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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump impeachment

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Old 13th February 2021, 03:15 AM   #2441
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https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/st...09187898040321

Quote:
It’s clear that the point when Trump knew Pence was in danger, and his reaction when officials called him to ask him to call off the insurrectionists, are material facts in dispute which may affect how some senators vote. The House needs to call witnesses.
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Old 13th February 2021, 03:18 AM   #2442
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Mmm. I've seen the suggestion that... "Because Democrats are doing such a good job at making their case, Trump will be effectively unelectable, therefore Republican Senators can happily vote not to convict."

*facepalm*
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Old 13th February 2021, 03:19 AM   #2443
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
For all the good it will do, just sent to my two Senators from Tennessee, with appropriate Senator’s names, of course:

Dear Senator Blackburn,

I suspect that based on your prior words and actions that you intend to vote to acquit former President Trump in this current impeachment trial.

If you do, be aware that you will never in good faith be able to claim to be on the side of “Law and Order” or that you honestly feel “Blue Lives Matter”. The former President clearly violated his oath to “protect and defend the Constitution” and set the stage for the insurrection that occurred on January 6, a day that will live in infamy. People inflamed by his words literally beat police officers with the American flag and wanted to “Hang Mike Pence”. Your own Senate has ruled the impeachment constitutional, and the evidence presented so far is overwhelming that the former President is, in fact, guilty of the charges against him.

I am a new resident of Tennessee. I have been a registered Republican for virtually all of my adult life. However, if either you or Senator Hagerty vote to acquit the former President, I will never vote for either of you, and will actively oppose your reelection.

Please put aside any blind allegiance you may have to the former President and put country over party and vote to convict him for his egregious acts. If you fail to do so, this betrayal of your oath is what history will primarily remember you for.
If Blue Lives actually Mattered, then Eugene Goodman would be being hailed as a hero by the right. But he's not. Because the rallying cry was never really "Blue Lives Matter", but "Black Lives Don't Matter".
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Old 13th February 2021, 03:21 AM   #2444
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Mmm. I've seen the suggestion that... "Because Democrats are doing such a good job at making their case, Trump will be effectively unelectable, therefore Republican Senators can happily vote not to convict."

*facepalm*
A psychopath is someone who never learns from his lessons so it is a dead cert he will do this again.

As Al Fracken said, at the first impeachment the House was warned, 'He will do it again'.

And lo, it came to pass, Trump did it again.

Here endeth today's lesson.
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Old 13th February 2021, 03:52 AM   #2445
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If Blue Lives actually Mattered, then Eugene Goodman would be being hailed as a hero by the right. But he's not. Because the rallying cry was never really "Blue Lives Matter", but "Black Lives Don't Matter".
Sen. Mitch Mitchell did yesterday stand up and nominate Officer Eugene Goodman for the 'highest honour' the House can bestow, for his bravery and courage, etc. Then there was a standing ovation by the entire Senate, including Republicans.
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Old 13th February 2021, 04:11 AM   #2446
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sen. Mitch Mitchell did yesterday stand up and nominate Officer Eugene Goodman for the 'highest honour' the House can bestow, for his bravery and courage, etc. Then there was a standing ovation by the entire Senate, including Republicans.
That's a single performative action. Not even the Republicans could be seen to stand against that.
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Old 13th February 2021, 04:34 AM   #2447
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Commissioner Al Schmidt tweeted

@Commish_Schmidt

@LeaderMcConnell The former POTUS incited supporters to threaten to kill my children and put their “heads on spikes” because we counted votes cast by eligible voters.
They named my children and included my home address in the threats.
Please consider when voting your conscience.
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Old 13th February 2021, 04:47 AM   #2448
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Classic Bruce Castor quote:

“By any measure,” the lawyer said in his most Trumpy way, “President Trump is the most pro-police, anti-mob president this country has ever seen.”

Read the GUARDIAN's scathing critique of the defence lawyers here.
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Old 13th February 2021, 06:07 AM   #2449
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Classic Bruce Castor quote:

“By any measure,” the lawyer said in his most Trumpy way, “President Trump is the most pro-police, anti-mob president this country has ever seen.”
T.R. would perhaps like a word with B.C.
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Old 13th February 2021, 06:44 AM   #2450
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Kevin McCarthy called Trump on Jan. 6 during the riot. We now know more about it due to notes taken my Jamie Herrera Butler (R WA) who was briefed by McCarthy on Jan 10.

KMc called Trump to get him to call off the rioters. Trump claimed they were not his people, they were Antifa. KMc said "No, they aren't Antifa, they're you people".


Okay, let's just stop for a moment here.

Even if Trump thought the attackers were "Antifa", what the **** does that matter? It's still his job to defend the country!

"Sir, the Germans are bombing Pearl Harbor!"
"No, LOL, those are the Japanese!"
"So, we should...?"
"Sit back and watch, duh."
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:33 AM   #2451
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If anyone’s curious, Senator Hagerty’s response to my letter:

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Old 13th February 2021, 08:34 AM   #2452
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Taking witnesses!
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:39 AM   #2453
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
If anyone’s curious, Senator Hagerty’s response to my letter:



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dae899c7_z.jpg
Party approved talking point copypasta.
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:41 AM   #2454
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sen. Mitch Mitchell did yesterday stand up and nominate Officer Eugene Goodman for the 'highest honour' the House can bestow, for his bravery and courage, etc. Then there was a standing ovation by the entire Senate, including Republicans.
ANd now says that he's voting to aquit Toupee Fiasco because, again, golly gee it's too late they should try him in court instead.

For reference, he should also go to jail for a good long time as well - and likely his offspring too. Except Barron, he can probably be saved. But C'mon now, we know it likely won't happen.

Last edited by Mumbles; 13th February 2021 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:43 AM   #2455
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I missed this, but according to the GUARDIAN Van der Veen is at it again:

Quote:
Prior to the 55-45 vote, Trump impeachment lawyer Michael van der Veen warned senators that if Democrats wished to call a witness, he will ask for at least 100 witnesses and insist they give depositions in person in his office in Philadelphia, prompting laughter from the chamber.

“There’s nothing laughable here,” the visibly angered attorney said.

Other missed news is that Lindsey Graham vocal Trumpeteer, has changed his vote to side with the Democrats to call witnesses. Mitt Romney - one of the witnesses - I expect has had an epiphany moment when he bumped into Officer Goodman yelling at him to turn the other way and RUN! with Trump's thug army at the other end of the corridor coming into sight.

IMV if it becomes an inescapable and irrevocable fact that Trump was happy to see his own Vice President, Mike Pence, HANG that may swing enough Republicans to vote in favour of conviction,
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:47 AM   #2456
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For people who like a constant analysis there's a live streaming here by NBC.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:52 AM   #2457
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Tomi Ahonen predicts:

Quote:
Trump HATES this. He is broke. He can't afford this clown legal team. Schoen (Water boy) already quit once. The Record Player attorney Castor isn't gonna be paid and was punished to do the Georgia steal. This Clown attorney Van Der Veen is in misery. Expect changes to this team
https://twitter.com/tomiahonen/statu...578167808?s=20


Quote:
Because they take witnesses (or at least one) they now do a deposition (in Congress via video, not at Clown attorney Van Der Veen's office in Philadelphia haha)

It causes delay. They will pause this trial, take the deposition, then the trial will continue.
https://twitter.com/tomiahonen/statu...558208514?s=20
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:54 AM   #2458
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Party approved talking point copypasta.
Yup. Suddenly the pandemic matters.
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:58 AM   #2459
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NBC just said that Jamie Herrera Beutler will be called. I think it's reasonable to assume that what she will testify to is the statement embedded in this tweet: https://twitter.com/HerreraBeutler/s...19828721401856
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:58 AM   #2460
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"I think the real question is what did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it" -- Roger Marshall Republican senator from Kansas,
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:00 AM   #2461
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I was pretty much resigned to having all this done by this afternoon, with the obvious outcome being acquittal. But this new development moves the needle slightly in the opposite direction. I for one am glad that Trump is not getting off the hook so easily. The more stress he experiences, the better.

Schoen might have been convinced to stay on what amounted to another day or so, but with this expecting to be being dragged out he is probably having strong thoughts about quitting for good.

I loved when Van der Been got laughed at, and especially his pouty, almost teary, retort "I didn't laugh at you!"

Whatever points McCarthy scored with Trump by going to Florida to (kiss his ring) have probably been negated by the broken story. He's probably on Trump's **** list now. And those are always carved in stone.

Will we be seeing Van der Been replaced?
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:00 AM   #2462
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
If anyone’s curious, Senator Hagerty’s response to my letter:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...dae899c7_z.jpg


A thing of beauty, complains about people trying to score cheap political points, then turns around and tries to score cheap political points.
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:12 AM   #2463
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I was pretty much resigned to having all this done by this afternoon, with the obvious outcome being acquittal. But this new development moves the needle slightly in the opposite direction. I for one am glad that Trump is not getting off the hook so easily. The more stress he experiences, the better.

Schoen might have been convinced to stay on what amounted to another day or so, but with this expecting to be being dragged out he is probably having strong thoughts about quitting for good.

I loved when Van der Been got laughed at, and especially his pouty, almost teary, retort "I didn't laugh at you!"

Whatever points McCarthy scored with Trump by going to Florida to kiss his ring have probably been negated by the broken story. He's probably on Trump's **** list now. And those are always carved in stone.

Will we be seeing Van der Been replaced?
Dems have nothing to lose. The acquittal was in, so witnesses only gives them a chance to try to move things.
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:19 AM   #2464
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They need to tie "what Trump knew and when" to the National Gaurd issues.

Firing up the opposition is only half a coup. Intentionally disempowering defense forces is a central part of the takeover attempt (and presses for Senators how he was ready to sacrifice them to a mob for his own sake, not collective party ascendancy).
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:26 AM   #2465
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
.....
Other missed news is that Lindsey Graham vocal Trumpeteer, has changed his vote to side with the Democrats to call witnesses.
.....
Graham is not siding with the Dems. He announced previously that if the Dems call witnesses, his side will gum up the works by calling their own witnesses, like the defense lawyer claiming he'll depose 100 witnesses at his Philadelphia office.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/linds...b6aa4bad374665
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Old 13th February 2021, 09:53 AM   #2466
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not patently false. There already is a precedent. Secretary of War William Belknap resigned his office, then was impeached and tried. The idea that this is a slippery slope is absurd. The Belknap impeachment took place 160 years ago. That was the last time.

The House and Senate are clearly not inclined to hold a rash of impeachments in the future.
Blount though provides the precedent that Members of Congress are not subject to impeachment. So at best, you have 2 precedents where one supports impeachment after they have already left office, and the other establishes who is subject to it. Neither of these really help the President's case.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:00 AM   #2467
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Just watching a repeat of the lead up to the vote on witnesses or documents. Trump's lawyer was arguing vociferously against it, saying that Democrats were trampling on the Constitution. Didn't I just watch footage of Trump's lawyers arguing that Democrats didn't provide any evidence?

Make up your mind.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:16 AM   #2468
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"I think the real question is what did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it" -- Roger Marshall Republican senator from Kansas,
I keep thinking, go ahead, call Pelosi. How is this even a threat?

The big threat is dragging the trial out. Given the House is working away on legislation and the Senate has every morning to take care of business, other than boring the public I'm not sure the threat is viable.

If the GOP calls meaningless witness after witness, it might not be that hard to get the public annoyed with the GOP rather than with the Democrats. Maybe the Republicans will start getting picked off, moving to the conviction side.

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Old 13th February 2021, 10:22 AM   #2469
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More witnesses, longer trial, poor Trumpy may have to use donations for his defense on his actual defense instead of pocketing it.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:22 AM   #2470
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I keep thinking, go ahead, call Pelosi. How is this even a threat?

The big threat is dragging the trial out. Given the House is working away on legislation and the Senate has every morning to take care of business, other than boring the public I'm not sure the threat is viable.

If the GOP calls meaningless witness after witness, it might not be that hard to get the public annoyed with the GOP rather than with the Democrats. Maybe the Republicans will start getting picked off, moving to the conviction side.
My understanding is that the defense does not have carte blanche to call witnesses. It requires Senate approval.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:23 AM   #2471
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"I think the real question is what did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it" -- Roger Marshall Republican senator from Kansas,
"Did Trump rape a 6-year old on the Resolute Desk every day of his presidency?
Just asking questions here."
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:26 AM   #2472
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I've been trying to follow the defense, and it seems approximately like this:

Prosecutor: Here's a picture of the victim, dead after being shot.

Defense: But we don't know who shot him.

P: Here is the defendant with a gun in his hand.

D: But we don't know if he shot it.

P: Here is a picture of him pulling the trigger and the gun smoking.

D: But we don't know whether it was his bullet that hit the victim.

P: Here is the ballistics report that says it was.

D: But we don't know what he was aiming at.

P: Here is a picture of him aiming at the victim after threatening to kill him.

D: But did anyone see the bullet? Unless you can see the bullet, you have to allow for the possibility that the victim was shot by Jewish lasers from outer space. Acquit!
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:26 AM   #2473
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This might be a good point to get a deal to dismiss the trial; get a vote of censure for incitement of insurrection and strip Trump of his pension, travel and office budget. Maybe they could even strip him of his official customs and courtesies.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:39 AM   #2474
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"I think the real question is what did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it" -- Roger Marshall Republican senator from Kansas,
She knew, in real-time, there were people stalking through the building calling for her extra-judicial execution.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:45 AM   #2475
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
She knew, in real-time, there were people stalking through the building calling for her extra-judicial execution.
To T**** supporters any penalty from execution to a stern talking to would be equally egregious.
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:48 AM   #2476
Squeegee Beckenheim
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As far as I can gather, the "calling Nancy Pelosi" thing seems to be that they're going to try to paint it that it was her who was responsible for disallowing reinforcements, seemingly based on these statements about "optics". Pelosi is not mentioned in the article.
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Old 13th February 2021, 11:03 AM   #2477
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As far as I can gather, the "calling Nancy Pelosi" thing seems to be that they're going to try to paint it that it was her who was responsible for disallowing reinforcements, seemingly based on these statements about "optics". Pelosi is not mentioned in the article.
In addition to the National Guard, Washington DC is full of federal cops. All the agencies have large staffs of agents and officers in their headquarters here (commissioned officers in addition to the support staff). There are three major airports that weren't doing a lot with large contingents of CBP officers. The FBI field office in Washington is one of the largest.

The administration could have had a massive yet relatively discreet security presence if it was so inclined and wanted to manage the "optics".
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Old 13th February 2021, 11:08 AM   #2478
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
"Did Trump rape a 6-year old on the Resolute Desk every day of his presidency?
Just asking questions here."
People are saying.
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Old 13th February 2021, 11:12 AM   #2479
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So deal struck, read the relevant Tweet, enter rebuttal evidence to the defense claim Trump acted when he found out about the Capitol breach.

I think the first 2 of Trump's actual responses, matched to the timeframe of the mob's action was pretty clear proof he knew and didn't act to stop it.
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Old 13th February 2021, 11:14 AM   #2480
Ethan Thane Athen
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I missed this, but according to the GUARDIAN Van der Veen is at it again:




Other missed news is that Lindsey Graham vocal Trumpeteer, has changed his vote to side with the Democrats to call witnesses. Mitt Romney - one of the witnesses - I expect has had an epiphany moment when he bumped into Officer Goodman yelling at him to turn the other way and RUN! with Trump's thug army at the other end of the corridor coming into sight.

IMV if it becomes an inescapable and irrevocable fact that Trump was happy to see his own Vice President, Mike Pence, HANG that may swing enough Republicans to vote in favour of conviction,
I hope you’re right but I doubt it. Most of them seem pretty committed to party over anything else and simply won’t be able to countenance a Dem ‘win’. There are very few principles left in the Republican Party. Because they never actually got hold of Pence it’ll just be hand washed away.

Last edited by Ethan Thane Athen; 13th February 2021 at 11:15 AM.
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