Criminal Charges Against Trump - Page 8

Emily's Cat · 24th November 2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

[i]
Well, she was an employee... It is not normal for someone to both draw a salary AND get paid as a consultant, since whatever was done under the guise of being a consultant could probably be done under the person's regular work as an employee.

Caveat from the get-go: I don't have any deep knowledge of how Trump Org. is structured, and what follows is complete and utter speculation, intended as a discussion point for a plausible scenario in which a consulting fee could reasonably be paid. I have absolutely zero solid information for this, it is 100% speculation and nothing else.

If Trump Org. is a holding company, it might be okay for Ivanka to be paid as a consultant for work done with one of the subsidiaries, if she were not an employee of that subsidiary specifically.

One of my prior employer was a holding company, and had several subsidiaries of diverse natures. Some of them were customers of another.
For example, one was a reinsurance company, another was a health insurance company, and the reinsurance company sold services to the health insurance company. Similarly, one subsidiary was a brokerage company that sold policies for many insurers, including competitors of the company that was a sibling under the holding company.

There were times where we had to get a bit creative trying to do work between subsidiaries that included competition or potential conflicts of interest. I don't recall specifics, but I could see an argument where an employee of the holding company (or one of the subsidiaries) did work for a different subsidiary on a consulting basis, in order to retain some separation of duties.

Like I said, this is speculative, so grain of salt and all that.

Dave Rogers · 24th November 2020, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by No Other

Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office.

If the matter under discussion were solely the crimes alleged to have been committed by Trump while in office, your thoughts would be relevant.

Dave

psionl0 · 25th November 2020, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by blutoski

No, private companies SOP is to issue dividends to owners, if the taxes work out better. Dividends are taxed differently than earned income, is the rationale.

Just as an example, here in Canada, my wife's company has 10,000 shares, and her parents have a minority stake. The sole reason for this was to issue them dividends to supplement their income. (The expression is "income sprinkling") - this was disallowed 2 years ago and we no longer do this.

A classic example of what happens when politicians look after their rich mates.

In Australia, dividends form part of your taxable income and can put you in a higher tax bracket. The difference is that dividends are tax imputed meaning that part of your taxable dividend has already been sent to the tax man and becomes a credit for tax already paid.

Stacyhs · 25th November 2020, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by No Other

Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses, as in some cases it is quite extensive, as this is not a party driven activity... it is a power driven activity that is sanctioned and practiced by the two political parties.

I can't remember Obama being investigated for crimes being committed before or during his time in office. I mean, actual investigations by attorneys general and not just allegations by politicians screaming for their 5 minutes of attention.

There's a reason Trump has fought so desperately to keep his taxes from being released. You don't spend this much money fighting to keep your taxes secret unless you're scared of what they'll reveal. He's a crook.

smartcooky · 29th November 2020, 11:27 PM

https://leftcoastnetwork.com/video/t...r-his-rallies/

The City of El Paso TX is after him for non-payment of his rallies

Norman Alexander · 29th November 2020, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by No Other

Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses, as in some cases it is quite extensive, as this is not a party driven activity... it is a power driven activity that is sanctioned and practiced by the two political parties.

Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office.

Obama=?
GW Bush=?
Clinton=?
HG Bush=?
Reagan=?
Carter=?
Ford=?

Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/

smartcooky · 30th November 2020, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by No Other

Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized.

If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree.

Originally Posted by No Other

I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses

So, you're making a claim but will not be supporting that claim with evidence.

Got it!

Stacyhs · 30th November 2020, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree.

So, you're making a claim but will not be supporting that claim with evidence.

Got it!

That seems to be par for the course nowadays, innit?

Susheel · 30th November 2020, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree....

Don't the people of XXX in Terry Pratchett's discworld arrest its Prime Minister the moment he is elected?

cullennz · 30th November 2020, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office.

Obama=?
GW Bush=?
Clinton=?
HG Bush=?
Reagan=?
Carter=?
Ford=?

Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/

I think you are twisting the posters claim.

Forgive me my atrocious spelling from my wee phone keyboard.

"Who did not commit crimes while in office"

You "faced trial for on leaving office"

EHocking · 30th November 2020, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Don't the people of XXX in Terry Pratchett's discworld arrest its Prime Minister the moment he is elected?

You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks.

XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager.

The Great Zaganza · 30th November 2020, 01:40 AM

All in all, it would safe a lot of time if the President would spend one of his/her 4 years in office in jail.

Susheel · 30th November 2020, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks.

XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager.

It's been quite a few years since I read it and my age and certain lifestyle choices haven't been conducive to a good memory.

Yup...you are right.

smartcooky · 30th November 2020, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by EHocking

You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks.

XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager.

Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX !

Norman Alexander · 30th November 2020, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by cullennz

I think you are twisting the posters claim.

Forgive me my atrocious spelling from my wee phone keyboard.

"Who did not commit crimes while in office"

You "faced trial for on leaving office"

It's vague, isn't it. I read it more fully as "Who committed crimes in office but did not face legal ramifications thereof after leaving office."

Norman Alexander · 30th November 2020, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX !

Queenslanders can't spell "quasiantichurchdisestablishmentarianism" in four letters?

Skeptic Ginger · 30th November 2020, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office.

Obama=?
GW Bush=?
Clinton=?
HG Bush=?
Reagan=?
Carter=?
Ford=?

Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/

I only know a couple without checking.

GW - I think there are war crimes there which are prosecutable. He also abused the DoJ to manipulate elections. And there was caging, also to influence elections.

Bill Clinton - Not sure the money schemes were illegal. Sweetheart deals is what they are called. And there were sex crimes that at least should have either gone to court or publicly dropped. Instead the record is clouded.

Reagan - Iran-Contra is well known. And I believe there was a deal to get the hostages released after he was elected.

Carter - I'm not aware of anything.

Ford - I only know Agnew was out and Ford was in specifically to pardon Nixon. Not illegal.

Obama and Sr Bush - I'm not aware of anything.

Norman Alexander · 30th November 2020, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I only know a couple without checking.

GW - I think there are war crimes there which are prosecutable. He also abused the DoJ to manipulate elections. And there was caging, also to influence elections.

Bill Clinton - Not sure the money schemes were illegal. Sweetheart deals is what they are called. And there were sex crimes that at least should have either gone to court or publicly dropped. Instead the record is clouded.

Reagan - Iran-Contra is well known. And I believe there was a deal to get the hostages released after he was elected.

Carter - I'm not aware of anything.

Ford - I only know Agnew was out and Ford was in specifically to pardon Nixon. Not illegal.

Obama and Sr Bush - I'm not aware of anything.

I'm sure we can find more. But did any of them face charges and/or court personally as a result? As far as I'm aware, they all walked away scot-free when they left the office.

Skeptic Ginger · 30th November 2020, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm sure we can find more. But did any of them face charges and/or court personally as a result? As far as I'm aware, they all walked away scot-free when they left the office.

Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call.

What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs.

He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks.

Norman Alexander · 30th November 2020, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call.

What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs.

He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks.

As far as I'm aware, several states want to have a sit-down with him about some of these things. There will be "a spirited search for the truth", at which point Donny will blab and bluster and blunder his way into numerous serious charges being laid. There is the distinct possibility federal law officers will be invited to this party. After this, his attorney will cry himself to sleep.

Emily's Cat · 30th November 2020, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by EHocking

You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks.

XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager.

Whereas Dos Equis is merely mediocre.

EHocking · 30th November 2020, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX !

of course I do, not being from god’s waiting room. it is an old stale joke.

And spelled Castlemaine

EHocking · 30th November 2020, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Susheel

It's been quite a few years since I read it and my age and certain lifestyle choices haven't been conducive to a good memory.

Yup...you are right.

It is ISF after all.
What’s a bit of pendantry between friends?

The Great Zaganza · 1st December 2020, 04:44 AM

Trump should be criminally investigated and, if feasible, charged for the Obstruction found by Mueller.
That should be a no-brainer for anyone who believes in the Separation of Power.

And, of course, we need to investigate the failure of the Trump Administration to deal with the Coronavirus.
That might lead to further charges.

these have nothing to do with retaliation and everything to do with saving lives and democracy.

Trebuchet · 2nd December 2020, 06:05 PM

One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits.

The Great Zaganza · 4th December 2020, 04:47 AM

It was Kushner who was the go-between to buy Pardons from Trump:

https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...0-12?r=DE&IR=T

Chanakya · 4th December 2020, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits.

If he "manages" to actually get pardoned, then it'll be Biden he'll have managed. That would be squarely on Biden, isn't it?

Squeegee Beckenheim · 4th December 2020, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It was Kushner who was the go-between to buy Pardons from Trump:

https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...0-12?r=DE&IR=T

That's not what that article says. It identifies Abbe Lowell, an attorney for Kushner as being the go-between.

Segnosaur · 17th December 2020, 08:30 AM

Don't recall this being mentioned in any of the other threads, but it seems relevant here....

From: Global News (the major Canadian TV network, not the conspiracy site)
Judge Arthur Engoron said the Trump Organization must turn over to the New York attorney general’s office all communications involving Ralph Mastromonaco, an engineer who worked on the Seven Springs estate in Westchester County, north of Manhattan....Attorney General Letitia James’ investigators are looking at how the Trump Organization and its agents assessed the value of Seven Springs

This is a civil case, so by itself would not directly relate to criminal charges against Trump. But, I'm sure any evidence they turn up might be useful in any fraud charges.

Trebuchet · 17th December 2020, 11:23 AM

He'll be claiming Presidential privilege somehow or another! Or having Crazy Rudi do it for him.

CORed · 17th December 2020, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call.

What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs.

He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks.

As for GW Bush, I agree with you on the torture. As for getting into the Iran war, I was never certain whether it was a case of lying or a case of error and self delusion. I suspect that, to a large degree, he cherry-picked himmself into believing his own ********.

Mader Levap · 17th December 2020, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by CORed

As for GW Bush, I agree with you on the torture. As for getting into the Iran war, I was never certain whether it was a case of lying or a case of error and self delusion. I suspect that, to a large degree, he cherry-picked himmself into believing his own ********.

Personally, I do not see any reason to give any benefit of doubt to war criminal.

acbytesla · 17th December 2020, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits.

No, I don't think so. I suppose he might pardon himself, but that is legally questionable. Biden is not going to pardon him and I doubt if he resigned Pence would either.

eerok · 17th December 2020, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

No, I don't think so. I suppose he might pardon himself, but that is legally questionable. Biden is not going to pardon him and I doubt if he resigned Pence would either.

I can't imagine Trump's ego would allow him to resign even briefly to get a pardon from Pence. He'll try to pardon himself for sure, and there's a solid chance it will fail. Failure and BS are Trump's superpowers in any case.

Stacyhs · 18th December 2020, 01:56 AM

Just a thought: Trump saves face by pretending to need surgery so goes under anesthesia. Section 3 of the 25 Amendment is invoked and Pence temporarily becomes president. Pence pardons Trump. Section 3 says "such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President." This way Trump doesn't have to resign and doesn't have to take a change on the legality of pardoning himself. Would this be feasible?

The Great Zaganza · 18th December 2020, 02:05 AM

Sure.
completely transparent and lame, but sure.

dirtywick · 19th December 2020, 03:32 AM

I don’t know why Pence would agree to do that

blutoski · 19th December 2020, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

I don’t know why Pence would agree to do that

Perhaps to secure pardons from Trump.

"[Criss cross!]"

acbytesla · 19th December 2020, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call.

What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs.

He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks.

I don't think that dog will hunt.

Deutsche Bank while certainly based in Germany has offices and branches in the United States. These were loans for an American business that involved American properties. Seems a stretch to say that loans that they provided were somehow exempt from US laws.

alfaniner · 19th December 2020, 11:22 AM

Fortunately, Federal pardons will have no effect at the State level. I think New York has a few things planned for after Jan 20.

24th November 2020, 09:50 AM	#281
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,073	Originally Posted by Segnosaur [i] Well, she was an employee... It is not normal for someone to both draw a salary AND get paid as a consultant, since whatever was done under the guise of being a consultant could probably be done under the person's regular work as an employee. Caveat from the get-go: I don't have any deep knowledge of how Trump Org. is structured, and what follows is complete and utter speculation, intended as a discussion point for a plausible scenario in which a consulting fee could reasonably be paid. I have absolutely zero solid information for this, it is 100% speculation and nothing else. If Trump Org. is a holding company, it might be okay for Ivanka to be paid as a consultant for work done with one of the subsidiaries, if she were not an employee of that subsidiary specifically. One of my prior employer was a holding company, and had several subsidiaries of diverse natures. Some of them were customers of another. For example, one was a reinsurance company, another was a health insurance company, and the reinsurance company sold services to the health insurance company. Similarly, one subsidiary was a brokerage company that sold policies for many insurers, including competitors of the company that was a sibling under the holding company. There were times where we had to get a bit creative trying to do work between subsidiaries that included competition or potential conflicts of interest. I don't recall specifics, but I could see an argument where an employee of the holding company (or one of the subsidiaries) did work for a different subsidiary on a consulting basis, in order to retain some separation of duties. Like I said, this is speculative, so grain of salt and all that.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

24th November 2020, 10:09 AM	#282
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 33,719	Originally Posted by No Other Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. If the matter under discussion were solely the crimes alleged to have been committed by Trump while in office, your thoughts would be relevant. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

25th November 2020, 01:11 AM	#283
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 19,925	Originally Posted by blutoski No, private companies SOP is to issue dividends to owners, if the taxes work out better. Dividends are taxed differently than earned income, is the rationale. Just as an example, here in Canada, my wife's company has 10,000 shares, and her parents have a minority stake. The sole reason for this was to issue them dividends to supplement their income. (The expression is "income sprinkling") - this was disallowed 2 years ago and we no longer do this. A classic example of what happens when politicians look after their rich mates. In Australia, dividends form part of your taxable income and can put you in a higher tax bracket. The difference is that dividends are tax imputed meaning that part of your taxable dividend has already been sent to the tax man and becomes a credit for tax already paid.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

29th November 2020, 11:27 PM	#285
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,116	https://leftcoastnetwork.com/video/t...r-his-rallies/ The City of El Paso TX is after him for non-payment of his rallies
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

29th November 2020, 11:40 PM	#286
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,227	Originally Posted by No Other Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses, as in some cases it is quite extensive, as this is not a party driven activity... it is a power driven activity that is sanctioned and practiced by the two political parties. Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office. Obama=? GW Bush=? Clinton=? HG Bush=? Reagan=? Carter=? Ford=? Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

25th November 2020, 01:28 AM	#284
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Originally Posted by No Other Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses, as in some cases it is quite extensive, as this is not a party driven activity... it is a power driven activity that is sanctioned and practiced by the two political parties. I can't remember Obama being investigated for crimes being committed before or during his time in office. I mean, actual investigations by attorneys general and not just allegations by politicians screaming for their 5 minutes of attention. There's a reason Trump has fought so desperately to keep his taxes from being released. You don't spend this much money fighting to keep your taxes secret unless you're scared of what they'll reveal. He's a crook.

30th November 2020, 12:55 AM	#287
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,116	Originally Posted by No Other Maybe we should put every President on trial after his/her Administration leaves office. This way partisanship (at least at the filing suit level) is minimized. If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree. Originally Posted by No Other I cannot think of one President (maybe Jimmy Carter... maybe) who did not commit crimes while in office. There is no need for me to delineate each and every President on their offenses So, you're making a claim but will not be supporting that claim with evidence. Got it!
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

30th November 2020, 01:12 AM	#288
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Originally Posted by smartcooky If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree. So, you're making a claim but will not be supporting that claim with evidence. Got it! That seems to be par for the course nowadays, innit?

30th November 2020, 01:23 AM	#289
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,086	Originally Posted by smartcooky If they have committed criminal acts, then I agree.... Don't the people of XXX in Terry Pratchett's discworld arrest its Prime Minister the moment he is elected?
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

30th November 2020, 01:29 AM	#290
cullennz Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NZ Posts: 21,318	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office. Obama=? GW Bush=? Clinton=? HG Bush=? Reagan=? Carter=? Ford=? Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/ I think you are twisting the posters claim. Forgive me my atrocious spelling from my wee phone keyboard. "Who did not commit crimes while in office" You "faced trial for on leaving office"
	Last edited by cullennz; 30th November 2020 at 01:32 AM.

30th November 2020, 01:35 AM	#291
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	Originally Posted by Susheel Don't the people of XXX in Terry Pratchett's discworld arrest its Prime Minister the moment he is elected? You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks. XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager.
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	__________________ Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite

30th November 2020, 01:40 AM	#292
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,546	All in all, it would safe a lot of time if the President would spend one of his/her 4 years in office in jail.
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

30th November 2020, 01:49 AM	#293
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,086	Originally Posted by EHocking You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks. XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager. It's been quite a few years since I read it and my age and certain lifestyle choices haven't been conducive to a good memory. Yup...you are right.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

30th November 2020, 02:16 AM	#294
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,116	Originally Posted by EHocking You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks. XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager. Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX !
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

30th November 2020, 02:24 AM	#295
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,227	Originally Posted by cullennz I think you are twisting the posters claim. Forgive me my atrocious spelling from my wee phone keyboard. "Who did not commit crimes while in office" You "faced trial for on leaving office" It's vague, isn't it. I read it more fully as "Who committed crimes in office but did not face legal ramifications thereof after leaving office."
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th November 2020, 02:25 AM	#296
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,227	Originally Posted by smartcooky Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX ! Queenslanders can't spell "quasiantichurchdisestablishmentarianism" in four letters?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th November 2020, 02:38 AM	#297
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,401	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Would you be so kind as to list all the official crimes that each of the last, say, half-dozen presidents actually had pressed and faced trial for on leaving office. Obama=? GW Bush=? Clinton=? HG Bush=? Reagan=? Carter=? Ford=? Some Cliff Notes: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/616804/ I only know a couple without checking. GW - I think there are war crimes there which are prosecutable. He also abused the DoJ to manipulate elections. And there was caging, also to influence elections. Bill Clinton - Not sure the money schemes were illegal. Sweetheart deals is what they are called. And there were sex crimes that at least should have either gone to court or publicly dropped. Instead the record is clouded. Reagan - Iran-Contra is well known. And I believe there was a deal to get the hostages released after he was elected. Carter - I'm not aware of anything. Ford - I only know Agnew was out and Ford was in specifically to pardon Nixon. Not illegal. Obama and Sr Bush - I'm not aware of anything.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 30th November 2020 at 02:39 AM.

30th November 2020, 02:47 AM	#298
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,227	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I only know a couple without checking. GW - I think there are war crimes there which are prosecutable. He also abused the DoJ to manipulate elections. And there was caging, also to influence elections. Bill Clinton - Not sure the money schemes were illegal. Sweetheart deals is what they are called. And there were sex crimes that at least should have either gone to court or publicly dropped. Instead the record is clouded. Reagan - Iran-Contra is well known. And I believe there was a deal to get the hostages released after he was elected. Carter - I'm not aware of anything. Ford - I only know Agnew was out and Ford was in specifically to pardon Nixon. Not illegal. Obama and Sr Bush - I'm not aware of anything. I'm sure we can find more. But did any of them face charges and/or court personally as a result? As far as I'm aware, they all walked away scot-free when they left the office.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th November 2020, 02:57 AM	#299
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,401	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm sure we can find more. But did any of them face charges and/or court personally as a result? As far as I'm aware, they all walked away scot-free when they left the office. Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call. What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs. He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks.

30th November 2020, 03:07 AM	#300
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,227	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call. What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs. He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks. As far as I'm aware, several states want to have a sit-down with him about some of these things. There will be "a spirited search for the truth", at which point Donny will blab and bluster and blunder his way into numerous serious charges being laid. There is the distinct possibility federal law officers will be invited to this party. After this, his attorney will cry himself to sleep.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th November 2020, 02:27 PM	#301
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,073	Originally Posted by EHocking You mean, of course, EcksEcksEcksEcks, or Fourecks. XXX is bad porn, whereas XXXX is bad lager. Whereas Dos Equis is merely mediocre.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

30th November 2020, 03:33 PM	#302
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	Originally Posted by smartcooky Yeah, but I'll bet you don't know why Castlemain is called XXXX ! of course I do, not being from god’s waiting room. it is an old stale joke. And spelled Castlemaine
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	__________________ Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite

30th November 2020, 03:35 PM	#303
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	Originally Posted by Susheel It's been quite a few years since I read it and my age and certain lifestyle choices haven't been conducive to a good memory. Yup...you are right. It is ISF after all. What’s a bit of pendantry between friends?
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,592	__________________ Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite

1st December 2020, 04:44 AM	#304
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,546	Trump should be criminally investigated and, if feasible, charged for the Obstruction found by Mueller. That should be a no-brainer for anyone who believes in the Separation of Power. And, of course, we need to investigate the failure of the Trump Administration to deal with the Coronavirus. That might lead to further charges. these have nothing to do with retaliation and everything to do with saving lives and democracy.
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

2nd December 2020, 06:05 PM	#305
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,997	One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

4th December 2020, 04:47 AM	#306
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,546	It was Kushner who was the go-between to buy Pardons from Trump: https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...0-12?r=DE&IR=T
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

4th December 2020, 07:10 AM	#307
Chanakya Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,080	Originally Posted by Trebuchet One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits. If he "manages" to actually get pardoned, then it'll be Biden he'll have managed. That would be squarely on Biden, isn't it?
Chanakya Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,080

4th December 2020, 09:26 AM	#308
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 32,124	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It was Kushner who was the go-between to buy Pardons from Trump: https://www.businessinsider.com/kush...0-12?r=DE&IR=T That's not what that article says. It identifies Abbe Lowell, an attorney for Kushner as being the go-between.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

17th December 2020, 08:30 AM	#309
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,682	Don't recall this being mentioned in any of the other threads, but it seems relevant here.... From: Global News (the major Canadian TV network, not the conspiracy site) Judge Arthur Engoron said the Trump Organization must turn over to the New York attorney general’s office all communications involving Ralph Mastromonaco, an engineer who worked on the Seven Springs estate in Westchester County, north of Manhattan....Attorney General Letitia James’ investigators are looking at how the Trump Organization and its agents assessed the value of Seven Springs This is a civil case, so by itself would not directly relate to criminal charges against Trump. But, I'm sure any evidence they turn up might be useful in any fraud charges.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

17th December 2020, 11:23 AM	#310
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,997	He'll be claiming Presidential privilege somehow or another! Or having Crazy Rudi do it for him.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

17th December 2020, 01:29 PM	#311
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,564	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Some of us were disappointed Obama didn't at least address GW lying us into a war and using torture. But compared to Trump I don't think GW's crimes would have been an easy call. What Biden has said he will enlist a committee to make the decisions if and what to charge Trump with. Before he was elected there appear to be more than a few crimes involving false claims on tax reports. And it's pretty clear Trump has been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs. He's lied on loan applications. I'm not sure if that against US law if the fraud was on foreign banks. As for GW Bush, I agree with you on the torture. As for getting into the Iran war, I was never certain whether it was a case of lying or a case of error and self delusion. I suspect that, to a large degree, he cherry-picked himmself into believing his own ********.

17th December 2020, 01:46 PM	#312
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by CORed As for GW Bush, I agree with you on the torture. As for getting into the Iran war, I was never certain whether it was a case of lying or a case of error and self delusion. I suspect that, to a large degree, he cherry-picked himmself into believing his own ********. Personally, I do not see any reason to give any benefit of doubt to war criminal.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

17th December 2020, 02:06 PM	#313
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by Trebuchet One way or another, he'll manage to be pardoned or immune to Federal charges. I'm hanging my hat on state charges and civil suits. No, I don't think so. I suppose he might pardon himself, but that is legally questionable. Biden is not going to pardon him and I doubt if he resigned Pence would either.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

17th December 2020, 02:20 PM	#314
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 5,381	Originally Posted by acbytesla No, I don't think so. I suppose he might pardon himself, but that is legally questionable. Biden is not going to pardon him and I doubt if he resigned Pence would either. I can't imagine Trump's ego would allow him to resign even briefly to get a pardon from Pence. He'll try to pardon himself for sure, and there's a solid chance it will fail. Failure and BS are Trump's superpowers in any case.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

18th December 2020, 01:56 AM	#315
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Just a thought: Trump saves face by pretending to need surgery so goes under anesthesia. Section 3 of the 25 Amendment is invoked and Pence temporarily becomes president. Pence pardons Trump. Section 3 says "such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President." This way Trump doesn't have to resign and doesn't have to take a change on the legality of pardoning himself. Would this be feasible?