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#81 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 3,445
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Rick Reilly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWLj2-a6FLI ETA: Haven't watched recently, not sure who won. |
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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#82 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 26,674
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The only problem with this concept is that Trump supporters aren't about to let themselves be smoothed. And they will see any efforts to let matters slide "for the good of the country" as a sucker move. Doing nothing but demonstrating what bleeding hearts the tree-hugging leebruls are. There's no benefit in going that route. But they do understand punishment and consequences. if you want to get through to them you have to do it on their own terms. And they don't understand or respect 'Mr. Nice Guy'. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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#83 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 19,682
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Not sure if there are any sealed indictments remaining.
As much as I like the idea of stubby Mcbonespurs indicted as a holdover from the Mueller probe, I doubt that would happen. Mueller didn't delve too deeply into Trump himself (I don't think he investigated his financials for example, and he didn't push for an interview). Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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#84 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 3,445
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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#85 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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Certainly there will be festering resentments, but there's no way to avoid that. I'd personally like to see Trump in prison -- the law should take its course -- but I don't think Biden will agree. He'll want to mend fences, because that's who he is.
In any case, you can't try to second guess people as irrational as Trump's base. You'll just go crazy doing that, and you'll never please them anyway. |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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#86 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,546
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Yes.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-championships there is the story when he got is ass handed to him by a then 15-year old named Adam Levin despite Trump cheating like hell. He never admitted he lost and instead proclaimed:"The kid put up a good fight, didn’t he?” |
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"The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust |
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#87 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,265
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The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
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#88 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War
Posts: 53,808
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I'd like to see him make a deal with Pence. On Jan. 19, Trump pardons Pence for anything he may have done, then he resigns with the expectation that Pence will pardon him. Then Pence says "Um, about that pardon..."
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"Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane |
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#89 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 108,117
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#90 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 108,117
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#91 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 108,117
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#92 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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#93 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War
Posts: 53,808
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Even if he did, which I don't think he will, he can't pardon him for state and local crimes. The state of New York is coming after him.
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"Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane |
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#94 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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#95 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,238
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I don’t think Biden will pardon him. Hopefully he creates an image of a justice system independent of politics.
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#96 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,357
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I'm long past sick to death of the rich and privileged effectively getting away with criming. Some poor short order cook tossing salads that sicken patrons could face a stiffer penalty that Trump negligently letting the better part of a quarter million (let that number sink in) people die of a pandemic that most of the rest of the world dealt with more sensibly.
For the white collar set, it's a version of the old saw that goes, "If you owe the bank a thousand you have a problem. If you owe them a hundred mil, the bank has a problem." The higher a person's station, the less a problem for them when caught criming. Utterly egregiously so, too often. Why does society so readily overlook ghastly malfeasance by the upper crust? If it comes down to the lawyers their money can buy, well, that's a societal sickness, too. A society can never be content while obscene disparities in the justice system exist. I'm hoping the State-level prosecutors get to grips with Trump and company. If this past 4 years of debauchery does not warrant a criminal investigation and proceeding, then almost nothing could. Might as well make it a law that the political ruling class is above the law. |
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#97 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19,546
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Biden's pitch is that Trump isn't a "true" Republican, and that without him bipartisanship is once more possible.
He wants to reconcile with Republican establishment, not with Trump personally. I doubt he will pardon him, but he won't try to ruin him, either. |
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"The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust |
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#98 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 14,227
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First thing I would do is to revoke Trump's passport. He is a flight risk for sure. The grounds would be the significant debt he owes the IRS.
Quote:
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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#99 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,357
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As to holding to account Trump and fellow travelers, Biden need have no involvement at all. Indeed, he MUST be removed from all proceedings. It has nothing to do with him. No bias, no input, no comment. (Unlike Drumpf, for whom the DoJ was his personal attack dog.) The apparatus of the justice system can do its work without fear or favor just fine all by itself. As it must.
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#100 |
Beauf
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,446
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I agree about not actively commenting. If asked about it, it gives him a great opportunity to express his confidence that the different parts of the justice system will go about their work according to their mandates without political interference. A nice line drawn under the previous administration.
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"But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?" |
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#101 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
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#102 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,238
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Oh he is a criminal. He’s just going to get away with some stuff and hopefully get caught for some other stuff.
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#103 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
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Sure, but any olive branch to make peace with trump supporters, or give them a road back, of the sort eerok seemed to be discussing needs to be seen from the perspective of Trump supporters, not your perspective. You can't just insist they interpret the past 4 years as a criminal white supremacist dictatorship and take everything that now happens as part of that narrative.
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#104 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 108,117
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#105 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,238
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#106 |
Disorder of Kilopi
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 16,939
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Of all the things I would choose to reveal asap is the actual full transcript of Trump's call with the Ukraine, less mandatory redactions, assuming the mangled summary made public is not indicative of the whole, which I greatly suspect. Then I would pin a medal on Alexander Vindman's chest with top brass from all branches of the military looking on in the Rose Garden. Quite sure Vindman would have buttoned lip if there were not actual corruption on display.
Pageantry and clean, rule-of-law patriotism, in full-on repudiation of Trumpism, at the WH. Soonest. This is the way to nail the bastard quickly. |
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His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp |
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#107 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,915
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Beau of the Fifth eloquently explains why this is a terrible idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c66IQQrmXeo |
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So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX |
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#108 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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#109 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,080
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A world where Trump gets away with his flagrant, if petty, illegality, is in some measure a continuation of the topsy turvy grotesquery of a Trumpistan where actions and consequences do not correlate, where anything goes, where right and wrong and legality and illegality and truth and falsehood are meaningless terms.
True, past Presidents have got away with things they shouldn't have got away with. But that whataboutism mustn't stand in the way of Trump being made to pay for his actual illegalities, embarrassingly petty though they'll turn out to be for someone who was the most powerful man in the world (assuming there were no actual clearly-spelt-out deals with Russia for instance, which I doubt). This crazy world Trump had helped conjure up, or at least bring to the fore, needs to be set right again. A pardon will, in this context, be a very bad idea. Also, an actual trial, or trials, and sentencing, will help keep the crazies in check now. Crazies, the foremost of them Trump himself, who'll no doubt otherwise do their damnest to create trouble, and somehow halt any correction of, for instance, the Covid situation. Showing these idiots that their craziness carries consequences, personal consequences, is probably the only way to keep (most of) them in check. Another reason why a pardon wouldn't, IMO, be a good idea. |
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#110 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,708
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Easy prediction. Some mysterious internet personality--let's call him Z--will begin posting after Biden's inauguration about how Trump has been secretly indicted and convicted, and that he's wearing an ankle monitor.
Z-anon, coming to this forum in late January. |
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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#111 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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Historically Trump has been a scofflaw, and he's been treated with kid gloves. This is not even debatable. Who else could run a blatantly crooked charity, and walk away without an indictment? Blatantly crooked university, same. Blatant tax fraud, same. He's crapped all over the emoluments clause, profiting from his office hand over fist. This is even before you get to the arguably more debatable crimes flowing from the Russian and Ukrainian debacles. And there's likely a lot more to come. He's a criminal. It's a lifestyle.
The delusions of Trump's base shouldn't guide the law. This election showed that America didn't reject conservatism, they rejected Trump. (This is a paraphrase from a Republican senator.) I don't think Trump can be propped up as a hero any more, and I don't think he deserves kid gloves or untouchable status any more. That being said, I'm curious what Biden will do about it. Perhaps the smart choice is to do nothing, and let the law take its course. I still say he might pardon Trump, even if I hope he doesn't. ETA: Also, Trump is a Trumplican, never a Republican, and never a conservative. |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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#112 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,067
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#113 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
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I am in "Biden does nothing about Trump either positive or negative" camp. If anything, he should ensure that justice and due process works.
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Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's. |
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#114 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
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I wasn't talking about whether he was criminal. I was saying that if one wanted to make a magnanimous gesture to a group of people "to bring the country together", you have to do it such that it will be taken as such from their perspective. Otherwise you are just playing to the peanut gallery of your own side.
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#115 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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#116 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
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OK, but now we are no longer talking about "mending America".
OK, in that case you are not talking about mending bridges, bringing the country together etc. I thought you were. The decision to go after or not to go after Trump will be political. It may be dressed up in process, but you are dreaming if you think it won't be political. I more or less agree with you one this about the Republican part. He does have some conservative tendencies though. |
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#117 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,400
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Trump had Obama investigated for spying on the Trump campaign.
The 'let it go' train has left the station by trumps own hand. |
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- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
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#118 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,094
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You think prosecuting him is going to do that when impeachment, and Russiagate didn't? All you are talking about here is pursuing the same strategy yet again, but even more loudly and forcefully. They already think your side are authoritarian liars, all your plan will do is reinforce that.
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#119 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
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Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's. |
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#120 |
Quixoticist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,381
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Well, these are the facts. Whatever Biden does remains to be seen.
I was speculating on what Biden might do, but I don't know what this will be. "Mending bridges" can be conceived and implemented in more than one way. Everything about this is political, but the process, whatever form it takes, will follow the law, and I'd expect any possible indictments against Trump to be scrupulously formed in this respect. This is perhaps the most important point. Once the GOP gets back to work, Trump is meaningless, and I think that much of the GOP, the power brokers, were sick to death of him in any case. Trump never represented the GOP. He was their populist useful idiot. |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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