Growing movement in Idaho to assimilate half of Oregon

JoeMorgue · 16th March 2023, 06:33 AM

Partisan rancor in Oregon spills over into Idaho effort to absorb its rural neighbors

Quote:

“We don’t think of ourselves as a secessionist movement. We see ourselves as a self-determination movement,” McCaw said of the Greater Idaho Movement, which seeks to move the Idaho state line west to include more than half of Oregon.

What would have previously been brushed off as a fringe proposition to add the predominantly Republican region of eastern Oregon into conservative Idaho has lunged forward in the Idaho state legislature. There have been plenty of other attempts across the country to break off pieces of states to try to join more politically analogous ones, but this one has advanced the furthest. The measure passed the state House last month and advanced to the state Senate, where it sits in committee, with the session expected to wrap by the end of March.

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/polit...des/index.html

TragicMonkey · 16th March 2023, 06:49 AM

Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon.

catsmate · 16th March 2023, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon.

You've been warned before about this "rational thought" stuff.

The Don · 16th March 2023, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon.

I wouldn't be shocked to find that they expect to bring one, or both, senators with them. If the whole purpose of two senators per state regardless of population was to give underpopulated rural states a fair shout against the urban states, the logical next step would be to allow the rural parts of states sole access to those senators.

Donal · 16th March 2023, 07:18 AM

That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones.

lobosrul5 · 16th March 2023, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones.

Yes, and I'm searching for the word to call it... its sort of like a backronym. Its given as a reason for the Senate to exist, when that reason was not valid when it was created. Virginia was easily the highest population state in 1790 but contained none of the 10 largest cities. Of course the 10th largest city back then was only 5,600 people.

sackett · 16th March 2023, 07:46 AM

What's in it for Oregon?

Ziggurat · 16th March 2023, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon.

If local issues are more important to them than federal issues, that's not going to matter very much.

lobosrul5 · 16th March 2023, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

If local issues are more important to them than federal issues, that's not going to matter very much.

There'd be no shift in the Senate either way anyways. Idaho would still send two GOP Senators, and Oregon two Dems.

varwoche · 16th March 2023, 08:07 AM

Christian identity / white nationalism / Trump cult are at the core of this. I'll bet the American Redoubt people are all about it.

crescent · 16th March 2023, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

There'd be no shift in the Senate either way anyways. Idaho would still send two GOP Senators, and Oregon two Dems.

It might mess a bit with the House districting. All of eastern Oregon is covered by one house district (#2) which also extends down southwest into the Cascades around Medford.

That District would probably get split, both states would need to redistrict to reflect the change.

I would guess that it would result in no net change in the U.S. House of Reps, although it seems possible that the area being switched is too under-populated for Idaho to pick up a new seat. Instead it might just shave off the most conservative part of the district and flip it from a solidly conservative seat into a competitive one.

There's a similar movement in Colorado to shift a few counties in the state's northeast (Weld, Morgan, Logan and few others) over to Wyoming.

Hans · 16th March 2023, 08:53 AM

Fortunately my county voted against it

Trebuchet · 16th March 2023, 08:56 AM

It's kind of pointless discussing the practical consequences since there is absolutely no possibility of it happening.
And it's not remotely new, such talk has been going on for decades. Here's a similar proposal to combine northern Idaho with western Washington.

Hans · 16th March 2023, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

It's kind of pointless discussing the practical consequences since there is absolutely no possibility of it happening.
And it's not remotely new, such talk has been going on for decades. Here's a similar proposal to combine northern Idaho with western Washington.

Yeah the state of Jefferson was and is still being discussed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffer..._Pacific_state)

Stacyhs · 16th March 2023, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Christian identity / white nationalism / Trump cult are at the core of this. I'll bet the American Redoubt people are all about it.

Agreed.

lobosrul5 · 16th March 2023, 12:08 PM

Sure, do it + Eastern WA. But as a condition Idaho, Montana and Wyoming must become one big crazy state. We can call it Northern Rocky Freeman on the Land Don't Tread On Me, These Colors Don't Runistan. And they'd still get around 10x the Senate representation that Californians do on a per capita basis.

Steve · 16th March 2023, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

What's in it for Oregon?

Given the type of folks they would be getting rid of it would be a big win.

The_Animus · 16th March 2023, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones.

And the House was the opposite where heavily populated ones would get more representation. Unfortunately over time the population amount for a seat was raised and then the total number of representatives was capped which has also benefitted the less populated ones. Heavily populated states just get screwed at both ends.

W.D.Clinger · 16th March 2023, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

What's in it for Oregon?

That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example:

I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley.
— US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District)

Mike! · 16th March 2023, 01:41 PM

Borg Oregon?

Stacyhs · 16th March 2023, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example:

I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley.
— US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District)

From your link:

Quote:

"The Oregon/Idaho line was established 163 years ago and is now outdated,” the Greater Idaho group says on its webpage. “It makes no sense in its current location because it doesn’t match the location of the cultural divide in Oregon.”

This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ?
I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you.

Mike! · 16th March 2023, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

From your link:

This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ?
I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you.

.I'm pretty sure that was the original point the behind whole states' rights issue at the creation of the nation, If you didn't like the laws of the state you were in, you were perfectly welcome to pack up and move to another state that more closely aligned with your views.

The_Animus · 16th March 2023, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

From your link:

This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ?
I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you.

And what happens if 10, or 20 years from now the cultural divide changes? Do we just redraw states every couple decades?

sackett · 16th March 2023, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

And what happens if 10, or 20 years from now the cultural divide changes? Do we just redraw states every couple decades?

Nah. Rapture's coming way before that.

Shadowdweller · 16th March 2023, 03:56 PM

The neurodegenerate vermin are more than welcome to leave our state. They won't be taking any land with them.

W.D.Clinger · 16th March 2023, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example:

I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley.
— US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District)

From your link:

Quote:

"The Oregon/Idaho line was established 163 years ago and is now outdated,” the Greater Idaho group says on its webpage. “It makes no sense in its current location because it doesn’t match the location of the cultural divide in Oregon.”

This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ?
I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you.

Maybe you should ask the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District why he said that. (He may be the representative for your district; if not, I suspect he represents an adjacent district.)

On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm. He's not the only one who's doing that. Journalists and newspaper editors throughout Oregon are poking fun at Greater Idaho.

Here's a sample from the current issue of Central Oregonian, with some editing to generalize beyond the editorialist's city and county, but with the editor's note (and yes, Jason Chaney is the Managing Editor) in its original formatting:

Originally Posted by Jason Chaney

Editor's note: The following column is not meant, in any way, to be taken seriously. I intentionally provided examples so absurd that they could only be viewed as humor ... or attempted humor.

....

But I wonder if this is the right choice for [our county] — relax, I'm not suggesting we stay with Oregon, at least not as we know it....And I think we can do better than [our town], Idaho.

First thought: Maybe it's not the rural counties that need to leave. Why not kick Portland out? — send them to Washington....And you can't tell me Washington wouldn't benefit from a few more electoral college votes and seats in Congress, courtesy of Portland's population infusion. We could even throw in all the Portland metro cities — Beaverton, Washington, has a nice ring to it.

I know, I know — a pipe dream....OK, fine. How about [our county] gets picky about which state it joins. Idaho's pretty nice...but what about that sales tax? Who wants that headache. Shouldn't we seek membership in a state without it? — and right now, there's four options: Alaska, Delaware, Montana and New Hampshire. So what if we have no land bordering any of them — it's not like Alaska borders any other U.S. state....

Why not abandon the idea of changing states and strike out on our own. Let's...secede [our county] from Oregon and form our own state....Thanks, Oregon, but we got this.

It's not too late. No votes have been cast. We don't have to tether [our county] to the Greater Idaho movement. We've got options. And I hope our county leaders realize it and approach them with an open mind.

Stacyhs · 16th March 2023, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example:

I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley.
— US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District)

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

Maybe you should ask the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District why he said that. (He may be the representative for your district; if not, I suspect he represents an adjacent district.)

On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm. He's not the only one who's doing that. Journalists and newspaper editors throughout Oregon are poking fun at Greater Idaho.

Here's a sample from the current issue of Central Oregonian, with some editing to generalize beyond the editorialist's city and county, but with the editor's note (and yes, Jason Chaney is the Managing Editor) in its original formatting:

I don't know why you're asking me that question as you explain it yourself:

"On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm."

Thermal · 16th March 2023, 04:35 PM

The waters are being tested for gerrymandering on an industrial scale.

W.D.Clinger · 16th March 2023, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I don't know why you're asking me that question as you explain it yourself:

"On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm."

Well, excuse me. I failed to recognize your response to my post as something someone might write after realizing that Representative Blumenauer was speaking sarcastically.

I hope my quotation of Jason Chaney's editorial leads some to greater appreciation of the diversity of views being expressed east of the Oregon Cascades.

Mojo · 16th March 2023, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

What's in it for Oregon?

A higher average IQ?

dudalb · 16th March 2023, 05:02 PM

In the end, this will go nowhere.

Craig4 · 16th March 2023, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

What's in it for Oregon?

That feeling you get after a really complete bowel movement.

gabeygoat · 16th March 2023, 05:12 PM

It's an impossibly stupid movement, that's based on right wing racist garbage, one thing they're not thinking about is immediate loss of wages. Oregon minimum wage is based on three tiers (mostly to assuage Eastern Oregon who for whatever reason didn't want living wages).
Currently, it works as such:

$14.75 per hour - Portland metro
Within the urban growth boundary, including parts of Clackamas, Multnomah, and Washington Counties

$13.50 per hour - Standard
Benton, Clatsop, Columbia, Deschutes, Hood River, Jackson, Josephine, Lane, Lincoln, Linn, Marion, Polk, Tillamook, Wasco, Yamhill, and parts of Clackamas, Multnomah, & Washington outside the urban growth boundary.

$12.50 per hour - Non-urban
Baker, Coos, Crook, Curry, Douglas, Gilliam, Grant, Harney, Jefferson, and other rightwing areas

If they get their wish, they'd get Idaho minimum wage which is still at the embarassing level of Federal MW of $7.25 an hour. These people are wanting to reduce their income by almost half so that they can, I don't know, take over bird refuges or something?

TellyKNeasuss · 16th March 2023, 05:17 PM

IMHO, states have become something of an anachronism. Yes, I understand that some level of government needs to maintain the highways and run the courts. But people like me who live in northern Virginia have MUCH more in common with the people living across the Potomac River than we do with people living near the North Carolina or Tennessee borders; I more often think of myself as a resident of the DC area than I do as a Virginian. The people living in Portland Oregon have much more in common with the people living in Seattle Washington than they do with the people living in eastern Oregon. States really are little more than arbitrary geographic areas.

Trebuchet · 16th March 2023, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

In the end, this will go nowhere.

"Nowhere" is a pretty good description of eastern Oregon, eastern Washington, and all of Idaho.

Stacyhs · 16th March 2023, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

Well, excuse me. I failed to recognize your response to my post as something someone might write after realizing that Representative Blumenauer was speaking sarcastically.

I hope my quotation of Jason Chaney's editorial leads some to greater appreciation of the diversity of views being expressed east of the Oregon Cascades.

Are you being sarcastic? I'm not upset with you; I'm just confused. I don't know where you're coming from. Can you please explain if you have a problem with what I said?

To be clear: I was saying that we can't just go redrawing state lines because part of the state doesn't agree with the majority political view.

Stacyhs · 16th March 2023, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

That feeling you get after a really complete bowel movement.

That had me literally laughing out loud!

W.D.Clinger · 16th March 2023, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

"Nowhere" is a pretty good description of eastern Oregon, eastern Washington, and all of Idaho.

W.D.Clinger · 16th March 2023, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I don't know where you're coming from.

The five pictures I posted above all show parts of Oregon that the "Greater Idaho" people would like to take away from Oregon and add to Idaho. I took those pictures, over a period of many years. They show you where I'm "coming from."

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

To be clear: I was saying that we can't just go redrawing state lines because part of the state doesn't agree with the majority political view.

It sounds as though you have been trying to agree with Representative Blumenauer and with me.

Thermal · 16th March 2023, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3ce944123f.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3ceaa63b29.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3cebf68ce5.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3d09c39304.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3ce0a3acb0.jpg

Nowhere or not, it's very pretty

16th March 2023, 06:33 AM	#1
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,036	Growing movement in Idaho to assimilate half of Oregon Partisan rancor in Oregon spills over into Idaho effort to absorb its rural neighbors Quote: “We don’t think of ourselves as a secessionist movement. We see ourselves as a self-determination movement,” McCaw said of the Greater Idaho Movement, which seeks to move the Idaho state line west to include more than half of Oregon. What would have previously been brushed off as a fringe proposition to add the predominantly Republican region of eastern Oregon into conservative Idaho has lunged forward in the Idaho state legislature. There have been plenty of other attempts across the country to break off pieces of states to try to join more politically analogous ones, but this one has advanced the furthest. The measure passed the state House last month and advanced to the state Senate, where it sits in committee, with the session expected to wrap by the end of March. CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/polit...des/index.html
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16th March 2023, 06:53 AM	#3
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,111	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon. You've been warned before about this "rational thought" stuff.
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16th March 2023, 07:18 AM	#5
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,293	That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones.
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16th March 2023, 07:26 AM	#6
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,420	Originally Posted by Donal That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones. Yes, and I'm searching for the word to call it... its sort of like a backronym. Its given as a reason for the Senate to exist, when that reason was not valid when it was created. Virginia was easily the highest population state in 1790 but contained none of the 10 largest cities. Of course the 10th largest city back then was only 5,600 people.
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16th March 2023, 07:46 AM	#7
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,314	What's in it for Oregon?
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16th March 2023, 06:49 AM	#2
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 65,278	Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon.
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16th March 2023, 07:10 AM	#4
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,371	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon. I wouldn't be shocked to find that they expect to bring one, or both, senators with them. If the whole purpose of two senators per state regardless of population was to give underpopulated rural states a fair shout against the urban states, the logical next step would be to allow the rural parts of states sole access to those senators.

16th March 2023, 07:54 AM	#8
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53,362	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Wouldn't that lose them representation in Congress? The population would be added to Idaho's and go toward a House representative, but the two Oregon senators would stay with a now even more liberal Oregon. If local issues are more important to them than federal issues, that's not going to matter very much.
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16th March 2023, 07:58 AM	#9
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,420	Originally Posted by Ziggurat If local issues are more important to them than federal issues, that's not going to matter very much. There'd be no shift in the Senate either way anyways. Idaho would still send two GOP Senators, and Oregon two Dems.
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16th March 2023, 08:07 AM	#10
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 16,475	Christian identity / white nationalism / Trump cult are at the core of this. I'll bet the American Redoubt people are all about it.
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16th March 2023, 08:13 AM	#11
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,316	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 There'd be no shift in the Senate either way anyways. Idaho would still send two GOP Senators, and Oregon two Dems. It might mess a bit with the House districting. All of eastern Oregon is covered by one house district (#2) which also extends down southwest into the Cascades around Medford. That District would probably get split, both states would need to redistrict to reflect the change. I would guess that it would result in no net change in the U.S. House of Reps, although it seems possible that the area being switched is too under-populated for Idaho to pick up a new seat. Instead it might just shave off the most conservative part of the district and flip it from a solidly conservative seat into a competitive one. There's a similar movement in Colorado to shift a few counties in the state's northeast (Weld, Morgan, Logan and few others) over to Wyoming.

16th March 2023, 08:53 AM	#12
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,987	Fortunately my county voted against it
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,987	Last edited by Hans; 16th March 2023 at 08:57 AM.

16th March 2023, 08:56 AM	#13
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,997	It's kind of pointless discussing the practical consequences since there is absolutely no possibility of it happening. And it's not remotely new, such talk has been going on for decades. Here's a similar proposal to combine northern Idaho with western Washington.
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16th March 2023, 08:59 AM	#14
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,987	Originally Posted by Trebuchet It's kind of pointless discussing the practical consequences since there is absolutely no possibility of it happening. And it's not remotely new, such talk has been going on for decades. Here's a similar proposal to combine northern Idaho with western Washington. Yeah the state of Jefferson was and is still being discussed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffer..._Pacific_state)
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,987

16th March 2023, 12:00 PM	#15
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Originally Posted by varwoche Christian identity / white nationalism / Trump cult are at the core of this. I'll bet the American Redoubt people are all about it. Agreed.

16th March 2023, 12:08 PM	#16
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,420	Sure, do it + Eastern WA. But as a condition Idaho, Montana and Wyoming must become one big crazy state. We can call it Northern Rocky Freeman on the Land Don't Tread On Me, These Colors Don't Runistan. And they'd still get around 10x the Senate representation that Californians do on a per capita basis.
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16th March 2023, 01:07 PM	#17
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 12,193	Originally Posted by sackett What's in it for Oregon? Given the type of folks they would be getting rid of it would be a big win.
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16th March 2023, 01:08 PM	#18
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,354	Originally Posted by Donal That was never the purpose, though. Less than 3% of the country lived in an urban area per the 1790 census. Every state was a rural state. The Senate was meant to protect less populated states from getting steam rolled by the heavily populated ones. And the House was the opposite where heavily populated ones would get more representation. Unfortunately over time the population amount for a seat was raised and then the total number of representatives was capped which has also benefitted the less populated ones. Heavily populated states just get screwed at both ends.
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16th March 2023, 01:26 PM	#19
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,821	Originally Posted by sackett What's in it for Oregon? That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example: I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley. — US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District)
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16th March 2023, 01:41 PM	#20
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,414	Borg Oregon?
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16th March 2023, 02:52 PM	#21
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example: I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley. — US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District) From your link: Quote: "The Oregon/Idaho line was established 163 years ago and is now outdated,” the Greater Idaho group says on its webpage. “It makes no sense in its current location because it doesn’t match the location of the cultural divide in Oregon.” This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ? I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you.

16th March 2023, 03:00 PM	#22
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,414	Originally Posted by Stacyhs From your link: This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ? I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you. .I'm pretty sure that was the original point the behind whole states' rights issue at the creation of the nation, If you didn't like the laws of the state you were in, you were perfectly welcome to pack up and move to another state that more closely aligned with your views.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 16th March 2023 at 03:01 PM.

16th March 2023, 03:30 PM	#23
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,354	Originally Posted by Stacyhs From your link: This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ? I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you. And what happens if 10, or 20 years from now the cultural divide changes? Do we just redraw states every couple decades?
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,354	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

16th March 2023, 03:36 PM	#24
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,314	Originally Posted by The_Animus And what happens if 10, or 20 years from now the cultural divide changes? Do we just redraw states every couple decades? Nah. Rapture's coming way before that.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

16th March 2023, 03:56 PM	#25
Shadowdweller Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,313	The neurodegenerate vermin are more than welcome to leave our state. They won't be taking any land with them.
	__________________ Might I posit that individuals who regularly endorse murderers or child rapists might not actually be interested in good faith discussions? Far be it for me to judge another's non-harmful past time; but I personally find more enjoyment and productivity in activities that do not involve feeding bridge-dwellers, flogging dead equines, or trying to debate stones.

16th March 2023, 04:20 PM	#26
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,821	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example: I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley. — US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District) From your link: Quote: "The Oregon/Idaho line was established 163 years ago and is now outdated,” the Greater Idaho group says on its webpage. “It makes no sense in its current location because it doesn’t match the location of the cultural divide in Oregon.” This could be said of other areas of the country, too. Should we redraw state lines for those, too? Should the eastern part of PA become part of NJ? I'm an Oregonian and my advice to those who want to join Idaho: if you don't like the majority political view here, move. I'm sure Idaho would welcome you. Maybe you should ask the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District why he said that. (He may be the representative for your district; if not, I suspect he represents an adjacent district.) On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm. He's not the only one who's doing that. Journalists and newspaper editors throughout Oregon are poking fun at Greater Idaho. Here's a sample from the current issue of Central Oregonian, with some editing to generalize beyond the editorialist's city and county, but with the editor's note (and yes, Jason Chaney is the Managing Editor) in its original formatting: Originally Posted by Jason Chaney Editor's note: The following column is not meant, in any way, to be taken seriously. I intentionally provided examples so absurd that they could only be viewed as humor ... or attempted humor. .... But I wonder if this is the right choice for [our county] — relax, I'm not suggesting we stay with Oregon, at least not as we know it....And I think we can do better than [our town], Idaho. First thought: Maybe it's not the rural counties that need to leave. Why not kick Portland out? — send them to Washington....And you can't tell me Washington wouldn't benefit from a few more electoral college votes and seats in Congress, courtesy of Portland's population infusion. We could even throw in all the Portland metro cities — Beaverton, Washington, has a nice ring to it. I know, I know — a pipe dream....OK, fine. How about [our county] gets picky about which state it joins. Idaho's pretty nice...but what about that sales tax? Who wants that headache. Shouldn't we seek membership in a state without it? — and right now, there's four options: Alaska, Delaware, Montana and New Hampshire. So what if we have no land bordering any of them — it's not like Alaska borders any other U.S. state.... Why not abandon the idea of changing states and strike out on our own. Let's...secede [our county] from Oregon and form our own state....Thanks, Oregon, but we got this. It's not too late. No votes have been cast. We don't have to tether [our county] to the Greater Idaho movement. We've got options. And I hope our county leaders realize it and approach them with an open mind.
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,821

16th March 2023, 04:34 PM	#27
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,387	Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger That remains to be seen. For this to have any chance of happening, there will have to be some serious horse-trading. For example: I would entertain a trade for Boise and Sun Valley. — US Representative Earl Blumenauer (representing Oregon's 3rd District) Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger Maybe you should ask the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District why he said that. (He may be the representative for your district; if not, I suspect he represents an adjacent district.) On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm. He's not the only one who's doing that. Journalists and newspaper editors throughout Oregon are poking fun at Greater Idaho. Here's a sample from the current issue of Central Oregonian, with some editing to generalize beyond the editorialist's city and county, but with the editor's note (and yes, Jason Chaney is the Managing Editor) in its original formatting: I don't know why you're asking me that question as you explain it yourself: "On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm."

16th March 2023, 04:35 PM	#28
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,896	The waters are being tested for gerrymandering on an industrial scale.
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

16th March 2023, 04:50 PM	#29
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,821	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I don't know why you're asking me that question as you explain it yourself: "On my reading, the Honorable US Representative of Oregon's 3rd District was highlighting the absurdity of the Greater Idaho proposal by employing some polite sarcasm." Well, excuse me. I failed to recognize your response to my post as something someone might write after realizing that Representative Blumenauer was speaking sarcastically. I hope my quotation of Jason Chaney's editorial leads some to greater appreciation of the diversity of views being expressed east of the Oregon Cascades.
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,821

16th March 2023, 04:55 PM	#30
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,853	Originally Posted by sackett What's in it for Oregon? A higher average IQ?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

16th March 2023, 05:02 PM	#31
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,771	In the end, this will go nowhere.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th March 2023, 05:02 PM	#32
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 26,764	Originally Posted by sackett What's in it for Oregon? That feeling you get after a really complete bowel movement.
	__________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.

16th March 2023, 05:12 PM	#33
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,686	It's an impossibly stupid movement, that's based on right wing racist garbage, one thing they're not thinking about is immediate loss of wages. Oregon minimum wage is based on three tiers (mostly to assuage Eastern Oregon who for whatever reason didn't want living wages). Currently, it works as such: $14.75 per hour - Portland metro Within the urban growth boundary, including parts of Clackamas, Multnomah, and Washington Counties $13.50 per hour - Standard Benton, Clatsop, Columbia, Deschutes, Hood River, Jackson, Josephine, Lane, Lincoln, Linn, Marion, Polk, Tillamook, Wasco, Yamhill, and parts of Clackamas, Multnomah, & Washington outside the urban growth boundary. $12.50 per hour - Non-urban Baker, Coos, Crook, Curry, Douglas, Gilliam, Grant, Harney, Jefferson, and other rightwing areas If they get their wish, they'd get Idaho minimum wage which is still at the embarassing level of Federal MW of $7.25 an hour. These people are wanting to reduce their income by almost half so that they can, I don't know, take over bird refuges or something?
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

16th March 2023, 05:17 PM	#34
TellyKNeasuss Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,967	IMHO, states have become something of an anachronism. Yes, I understand that some level of government needs to maintain the highways and run the courts. But people like me who live in northern Virginia have MUCH more in common with the people living across the Potomac River than we do with people living near the North Carolina or Tennessee borders; I more often think of myself as a resident of the DC area than I do as a Virginian. The people living in Portland Oregon have much more in common with the people living in Seattle Washington than they do with the people living in eastern Oregon. States really are little more than arbitrary geographic areas.
	__________________ "Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan Last edited by TellyKNeasuss; 16th March 2023 at 05:21 PM.

16th March 2023, 05:50 PM	#35
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 35,997	Originally Posted by dudalb In the end, this will go nowhere. "Nowhere" is a pretty good description of eastern Oregon, eastern Washington, and all of Idaho.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.