2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc

[Bubba]

Good example of I got nuthin but this slimy cheap shot


You can do better:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

As opposed to Bubba, who just made it clear he trusts some random guy on Facebook.

Is there a grade lower than F?

Dave

Well, one would hope you can do better.

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

I get my US news from a range of centre right to centre left news sources, relying mainly, but not exclusively on this chart

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tyd92zfqp...hart.jpg?raw=1

The Green box: Absolutely reliable, non-partisan or mostly non-partisan news sources. If you read it here, you can pretty much count on it being fact checked and verified by multiple sources. These sources are the first place I check when I see major claims that don't look true - if it ain't here, it didn't happen! If it is here but they say it didn't happen, then it didn't happen!

The Yellow box: Still good, mostly reliable news. Good fact checking but you need to be aware that opinion will be partisan.

The Orange Box: Getting very partisan here. Average fact checking at best, and a tendency to report from single or non-reliable sources. If you read it here, you probably need to verify with a news source in the green or yellow boxes.

The Red Box: Whackadoodle country. Actual fake news, zero fact checking, made up stories, sensationalist BS and outright lies. No retractions when called on their falsehoods. Spending too much time reading crap from these sources will likely give you brain damage... its no surprise to find Faux News on the Orange/Red border

I rarely venture outside the green and yellow boxes and usually only to see what the crazies have been up to. Also I do not agree with the position they have placed CNN - their news analysis is better than what they have been rated here - IMO, the belong up with WAPO (blue arrow).

I regularly watch or read from two polar opposite sources here;

On the right: Nick Gillespie from reason.com on account of his excellent and incisive interviews, with often no so famous, but nonetheless very interesting people.

On the left: Rachel Maddow from msnbc.com on account of her ability to explain complex and difficult to understand political matters. She really is the Master Explainer.

That graphic totally looks like someone's humping the Enquirer!

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I don't trust the NVM myself.

Aren't they like a Chinese GRU?

[Bubba]

Bezmenov observed how eventually people simply will not believe their eyes, no matter what, even when photographic evidence is put under their nose.

Despite seeing all the media execs faces and names, and their connections to owners' kingmaking architectures Trilateral, Bilderberg, and CFR...

...and despite seeing

In a column entitled “Ruling Class Journalists”, former Washington Post senior editor and ombudsman Richard Harwood described the Council and its members approvingly as “the nearest thing we have to a ruling establishment in the United States”.

Harwood continued: “The membership of these journalists in the Council, however they may think of themselves, is an acknowledgment of their active and important role in public affairs and of their ascension into the American ruling class. They do not merely analyze and interpret foreign policy for the United States; they help make it. () They are part of that establishment whether they like it or not, sharing most of its values and world views.”

Media researcher Noam Chomsky explained this aspect as follows: “The point is that they wouldn’t be there unless they had already demonstrated that nobody has to tell them what to write because they are going to say the right thing anyway. () They have been through the socialization system.”

Alas and alack....despite what Harwood and Chomsky observed, Craig4 "trusts the process"

Quote:

by Craig4 View Post
I don't trust the news media. I trust the process. I have faith that when an outlet gets it wrong, the rest will pounce and gleefully point out their error. The discussions among the different outlets after FOX and AP called Arizona early should be instructive here. The competition injects a good deal of peer review into the news cycle.

Parroting that:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

Exactly.

...and lastly, we have a heartfelt confession

Originally Posted by eerok

Yes. It's obvious that what Bubba calls "MSM" is simply evidence-based reporting. Also obviously, if his preferred news sources actually got things right and used a decent evidentiary approach, we'd have no problem with them. This is what polarization does to one's thinking -- it makes it impossible to see what's going on.

Trusting news sources means trusting that there's a process and there's accountability. For myself, I wouldn't say that I trust any news source in the sense of blind trust -- I provisionally accept what's reported by the sources that have proved themselves to be responsible and thereby reliable.

Bubba finds it easier to use a three-letter label to dismiss all common sense.

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Bezmenov observed how eventually people simply will not believe their eyes, no matter what, even when photographic evidence is put under their nose.

Despite seeing all the media execs faces and names, and their connections to owners' kingmaking architectures Trilateral, Bilderberg, and CFR...

...and despite seeing

In a column entitled “Ruling Class Journalists”, former Washington Post senior editor and ombudsman Richard Harwood described the Council and its members approvingly as “the nearest thing we have to a ruling establishment in the United States”.

Harwood continued: “The membership of these journalists in the Council, however they may think of themselves, is an acknowledgment of their active and important role in public affairs and of their ascension into the American ruling class. They do not merely analyze and interpret foreign policy for the United States; they help make it. () They are part of that establishment whether they like it or not, sharing most of its values and world views.”

Media researcher Noam Chomsky explained this aspect as follows: “The point is that they wouldn’t be there unless they had already demonstrated that nobody has to tell them what to write because they are going to say the right thing anyway. () They have been through the socialization system.”

Alas and alack....despite what Harwood and Chomsky observed, Craig4 "trusts the process"





Parroting that:




...and lastly, we have a heartfelt confession

You DO realize that you're describing yourself. Biden is up by

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Almost every time I check Biden's lead grows. About 1700 votes larger

President Elect Joe Biden: 78,768,891

Donald Trump. 73,160,506

Margin for America: 5,608,385

And he still has 306 Electoral votes, Bubba.

[Bubba]

What explains the MSM talkers all saying the exact same words, telling viewers how scary dangerous it is to listen to their competition, online??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnayNPUTnI

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

You DO realize that you're describing yourself. Biden is up by





And he still has 306 Electoral votes, Bubba.

Get back to us when it is actually finished and settled.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Resume

I understand that the Trump administration is grifting from all these fraudulent voter fraud suits, but one has to wonder how much of this is humiliation-inspired. Trump can't stand it, from Obama owning him at the correspondent's dinner, to this election defeat at the hands of someone he clearly thinks inferior, he just can't stand it. He is so thin-skinned I think he sprays himself orange to add another layer or three.

Back during an episode of B.S Penn & Teller addressed the question of why people come on the show when it's obvious how they are going to be represented.

(Language mildly cleaned up to conform to the MA)

Quote:

We do not lie to them; we make sure they know all about the show. We give them copies of past shows, and it's always pretty clear which side of the issue we're gonna be on. The long answer is that people who come on this show generally consider themselves to be bulletproof. Most have never talked to anyone with a dissenting view, and certainly no one with a real research team, like ours. If you say something on our show, we check it. If you lie or make something up, we know. But we're fair — we never take people out of context. We're biased as all (hell), but we try to be honest.

And I think that is largely true here as well. Trump's never dealt with consequences or being forced into a place where he's wrong/lost and can't just redefine reality around himself to maintain the illusion that's not true.

He has zero coping skills because he's such a sheltered idiot.

It's not that he doesn't know how to concede (with dignity or without) it's that he literally has no mental framework to even convince of the concept applying to him.

We're basically pulling Trump out of Plato's Cave at this point.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Craig4

I don't trust the news media. I trust the process. I have faith that when an outlet gets it wrong, the rest will pounce and gleefully point out their error. The discussions among the different outlets after FOX and AP called Arizona early should be instructive here. The competition injects a good deal of peer review into the news cycle.

Yep, this!

Another great indication of the process is when a news source actually calls themselves out when they get things wrong, by printing or broadcasting a retraction. This never happens, for example, at Faux News. When they get called on a factual error, for example, that the illegal immigrants were bringing smallpox to America. Well, there hasn't been a case of smallpox in the wild since 1977 in Somalia, and when Faux News were called on that BS, they simply ignored it and moved along to the next shiny object.

Basically, as a group, mainstream media are self correcting - the exact opposite of this is true with extreme partisan media; they pick up on false stories from each other and amplify them.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Back during an episode of B.S Penn & Teller addressed the question of why people come on the show when it's obvious how they are going to be represented.

(Language mildly cleaned up to conform to the MA)



And I think that is largely true here as well. Trump's never dealt with consequences or being forced into a place where he's wrong/lost and can't just redefine reality around himself to maintain the illusion that's not true.

He has zero coping skills because he's such a sheltered idiot.

It's not that he doesn't know how to concede (with dignity or without) it's that he literally has no mental framework to even convince of the concept applying to him.

We're basically pulling Trump out of Plato's Cave at this point.

In his mind, and those of his idiot conspiracist supporters, there is no reason to concede because he actually won. Now his maga-chuds actually truly believe he won, but Trump is running a con, as usual, and may only believe he won in the same way he believes he is responsible for the COVID vaccines, though none of the deaths. He grifts himself so it seems, and it works for him, right until it doesn't. There are lawsuits and more waiting for him after he's out on his keister Jan 20th, but he's not worried; he thinks he's bulletproof because reality has never really intruded on his privileged, lazy life.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Bubba

You can do better:

True, but given the quality of opposition it's really not necessary.

Dave

[beachnut]

How does an idiot get thousands of idiots to march and chant "trump won" when he lost.

It is sad to see so many people fooled by lies, and conspiracy theories, as the president retweets BS from Breitbart news and other delusional sources.

What percent of the 70 million trump supporters believe the lies and conspiracy theories... I expected better from fellow Americans. When pointing out lies and stupid claims from the president, I am called a hater.

Need help in presenting the facts, avoid being messenger shot with projection.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

True, but given the quality of opposition it's really not necessary.

Dave

BOOM! Right there!!

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by beachnut

How does an idiot get thousands of idiots to march and chant "trump won" when he lost.

Look back at these last four years Beachnut. Trump and his enablers have been conditioning his followers for this. He has been progressively more and more outrageous in the things he has done, the laws he has broken with impunity, his complete and utter disregard for the Constitution and his total contempt for governmental norms. People like you and I are repelled by his actions, but his supporters, including many who carry his water on this forum, love him for it.

Some people believe what they want to believe, and reality simply isn't something that they care about or acknowledge. Trump supporters have been conditioned to believe that he is The Chosen One, He Who Must Be Obeyed!

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Bezmenov observed how eventually people simply will not believe their eyes,

Yuri Bezmenov was an informant to the KGB where he worked as a journalist in India. He was paid to write propaganda lies by the KGB.

I have no idea why you keep bringing this bloke up as he died in the early 1990's and you can't quote one thing he said..

Extreme Right wing groups talk about Bezmenov because he said the USA would be destroyed by communism.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Bubba

What explains the MSM talkers all saying the exact same words,

Because Biden got the same number of votes, regardless of what news service reports it.

.....and somehow that confuses you?

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Back during an episode of B.S Penn & Teller addressed the question of why people come on the show when it's obvious how they are going to be represented.

(Language mildly cleaned up to conform to the MA)



And I think that is largely true here as well. Trump's never dealt with consequences or being forced into a place where he's wrong/lost and can't just redefine reality around himself to maintain the illusion that's not true.

He has zero coping skills because he's such a sheltered idiot.

It's not that he doesn't know how to concede (with dignity or without) it's that he literally has no mental framework to even convince of the concept applying to him.

We're basically pulling Trump out of Plato's Cave at this point.

I think that "no mental framework" thing applies as well to his really hardcore followers. Back when the NFL players kneeling was a big controversy, I asked some friends of mine, who opposed the idea of allowing the players to kneel, because they shouldn't be taking a political position at work, what the neutral position would be then. If the kneelers couldn't kneel because it was taking a position, how was standing not also taking a position? And, telling the kneelers they must stand was compelling them to take a position. Their argument was only valid on the presumption that standing was a neutral default; since it wasn't neutral, it shouldn't be the default.

And I think something very similar is going on here. To a lot of the right, their political position is something they consider so much a default that they just cannot comprehend how any patriotic American could differ with them; in the same way that a hard-core fundie of any religious stripe cannot grasp how an atheist might simply not believe in any god at all, it's just outside the range of the fundie-righty's thought-processing ability to consider that anyone might not agree that Donald Trump is (was) the bestest Prez ever. And it really blows their mind when they're told that going on 80 million Americans disagree.

Therefore, the only possible explanation is conspiracy- they couldn't have lost, they must have been cheated; and, as with most CTs, the details don't really matter- they're not after any granular expositions that could hold up in court, they only want the over-arching belief that they can hold on to and hug as a grievance for the next few years.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by turingtest

I think that "no mental framework" thing applies as well to his really hardcore followers. Back when the NFL players kneeling was a big controversy, I asked some friends of mine, who opposed the idea of allowing the players to kneel, because they shouldn't be taking a political position at work, what the neutral position would be then. If the kneelers couldn't kneel because it was taking a position, how was standing not also taking a position? And, telling the kneelers they must stand was compelling them to take a position. Their argument was only valid on the presumption that standing was a neutral default; since it wasn't neutral, it shouldn't be the default.

And I think something very similar is going on here. To a lot of the right, their political position is something they consider so much a default that they just cannot comprehend how any patriotic American could differ with them; in the same way that a hard-core fundie of any religious stripe cannot grasp how an atheist might simply not believe in any god at all, it's just outside the range of the fundie-righty's thought-processing ability to consider that anyone might not agree that Donald Trump is (was) the bestest Prez ever. And it really blows their mind when they're told that going on 80 million Americans disagree.

Therefore, the only possible explanation is conspiracy- they couldn't have lost, they must have been cheated; and, as with most CTs, the details don't really matter- they're not after any granular expositions that could hold up in court, they only want the over-arching belief that they can hold on to and hug as a grievance for the next few years.

This analysis is right on the money.

When you have been relentlessly brainwashed into believing that you are on the "correct" side, no amount of evidence will convince you that you are wrong, and you simply do not have the mental capacity to see beyond the blinkers imposed on you by that conditioning. You can apply that to anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, moon landing deniers, and JFK/RFK conspiracy theorists among others.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Bezmenov observed how.......

Yuri Bezmenov clearly stated that feminists "should be shot" and are "useful idiots" and he was instructed to say this because Yuri Andropov (Chairman of the KGB) didn't want an alternative socialist movement in India to the Russian sponsored communist party in the late 70's and early 80s. (I lived in the Russian and International diplomat compound in Kerala, India in the mid 1970s)

Do you Bubba, agree with Bezmenov that feminists should be shot?


Feminists Are Useful Idiots and Doomed / Yuri Bezmenov / 1984 India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqH...ture=emb_title

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Biden admits it.

"'We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.' --Joe Biden

Bubba. You are lying again.



Fact check: Clip of Biden taken out of context to portray him as plotting a voter fraud scheme
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN27E2VH

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard

Bubba. You are lying again.



Fact check: Clip of Biden taken out of context to portray him as plotting a voter fraud scheme
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN27E2VH

Yep, that is just rank dishonesty, both on Bubba's part, and the McEnany bitch.

Frankly, I don't know how these people can look at themselves in the mirror each morning without being disgusted with what they see.

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Recognizing that MSM are controlled by a handful of corporations with interlocking boards also helps.

Bubba. You are lying again. You keep spamming this fantasy and refusing to answer two simple questions.


1) Who are these corporations?
2) How do they avoid SEC anti trust law by having interlocking boards?

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yep, that is just rank dishonesty, both on Bubba's part, and the McEnany bitch.

Frankly, I don't know how these people can look at themselves in the mirror each morning without being disgusted with what they see.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yeah, that's probably about right!

[TheGoldcountry]

Originally Posted by turingtest

Therefore, the only possible explanation is conspiracy- they couldn't have lost, they must have been cheated; and, as with most CTs, the details don't really matter- they're not after any granular expositions that could hold up in court, they only want the over-arching belief that they can hold on to and hug as a grievance for the next few years.

Thank you for putting this into words so clearly. My nephew follows this kind of circular logic religiously, and I say religiously on purpose, because they share the same kind of confirmation bias. I can never use logic in an argument with him; he feels no need to back up his arguments with evidence because all his positions immediately adhere to his preconceived worldview. If the people opposing his ideas (socialist liberal hippies like me) are so obviously wrong, how can he be anything but right?

[Halcyon Dayz]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I wonder what the price of a soul is these days.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Halcyon Dayz

I wonder what the price of a soul is these days.

30 pieces of silver?

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Halcyon Dayz

I wonder what the price of a soul is these days.

If the devil came down to Georgia, who is Lindsey Graham?

Dave

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Bubba

I like MSM journalists that lament and explain the fact their colleagues are 99% politically leftward activists rather than journalists.

That must come as some surprise to the staff at Fox News, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Telegraph and The Express.
Do you have an actual quote for this claimed lamentation?

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

That must come as some surprise to the staff at Fox News, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Telegraph and The Express.
Do you have an actual quote for this claimed lamentation?

For some reason I'm reminded of this.

Dave

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Asking and noting "Who benefits?" can also be helpful.

Recognizing that MSM are controlled by a handful of corporations with interlocking boards also helps.
Bonus note; The vast majority (85%??) of MSM Boards all have at least one shared Pharma Board guy, on board.--a study.



I think Reuters is somewhere on this map, (named or not).

Originally Posted by Bubba

Dont your favorites have owners??

Why doesn't your graphic include the execs faces with the blue lines connecting to the big three above??

Yours seems so incomplete with out that crucial information.

You have posted this graphic several times before, and I have repeatedly noted how you quote stories from these sources when it is convenient for you to do so (i.e. when you think they support something you've claimed). Some might consider this to be hypocrisy.

However, you do make a good point about ownership.
It is important to know who owns your favourite websites and media outlets.
So, Bubba, who owns Swiss Policy Research? You know, the site that hosts your little MSM ownership graphic? Your post is incomplete without that crucial information.

Quote:

Swiss Policy Research completely lacks transparency as there is not a single name affiliated with the website. For example, an editor is not named and articles do not name an author. Further, they do not list a geographic location and the domain is registered privately. Finally, ownership is not disclosed.

Quote:

Overall, we rate Swiss Policy Research (SPR) a Moderate Conspiracy website based on the promotion of unproven claims. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources and complete lack of transparency.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/swiss-policy-research/

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Bezmenov observed how eventually people simply will not believe their eyes, no matter what, even when photographic evidence is put under their nose.

Despite seeing all the media execs faces and names, and their connections to owners' kingmaking architectures Trilateral, Bilderberg, and CFR...

...and despite seeing

In a column entitled “Ruling Class Journalists”, former Washington Post senior editor and ombudsman Richard Harwood described the Council and its members approvingly as “the nearest thing we have to a ruling establishment in the United States”.

Harwood continued: “The membership of these journalists in the Council, however they may think of themselves, is an acknowledgment of their active and important role in public affairs and of their ascension into the American ruling class. They do not merely analyze and interpret foreign policy for the United States; they help make it. () They are part of that establishment whether they like it or not, sharing most of its values and world views.”

Media researcher Noam Chomsky explained this aspect as follows: “The point is that they wouldn’t be there unless they had already demonstrated that nobody has to tell them what to write because they are going to say the right thing anyway. () They have been through the socialization system.”

Alas and alack....despite what Harwood and Chomsky observed, Craig4 "trusts the process"





Parroting that:




...and lastly, we have a heartfelt confession

I know what I see with my own eyes. It's you I don't believe.

BTW, Where is Christine Grady employed?

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

However, you do make a good point about ownership.
It is important to know who owns your favourite websites and media outlets.
So, Bubba, who owns Swiss Policy Research? You know, the site that hosts your little MSM ownership graphic? Your post is incomplete without that crucial information.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/swiss-policy-research/

Maybe they have something to hide? Now, I wonder what that might be?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

For some reason I'm reminded of this.

Dave

Dave Your a Physicist so when Trump's Physics tells me I can drive 150 miles an Hour though a soild granite Mountain without a Tunnel, do you think I should Try it or should I believe what James Clark Maxwell stated about molecular bonding and Electromagnetism?
Yes our president does tell lies that Dumb the only thing dumber is believing him.
This madness has been going on a very long time, I hope reason, Logic, and Science can return to us.
Time to put this Election Fraud nonsense to bed.

[Cosmic Yak]

As Bubba either doesn't know, or doesn't want to answer, I'll do these myself.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Are you saying that civics is no longer taught in American schools?

Bubba made that claim. It is false: civics is taught in American schools.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Bubba, can you please highlight the parts of the transcript of Trump's remarks where he says the words 'Healight AYTU'?
Thanks.

Bubba can't, because Trump never said those words in the interview. In fact, to my knowledge, Trump has never mentioned this product, either before, during or after the infamous disinfectant speech.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

That must come as some surprise to the staff at Fox News, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Telegraph and The Express.
Do you have an actual quote for this claimed lamentation?

No, Bubba does not have an actual quote, because he simply made it up.
Again.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

It is important to know who owns your favourite websites and media outlets.
So, Bubba, who owns Swiss Policy Research? You know, the site that hosts your little MSM ownership graphic? Your post is incomplete without that crucial information.

Bubba doesn't know who owns that site. He's already said that owners can influence content. For some reason, this does not seem to apply to Bubba's preferred sites, where being a white supremacist apparently has no bearing on the contents of a site that supremacist owns.. I have no doubt that Bubba cannot explain this paradox.

[Bubba]

How true, I guess Smartcooky was right....after all ownership is obviously irrelevant when it comes to controlling what MSM reports.

Forget about media execs connections to Blderberg, CFR, and Trilateral Commission.

[Bubba]

That wacky Sydney Powell sure is a nuisance, claiming those Dominion vote counting rigs are foreign owned, and will therefore be caught in some crazy made up national emergency clause Trump signed years ago or something.

Somebody said she and Trump are now conspiring to steal the election with evidence and Executive Order 13848

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by Bubba

How true, I guess Smartcooky was right....after all ownership is obviously irrelevant when it comes to controlling what MSM reports.

Forget about media execs connections to Blderberg, CFR, and Trilateral Commission.

We're listening to Pat Robertson or Lyndon LaRouche now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-a1518b5bcfff/

Notice the date.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Bubba

That wacky Sydney Powell sure is a nuisance, claiming those Dominion vote counting rigs are foreign owned, and will therefore be caught in some crazy made up national emergency clause Trump signed years ago or something.

She's certainly wacky.

Originally Posted by Bubba

Somebody said she and Trump are now conspiring to steal the election with evidence and Executive Order 13848

Trump doesn't do evidence. His style has always been to continually spew BS in the hopes that some people will eventually believe it.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Bubba

What explains the MSM talkers all saying the exact same words, telling viewers how scary dangerous it is to listen to their competition, online??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnayNPUTnI

The news stations in that video are all owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, a pro-Trump media corporation that specifically told him "We are here to deliver your message."
They were functioning as a propaganda arm of the government in that video, not as the "main stream media".