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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 15th May 2020, 03:29 PM   #3401
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At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.There is much more than what I've quoted below.

Quote:
‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances
A number of those who crossed paths with Biden’s accuser say they remember two things: She spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.
Quote:
Reade had spoken highly of Biden, the former boss who employed her as a staff assistant from late 1992 to August 1993, and never mentioned assault or harassment, Wrye recalls. But what Wrye remembers most is that by the time Reade left their property and moved on, Wrye felt burned.
After her husband suffered a brain injury that forced the couple to sell the property, Wrye said, Reade turned on them.
“She became really difficult,” Wrye said. “She said, ‘You’re going to have to pay me to get me to leave.’”
“She was manipulative,” said Wrye, a self-described feminist and social activist. “She was always saying she was going to get it together, but she couldn’t. And ‘could you help her’?”

Wrye’s distressing experience with Reade wasn’t an isolated case. Over the past decade, Reade has left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances in California’s Central Coast region who say they remember two things about her — she spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.
Quote:
A number of those in close contact with Reade over the past 12 years, a period in which she went by the names Tara Reade, Tara McCabe or Alexandra McCabe, laid out a familiar pattern: Reade ingratiated herself, explained she was down on her luck and needed help, and eventually took advantage of their goodwill to extract money, skip rent payments or walk out on other bills.
Quote:
But many of those who knew her well in recent years said she frequently lied or sought to manipulate them, in many instances taking advantage of their desire to help a person they felt was down on her luck.
“You can use these words: manipulative, deceitful, user,” said Kelly Klett,
an attorney who rented Reade a room in her home in 2018. “Looking back at it all now, that is exactly how I view her and how I feel about her.”
Quote:
Like Wrye, Austin Chung, a Monterey-area real estate investor who rented Reade a house from 2008-10, learned of Reade’s charges against Biden from television.
“Look,” he told his wife when he first saw Reade on the screen, “she has gone big time. She’s going after the big fish now.”
Chung said Reade, who went by Alexandra McCabe at the time, claimed that she was on the run from domestic violence and trying to start over.
(Remember that Reade's husband had divorced her in 1996, twelve years earlier.)

Quote:
But then the payments came in late, month after month. Her explanations always sounded sincere and convincing, Chung said, so he reduced her rent and tried to come up with a compromise. Eventually, however, he had to evict Reade.
Quote:
When he confronted her, Chung said, “She knew exactly what she had done to me and there was no remorse. I knew there was never a chance I’d get my money back.”
Quote:
Klett said she’s now struck by Reade’s allegations about Biden. Over months of talks about the law and women’s advocacy, Klett said Reade’s take on Biden never wavered. “In the time that she lived with me in close proximity,” she said, “there was never one allegation against Joe Biden that was disparaging.”
Quote:
Five of her acquaintances have specific recollections where Reade spoke in positive terms about Biden, as recently as 2018, one year before she lodged an initial charge against Biden that he had sexually harassed her. (In 2020, Reade offered new details, claiming that Biden sexually assaulted her in a Senate hallway.)
According to their accounts, Reade proactively brought up the former vice president’s name, pointing to her time in his Senate office as a high point in her career. Those interviewed said they were under the impression that Reade spent years in his office or had played a role in helping write landmark legislation, though she actually served in a junior level position for less than a year.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th May 2020 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 03:49 PM   #3402
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden. There is much more than what I've quoted below.
I think your link might be broken there. Here's another:

‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:16 PM   #3403
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I think your link might be broken there. Here's another:

‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances
Thanks. Blocked for some reason. Fixed now.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th May 2020 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:26 PM   #3404
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.There is much more than what I've quoted below.[/b]
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

Last edited by theprestige; 15th May 2020 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:31 PM   #3405
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Counterpoint: Nowadays any even slightly-popular politician can be confident that there's a social media brigade ready and waiting to do all the dirty work he could possibly hope for. It costs Biden nothing to take the high road, when there's a whole Twitter army enthusiastically taking the low road on his behalf. He has the luxury of being able to easily crowdsource the kind of smear campaign that Nixon would have had to assign to the FBI.


The fact that he used the same crappy deflection tactic in all three examples suggests that he's got the same crappy position in all three cases.
Some politicians even favor taking the low road with their keyboard warriors.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Where is the 302? It is missing. Was it stolen or destroyed? General Flynn is being persecuted! #OBAMAGATE

Thank you to all of my great Keyboard Warriors. You are better, and far more brilliant, than anyone on Madison Avenue (Ad Agencies). There is nobody like you!
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:34 PM   #3406
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?
Look, just because someone has a long history of falsely claiming to be a victim in order to get attention, sympathy, money, lodgings, or other goods, what could that possibly have to do with this instance of her claiming to be a victim?

Why do you assume all those people accusing Reade of lies and manipulation in that article are "the left"? I wasn't aware they gave any political affiliation. Or is the claim that Politico is left wing?
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:50 PM   #3407
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Some politicians even favor taking the low road with their keyboard warriors.
Rent free.

Last edited by theprestige; 15th May 2020 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 04:52 PM   #3408
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Look, just because someone has a long history of falsely claiming to be a victim in order to get attention, sympathy, money, lodgings, or other goods, what could that possibly have to do with this instance of her claiming to be a victim?
Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:04 PM   #3409
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?
I don't speak for "the left" but that is precisely one of the big reasons why I'm skeptical. I would have preferred Buttigieg, or Klobuchar or Bullock or someone else though, not Bernie or Warren. Any of the more mainstream moderate candidates pretty much. I always thought Biden had too much baggage, and he won mainly due to name recognition and his association with Obama.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:09 PM   #3410
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.
How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:18 PM   #3411
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.
What are you talking about? You don't think these people from the past undermine her credibility? People are independently describing her as manipulative and deceitful.

This is precisely the kind of report that should resonate with right-wingers: "A past her prime woman manufacturing drama because her life has slipped into irrelevance." The difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would call her an ugly loser.

Quote:
Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?
Now this is an ad hominem. The stakes have been raised, so, yes, we can expect more intense hatred from loyal Democrats, but that has little to do with this report unless you're suggesting tribal politics has affected these witness accounts.

Reade's credibility got a boost from the Larry King confirmation, and she probably did feel Biden behaved inappropriately at one point, but her story has fallen apart. What's just gobsmacking is that I barely know the names of any of Trump's over two dozen accusers. We also know Trump has bragged about kissing and grabbing women without permission.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:26 PM   #3412
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.h Tere is much more than what I've quoted below.
Credibility is relevant. It just isn't a brick wall.

So sure, she has some problems in her past that suggest someone for whom being manipulative is a survival skill.

On the other Biden is also a known manipulative liar given his fantasies about South Africa and his stories about Corn Pop and The Razor of Wisdom or whatever. He lied about a speech being original and that doomed him as a serious player until the Democrats pulled him from the discard pile to balance an Obama ticket. He has a history of touching women inappropriately.

So sure, he has some problems in his past and is willing to be manipulative in pursuit of political power.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:29 PM   #3413
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.

“A decades long career . . .” Those are your words, not anything you “just read,” here. You have put that particular spin on the allegations against her.

You haven’t questioned them. Never once doubted them. Haven’t shown any kind of, “hey, maybe it’s not such a good idea to trash a woman who accuses a powerful man of sexual assault?”

So no, you aren’t the one digging the stuff up; you are just one of the ones calling it gold when it’s nothing but trash.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:30 PM   #3414
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?
You put a lot of unnecessary effort into defending the falsehood that credibility is unimportant.
How is interviewing people who have a personal knowledge of Reade and give example after example of how she lied, manipulated them, repeatedly failed to pay her rent, repeatedly borrowed money she failed to pay back, lied about escaping from her abusive husband to get sympathy and money, and spent years praising Biden an "ad hom"?

The "left" doesn't hate Reade. And you know that. But it's a catchy piece of rhetoric you like to employ because you think it works. It doesn't.

What Reade's motivation is only she knows. But I think one of her victims in the article might have hit the nail on the head:

Quote:
“Look,” he told his wife when he first saw Reade on the screen, “she has gone big time. She’s going after the big fish now.”
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:34 PM   #3415
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.
And you just want to believe Reade so exposing her long history of manipulation, attention seeking, dishonesty, and theft doesn't work for you. Somehow, I have the distinct feeling that if Blasey-Ford's past included such a history you wouldn't be hand waving it away so casually. But you'd never admit that.
fr
ETA: If you exchanged Reade for Blasey-Ford and Biden for Kavenaugh, I wouldn't have believed a word out of B-Ford's mouth.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th May 2020 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:41 PM   #3416
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
“A decades long career . . .” Those are your words, not anything you “just read,” here. You have put that particular spin on the allegations against her.
Oh my goodness, I read an article that described these actions happening over and over again for more than two decades and I described it as decades long! Oh, heavens to betsy the effort!

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You haven’t questioned them. Never once doubted them. Haven’t shown any kind of, “hey, maybe it’s not such a good idea to trash a woman who accuses a powerful man of sexual assault?”

So no, you aren’t the one digging the stuff up; you are just one of the ones calling it gold when it’s nothing but trash.
If you spent the same energy questioning Reade's motives as you want everyone else to spend on everyone else from Reade's past who describes those motives in less than glowing terms, I wonder where we'd be.

Why should I be questioning the multiple independent witnesses testifying in the multiple stories written in multiple researched articles, rather than the latest version of Reade's story?

Last edited by wareyin; 15th May 2020 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:43 PM   #3417
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You put a lot of unnecessary effort into defending the falsehood that credibility is unimportant.
I feel like I put in the appropriate amount of effort into debating questions of critical thinking on a forum dedicated to the same.

I'm not sure Politico is or should be dedicated to partisan character assassination. But, if that is actually their charter, then I withdraw the accusation.

Quote:
How is interviewing people who have a personal knowledge of Reade and give example after example of how she lied, manipulated them, repeatedly failed to pay her rent, repeatedly borrowed money she failed to pay back, lied about escaping from her abusive husband to get sympathy and money, and spent years praising Biden an "ad hom"?
It's an attempt to refute her claim by attacking her personal history, rather than by attacking her claim as such. It's literally an ad hom.

Do you believe that attacking her claim directly is insufficient to refute it?

Last edited by theprestige; 15th May 2020 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:48 PM   #3418
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's an attempt to refute her claim by attacking her personal history, rather than by attacking her claim as such. It's literally an ad hom.
You shouldn't believe this person because they lie all the time is not an ad hom.

I'm curious, here's a hypothetical. Your brother in law borrows your tools all the time and never returns them or breaks them. At some point, do you think it's not a good idea to lend him another tool, or do you just plow in with this 'just because a person has a long history of doing this same bad action is no reason to think it could be happening again' and hand him your brand new table saw?
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:50 PM   #3419
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.
Exactly. All these people are not just making this up out of thin air. Reade's reputation is all due to her own actions. No one else's.
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:52 PM   #3420
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And you just want to believe Reade so exposing her long history of manipulation, attention seeking, dishonesty, and theft doesn't work for you. Somehow, I have the distinct feeling that if Blasey-Ford's past included such a history you wouldn't be hand waving it away so casually. But you'd never admit that.
Regardless of what I want, I don't think Reade's claim has enough support to be accepted as true. I actually get to the same place you do, in spite of my biases, and without having to go all in on assassinating her character.

Why is it so important to you to do that?
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:55 PM   #3421
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Oh my goodness, I read an article that described these actions happening over and over again for more than two decades and I described it as decades long! Oh, heavens to betsy the effort!
I didn’t say it was a huge effort. In fact, I’d say it took little effort at all. It’s easy to believe the worst about people and say they aren’t credible. Especially women who accuse powerful men with lots of support.

Quote:
If you spent the same energy questioning Reade's motives as you want everyone else to spend on everyone else from Reade's past who describes those motives in less than glowing terms, I wonder where we'd be.
Thats a gross mischaracterization of my position. I don’t want anyone to spend any energy on digging up dirt from an accuser’s past. I want people to focus on evidence.

Quote:
Why should I be questioning the multiple independent witnesses testifying in the multiple stories written in multiple researched articles, rather than the latest version of Reade's story?
Because apparently assessing credibility is so very important when assessing someone’s claims
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Old 15th May 2020, 05:55 PM   #3422
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Regardless of what I want, I don't think Reade's claim has enough support to be accepted as true. I actually get to the same place you do, in spite of my biases, and without having to go all in on assassinating her character.

Why is it so important to you to do that?
Now that's an ad hom!

You can't refute what Stacy posted, so you impugn her motives for posting it.
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:01 PM   #3423
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I didn’t say it was a huge effort. In fact, I’d say it took little effort at all.
Indeed, seeing that something that spans over 20 years is decades long takes little effort. But somehow it bothers you that I can count?

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Because apparently assessing credibility is so very important when assessing someone’s claims
Yes, it is. And despite your objections here, I am absolutely certain you apply that routinely in your own life. The child who tells you they didn't eat the cookie, the guy at the bar that tells you he forgot his wallet so can you spot him a beer, the relative who never pays anyone back asking you for a loan, etc.
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:05 PM   #3424
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I feel like I put in the appropriate amount of effort into debating questions of critical thinking on a forum dedicated to the same.
What you "feel" and what you consider "appropriate" for yourself is your opinion. You're entitled to it. But you are not entitled to tell me that my effort is "unnecessary".
Quote:
I'm not sure Politico is or should be dedicated to partisan character assassination. But, if that is actually their charter, then I withdraw the accusation.
Nice try.

Quote:
Politico's media bias, given by the AllSides Bias Rating™, is center. Politico says that they “strike a perfect balance” in regards to demographics.
Your accusation withdrawal is coming forthwith?

Quote:
It's an attempt to refute her claim by attacking her personal history, rather than by attacking her claim as such. It's literally an ad hom.
"Attacking" and "character assassination" are your words. I don't consider reporting what they were told by people who personally knew Reade and who related how she treated them is either. It's called reporting. If you bothered to read the article, which somehow I doubt you did, you'd have seen the article also reported on other friends/acquaintances who said positive things about Reade. Is that character assassination, too?

Quote:
Do you believe that attacking her claim directly is insufficient to refute it?
It can neither be refuted nor proved. Which is exactly why her credibility is important.

Who are you going to believe? Trump or Jean Carroll? Whose story is more credible? Whose word is more credible?
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:09 PM   #3425
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
You shouldn't believe this person because they lie all the time is not an ad hom.

I'm curious, here's a hypothetical. Your brother in law borrows your tools all the time and never returns them or breaks them. At some point, do you think it's not a good idea to lend him another tool, or do you just plow in with this 'just because a person has a long history of doing this same bad action is no reason to think it could be happening again' and hand him your brand new table saw?


Do you want your daughter marrying a guy whose past includes decades of theft, fiscal irresponsibility, fraud, manipulation and dishonesty. Why not? That doesn't mean he going to be a thief, be fiscally irresponsible, commit fraud, manipulate her and continue to be dishonest after they get married. Right?
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:37 PM   #3426
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PBS has an extensive report on the Reade accusation and they presented a lot of evidence it didn't happen.

Full episode, The piece on Biden starts at 23:30

If you care at all why we shouldn't believe Reade, watch the segment. They talk to a person that interviewed dozens of people who were there at the time. They show the hallway it supposedly happened in and it was essentially a very public place with people always coming and going, not some quiet hallway.

A person who worked with Reade reported her to their supervisor because she was doing a poor job. It was around the time Reade left.

A lot of Senators did things that would be considered sexual abuse today, Biden was never one of them according to multiple staff that worked there at the time. Biden would not have had someone serve drinks at a fundraiser because they had nice legs as Reade claimed. Biden mostly had men do such things specifically so he didn't look like he was demeaning women.
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:45 PM   #3427
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
.....
If you care at all why we shouldn't believe Reade, watch the segment. They talk to a person that interviewed dozens of people who were there at the time. They show the hallway it supposedly happened in and it was essentially a very public place with people always coming and going, not some quiet hallway.
....
As far as I recall, Reade has claimed she can't remember where this purportedly happened, which of course prevents anybody from checking the place out. Does someone in the office remember sending her there? Or say "This is where Joe always picked up his bag."
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Old 15th May 2020, 06:49 PM   #3428
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Exactly. All these people are not just making this up out of thin air. Reade's reputation is all due to her own actions. No one else's.

Her reputation is also completely separate from whether or not Biden actually assaulted her.

Women who lie get raped. Women who manipulate people get raped. Women who steal money get raped.

Should we start questioning the credibility of women because we know they have done these things? I guess we could; you’ve straight out said we should.

All of this mudslinging? It just makes it more difficult for women to do what takes a lot of courage to do in the first place. We want them to speak up; but, we will tear them down if they dare accuse the wrong person. The media, the Twittersphere, internet denizens in general...they can all find dirt on just about anyone. There are untold numbers of people who will say that “that woman wronged me in a way I can’t really prove, just insinuate.” For a woman who has, in fact, been raped but also made some mistakes in her life, it’s so easy to taint her credibility, call her a liar and perpetuate the harm already caused by her rapist. Why should any woman take that risk in this world where women are already at a disadvantage?

You know what’s worse? Failing to consider that what happened to a woman decades ago may have affected the course of her life. That judging her based on her actions later on is incredibly unfair.

John Lennon wrote a song called, “Woman is the ****** of the World.” It took me a long time to realize that in many ways he was right. It took, if I’m being honest, listening to the women close to me recount their surprising and shocking experiences. It made me angry. I wanted them to speak out. But why should they? There’s little chance of justice and a big chance that no one will believe them or do anything about it.
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Old 15th May 2020, 07:05 PM   #3429
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Indeed, seeing that something that spans over 20 years is decades long takes little effort. But somehow it bothers you that I can count?



Yes, it is. And despite your objections here, I am absolutely certain you apply that routinely in your own life. The child who tells you they didn't eat the cookie, the guy at the bar that tells you he forgot his wallet so can you spot him a beer, the relative who never pays anyone back asking you for a loan, etc.

No, I don’t assess credibility in my own life very often at all. Evidence is king. I give the benefit of the doubt unless I have evidence otherwise. My kid? Had to be him because we are the only ones around. The guy at the bar? Sure, I’ll buy you a beer (who cares if he’s credible?). Can’t pay me back, o brother? Consider it a Christmas gift; love you! Etc.

One thing for sure, if a woman I know tells me about the time she was raped, I definitely don’t go looking for reasons to discredit her.
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Old 15th May 2020, 07:14 PM   #3430
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?
Centrists
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Old 15th May 2020, 07:18 PM   #3431
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
PBS has an extensive report on the Reade accusation and they presented a lot of evidence it didn't happen.

Full episode, The piece on Biden starts at 23:30

If you care at all why we shouldn't believe Reade, watch the segment. They talk to a person that interviewed dozens of people who were there at the time. They show the hallway it supposedly happened in and it was essentially a very public place with people always coming and going, not some quiet hallway.

A person who worked with Reade reported her to their supervisor because she was doing a poor job. It was around the time Reade left.

A lot of Senators did things that would be considered sexual abuse today, Biden was never one of them according to multiple staff that worked there at the time. Biden would not have had someone serve drinks at a fundraiser because they had nice legs as Reade claimed. Biden mostly had men do such things specifically so he didn't look like he was demeaning women.
Link is not working.
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Old 15th May 2020, 07:55 PM   #3432
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
As far as I recall, Reade has claimed she can't remember where this purportedly happened, which of course prevents anybody from checking the place out. Does someone in the office remember sending her there? Or say "This is where Joe always picked up his bag."
If she went to get a gym bag for Biden as she claims, the hallway in question is between Biden's office and the gym.

These excuses just get tedious.
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Old 15th May 2020, 07:58 PM   #3433
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Link is not working.
Thanks, I'll fix it.

May 15, 2020 - PBS NewsHour full episode

https://www.pbs.org/show/newshour/

Fixed.

https://www.pbs.org/video/may-15-202...pisode-vmlsm9/

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 15th May 2020 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:01 PM   #3434
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks, I'll fix it.

https://www.pbs.org/video/may-15-202...de-1589515201/

It would appear the problem is at the website. Go to the PBS site and click on:

May 15, 2020 - PBS NewsHour full episode

https://www.pbs.org/show/newshour/

I'll keep checking back to see if the link gets fixed.

https://www.pbs.org/video/may-15-202...pisode-vmlsm9/
I'll take a look later when I have more time. But I'm sure it's just another PBS NewsHour hit piece/character assassination. PBS is well know for that.
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:22 PM   #3435
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks, I'll fix it.

May 15, 2020 - PBS NewsHour full episode

https://www.pbs.org/show/newshour/

Fixed.

https://www.pbs.org/video/may-15-202...pisode-vmlsm9/

There's also a link to a summary.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...es-allegations
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:30 PM   #3436
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Her reputation is also completely separate from whether or not Biden actually assaulted her.

Women who lie get raped. Women who manipulate people get raped. Women who steal money get raped.

Should we start questioning the credibility of women because we know they have done these things? I guess we could; you’ve straight out said we should.
.....
By your standard, if there is no supporting evidence -- and what would you need? witnesses? video? -- then the woman's complaint would have to be rejected out of hand. Alternatively, you could look at whether she has a history of telling the truth -- or not -- about important matters. One thing we know about people is that they generally do what has worked for them in the past. If someone has an extensive, proven pattern of lying and fraud, that makes it harder to take her word alone about an explosive allegation for which there is no evidence.

Last edited by Bob001; 15th May 2020 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 15th May 2020, 08:45 PM   #3437
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There's also a link to a summary.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...es-allegations
Thanks.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:02 PM   #3438
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
No, I don’t assess credibility in my own life very often at all. Evidence is king. I give the benefit of the doubt unless I have evidence otherwise.
Does not compute. If evidence is king, why 'give the benefit of the doubt' to accusations which have scant evidence for them?
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:05 PM   #3439
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Does not compute. If evidence is king, why 'give the benefit of the doubt' to accusations which have scant evidence for them?
And lots of evidence against.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:06 PM   #3440
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
By your standard, if there is no supporting evidence -- and what would you need? witnesses? video? -- then the woman's complaint would have to be rejected out of hand. Alternatively, you could look at whether she has a history of telling the truth -- or not -- about important matters. One thing we know about people is that they generally do what has worked for them in the past. If someone has an extensive, proven pattern of lying and fraud, that makes it harder to take her word alone about an explosive allegation for which there is no evidence.
I notice XJ is laser focused on this one person's claim and ignores the 2 dozen women who accuse Trump of sexual assault. Now I am not aguing Trump did those things but here we are considering Trump or Biden and XJ has hand waved Trump's issues and can only talk about a claim against Biden that cannot be confirmed in the slightest way.

Makes you go hmmmmm.
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