More Attempts by Conservatives to Control a Woman's Body

[Tero]

Quote:

But we would like to offer some clarification here. Because despite the barrage of predictions that this case could ban mifepristone and take it off the market, there are several basic legal principles suggesting that Judge Kacsmaryk’s power is limited and that a ruling for the plaintiffs will not necessarily change much at all with medication abortion.

Judge Kacsmaryk cannot force the FDA to adopt another process to do the same—doing so would violate federal law. At best, he should only be able to order the agency to start the congressionally mandated process, which involves public hearings and new agency deliberations. This could take months or years, with no guarantee of the result.

....settled law, decided in a unanimous 1985 Supreme Court decision, that the agency has broad enforcement discretion, meaning the agency, not courts, gets to decide if and when to enforce the statute. The FDA has historically used a risk-based approach to prioritize its enforcement actions, focusing on the products with demonstrated safety concerns. Occasionally, the FDA will issue a guidance document giving some drug manufacturers safe harbor to violate the relevant statute in certain contexts, such as when the safety risk is low, which it has done with products as wide-ranging as infant formula and fecal transplants. It should decide to take a similar approach with mifepristone if the drug’s approval is removed, given the drug’s exemplary safety profile.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...epristone.html

The type of situation the judge is dealing with would be more appropriate for cases against a drug company. Many drugs were taken off market only after a clear risk became apparent after the drug was launched. The 1 in 10 000 deaths and the cases where long term use caused harm for the patients. Those a judge could alert the FDA on if they had not noticed the problem.

[Tero]

An example where the medical community pushed for removal:
Valdecoxib (Bextra)

Quote:

Time on the market: 2001-2005

Valdecoxib is an NSAID that the FDA later determined worked no better than other NSAID pain medications on the market. The drug was recalled for adverse heart effects including death, heart attack, and stroke, as well as increased risk for serious skin reactions, such as epidermal necrolysis, erythema multiforme, and Stevens-Johnson syndrome. To boot, the drug had the potential to cause gastrointestinal bleeding. Yikes!

https://www.mdlinx.com/article/10-da...e-fda/lfc-4008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdecoxib

Quote:

On September 2, 2009, the United States Department of Justice fined Pfizer $2.3 billion after one of its subsidiaries, Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, pleaded guilty to marketing four drugs including Bextra "with the intent to defraud or mislead."[9] Pharmacia & Upjohn admitted to criminal conduct in the promotion of Bextra, and agreed to pay the largest criminal fine ever imposed in the United States for any matter, $1.195 billion.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Nosi

Quote:

I never get how women can vote for parties with policies like these.

Americans are NOT voting for these . Elections in the USA are FUBAR. There is no voting these wingnuts in, because the American vote doesn't matter.

But many Americans ARE voting for them.

I agree that there are major problems with the way Elections are run in the United States. (The electoral college giving more power to sparsely populated states, voter suppression, gerrymandering.) But, the republican party still needs SOME voter support in order to get elected. (All the various "cheats" will only get them so far.)

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

But many Americans ARE voting for them.

I agree that there are major problems with the way Elections are run in the United States. (The electoral college giving more power to sparsely populated states, voter suppression, gerrymandering.) But, the republican party still needs SOME voter support in order to get elected. (All the various "cheats" will only get them so far.)

Sadly, you are 100% correct. If being stupid were a disqualifier for voting, a large percentage of the 18+ voter population would be unable to vote.

[Stacyhs]

TX anti-abortion judge Kacsmaryk quietly schedules hearing on abortion pill for Wednesday, tells lawyers not to publicize it.

Quote:

The federal judge in a closely watched lawsuit that seeks to overturn federal approval of a widely-used abortion pill has scheduled the first hearing in the case for this week, but he planned to delay making the public aware of it, according to people familiar with the case.

Judge Matthew J. Kacsmaryk, of the Northern District in Texas, told lawyers in the case on Friday that he was scheduling the hearing for Wednesday morning. However, he asked them not to disclose that information and said he would not enter it into the public court record until late Tuesday evening.

One person familiar with the case, which is being heard in federal court in Amarillo, Texas, said such steps were “very irregular,” especially for a case of intense public interest.

Judge Kacsmaryk, a Trump appointee who has written critically about Roe v. Wade and previously worked for a Christian conservative legal organization, told lawyers in a conference call Friday that he did not want the March 15 hearing to be “disrupted,” and that he wanted all parties involved to share their points in an orderly fashion, according to people familiar with the discussion.

Quote:

The lawsuit, filed in November against the Food and Drug Administration by a coalition of anti-abortion groups and doctors, seeks to end more than 20 years of legal use of medications for abortion. The plaintiffs, led by the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, an organization that lists five anti-abortion groups as its members, have asked the judge to issue a preliminary injunction ordering the F.D.A. to withdraw its longstanding approval of mifepristone, the first pill in the two-drug medication abortion regimen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/12/h...s-lawsuit.html

[Stacyhs]

I will be very surprised if this Trump appointed, conservative, anti-choice judge does not rule to ban this drug. We'll see if he's one of these "activist" judges that the Republicans keep complaining about.

[Tero]

But will the higher court say a judge has any authority over the FDA? You would need to rule the FDA unconstitutional.

The SC has made decisions on the safety side, always going WITH the FDA.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...41100420080114

That was 2008. Using precedent the SC would need to go with the safety angle. Here is the problem. The abortion pill is less harmful than going through with a pregnancy. The life of the mother is at risk. They would need to do some funny math, saying that the risk for the abortion pill is some number, then the risk at childbirth is a different number. But since the child can survive the birth even when the mother dies, you insert the number 2 in the birth statistics.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Tero

But will the higher court say a judge has any authority over the FDA? You would need to rule the FDA unconstitutional.

The SC has made decisions on the safety side, always going WITH the FDA.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-d...41100420080114

That was 2008. Using precedent the SC would need to go with the safety angle. Here is the problem. The abortion pill is less harmful than going through with a pregnancy. The life of the mother is at risk. They would need to do some funny math, saying that the risk for the abortion pill is some number, then the risk at childbirth is a different number. But since the child can survive the birth even when the mother dies, you insert the number 2 in the birth statistics.

That is hopelessly naive.

The current Supreme Court was purposely and intentionally stacked with the single reason of getting rid of abortion.

A precedent from 2008 is the price of tea in China.

[Tero]

There are a small number of legal principles still in effect. Roberts insists on some of them.

"Chief Justice John Roberts agreed with the judgment upholding the Mississippi law but did not join the majority in the opinion to overturn Roe and Casey."

The case here is a technicality. The courts could easily go for a case that banned abortion pills in states that ban abortion, but not the whole country. But that is not the Texas case. The case is too big a claim by the group claiming it is unsafe. So they kind of mixed up two issues in this case. The supreme court is likely to retry it with the same groups, FDA and the antiabortionists. They are unlikely to get the drug safety part.

[JoeMorgue]

Which is exactly why we got told Roe Vs Wade was settled and the precedent right up until the point where it wasn't.

[Suddenly]

Originally Posted by Tero

There are a small number of legal principles still in effect. Roberts insists on some of them.

"Chief Justice John Roberts agreed with the judgment upholding the Mississippi law but did not join the majority in the opinion to overturn Roe and Casey."

The case here is a technicality. The courts could easily go for a case that banned abortion pills in states that ban abortion, but not the whole country. But that is not the Texas case. The case is too big a claim by the group claiming it is unsafe. So they kind of mixed up two issues in this case. The supreme court is likely to retry it with the same groups, FDA and the antiabortionists. They are unlikely to get the drug safety part.

Roberts will have only slightly more influence on this than you do.

[Tero]

Judge halting one pill leaves options.

Quote:

...are hoping to convince Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk to order the FDA to withdraw its 22-year approval of mifepristone, the first drug taken in the two-drug abortion pill regimen.

Melissa Grant is the chief operations officer at Carafem, an organization that offers reproductive health care, including abortion care, online and in-person. “Carafem has provided thousands of doses of misoprostol-only as an option to our clients since the year 2020,” she tells Rolling Stone. “We did so because we recognized that the Trump administration was poised to remove the ability to mail mifepristone in 2021.”

What Carafem has found in the data it has collected over that period is that misoprostol-only abortions are extremely effective — 95 percent, compared to 99 percent effectiveness when taken together with mifepristone. Doses can be administered orally, sublingually (i.e. absorbed under the tongue) or vaginally, largely as a matter of personal preference, Grant says.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...mp-1234687200/

[Nosi]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Interesting: mifepristone is also used to treat Cushing's Disease under the name Korlym. This is an interesting article on how a pharmaceutical company profited off manufacturing it as Korlym and charged $550 per 300 mg pill and the same drug sold as mifepristone cost $80 per 200 mg pill.

If the judge rules for the wing-nuts, people with Cushing's won't be able to get it, either.

Cushing's sufferers are considered disposable by the Q.

[Nosi]

Originally Posted by shemp

And there are millions of women (and men too) who, for a number of stupid reasons, just plain don't vote.

I think the situation is darker than stupidity and apathy. I don't think the American vote means anything anymore because the Republicans have disenfranchised too many and gerrymandered America to FUBAR. While we have part of Congress and the Presidency, the Republicans focused on local politics, and in many places have utter control from there, and now they are going to turn women into creatures without rights. They started with abortion, then birth control, and only God knows what's next. LGBTQ+ will be rounded up into camps eventually, and rights will be stripped from all males not white and anyone born with a uterus.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Nosi

Cushing's sufferers are considered disposable by the Q.

That's also something that get's lost in the discourse.

There aren't a lot of drugs that have only one and preciously one use. Most "birth control" medications are also used treat other conditions.

[Nosi]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

But many Americans ARE voting for them.

I agree that there are major problems with the way Elections are run in the United States. (The electoral college giving more power to sparsely populated states, voter suppression, gerrymandering.) But, the republican party still needs SOME voter support in order to get elected. (All the various "cheats" will only get them so far.)

It isn't just Americans cheating. Foreign governments are involved as well, namely a certain nation whose name begins with "R".

[Tero]

Wyoming bans abortion pill.

[sackett]

Originally Posted by Tero

Wyoming bans abortion pill.

since I'm the acknowledged forum authority on the Equality State.

Nobody should be surprised. It's in the nature of right politics and politicians to keep stretching and pushing until they overstep. Consequences are of secondary importance; the perpetual struggle is all that matters. Do I sound like Mussolini? No accident.

No Republicans anywhere are as primitive as those in Wyoming.

I hope people will start mailing packages glaringly marked BIRTH CONTROL ABORTION PILLS! to cooperating recipients in Wyoming. Tampering with the US mail is of course a federal crime, and, knowing my compatriots, I would except some -- perhaps many -- of them to try it on.

What'll be in the packages? Xeroxed pix of Musso n Hiddler n Franco, stuff like that. And a return postcard on which the recipient must write a prearranged code. To insure safe delivery, you see.

I'm very open to further suggestions. Bet you are too.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Tero

Wyoming bans abortion pill.

Well he prayed so it is all fine.

Quote:

Gov. Mark Gordon of Wyoming, a Republican, signed that state’s abortion pill ban on the same day that he said he would allow another more sweeping measure banning abortion to become law without his signature. That law, which takes effect on Sunday, would ban abortion under almost all circumstances, making it a felony to provide an abortion.

“I have acted without bias and after extensive prayer, to allow these bills to become law,” Mr. Gordon wrote in a letter to Wyoming’s secretary of state released on Friday evening.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Darat

Well he prayed so it is all fine.

Isn't it amazing how God always seems to OK what someone wants to do?

[bruto]

Originally Posted by sackett

since I'm the acknowledged forum authority on the Equality State.

Nobody should be surprised. It's in the nature of right politics and politicians to keep stretching and pushing until they overstep. Consequences are of secondary importance; the perpetual struggle is all that matters. Do I sound like Mussolini? No accident.

No Republicans anywhere are as primitive as those in Wyoming.

I hope people will start mailing packages glaringly marked BIRTH CONTROL ABORTION PILLS! to cooperating recipients in Wyoming. Tampering with the US mail is of course a federal crime, and, knowing my compatriots, I would except some -- perhaps many -- of them to try it on.

What'll be in the packages? Xeroxed pix of Musso n Hiddler n Franco, stuff like that. And a return postcard on which the recipient must write a prearranged code. To insure safe delivery, you see.

I'm very open to further suggestions. Bet you are too.

I like that idea. I don't know any good recpients in Wyoming, alas, but if I did, I'd be wrapping up packages right now.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally Posted by Darat

Well he prayed so it is all fine.

It's more like they prey on women's rights.

[sackett]

Now it appears that out in Wyoming Darth Morgen is going to let a complete state abortion ban become law w/out his signature. Dunno how that works, if he's even got it right, but again it's not surprising.

Luckily, this fandango involves very few people. Further, near-frontier conditions still prevail in Wyo outside the few (sorta) large towns, and doctors who chose to show Darth and his laws the middle digit could get away with it.

For a while. Then arrests would happen, and then serious testing of the statutes in court. Good.

Because the true shabbiness of these latter-day blackshirts needs to be exposed to the sun.

[Lurch]

I've seen it written somewhere, or heard it, that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere.

If that's more than a throw-away platitude, then these localized Fascistic, theocratic expressions of oppression should cause a deep, burning, head-hanging shame in the heart of every American.

Once ideas have got beyond the wishing phase and are becoming law, how soon the point of no return?

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Lurch

I've seen it written somewhere, or heard it, that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere.

If that's more than a throw-away platitude, then these localized Fascistic, theocratic expressions of oppression should cause a deep, burning, head-hanging shame in the heart of every American.

Once ideas have got beyond the wishing phase and are becoming law, how soon the point of no return?

The problem is how many of those want to pass that point. They don't want actual justice and freedom. They want a flag to wave.

[Tero]

I was looking for a map that has recent data and no paywall. This map is fairly accurate.
https://reproductiverights.org/maps/...laws-by-state/
Florida has a 15 week ban. Nebraska 6 week band will likely not go through, but some 15-20 weeks will probably be voted on before the session is over.

[catsmate]

Just when you thought DeSantis and his fellow fascists couldn't get any worse, they do.....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...re-sixth-grade

[bruto]

On the above, I read somewhere an interview in which the question was whether this means if a person starts at an early age this would bar the girl or any staff from acknowledging it at all, providing even so much assistance as to explain what is happening, and the answer was a simple "yes." What idiocy.

But maybe they can find a Gilead-safe workaround. Just call it unclean and send the kid home for a few days.

[thaiboxerken]

Education is the enemy of facists. This explains the Republican attack on education.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Just when you thought DeSantis and his fellow fascists couldn't get any worse, they do.....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...re-sixth-grade

What a stupid idea.

Quote:

Girls typically have their first periods between the ages of 10 and 15, but some do so as young as nine.

“Imagine a little girl in fourth grade, going to the bathroom and finding blood in her panties and thinking that she is dying,” state representative Ashley Gantt, a Democrat, said in a video posted on Instagram.

“She doesn’t actually know what’s going on. And her teacher does not even have the ability to tell her that this is a part of life.”

That's what happened to my sister who was 10 when she got her first period. My mom was planning on having 'the talk' with her in about a year at age 11. My sister was scared out of her mind and was too afraid to tell my mom. Mom only found out when our dog found the evidence under my sister's bed.

I just shake my head at these GOP idiots and keep asking myself, "What the hell is wrong with them?"

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

What a stupid idea.



That's what happened to my sister who was 10 when she got her first period. My mom was planning on having 'the talk' with her in about a year at age 11. My sister was scared out of her mind and was too afraid to tell my mom. Mom only found out when our dog found the evidence under my sister's bed.

I just shake my head at these GOP idiots and keep asking myself, "What the hell is wrong with them?"

The occasional dead girl is a small price for Republicans to pay to avoid thinking about the ick.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by catsmate

The occasional dead girl is a small price for Republicans to pay to avoid thinking about the ick.

I just sort of hope that at least some one of those bozos has a daughter or granddaughter or the like who gets disciplined for violating their stupid rules. Maybe eventually the chorus of "who knew" will become audible.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by bruto

On the above, I read somewhere an interview in which the question was whether this means if a person starts at an early age this would bar the girl or any staff from acknowledging it at all, providing even so much assistance as to explain what is happening, and the answer was a simple "yes." What idiocy.

But maybe they can find a Gilead-safe workaround. Just call it unclean and send the kid home for a few days.

Home?

Clearly the lesser beings should be in a separate building while they are being unclean, less they sap the strength of men with their vile behaviour, which is their rightful punishment for causing the fall of man.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by catsmate

The occasional dead girl is a small price for Republicans to pay to avoid thinking about the ick.

Call an exorcist, catsmate! I fear Warp12 has possessed you!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Home?

Clearly the lesser beings should be in a separate building while they are being unclean, less they sap the strength of men with their vile behaviour, which is their rightful punishment for causing the fall of man.

Or, at the very least, send them to the Mikveh to cleanse themselves lest they defile others with their uncleanliness!

Leviticus 15,19-30:

“ When a woman has a discharge of blood, and blood flows from her body, the uncleanness of her monthly periods shall last for seven days.”

“Anyone who touches her will be unclean until evening.”

“ Any bed she lies on in this state will be unclean; any seat she sits on will be unclean. Anyone who touches her bed must wash his clothing and wash himself and will be unclean until evening. If there is anything on the bed or on the chair on which she sat, anyone who touches it will be unclean until evening.”

“ If a man sleeps with her, he will be affected by the uncleanness of her monthly periods. He shall be unclean for seven days. Any bed he lies on will be unclean.”

“If a woman has a flow of blood for several days outside her period or if the period is prolonged, during the time the flow lasts she shall be in the same state of uncleanness as during her monthly periods.”

“When she is cured of her flow, she will let seven days pass then she will be clean. On the eighth day she is to take two turtle doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting. With one of them the priest is to offer a sacrifice for sin and with the other a holocaust. This is the way in which the priest will perform the rite of atonement over her before Yahweh for the flow rhat caused her uncleanness.”

“The children of Israel are to be warned lest they defile the tabernacle that is set among them.”

Even childbirth made a woman 'unclean'. Leviticus 12,1-8:

"Every month, there were seven or more days during which she was ritually unclean.
She needed purification at childbirth; after the birth of a son a mother was unclean for 40 days, of a daughter for 80 days."

Much of this attitude was carried over into the early Christian Churches and was a main factor in the forbidding of women priests. Religion, especially Abrahamic religions, has a long history of misogyny.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Home?

Clearly the lesser beings should be in a separate building while they are being unclean, less they sap the strength of men with their vile behaviour, which is their rightful punishment for causing the fall of man.

Every school should have a red tent, but in keeping with the new laws it will have to be colored gray.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by bruto

Every school should have a red tent, but in keeping with the new laws it will have to be colored gray.

Excellent book.

[The Great Zaganza]

Israel is abdicating the issue of women's rights to their religious courts.

US conservatives want to turn the country into a religious State.
More efficient that way I guess.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Israel is abdicating the issue of women's rights to their religious courts.

US conservatives want to turn the country into a religious State.
More efficient that way I guess.

Religion has such a great history and tradition of supporting women's right.

[Tero]

Wyoming anti-Obamacare law
https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/3/...-court-johnson