law when they assaulted someone. So tackling the quadrepeligic is of course totally covered even if actually illegal because ignorance of the law is a protection for the police when they violate the law.

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/...edImmunity.pdf

You made a statement about ignorance of the law being no excuse, well it is an excuse for a police officer. But of course holding them to the standards of regular people is ridiculous.
I wasn't commenting on the tackling of a quadriplegic.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:09 AM   #1579
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
I wasn't commenting on the tackling of a quadriplegic.
Yet you felt the need to take issue with the qualified immunity that police have. The point is that this officer is protected like all police if he violates people rights as long as he didn't know the law. That does shoot holes in the premise that ignorance of the law is no excuse, it is for the police.
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Old 19th November 2019, 07:21 AM   #1580
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Does he actually address the endemic violence that is so much a part of police culture? Or is it just Ra Ra cops?
Yeah, we see that a lot.

"Here are examples of cops knocking around high school kids."

"Here's a video of a cop dancing with them. They love him!"

OK, I'm sure that kid that got knocked around feels a lot better now, right?

It's all just an example of "not all cops are bad."
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Old 19th November 2019, 07:25 AM   #1581
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Since this thread seems to be long on slurs and short on actual police perspectives, I thought I'd post a couple here that seem relevant to some recent postings in this thread. Donut Operator is one of several police turned you-tubers. His postings seem more articulate and better researched than some of the others to at least the likes of myself. Advance warning for language and possible opposing political viewpoints.

Traffic stops gone awry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1q_VtUzN3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0g...h_sygZ&index=6

Contrary to DO, I suspect that the lady in the second clip may well be sincere; just ignorant.
Show me the one where they explain why it is morally acceptable for cops to not report the wrongdoings of other cops and then the "not all cops" and "actually" type deflections will have at least some force.
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Old 19th November 2019, 07:27 AM   #1582
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, we see that a lot.

"Here are examples of cops knocking around high school kids."

"Here's a video of a cop dancing with them. They love him!"

OK, I'm sure that kid that got knocked around feels a lot better now, right?

It's all just an example of "not all cops are bad."
Until the "not bad" ones actually take a stand against the bad ones and say stop their union from forcing the department from putting officers fired over killing unarmed men twice in the space of a year, and start driving off their racist and violent coworkers instead of covering for them, they fail to be considered good in my book.

Of course the difference between the bad and not bad cops is often just a matter of timing, I mean the no bad ones know when to turn off their body cameras and make sure no video gets recorded.

As we saw in the murder of Botham Shem Jean the cops who responded made sure to make all efforts to not collect too much evidence by turning off their body cameras as soon as they found out the shooter was a cop. Do they still rate as "not bad cops"?

I want to know exactly how low the bar is.
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Old 19th November 2019, 07:30 AM   #1583
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, we see that a lot.

"Here are examples of cops knocking around high school kids."

"Here's a video of a cop dancing with them. They love him!"

OK, I'm sure that kid that got knocked around feels a lot better now, right?

It's all just an example of "not all cops are bad."
Most street gangs do nice things to show value within a particular community. It gives them some moral cover.
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Old 20th November 2019, 12:03 PM   #1584
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Qualified immunity is the premise that ignorance of the law is an excuse for a cop. That is a simple statement of fact there.

A police officers use of force is always presumed to be reasonable and above question unless it can be shown that they were knowingly violating the law when they assaulted someone. So tackling the quadrepeligic is of course totally covered even if actually illegal because ignorance of the law is a protection for the police when they violate the law.

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/...edImmunity.pdf

You made a statement about ignorance of the law being no excuse, well it is an excuse for a police officer. But of course holding them to the standards of regular people is ridiculous.
Well I watched that video and my interpretation of the Qualified Immunity that you linked to is that that cop won't get it, and hopefully the investigation will get him off the force and in jail.
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Old 20th November 2019, 12:27 PM   #1585
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Well I watched that video and my interpretation of the Qualified Immunity that you linked to is that that cop won't get it, and hopefully the investigation will get him off the force and in jail.
Of course he will get it, they always get it.
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Old 20th November 2019, 01:35 PM   #1586
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course he will get it, they always get it.

Nope, see Rodney King.
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Old 20th November 2019, 01:46 PM   #1587
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Nope, see Rodney King.
Got any source for how Qualified Immunity would play into that? It would mean that King sued the officers as individuals not just the city, and I can find no evidence of that. It is not relevant to criminal cases.

It means that unlike with say OJ Simpson wrongful death suits are not something a police officer who gets off on the murder charge needs to worry about. They can go back to work and know they are in the clear.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:59 PM   #1588
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got any source for how Qualified Immunity would play into that? It would mean that King sued the officers as individuals not just the city, and I can find no evidence of that. It is not relevant to criminal cases.

It means that unlike with say OJ Simpson wrongful death suits are not something a police officer who gets off on the murder charge needs to worry about. They can go back to work and know they are in the clear.
The police officers involved did not get immunity, two of them went to prison.
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Old 21st November 2019, 04:07 AM   #1589
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
The police officers involved did not get immunity, two of them went to prison.
Qualified Immunity has nothing to do with criminal charges. It is when the DA refuses to prosecute or the jury decides shooting a black man because you panic is reasonable that it comes into play.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 08:13 PM   #1590
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Baltimore corrections officers indicted, accused of excessive force and gang activity, state attorney says

Quote:
More than two dozen Baltimore corrections officers were indicted Tuesday on at least 200 charges that they used excessive force on prisoners at state-operated jails in the city, authorities said.

The 25 indicted officers are accused of threatening and assaulting detainees at correctional facilities, as well as tampering with evidence and falsifying documents, said Maryland State Attorney Marlilyn Mosby, whose office secured the indictments.

The charges also include conspiracy to promote and maintain a criminal organization by unlawful means, participation and conspiracy to participate in a criminal gang, and other misconduct charges, according to Fox Baltimore.

Mosby during a news conference said the indictments were the result of a “long-term investigation” after “allegations of force and intimidation.”

She said that “seemingly isolated incidents dating back to 2016" led to the discovery of “multiple examples of excessive force used against detainees in different facilities, which ultimately led to the discovery of a criminal enterprise," among other accusations.

Mosby said 21 of the 25 officers were taken into custody on Tuesday. They were members of a tactical unit with a paramilitary command structure and were operating inside four Baltimore detention facilities.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM   #1591
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Wow something might happen from this, that it truly shocking usually it is just jokes and laughs as the guy dies, as per apparently proper police procedure.

"At least four New York City correction officers failed to act for seven minutes as an 18-year-old detainee tried to hang himself at the Rikers Island jail complex, with some of them watching the suicide attempt before intervening, according to four people with knowledge of the matter."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/n...e-suicide.html
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Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM   #1592
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A suicide attempt sounds like he didn't succeed. They managed to restore a heartbeat, but there's no brain activity. But hey, as long as he has a heartbeat, they can't be charged with his death.
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Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM   #1593
luchog
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post

And yet they're still being treated like anomalies, instead of as evidence of a deeper and more pervasive, systematic cultural problem. The front-line officers might (might) see significant penalties, but how much do you want to bet that the command structure that condoned, actively or tacitly, their behaviour -- or at best failed to provide sufficient oversight -- will get off without so much as an official reprimand.

Quote:
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said in a statement that with the latest round of indictments, anti-corruption efforts have led to the convictions of more than 200 officers, inmates and citizen accomplices.

“Our correctional officers have one of the most difficult jobs in all of public safety, and we will not let the criminal behavior of the few tarnish the great work of the nearly 5,000 dedicated officers who serve with distinction every single day,” Hogan said.

Emphasis added.
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Old Yesterday, 02:06 PM   #1594
Mumbles
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wow something might happen from this, that it truly shocking usually it is just jokes and laughs as the guy dies, as per apparently proper police procedure.

"At least four New York City correction officers failed to act for seven minutes as an 18-year-old detainee tried to hang himself at the Rikers Island jail complex, with some of them watching the suicide attempt before intervening, according to four people with knowledge of the matter."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/n...e-suicide.html
I'll say it again: Riker's should be shut down entirely. I'm not a prison abolitionist, and I don't even necessarily agree that every nonviolent offender shouldn't be in prison - pension raiding and other serious financial crimes, repeated DUIs when all else has failed, even if nobody else is hurt, and the like qualify. But we do need to rethink use of solitary, strongly consider closing plainly out of control facilities like Riker's, and simply reform what's illegal to begin with.

(Ah, also, a complete ban on private prisons - to folks outside of the US, do y'all even have any private prisons? I've never heard of it in any other country, but just want to check.)
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM   #1595
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I'll say it again: Riker's should be shut down entirely. I'm not a prison abolitionist, and I don't even necessarily agree that every nonviolent offender shouldn't be in prison - pension raiding and other serious financial crimes, repeated DUIs when all else has failed, even if nobody else is hurt, and the like qualify. But we do need to rethink use of solitary, strongly consider closing plainly out of control facilities like Riker's, and simply reform what's illegal to begin with.

(Ah, also, a complete ban on private prisons - to folks outside of the US, do y'all even have any private prisons? I've never heard of it in any other country, but just want to check.)
We do in the UK.
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM   #1596
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Since this thread seems to be long on slurs and short on actual police perspectives, I thought I'd post a couple here that seem relevant to some recent postings in this thread. Donut Operator is one of several police turned you-tubers. His postings seem more articulate and better researched than some of the others to at least the likes of myself. Advance warning for language and possible opposing political viewpoints.

Traffic stops gone awry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1q_VtUzN3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0g...h_sygZ&index=6

Contrary to DO, I suspect that the lady in the second clip may well be sincere; just ignorant.
I watched a number of his videos. Some do make fair points. He does however err on the side of what cops may legally be allowed to do as opposed to what is wise. There is one video of a woman being dragged out of her car by her hair who apparently had panicked and 'fled the scene' for two blocks before stopping. There seemed to be no attempt at asking her to vacate the car or defuse the situation. Legal may be, but certainly not use of minimal force.

There is also his review of a case mentioned above of an arrest of parents of a four year old child who 'stole' a barbie doll. Even DO had to admit there were some anger management issues. However he did reference that the father was accused of shoplifting in addition - a charge he was subsequently not convicted of. (So is innocent of.) In any case he failed to comment on the fact that it seemed particularly dangerous to be pointing a gun at a woman carrying her child (and unnecessary - what was she going to do with arms full of child?). It would be better if he could come out and say this is poor policing. Policing should not just be about what is legally justifiable but the least use of force.
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