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Old 23rd February 2022, 01:15 PM   #41
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Well talk is cheap. The ratio of people who loudly scream they are never buying/listening to/watching this or that again because how dare they say that versus the people who actually do ain't never been close to 1:1 so...

And so I don't get accused of playing for just one side there would be like 3 liberals left in America if all the people who were going to move to Canada if Bush won actually did so.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 01:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I wonder how much of their sales is to people who buy their products because of their reputation for sturdy construction that can survive the long term abuse of many manual jobs, and how many of them buy it because they LARP as blue collar workers. I could definitely see the latter souring on the brand.

ETA: Workwear as a style choice is an odd phenomena.
It’s funny, about half the LARPers are young folks. They are pretty popular on the gram.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 01:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well talk is cheap. The ratio of people who loudly scream they are never buying/listening to/watching this or that again because how dare they say that versus the people who actually do ain't never been close to 1:1 so...

And so I don't get accused of playing for just one side there would be like 3 liberals left in America if all the people who were going to move to Canada if Bush won actually did so.
I’m still paying Spotify.

So you have a good point.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 02:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I’m still paying Spotify.

So you have a good point.
Acceptance of Homosexuality in North America:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/w...0-05.png?w=640

Chick-Fil-A Revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-chick-fil-a/

So yeah, talk is cheap.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 02:14 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I’m still paying Spotify.

So you have a good point.
I have not bought a Nike product for 20 years. It has cost them many tens of dollars.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 02:41 PM   #46
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The company I work for does commercial\enterprise electrical work and automation. It's also EXTREMELY right-wing. So right-wing I would never disclose my political leanings to anyone in my office because I'd get fired pretty quick, but when this Carhartt made the announcement every single person here said they wouldn't buy their product again. That lasted until Amazon had the sale on Carhartt stuff and I bought my coat. I told the other guys and a few ordered smaller things. They weren't going to by the expensive stuff though! That's where they drew the line!

I think it boils down to Carhartt knowing it wouldn't blow them up too much, and if it did it would be short lived. They make the best clothes for construction and NoDak winters don't **** around. We've had a feels like of -15 to -30 for awhile now. It's not surprising how fast they put their standards aside in order to not freeze their baggetts off.
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Last edited by plague311; 23rd February 2022 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 02:45 PM   #47
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Honestly it's just picking your battles. A Senator being for/against something that means a lot to you is one thing, the CEO of the chicken place who has an independently owned franchise close to where you work being for/against something that means a lot to you is another.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 02:51 PM   #48
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I note Carhartt is a union shop, and considers that to be an asset, and I think that makes a difference. More working class people are union supporters, I suspect, than the right wingers would like to acknowledge, and unless that's changed in recent years, I suspect that's especially true of garment workers. In addition, of course, it distributes responsibility.

Not to belittle Carhartt for doing the right thing, but it seems they might have run into staffing shortages if they had not.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 03:01 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I note Carhartt is a union shop, and considers that to be an asset, and I think that makes a difference. More working class people are union supporters, I suspect, than the right wingers would like to acknowledge, and unless that's changed in recent years, I suspect that's especially true of garment workers. In addition, of course, it distributes responsibility.

Not to belittle Carhartt for doing the right thing, but it seems they might have run into staffing shortages if they had not.
I don’t think that belittles them at all, that was their stated goal: keep workers safe and healthy so they can keep working.

Remember back when there weren’t a lot of vaccines and the police and firefighters were arguing they should get the shot before fast food workers? Man those were the days.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 03:25 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I don’t think that belittles them at all, that was their stated goal: keep workers safe and healthy so they can keep working.

Remember back when there weren’t a lot of vaccines and the police and firefighters were arguing they should get the shot before fast food workers? Man those were the days.
I agree, and perhaps I put it poorly but I think some people are still tied to the "exploit the workers, loot and run" model of business, and would put it down as woke weakness, and others to the "management is always wrong" school and would assume sinister motives. Many people seem to find the idea of common ground suspicious.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 03:53 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Acceptance of Homosexuality in North America:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/w...0-05.png?w=640

Chick-Fil-A Revenue:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-chick-fil-a/

So yeah, talk is cheap.
Reminds me of a joke I saw on Twitter about how folks will line up for Chick-Fil-A on their way to a Pride parade.
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Old 23rd February 2022, 11:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well talk is cheap. The ratio of people who loudly scream they are never buying/listening to/watching this or that again because how dare they say that versus the people who actually do ain't never been close to 1:1 so...

And so I don't get accused of playing for just one side there would be like 3 liberals left in America if all the people who were going to move to Canada if Bush won actually did so.
Both my cousin and I gave up using Gillette blades after that ad. And within a year we were both back using them because they last longer and shave better. No matter how much I hate the ad.
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Old 24th February 2022, 04:36 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Ah John Ringo. A right-wing loon if ever that was one. As one person put it:
...he vomits the contents of his Id, iPod, and the Fox News highlights into a word processor and Baen prints it.
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Old 24th February 2022, 06:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Ah John Ringo. A right-wing loon if ever that was one. As one person put it:
...he vomits the contents of his Id, iPod, and the Fox News highlights into a word processor and Baen prints it.

I've read the entire Posleen War/Legacy of the Aldenata series. You can definitely see him becoming more extreme in his writing over the ten year period they were written. He's often cited as a writer who fell victim to the "Brain Eater", as the phenomenon is called in some circles.
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Old 24th February 2022, 07:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Both my cousin and I gave up using Gillette blades after that ad. And within a year we were both back using them because they last longer and shave better. No matter how much I hate the ad.
Doesn't Schick, the largest competitor, make essentially identical products? I know a lot of generics are pretty terrible quality, but it's hard to imagine that Gillette is the only vendor of good quality disposable razors.
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Doesn't Schick, the largest competitor, make essentially identical products? I know a lot of generics are pretty terrible quality, but it's hard to imagine that Gillette is the only vendor of good quality disposable razors.
I've tried most disposables, and I agree. Gillette products are noticeably better. Even when I was brand-predisposed to Bic (they make surfboards that are cheap, tough, and surprisingly fun to ride).
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:29 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I've read the entire Posleen War/Legacy of the Aldenata series. You can definitely see him becoming more extreme in his writing over the ten year period they were written. He's often cited as a writer who fell victim to the "Brain Eater", as the phenomenon is called in some circles.
True. And a lack of decent editing.
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I've tried most disposables, and I agree. Gillette products are noticeably better. Even when I was brand-predisposed to Bic (they make surfboards that are cheap, tough, and surprisingly fun to ride).
Damn. Bow down to your SJW overlords then
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:48 AM   #59
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Again people go outside (as I put it) or touch grass (as SuburbanTurkey puts it) understand you have to pick your battles.

Okay so real world example. I never give a cent to the Salvation Army. I never give a cent to the Salvation Army because of their anti-homosexual policies and practices. BUT it's also because if want to give money to the poor I have... like countless other functionally equal options. The Salvation Army does not have a monopoly on broad generic assistance to the poor. I've got options. Goodwill exists.
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Old 24th February 2022, 01:13 PM   #60
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The thing about real boycotts, like the ones of the Civil Rights Era, is that they aren't just a bunch of folks deciding "we don't like their company and won't buy their stuff". They are one part of sustained campaigns and happen after other options were tried out. Also, the people boycotting will be very visible about just what hardships they will endure to not use said product or service.

People generally slide back into their old habits pretty easily. Even when a sponsor pulls ads from one FOX News show, like Little Swanson's White Power Hour, they are still buying ad space on the preceding and following shows. They do this because they know the audience watching one show is most likely watching FOX News all day and night. That's why things like Must See TV and TGIF were so important to their respective networks.
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Old 24th February 2022, 03:36 PM   #61
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In terms of car ads in Australia, there was definitely a sudden point when things changed.

IIRC, there was a prices and income survey that revealed that same sex couples tended to have high household income and a lot of disposable cash.

Suddenly ads for SUVs would feature two very clean-cut guys with bicycles, or dogs...

I'm not sure if it was one ad company, or advertisers copying each other, but I remember wondering at the time if there was a new rule that said that gay guys had to buy Dalmations...



Currently there is a commercial for something that mentions 'the van life' and shows two girls sharing a bed in the back of a camper...

I think there was a bit of twit-storm when it first started happening, but didn't get very far...
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Old 24th February 2022, 06:55 PM   #62
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Here in the US, if you were to go by the models used in ads, half the car owners in the world would be gay, the bankers and business people almost all slim and comely young African American women, and those needing medication for serious illness as well as erectile dysfunction, silver haired senior sports men and women who love to run and usually have nice dogs too. Sure you have a disease that knocks you off in a month and leaves you gasping for breath on the way to the toilet, and the pill can cause drowsiness, liver failure, spasms, diarrhea and death, but you'll be right out there on the beach tossing sticks to your well groomed goldie. Ask your doctor about plagomagoblagosil today. The buyers of pickup trucks are rugged outdoorsmen or serious self-employed tradesmen. Sometimes they're ranchers. None are fat.

If you look at the ads, American business aren't just woke, they're buzzed.
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Old 11th May 2022, 05:27 PM   #63
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Someone mentioned that disney may need to be put on watch. They’ll be going broke any day now.
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Old 13th May 2022, 01:54 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Someone mentioned that disney may need to be put on watch. They’ll be going broke any day now.
I think Disney has been hurt by Covid more than some other companies. Disneyland(s) had to close. I think they are open again, but I doubt that customers have returned to pre-pandemic levels. Movies? Another Covid casualty. On the other hand they do have a new streaming service, but they have lots of competitors too in that market.

So it's impossible to tell whether their stock price is down because they got too "woke" or because of the obvious challenges to their business model due to recent circumstances.

Well, I guess Disney shares might be a buy these days (buy low, sell high):

https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/...make-your-jaw/

Quote:
There was some uneasiness even before Disney either dabbled or was dragged into Florida politics, but a "woke" Disney is apparently not a "broke" Disney. The media-giant's domestic resorts are hitting it out of the theme park these days.

Wednesday afternoon's fiscal second quarter saw strong performance for the segment, including one of the juiciest revelations during the subsequent earnings call. Per-capita spending at Disney's domestic theme parks is up more than 40% from where it was for the same pre-pandemic quarter in 2019.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:24 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I think Disney has been hurt by Covid more than some other companies. Disneyland(s) had to close. I think they are open again, but I doubt that customers have returned to pre-pandemic levels. Movies? Another Covid casualty. On the other hand they do have a new streaming service, but they have lots of competitors too in that market.

So it's impossible to tell whether their stock price is down because they got too "woke" or because of the obvious challenges to their business model due to recent circumstances.

Well, I guess Disney shares might be a buy these days (buy low, sell high):

https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/...make-your-jaw/
The huge sucess of Dr Strange MOM last weekend shows how sucessful the campaign against Disney has been.
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Old 19th May 2022, 06:15 AM   #66
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If anyone finds this topic of interest, they might like "Abercrombie and Fitch: White Hot" on Netflix. Brand stays unwoke; goes broke, gets woke, goes somewhat less broke, etc.
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Old 20th May 2022, 09:40 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If anyone finds this topic of interest, they might like "Abercrombie and Fitch: White Hot" on Netflix. Brand stays unwoke; goes broke, gets woke, goes somewhat less broke, etc.
Interesting, thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 25th May 2022, 10:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If anyone finds this topic of interest, they might like "Abercrombie and Fitch: White Hot" on Netflix. Brand stays unwoke; goes broke, gets woke, goes somewhat less broke, etc.

Just watched it. Good documentary, thanks.
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Old 26th February 2023, 09:33 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Someone mentioned that disney may need to be put on watch. They’ll be going broke any day now.
I feel like this is relevant again.
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Old 26th February 2023, 09:36 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
You need to define "woke" first. It seems to be making statements or taking positions on social issues someone disagrees with.

As for "corporate wokeness"...meh. It's just another way for them to pander to certain crowds and launder their own reputations (and get a nice tax write-off). Putting rainbow flags or writing BLM on your merchandise is the same as stamping an American flag on it or painting it pink.
Yeah, this. It's all about the money, man.
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Old 27th February 2023, 02:30 AM   #71
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This is awfully reminiscent of Jim Crow Laws, which also were an awfully expensive way to discriminate.
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Old 1st March 2023, 12:43 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Both my cousin and I gave up using Gillette blades after that ad. ...
I am shocked...shocked I tell you...
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Old 2nd March 2023, 03:38 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yeah, this. It's all about the money, man.
Totally. Corporate execs, much like politicians, can't ever possibly hold actual sociopolitical opinions.
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Old 4th March 2023, 08:09 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Someone mentioned that disney may need to be put on watch. They’ll be going broke any day now.
Disney needs to get back into the story telling business. No one watches Marvel or Star Wars movies or streaming shows to be beat over the head. They need to produce a bunch more "Andors" which is both awesome story-telling and nails how to do diversity just right. Most of their movies and shows, alienate their core fans (known as paying customers) and come off an patronizing to the people they're trying to appeal to. Not a great plan when your business models relies on getting lots of people to pay for your streaming service. Their problem isn't going "woke"; it's that the product they produce sucks and irritates everyone.
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Old 13th March 2023, 11:59 PM   #75
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The New York Post works backwards. You may have heard in the news that a US bank called Silicon Valley Bank just went broke. Now all you have to do is find the evidence that they went "woke" sometime before that. Easy target:
While Silicon Valley Bank collapsed, top executive pushed ‘woke’ programs

Quote:
On Saturday, Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus insinuated that “woke” policies like the ones launched by Ersapah could have led to SVB’s dramatic failure.

“I feel bad for all of these people that lost all their money in this woke bank. You know, it was more distressing to hear that the bank officials sold off their stock before this happened. It’s depressing to me,” he told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto.

“Who knows whether the Justice Department would go after them? They’re a woke company, so I guess not. And they’ll probably get away with it.”

The businessman blamed the Biden administration for pushing companies and banks to consider global warming over shareholder returns, resulting in catastrophic economic pitfalls.

Meanwhile, Tucker Carlson blames diversity and Obama.
Quote:
"The Obama administration imposed diversity, equity, and inclusion standards on the entire financial sector. And that's one of the main reasons our big banks are now increasingly incompetent."
As we all know, banks never went broke in the good old days when they were entirely run by white men.

Even a columnist for the Wall Street Journal wondered aloud whether the presence of minorities on the board of directors might be part of the problem:
Quote:
In an op-ed titled “Who Killed Silicon Valley Bank?” columnist Andy Kessler writes: “Was there regulatory failure? Perhaps. SVB was regulated like a bank but looked more like a money-market fund. Then there’s this: In its proxy statement, SVB notes that besides 91% of their board being independent and 45% women, they also have ‘1 Black,‘ “1 LGBTQ+,‘ and ‘2 Veterans.’ I’m not saying 12 white men would have avoided this mess, but the company may have been distracted by diversity demands.”
I’m not saying, I'm just saying. Yep.
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Old 14th March 2023, 01:57 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The New York Post works backwards. You may have heard in the news that a US bank called Silicon Valley Bank just went broke. Now all you have to do is find the evidence that they went "woke" sometime before that. Easy target:
While Silicon Valley Bank collapsed, top executive pushed ‘woke’ programs




Meanwhile, Tucker Carlson blames diversity and Obama.

As we all know, banks never went broke in the good old days when they were entirely run by white men.

Even a columnist for the Wall Street Journal wondered aloud whether the presence of minorities on the board of directors might be part of the problem:

I’m not saying, I'm just saying. Yep.
They sound pretty middle-of-the-road woke for 2023. And the reason why they went bust is because they chased after fairly small profits. Like every other bank they were offering negligible interest to their depositors, which should mean they were pretty safe. But most of the other banks maintained sizeable cash reserves and their short-term lending operations during the low-interest rate era, while SVB, with huge net deposits in the last few years was unable to lend out the money traditionally and decided to invest in bonds and mortgage-backed securities. Those are actually quite safe investments, and SVB would have been fine if either one of two things happened:

1. Their depositors in the tech industry had continued to make large net deposits in the bank as they had during the last few years.
2. Interest rates had remained stable.

Unfortunately neither of those things happened. Interest rates increased rapidly, and as a result bonds had their worst year in 2023 in memory. SVB was forced to sell their bonds at a loss in order to meet the withdrawal demands of their tech clients who were experiencing a sudden and sharp recession in the industry. When news of the loss hit, large, uninsured depositors became nervous and the run was on.
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Last edited by Brainster; 14th March 2023 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 14th March 2023, 02:06 AM   #77
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Silicon Valley Bank chief pressed Congress to weaken risk regulations
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Old 14th March 2023, 04:40 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Wasn’t one of the arguments that they deployed to argue for weaker regulations that they were too small to represent a systemic risk to the financial system and ultimately the economy?

And that’s the polar opposite to what people like Bill Ackman were arguing on Twitter about how the Fed must step in immediately to guarantee all bank deposits in excess of the federal deposit insurance limit.
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Old 14th March 2023, 05:52 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
They sound pretty middle-of-the-road woke for 2023. And the reason why they went bust is because they chased after fairly small profits.
No. The failure of SVB was down to seveal factors, mainly it's over-reliance on USGov Treasury Securities ('T-Bills') whose market value declined precipitously as interest rates increased. This was worsened by endemic short-selling.
In fact SVB was lending in the hope of long term profits.
The proximate cause (as usual in USian bank collapses) was the beginning of rumours of imminent failure.
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Old 14th March 2023, 05:54 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Wasn’t one of the arguments that they deployed to argue for weaker regulations that they were too small to represent a systemic risk to the financial system and ultimately the economy?

And that’s the polar opposite to what people like Bill Ackman were arguing on Twitter about how the Fed must step in immediately to guarantee all bank deposits in excess of the federal deposit insurance limit.
SVB was the sixteenth largest US bank.
The FDIC extension was proposes as ~90% of SVP deposits were not covered, being SME tech companies.
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