Bitcoin - Part 3 - Page 26

lomiller · 10th February 2021, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank.

What happens if\when Coinbase joins the dozens of bitcoin exchanges that have ceased to exist?

ChrisBFRPKY · 10th February 2021, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

What happens if\when Coinbase joins the dozens of bitcoin exchanges that have ceased to exist?

Same thing as if/when your bank ceases to exist. They're US based and FDIC insured so Uncle Sam turns over your cash same as if your bank failed. They'd also have to return your assets in this case Bitcoin or other coins you have there, same as your bank would have to return your safety deposit box contents etc.

Overseas exchanges are known for fly by night activities and you can bet they're not regulated by US banking or exchange laws. It's best to stick with a US based company.

lomiller · 10th February 2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Same thing as if/when your bank ceases to exist. They're US based and FDIC insured so Uncle Sam turns over your cash same as if your bank failed.

https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbas...inbase-insured

Quote:

Digital currency is not legal tender, is not backed by the government, and digital currency accounts and value balances on Coinbase are not subject to Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or Securities Investor Protection Corporation protections.

The do have some "insurance" provisions, but this mainly takes the form of USD accounts and USD denominated holdings .IOW they don't really hold bitcoin, they hold other assets. This could be a potential issue as well because with the increase in bitcoin prices these USD denominated assets cover less than the actual bitcoin that was deposited on the exchange.

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/co...do-you-use-it/

Quote:

Coinbase provides insurance by pooling Coinbase balances and holding them in USD custodial accounts, USD denominated money market funds, or liquid U.S. Treasuries.

ChrisBFRPKY · 10th February 2021, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbas...inbase-insured

The do have some "insurance" provisions, but this mainly takes the form of USD accounts and USD denominated holdings .IOW they don't really hold bitcoin, they hold other assets. This could be a potential issue as well because with the increase in bitcoin prices these USD denominated assets cover less than the actual bitcoin that was deposited on the exchange.

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/co...do-you-use-it/

Coinbase definitely does hold Bitcoin. You are mistaken on this point. They may not hold cash.

They do not convert your Bitcoin into cash and invest it. What would happen if the price of Bitcoin increased? How would they rebuy?

If you'll check into it a bit further about the good old "safety" deposit boxes at your bank:

"A safe deposit box is not a deposit account. It is storage space provided by the bank, so the contents, including cash, checks or other valuables, are not insured by FDIC deposit insurance if damaged or stolen. Also, financial institutions generally do not insure the contents of safe deposit boxes."

Coins in Coinbase are covered by insurance and you'll get those back. I think that's much better than the bank option of uninsured deposit boxes.

Again, if Coinbase were to go bust they'd have to return your cash (FDIC) and assets even if they were stolen. In contrast if the bank goes bust they would have to return your cash (FDIC) and contents of safe deposit box UNLESS IT WAS STOLEN, in which case you're SOL with the box contents.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 05:00 AM

FYI

There have been coordinated Bitcoin short squeezes taking place over the last couple of hours.

Dr.Sid · 11th February 2021, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

FYI

There have been coordinated Bitcoin short squeezes taking place over the last couple of hours.

Coordinated by who ? If you use FYI add some actual info :-)

lomiller · 11th February 2021, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Coins in Coinbase are covered by insurance and you'll get those back.

They can't get back bitcoin that has been transferred out of the companies wallets. The only insurance comes in the form of holding assets other than bitcoin.

Depending on how much reserve they have in other assets they may be able to pay out a few pennies on the dollar. As you yourself pointed out, it's impossible for them to be holding enough other assets to pay out the full market value of bitcoin that has been signed over to them.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Coordinated by who ? If you use FYI add some actual info :-)

For my FYI and heads up posts in this thread, the proper response should be "Thanks Chris, I made money on that."

Don't ask to peek behind the curtain.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

They can't get back bitcoin that has been transferred out of the companies wallets. The only insurance comes in the form of holding assets other than bitcoin.

Depending on how much reserve they have in other assets they may be able to pay out a few pennies on the dollar. As you yourself pointed out, it's impossible for them to be holding enough other assets to pay out the full market value of bitcoin that has been signed over to them.

You're making an issue out of something that does not exist.

Coinbase has secure hot wallets online, and offline cold storage for Bitcoin.

They do not trade nor invest with your BTC.

Cash reserves are another matter. I'm sure they have lucrative banking deals in which they make money from holding customer cash deposited. I would.

Dr.Sid · 11th February 2021, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

For my FYI and heads up posts in this thread, the proper response should be "Thanks Chris, I made money on that."

Don't ask to peek behind the curtain.

Sadly I only read it when it was over. Also I don't really trust anyone on the internet, especially here, as skepticism as a virtue here

lomiller · 11th February 2021, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

You're making an issue out of something that does not exist.

40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist?

xjx388 · 11th February 2021, 10:23 AM

Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general, but I do know I personally love the stupid digital currency! I haven't bought anything with it or used it in any way; but, dang! Over the last couple of years, I slowly bult my bitcoin holding, a 10th of a coin, here, another quarter coin there. At the time I was buying, it's value was ranging from 3k-7k and I would just look for it to dip and buy a little. I ended up with a little over 6 bitcoin total (including 3 I bought at ~$15 and never sold) and then I thought, what the hell am I doing gambling so much on such a volatile thing? So I just held on to it. Well, I wish I had had the guts to gamble and buy more. This morning, I sold 4 bitcoin at right over $47000 per. I am very tempted to sell my last two coins, but what the hell? At this point, I can hold a little more.

I still have 300 Electroneum coins that have actually declined significantly in value since I bought them like in 2017 or 2018 at about .01 a coin. I also have a bunch of free coins that coinbase gave me just for watching videos to learn about them. I got like $6 worth of Maker coins (and traded a bunch of other free coins for Maker) in December when it was valued at around $500; it's now worth about $2500. I got $10 worth of Stellar Lumens (XLM) in November when it was worth .05; it's now worth .46. At my son's urging, I bought some Doge on a lark (5000 coins) when it was worth less than a penny; it's now worth .07.

So yeah . . . don't ask me what the hell any of those coins are actually good for or where I can use them. Instead, ask me how awesome my new Tesla is . . .

a_unique_person · 11th February 2021, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist?

Losing your password.

psionl0 · 11th February 2021, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank.

If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through.

Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares.

Matthew Ellard · 11th February 2021, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general,

I imagine part of that is the same thing as Dutch 17th century, tulip bulb trading

What Was the Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble?
The Dutch tulip bulb market bubble, also known as 'tulipmania' was one of the most famous market bubbles and crashes of all time. It occurred in Holland during the early to mid 1600s when speculation drove the value of tulip bulbs to extremes. At the height of the market, the rarest tulip bulbs traded for as much as six times the average person's annual salary.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d...ket_bubble.asp

psionl0 · 11th February 2021, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard

I imagine part of that is the same thing as Dutch 17th century, tulip bulb trading

Wow! I have never heard of this before - apart from the thousands of times it has been brought up in this thread.

For those who have been paying attention, what is the difference between the tulip mania and bitcoin?

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist?

Saying that Coinbase sells or trades their customer's Bitcoins or invests them is the problem that doesn't exist.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through.

Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares.

I agree that there are faster products than Bitcoin. However, there are cards available that allow you to use your deposited Bitcoin as if it was cash in the bank. A store of value.

By using Bitcoin as a store of value, then combining that with the convenience of a bank card, it's no issue to buy a cup of coffee instantly with that card. In the end you are using your Bitcoin to pay for the coffee exactly the same as if you were using a bank card funded by cash deposits. Except the Bitcoin funded card clears faster than the cash funded bank card.

Also with a BTC funded card, you may find you have more available cash value at the end of the month than you had at the beginning. Not many bank cards can do that.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general, but I do know I personally love the stupid digital currency! I haven't bought anything with it or used it in any way; but, dang! Over the last couple of years, I slowly bult my bitcoin holding, a 10th of a coin, here, another quarter coin there. At the time I was buying, it's value was ranging from 3k-7k and I would just look for it to dip and buy a little. I ended up with a little over 6 bitcoin total (including 3 I bought at ~$15 and never sold) and then I thought, what the hell am I doing gambling so much on such a volatile thing? So I just held on to it. Well, I wish I had had the guts to gamble and buy more. This morning, I sold 4 bitcoin at right over $47000 per. I am very tempted to sell my last two coins, but what the hell? At this point, I can hold a little more.

I still have 300 Electroneum coins that have actually declined significantly in value since I bought them like in 2017 or 2018 at about .01 a coin. I also have a bunch of free coins that coinbase gave me just for watching videos to learn about them. I got like $6 worth of Maker coins (and traded a bunch of other free coins for Maker) in December when it was valued at around $500; it's now worth about $2500. I got $10 worth of Stellar Lumens (XLM) in November when it was worth .05; it's now worth .46. At my son's urging, I bought some Doge on a lark (5000 coins) when it was worth less than a penny; it's now worth .07.

So yeah . . . don't ask me what the hell any of those coins are actually good for or where I can use them. Instead, ask me how awesome my new Tesla is . . .

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Losing your password.

This is a great point and a likely culprit leading to the loss of many BTC. For those who choose to keep their Bitcoin at home in a wallet. Make sure to record your password in a safe but memorable place(s).

Make a copy your wallet.dat file found in the Windows "roaming" folder and place copies on multiple jump drives. Place them in separate but memorable place(s). Have a backup plan for every foreseeable mishap. "What if the house burns?", "What if my hard drive fails?", go to plan B etc.

This may seem a bit silly if you only have a few sats of a BTC, but if you have a few hundred or a few thousand BTC it's perfectly reasonable to entertain a bit of paranoia while forming a security plan.

portlandatheist · 11th February 2021, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank.

Bitcoin isn't for everyone. I find it more enjoyable and productive to listen to Jimmy Buffet rather than Warren. Because of the generation gap, he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Literally, he doesn't know how it works and it scares him. Ask Warren how he did on his oil stocks back in March 2020....He should have bought Bitcoin.

Originally Posted by psionl0

If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through.

Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares.

That is the catch isn't it? Any fast transaction really isn't an actual bitcoin transaction and even though coinbase is able to make the transaction fast, it could never scale to what other currencies can accomplish which are doing real transactions in real time. A coinbase transaction is not the same as a bitcoin transaction, kinda like when I use my Starbucks app to buy a Starbucks coffee. This is an important point I want to make because no matter where bitcoin goes, it will always be tightly tethered to other currencies that can perform functions that it will never be able to perform. Even the biggest bitcoin fan will care, and will care deeply, what the exchange rate is between bitcoin and the US dollar.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Sadly I only read it when it was over. Also I don't really trust anyone on the internet, especially here, as skepticism as a virtue here

I wasn't asking for anyone to trust me, I was advising everyone to look at the charts.

Some here are traders and or investors in BTC. Those are the folks that recognize when we have confirmed short squeezes and shakeouts going on, the bulls are running and the price will increase soon, this activity is visible in the charts and historically precedes a price increase and possible new all time highs.

I will admit that sometimes I post some things well in advance and maybe a bit cryptic for fun to give some a brief edge. Sometimes I get bored staring at the morning stars during the early AM and I'll pop in for a few posts to help my fellow man. I don't ask anyone for trust, I remember that good skeptics do some verification after the fact. As sure as the Sun rises in the East.

ChrisBFRPKY · 11th February 2021, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

That is the catch isn't it? Any fast transaction really isn't an actual bitcoin transaction and even though coinbase is able to make the transaction fast, it could never scale to what other currencies can accomplish which are doing real transactions in real time. A coinbase transaction is not the same as a bitcoin transaction, kinda like when I use my Starbucks app to buy a Starbucks coffee. This is an important point I want to make because no matter where bitcoin goes, it will always be tightly tethered to other currencies that can perform functions that it will never be able to perform. Even the biggest bitcoin fan will care, and will care deeply, what the exchange rate is between bitcoin and the US dollar.

It's not like you can carry physical Bitcoin with you like you can cash. But just as you use your bank card to pay for items with the cash in your bank, you can do exactly the same with a card that is funded by Bitcoin.

I don't like cash now myself (I fear Covid bugs may be crawling on it.) I prefer to use my card whenever I make a purchase.

Nobody claims Bitcoin is perfect. It's just a good store of value.

About the exchange rate between Bitcoin and the US dollar, yes it's important. But if you'll notice it gets cheaper to buy things with Bitcoin over time and more expensive to buy things with US dollars. Think about why that is and you're onto something.

lomiller · 12th February 2021, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Saying that Coinbase sells or trades their customer's Bitcoins or invests them is the problem that doesn't exist.

How do you think they can make "instant transactions"? They can do it because "your" bitcoin is just a book keeping entry to them. They are functioning like a bank does wrt demand deposits, what you really own isn't bitcoin it's an IOU from coinbase to give you bitcoin when you ask for it. As shown above, however, these deposits are not eligible for deposit insurance because bitcoin isn't legal tender.

You should also consider how they get the $billions in dollar denominated assets that are serving as "insurance" for your bitcoin. They are certainly not using tens of billions of dollars of their own money.

psionl0 · 12th February 2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

By using Bitcoin as a store of value, then combining that with the convenience of a bank card, it's no issue to buy a cup of coffee instantly with that card. In the end you are using your Bitcoin to pay for the coffee exactly the same as if you were using a bank card funded by cash deposits. Except the Bitcoin funded card clears faster than the cash funded bank card.

You are missing the point that once you have to rely on a 3rd party to complete a bitcoin transaction you negate one of the biggest selling points of bitcoin.

Of course, if your favorite shopkeeper/publican lets you put things on the slate then they may accept zero confirmations and you would still get by without a 3rd party. I don't think that this is widespread though otherwise the transaction fees would rise dramatically since bitcoin doesn't scale.

ChrisBFRPKY · 12th February 2021, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

You are missing the point that once you have to rely on a 3rd party to complete a bitcoin transaction you negate one of the biggest selling points of bitcoin.

Of course, if your favorite shopkeeper/publican lets you put things on the slate then they may accept zero confirmations and you would still get by without a 3rd party. I don't think that this is widespread though otherwise the transaction fees would rise dramatically since bitcoin doesn't scale.

I get that. As a crypto currency there are much better options than Bitcoin as many coins have shorter block times. Bitcoin is not the fastest product on the market.

Bitcoin is not the answer for every problem within our financial institutions but it does have its advantages and solves several specific problems. I've never shared the view that Bitcoin would ever replace the US dollar as a currency, only that it is good for working with the US dollar as a store of wealth.

I don't believe gold will ever replace the US dollar either. I do believe it is much easier and faster to transfer large amounts of wealth by using Bitcoin rather than US dollars or gold though.

My point was/is that if we use Bitcoin mainly as a store of value, the same as we do with cash in a bank, and we tap into that stored value by using it with a card for everyday transactions, as we do with cash in a bank, Bitcoin is a better option than cash in a bank. It also works much better as a store of value than things like gold.

If nothing else, the value of the Bitcoin stored over time, tends to go up, in contrast the value of the US dollar tends to go down with rising inflation. I'm sure you remember when a couple of pizzas used to cost 10,000 Bitcoin. Soon that amount of Bitcoin will likely fund a pizza chain. As things increase in US dollar price over time the same things decrease in the price of Bitcoin over time.

One good deposit of Bitcoin to fund an account will likely last a very long time if not indefinitely. Unless one needs a new Lamborghini more often than not of course.

ChrisBFRPKY · 12th February 2021, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

How do you think they can make "instant transactions"? They can do it because "your" bitcoin is just a book keeping entry to them. They are functioning like a bank does wrt demand deposits, what you really own isn't bitcoin it's an IOU from coinbase to give you bitcoin when you ask for it. As shown above, however, these deposits are not eligible for deposit insurance because bitcoin isn't legal tender.

You should also consider how they get the $billions in dollar denominated assets that are serving as "insurance" for your bitcoin. They are certainly not using tens of billions of dollars of their own money.

Entertaining paranoid thoughts about ways of losing wealth is part of what drives me to take so many precautions. I can appreciate the sentiment. Another reason I won't go anywhere near the stock market.

psionl0 · 12th February 2021, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

My point was/is that if we use Bitcoin mainly as a store of value, the same as we do with cash in a bank, and we tap into that stored value by using it with a card for everyday transactions, as we do with cash in a bank, Bitcoin is a better option than cash in a bank. It also works much better as a store of value than things like gold.

In this instance it is not actually. The deflationary nature of bitcoin plus the need to offer transaction fees act as a disincentive to spending bitcoin.

If you want a crypto to be better than cash in a bank then it needs to have an inbuilt spending incentive. This can be achieved either by making it inflationary (the new coin generation rate increases exponentially over time) or it needs to be subject to demurrage. Either could form part of a block reward for the miners instead of transaction fees. Make such a currency readily interchangeable with bitcoin and you are a step closer to the libertarian dream.

Freicoin attempted to be such a currency but it still had transaction fees and you had to go through an exchange if you wanted to exchange them for any other currency so it didn't take off.

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th February 2021, 04:06 AM

Apple Pay can now be used to spend Bitcoin

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pay-...spend-bitcoin/

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th February 2021, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by psionl0

In this instance it is not actually. The deflationary nature of bitcoin plus the need to offer transaction fees act as a disincentive to spending bitcoin.

If you want a crypto to be better than cash in a bank then it needs to have an inbuilt spending incentive. This can be achieved either by making it inflationary (the new coin generation rate increases exponentially over time) or it needs to be subject to demurrage. Either could form part of a block reward for the miners instead of transaction fees. Make such a currency readily interchangeable with bitcoin and you are a step closer to the libertarian dream.

Freicoin attempted to be such a currency but it still had transaction fees and you had to go through an exchange if you wanted to exchange them for any other currency so it didn't take off.

I think making a cryptocurrency inflationary would be a terrible idea. The value would only decrease over time. As more coins are available, the price would only go down.

I still maintain that BTC is better than cash if only for this reason:

I just checked my bank account a short while ago, the amount is exactly the same as it was yesterday.

I also just checked my trading portfolio during this post. (I dusted off my trading coins recently). As I was looking at the $ amount, not only is there more $ value in there now but it's increasing in $ value a bit more at the moment. To me, that's why BTC is better than cash.

I'll admit BTC is not the Libertarian dream. Monero would be much closer IMO but this is the BTC thread so there ends that.

psionl0 · 13th February 2021, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I think making a cryptocurrency inflationary would be a terrible idea. The value would only decrease over time. As more coins are available, the price would only go down.

That's the whole idea. The proceeds of inflation or demurrage would replace transaction fees. Neither is a problem if you are doing frequent transactions.

Bitcoin is designed to be hoarded. You can't make the illogical leap that it is also designed to do transactions.

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th February 2021, 11:05 PM

$49,476 a few minutes ago...

Samson · 17th February 2021, 01:58 AM

Winkelvoss bros get last laugh.
Worth 10 billion each.
Zuckerburg has given away 99% of his money.
The bros will make no such strategic error in their path to world domination.

ChrisBFRPKY · 17th February 2021, 04:39 AM

$51,612 It looks like the 50K barrier is in the rear view.

Skeptic Ginger · 17th February 2021, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Winkelvoss bros get last laugh.
Worth 10 billion each.
Zuckerburg has given away 99% of his money.
The bros will make no such strategic error in their path to world domination.

I know these names, I know what happened with the beginning of FB.

But WTF is this? I don't even get the joke. Sorry.

I hear bitcoin went above 50 grand today (or yesterday or whenever). I wonder how much my brother invested? He said he was doing quite well when it was at 47K. I wonder if he should pull some of the profit out and diversify? (He does have other stock investments.) Probably hard to do that when it's going up so fast.

I'll be leaving my $100 in. That was the point, I could afford to lose it.

ChrisBFRPKY · 19th February 2021, 09:46 AM

$54,800 a few minutes ago, testing $55K

ChrisBFRPKY · 22nd February 2021, 10:12 AM

Welcome to the Shakeout and FUD stages.

Added info: I'm sure this has absolutely nothing to do with the stock market being held up with match sticks for the past year...or the impending stock market implosion...

The Don · 23rd February 2021, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Welcome to the Shakeout and FUD stages.

Added info: I'm sure this has absolutely nothing to do with the stock market being held up with match sticks for the past year...or the impending stock market implosion...

Which has been being predicted for the last goodness-knows how long.

Which is not to say that it couldn't happen tomorrow, but pundits have predicted about fifty of the last five bear markets.

psionl0 · 24th February 2021, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

pundits have predicted about fifty of the last five bear markets.

Not as impressive as their record with bitcoin. They have predicted 1000 out of the last 0 end of bitcoin forevers.

ChrisBFRPKY · 24th February 2021, 07:21 PM

Karma is real.

A couple of days ago Janet Yellen was crowing once again about how inefficient Bitcoin was and again acting as a FUD cheerleader likely for her hedge fund buddies to buy into Bitcoin at a discount.

Today the Federal Reserve suffers widespread disruption to payment services.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/busin...ire/index.html

10th February 2021, 01:14 PM	#1001
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,469	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank. What happens if\when Coinbase joins the dozens of bitcoin exchanges that have ceased to exist?
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

10th February 2021, 01:47 PM	#1002
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by lomiller What happens if\when Coinbase joins the dozens of bitcoin exchanges that have ceased to exist? Same thing as if/when your bank ceases to exist. They're US based and FDIC insured so Uncle Sam turns over your cash same as if your bank failed. They'd also have to return your assets in this case Bitcoin or other coins you have there, same as your bank would have to return your safety deposit box contents etc. Overseas exchanges are known for fly by night activities and you can bet they're not regulated by US banking or exchange laws. It's best to stick with a US based company.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

10th February 2021, 02:42 PM	#1003
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,469	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Same thing as if/when your bank ceases to exist. They're US based and FDIC insured so Uncle Sam turns over your cash same as if your bank failed. https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbas...inbase-insured Quote: Digital currency is not legal tender, is not backed by the government, and digital currency accounts and value balances on Coinbase are not subject to Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or Securities Investor Protection Corporation protections. The do have some "insurance" provisions, but this mainly takes the form of USD accounts and USD denominated holdings .IOW they don't really hold bitcoin, they hold other assets. This could be a potential issue as well because with the increase in bitcoin prices these USD denominated assets cover less than the actual bitcoin that was deposited on the exchange. https://www.investopedia.com/tech/co...do-you-use-it/ Quote: Coinbase provides insurance by pooling Coinbase balances and holding them in USD custodial accounts, USD denominated money market funds, or liquid U.S. Treasuries.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

10th February 2021, 09:15 PM	#1004
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by lomiller https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbas...inbase-insured The do have some "insurance" provisions, but this mainly takes the form of USD accounts and USD denominated holdings .IOW they don't really hold bitcoin, they hold other assets. This could be a potential issue as well because with the increase in bitcoin prices these USD denominated assets cover less than the actual bitcoin that was deposited on the exchange. https://www.investopedia.com/tech/co...do-you-use-it/ Coinbase definitely does hold Bitcoin. You are mistaken on this point. They may not hold cash. They do not convert your Bitcoin into cash and invest it. What would happen if the price of Bitcoin increased? How would they rebuy? If you'll check into it a bit further about the good old "safety" deposit boxes at your bank: "A safe deposit box is not a deposit account. It is storage space provided by the bank, so the contents, including cash, checks or other valuables, are not insured by FDIC deposit insurance if damaged or stolen. Also, financial institutions generally do not insure the contents of safe deposit boxes." Coins in Coinbase are covered by insurance and you'll get those back. I think that's much better than the bank option of uninsured deposit boxes. Again, if Coinbase were to go bust they'd have to return your cash (FDIC) and assets even if they were stolen. In contrast if the bank goes bust they would have to return your cash (FDIC) and contents of safe deposit box UNLESS IT WAS STOLEN, in which case you're SOL with the box contents.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 10th February 2021 at 09:38 PM. Reason: sentence structure

11th February 2021, 05:00 AM	#1005
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	FYI There have been coordinated Bitcoin short squeezes taking place over the last couple of hours.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 07:51 AM	#1006
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,216	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY FYI There have been coordinated Bitcoin short squeezes taking place over the last couple of hours. Coordinated by who ? If you use FYI add some actual info :-)

11th February 2021, 08:37 AM	#1007
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,469	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Coins in Coinbase are covered by insurance and you'll get those back. They can't get back bitcoin that has been transferred out of the companies wallets. The only insurance comes in the form of holding assets other than bitcoin. Depending on how much reserve they have in other assets they may be able to pay out a few pennies on the dollar. As you yourself pointed out, it's impossible for them to be holding enough other assets to pay out the full market value of bitcoin that has been signed over to them.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

11th February 2021, 09:03 AM	#1008
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Coordinated by who ? If you use FYI add some actual info :-) For my FYI and heads up posts in this thread, the proper response should be "Thanks Chris, I made money on that." Don't ask to peek behind the curtain.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 09:08 AM	#1009
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by lomiller They can't get back bitcoin that has been transferred out of the companies wallets. The only insurance comes in the form of holding assets other than bitcoin. Depending on how much reserve they have in other assets they may be able to pay out a few pennies on the dollar. As you yourself pointed out, it's impossible for them to be holding enough other assets to pay out the full market value of bitcoin that has been signed over to them. You're making an issue out of something that does not exist. Coinbase has secure hot wallets online, and offline cold storage for Bitcoin. They do not trade nor invest with your BTC. Cash reserves are another matter. I'm sure they have lucrative banking deals in which they make money from holding customer cash deposited. I would.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 09:45 AM	#1010
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,216	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY For my FYI and heads up posts in this thread, the proper response should be "Thanks Chris, I made money on that." Don't ask to peek behind the curtain. Sadly I only read it when it was over. Also I don't really trust anyone on the internet, especially here, as skepticism as a virtue here

11th February 2021, 09:52 AM	#1011
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,469	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY You're making an issue out of something that does not exist. 40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist?
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

11th February 2021, 10:23 AM	#1012
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,305	Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general, but I do know I personally love the stupid digital currency! I haven't bought anything with it or used it in any way; but, dang! Over the last couple of years, I slowly bult my bitcoin holding, a 10th of a coin, here, another quarter coin there. At the time I was buying, it's value was ranging from 3k-7k and I would just look for it to dip and buy a little. I ended up with a little over 6 bitcoin total (including 3 I bought at ~$15 and never sold) and then I thought, what the hell am I doing gambling so much on such a volatile thing? So I just held on to it. Well, I wish I had had the guts to gamble and buy more. This morning, I sold 4 bitcoin at right over $47000 per. I am very tempted to sell my last two coins, but what the hell? At this point, I can hold a little more. I still have 300 Electroneum coins that have actually declined significantly in value since I bought them like in 2017 or 2018 at about .01 a coin. I also have a bunch of free coins that coinbase gave me just for watching videos to learn about them. I got like $6 worth of Maker coins (and traded a bunch of other free coins for Maker) in December when it was valued at around $500; it's now worth about $2500. I got $10 worth of Stellar Lumens (XLM) in November when it was worth .05; it's now worth .46. At my son's urging, I bought some Doge on a lark (5000 coins) when it was worth less than a penny; it's now worth .07. So yeah . . . don't ask me what the hell any of those coins are actually good for or where I can use them. Instead, ask me how awesome my new Tesla is . . .
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,305	__________________ Hello.

11th February 2021, 02:19 PM	#1013
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,079	Originally Posted by lomiller 40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist? Losing your password.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

11th February 2021, 03:13 PM	#1014
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,156	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank. If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through. Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

11th February 2021, 04:07 PM	#1015
Matthew Ellard Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,029	Originally Posted by xjx388 Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general, I imagine part of that is the same thing as Dutch 17th century, tulip bulb trading What Was the Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble? The Dutch tulip bulb market bubble, also known as 'tulipmania' was one of the most famous market bubbles and crashes of all time. It occurred in Holland during the early to mid 1600s when speculation drove the value of tulip bulbs to extremes. At the height of the market, the rarest tulip bulbs traded for as much as six times the average person's annual salary. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d...ket_bubble.asp

11th February 2021, 04:18 PM	#1016
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,156	Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard I imagine part of that is the same thing as Dutch 17th century, tulip bulb trading Wow! I have never heard of this before - apart from the thousands of times it has been brought up in this thread. For those who have been paying attention, what is the difference between the tulip mania and bitcoin?
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

11th February 2021, 05:50 PM	#1017
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by lomiller 40+ exchanges going down, taking their clients bitcoin with them is a problem that doesn't exist? Saying that Coinbase sells or trades their customer's Bitcoins or invests them is the problem that doesn't exist.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 06:00 PM	#1018
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by psionl0 If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through. Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares. I agree that there are faster products than Bitcoin. However, there are cards available that allow you to use your deposited Bitcoin as if it was cash in the bank. A store of value. By using Bitcoin as a store of value, then combining that with the convenience of a bank card, it's no issue to buy a cup of coffee instantly with that card. In the end you are using your Bitcoin to pay for the coffee exactly the same as if you were using a bank card funded by cash deposits. Except the Bitcoin funded card clears faster than the cash funded bank card. Also with a BTC funded card, you may find you have more available cash value at the end of the month than you had at the beginning. Not many bank cards can do that.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 06:02 PM	#1019
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by xjx388 Well, I still don't know anything about what really drives bitcoin or crypto in general, but I do know I personally love the stupid digital currency! I haven't bought anything with it or used it in any way; but, dang! Over the last couple of years, I slowly bult my bitcoin holding, a 10th of a coin, here, another quarter coin there. At the time I was buying, it's value was ranging from 3k-7k and I would just look for it to dip and buy a little. I ended up with a little over 6 bitcoin total (including 3 I bought at ~$15 and never sold) and then I thought, what the hell am I doing gambling so much on such a volatile thing? So I just held on to it. Well, I wish I had had the guts to gamble and buy more. This morning, I sold 4 bitcoin at right over $47000 per. I am very tempted to sell my last two coins, but what the hell? At this point, I can hold a little more. I still have 300 Electroneum coins that have actually declined significantly in value since I bought them like in 2017 or 2018 at about .01 a coin. I also have a bunch of free coins that coinbase gave me just for watching videos to learn about them. I got like $6 worth of Maker coins (and traded a bunch of other free coins for Maker) in December when it was valued at around $500; it's now worth about $2500. I got $10 worth of Stellar Lumens (XLM) in November when it was worth .05; it's now worth .46. At my son's urging, I bought some Doge on a lark (5000 coins) when it was worth less than a penny; it's now worth .07. So yeah . . . don't ask me what the hell any of those coins are actually good for or where I can use them. Instead, ask me how awesome my new Tesla is . . .
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 07:19 PM	#1020
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Losing your password. This is a great point and a likely culprit leading to the loss of many BTC. For those who choose to keep their Bitcoin at home in a wallet. Make sure to record your password in a safe but memorable place(s). Make a copy your wallet.dat file found in the Windows "roaming" folder and place copies on multiple jump drives. Place them in separate but memorable place(s). Have a backup plan for every foreseeable mishap. "What if the house burns?", "What if my hard drive fails?", go to plan B etc. This may seem a bit silly if you only have a few sats of a BTC, but if you have a few hundred or a few thousand BTC it's perfectly reasonable to entertain a bit of paranoia while forming a security plan.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 10:08 PM	#1021
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,633	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY A transaction on Coinbase is instant, no waiting if your coins are already there. As are transactions for the crypto based cards instant. The transactions on the cards actually clear faster than normal card transactions from a bank. Bitcoin isn't for everyone. I find it more enjoyable and productive to listen to Jimmy Buffet rather than Warren. Because of the generation gap, he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Literally, he doesn't know how it works and it scares him. Ask Warren how he did on his oil stocks back in March 2020....He should have bought Bitcoin. Originally Posted by psionl0 If one of the big features of bitcoin is intermediary-less transfers then it isn't logical to make a feature of the fact that you can use a third party to help speed up your transactions. You can also use the Ripple or Stellar network to make transactions faster but you still need to be able to trust the intermediary that you run the transactions through. Better to admit that Bitcoin isn't especially useful for over the counter transactions. Bitcoin is designed to take mistrust into account so you aren't going to find too many merchants who will accept zero confirmations before letting go of their wares. That is the catch isn't it? Any fast transaction really isn't an actual bitcoin transaction and even though coinbase is able to make the transaction fast, it could never scale to what other currencies can accomplish which are doing real transactions in real time. A coinbase transaction is not the same as a bitcoin transaction, kinda like when I use my Starbucks app to buy a Starbucks coffee. This is an important point I want to make because no matter where bitcoin goes, it will always be tightly tethered to other currencies that can perform functions that it will never be able to perform. Even the biggest bitcoin fan will care, and will care deeply, what the exchange rate is between bitcoin and the US dollar.

11th February 2021, 10:41 PM	#1022
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Sadly I only read it when it was over. Also I don't really trust anyone on the internet, especially here, as skepticism as a virtue here I wasn't asking for anyone to trust me, I was advising everyone to look at the charts. Some here are traders and or investors in BTC. Those are the folks that recognize when we have confirmed short squeezes and shakeouts going on, the bulls are running and the price will increase soon, this activity is visible in the charts and historically precedes a price increase and possible new all time highs. I will admit that sometimes I post some things well in advance and maybe a bit cryptic for fun to give some a brief edge. Sometimes I get bored staring at the morning stars during the early AM and I'll pop in for a few posts to help my fellow man. I don't ask anyone for trust, I remember that good skeptics do some verification after the fact. As sure as the Sun rises in the East.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

11th February 2021, 10:52 PM	#1023
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by portlandatheist That is the catch isn't it? Any fast transaction really isn't an actual bitcoin transaction and even though coinbase is able to make the transaction fast, it could never scale to what other currencies can accomplish which are doing real transactions in real time. A coinbase transaction is not the same as a bitcoin transaction, kinda like when I use my Starbucks app to buy a Starbucks coffee. This is an important point I want to make because no matter where bitcoin goes, it will always be tightly tethered to other currencies that can perform functions that it will never be able to perform. Even the biggest bitcoin fan will care, and will care deeply, what the exchange rate is between bitcoin and the US dollar. It's not like you can carry physical Bitcoin with you like you can cash. But just as you use your bank card to pay for items with the cash in your bank, you can do exactly the same with a card that is funded by Bitcoin. I don't like cash now myself (I fear Covid bugs may be crawling on it.) I prefer to use my card whenever I make a purchase. Nobody claims Bitcoin is perfect. It's just a good store of value. About the exchange rate between Bitcoin and the US dollar, yes it's important. But if you'll notice it gets cheaper to buy things with Bitcoin over time and more expensive to buy things with US dollars. Think about why that is and you're onto something.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

12th February 2021, 06:50 AM	#1024
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,469	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Saying that Coinbase sells or trades their customer's Bitcoins or invests them is the problem that doesn't exist. How do you think they can make "instant transactions"? They can do it because "your" bitcoin is just a book keeping entry to them. They are functioning like a bank does wrt demand deposits, what you really own isn't bitcoin it's an IOU from coinbase to give you bitcoin when you ask for it. As shown above, however, these deposits are not eligible for deposit insurance because bitcoin isn't legal tender. You should also consider how they get the $billions in dollar denominated assets that are serving as "insurance" for your bitcoin. They are certainly not using tens of billions of dollars of their own money.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

12th February 2021, 09:20 AM	#1025
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,156	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY By using Bitcoin as a store of value, then combining that with the convenience of a bank card, it's no issue to buy a cup of coffee instantly with that card. In the end you are using your Bitcoin to pay for the coffee exactly the same as if you were using a bank card funded by cash deposits. Except the Bitcoin funded card clears faster than the cash funded bank card. You are missing the point that once you have to rely on a 3rd party to complete a bitcoin transaction you negate one of the biggest selling points of bitcoin. Of course, if your favorite shopkeeper/publican lets you put things on the slate then they may accept zero confirmations and you would still get by without a 3rd party. I don't think that this is widespread though otherwise the transaction fees would rise dramatically since bitcoin doesn't scale.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

12th February 2021, 06:31 PM	#1026
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by psionl0 You are missing the point that once you have to rely on a 3rd party to complete a bitcoin transaction you negate one of the biggest selling points of bitcoin. Of course, if your favorite shopkeeper/publican lets you put things on the slate then they may accept zero confirmations and you would still get by without a 3rd party. I don't think that this is widespread though otherwise the transaction fees would rise dramatically since bitcoin doesn't scale. I get that. As a crypto currency there are much better options than Bitcoin as many coins have shorter block times. Bitcoin is not the fastest product on the market. Bitcoin is not the answer for every problem within our financial institutions but it does have its advantages and solves several specific problems. I've never shared the view that Bitcoin would ever replace the US dollar as a currency, only that it is good for working with the US dollar as a store of wealth. I don't believe gold will ever replace the US dollar either. I do believe it is much easier and faster to transfer large amounts of wealth by using Bitcoin rather than US dollars or gold though. My point was/is that if we use Bitcoin mainly as a store of value, the same as we do with cash in a bank, and we tap into that stored value by using it with a card for everyday transactions, as we do with cash in a bank, Bitcoin is a better option than cash in a bank. It also works much better as a store of value than things like gold. If nothing else, the value of the Bitcoin stored over time, tends to go up, in contrast the value of the US dollar tends to go down with rising inflation. I'm sure you remember when a couple of pizzas used to cost 10,000 Bitcoin. Soon that amount of Bitcoin will likely fund a pizza chain. As things increase in US dollar price over time the same things decrease in the price of Bitcoin over time. One good deposit of Bitcoin to fund an account will likely last a very long time if not indefinitely. Unless one needs a new Lamborghini more often than not of course.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

12th February 2021, 06:43 PM	#1027
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by lomiller How do you think they can make "instant transactions"? They can do it because "your" bitcoin is just a book keeping entry to them. They are functioning like a bank does wrt demand deposits, what you really own isn't bitcoin it's an IOU from coinbase to give you bitcoin when you ask for it. As shown above, however, these deposits are not eligible for deposit insurance because bitcoin isn't legal tender. You should also consider how they get the $billions in dollar denominated assets that are serving as "insurance" for your bitcoin. They are certainly not using tens of billions of dollars of their own money. Entertaining paranoid thoughts about ways of losing wealth is part of what drives me to take so many precautions. I can appreciate the sentiment. Another reason I won't go anywhere near the stock market.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

12th February 2021, 07:43 PM	#1028
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,156	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY My point was/is that if we use Bitcoin mainly as a store of value, the same as we do with cash in a bank, and we tap into that stored value by using it with a card for everyday transactions, as we do with cash in a bank, Bitcoin is a better option than cash in a bank. It also works much better as a store of value than things like gold. In this instance it is not actually. The deflationary nature of bitcoin plus the need to offer transaction fees act as a disincentive to spending bitcoin. If you want a crypto to be better than cash in a bank then it needs to have an inbuilt spending incentive. This can be achieved either by making it inflationary (the new coin generation rate increases exponentially over time) or it needs to be subject to demurrage. Either could form part of a block reward for the miners instead of transaction fees. Make such a currency readily interchangeable with bitcoin and you are a step closer to the libertarian dream. Freicoin attempted to be such a currency but it still had transaction fees and you had to go through an exchange if you wanted to exchange them for any other currency so it didn't take off.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

13th February 2021, 04:06 AM	#1029
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Apple Pay can now be used to spend Bitcoin https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pay-...spend-bitcoin/
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

13th February 2021, 04:27 AM	#1030
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by psionl0 In this instance it is not actually. The deflationary nature of bitcoin plus the need to offer transaction fees act as a disincentive to spending bitcoin. If you want a crypto to be better than cash in a bank then it needs to have an inbuilt spending incentive. This can be achieved either by making it inflationary (the new coin generation rate increases exponentially over time) or it needs to be subject to demurrage. Either could form part of a block reward for the miners instead of transaction fees. Make such a currency readily interchangeable with bitcoin and you are a step closer to the libertarian dream. Freicoin attempted to be such a currency but it still had transaction fees and you had to go through an exchange if you wanted to exchange them for any other currency so it didn't take off. I think making a cryptocurrency inflationary would be a terrible idea. The value would only decrease over time. As more coins are available, the price would only go down. I still maintain that BTC is better than cash if only for this reason: I just checked my bank account a short while ago, the amount is exactly the same as it was yesterday. I also just checked my trading portfolio during this post. (I dusted off my trading coins recently). As I was looking at the $ amount, not only is there more $ value in there now but it's increasing in $ value a bit more at the moment. To me, that's why BTC is better than cash. I'll admit BTC is not the Libertarian dream. Monero would be much closer IMO but this is the BTC thread so there ends that.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

13th February 2021, 06:34 PM	#1031
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,156	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I think making a cryptocurrency inflationary would be a terrible idea. The value would only decrease over time. As more coins are available, the price would only go down. That's the whole idea. The proceeds of inflation or demurrage would replace transaction fees. Neither is a problem if you are doing frequent transactions. Bitcoin is designed to be hoarded. You can't make the illogical leap that it is also designed to do transactions.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

13th February 2021, 11:05 PM	#1032
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	$49,476 a few minutes ago...
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

17th February 2021, 01:58 AM	#1033
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,483	Winkelvoss bros get last laugh. Worth 10 billion each. Zuckerburg has given away 99% of his money. The bros will make no such strategic error in their path to world domination.
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,483

17th February 2021, 04:39 AM	#1034
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	$51,612 It looks like the 50K barrier is in the rear view.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

17th February 2021, 08:22 PM	#1035
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,785	Originally Posted by Samson Winkelvoss bros get last laugh. Worth 10 billion each. Zuckerburg has given away 99% of his money. The bros will make no such strategic error in their path to world domination. I know these names, I know what happened with the beginning of FB. But WTF is this? I don't even get the joke. Sorry. I hear bitcoin went above 50 grand today (or yesterday or whenever). I wonder how much my brother invested? He said he was doing quite well when it was at 47K. I wonder if he should pull some of the profit out and diversify? (He does have other stock investments.) Probably hard to do that when it's going up so fast. I'll be leaving my $100 in. That was the point, I could afford to lose it.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 17th February 2021 at 08:24 PM.