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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump impeachment

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Old 14th February 2021, 08:00 AM   #2681
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Trump has been acquitted. His base is now motivated and solidified with a passion like never before. There will be no Republican party split, there will be primaries for RINOs.

Now that it's over, can we focus less on President Trump and move on to healing the Nation now? Remember "unity"? From the outside looking in, it looks like the promise of "unity" is an empty one. I hope I'm wrong, but the seething hatred is difficult to ignore.
It's just a little ironic that you think our left needs to unify with your right on your terms while you're busy kicking out of your own party anyone whose opinions you can't abide. That's not "unity" you're calling for, it's surrender.
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Old 14th February 2021, 08:23 AM   #2682
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Maybe in a classic murder case, physical evidence makes the case stronger. Here you have Exhibit A, B and C that you can feel, touch, pick up, examine under a microscope, extract DNA and fingerprints, smell, weigh, see. However, that is not the sole sum of evidence. In a case like Insurrection Against the USA Government by a Sitting President, it is a lot more abstract as leading an insurrection involves proving there was a persuading of minds, inflaming of emotions, whipping up of hysteria, none of which is is tangible. This is why Van der Veen's core argument was, 'Well, for stirring up an insurrection, you have to look at the words used, which led on nicely to his other key argument, the First Amendment, the right to free speech, which he argued quite well as being of essential for a politician at the highest levels in order to express political concepts, whatever they may be.

His error was focussing solely on the speech Trump made at the Ellipse before and during the mob march down Pennsylvannia Avenue. Trump very cannily included the word 'peacefully' - well, he could hardly say, 'violently' - and his whole case hinged around that. In addition, Trump was not physically there at the Capitol Riots. Unlike Wat Tyler of the fourteen century, leading his angry mob of peasants over London Bridge after marching all the way from Canterbury, incensed by the newly imposed Poll Tax, to confront the king, 14-year-old Richard II, where they met face to face at Smithfield. (Tyler met a sorry end, when Richard's men killed him.) Quite likely, Trump intended to 'walk' with them but was forcibly prevented by his bodyguards for fear of his assassination.

So, how do you prove 'insurrection' beyond a reasonable doubt if the perpetrator wasn't actually at the scene of the action? Well, we look at something that is extremely important in criminal law/impeachment law: we look closely at the chronology of events, and the House Managers did this superbly and should not be downhearted at the defeat. Trump had planted the claim of a 'rigged election' during the six months previously. This he did as tactically and as strategically as any army general.

He built up a hardcore of 'troops' made up the most radicalised, violent, psychopathic, baying thugs, hiding behind 'patriotism' as an excuse for thuggery. The prosecution showed an exchange of social media message between Kremer, an organiser for his rally, in which she agreed to change the date of a rally earmarked 20/21 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan 2021 timed to take place 11:00 - circa 13:00, when the certification of the election was due to take place at Capitol Hill - saying 'I am bringing the Calvary' [sic], to which Trump retweeted with the words, I am greatly honored.

Van der Veen made the ludicrous claim that when there is a murder, it doesn't matter what the murderer does afterwards, to rebut the hard physical evidence in the form of a phone log between Trump and Turbeville that Trump knew Pence and his family were in immediate danger, yet still (a) failed to do anything at all to stop the riots as Commander-in-Chief with the National Guard at his disposal, and (b) continued to bear pressure on a Senator to prevent the certification.

So, was that enough to convict, given there is never going to be 'hard evidence' for an abstract concept of insurrection, especially if the supposed leader is not even there at the scene of the uprising? IMV the case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. What Trump did - or failed to do - after his speech of 6th Jan 2021 was just as important as what he did before. The chronology is very clear and sound legally acceptable evidence.
Reasonable doubt is not the standard in an impeachment trial (which is not a criminal trial). You're asking the wrong question.
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Old 14th February 2021, 08:47 AM   #2683
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One way to look at it is that he lost the popular vote yet again.

Last edited by Resume; 14th February 2021 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 14th February 2021, 08:50 AM   #2684
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...f862a7f5c6.jpg

"Oh ****, we're on the defensive, let's try for this unity and reconcilliation after all!"
**** unity and reconciliation.
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Old 14th February 2021, 08:56 AM   #2685
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You can say what you want about McConnell, but he's not stupid. In order for what you say to be true he'd have to believe he could control Trump, that he could control the DOJ, and he could trust Trump to keep his word in 3 years' time. And in order to believe those things he'd have to be stupid.
Is Moscow Mitch really that smart?

Ok, I think its pretty much a given that McConnell is smarter than Trump. But, that's a pretty low bar to set. And yes, he managed to wreck havoc on congress, got Drunky McRapeface and the Stepford Wife on the supreme court, and got his tax cuts for millionaires passed.

But it didn't really take that much "intelligence" to do a lot of that stuff... just a willingness to say "no" over an over again when Obama was president. And after 4 years of Stubby McBonespurs (where the republicans had a lock on congress for 2 of those), where is the GOP now?
- They lost the white house, when usually a party that holds it will win re-election at least once.
- They lost congress, and while the GOP might win back the house in 2022, the senate roadmap is less promising to the republicans and they could lose ground there.
- The republicans failed to capitalize on their power early in Trump's term to pass more legislation.
- The republicans now have to deal with potential divisions, a shrinking voter base, and an ex-president who maintains significant power and is willing to blow things up if he doesn't get his way.

Granted, McConnell wasn't the cause of a lot of that. But he also failed to adapt to changes in the political landscape.

If he was smart, he would have had the senate convict Trump in his first impeachment... Granted, it would have cost them in the 2020 election, but they wouldn't necessarily been any worse off than they are now, they would have been rid of Trump, and they would have had a better base to build off of in future elections.
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Old 14th February 2021, 09:05 AM   #2686
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
I mean, the evidence that he's guilty is overwhelming.

And in some ways, I agree that this wasn't constitutional. Impeachment is about removal from office.
Its already been mentioned before, but in case you didn't notice...

Impeachment isn't JUST about removing people from office. There are punishments available that go beyond that (most importantly, baring Trump from holding office in the future.)

So impeachment is completely constitutional.
Quote:
So... Is an aquittal here actually for the best? If Trump had been found guilty, could it have been said that he had been punished enough? And now, found not guilty by the legislative branch, is it time to give the judicial branch a go?
Actually the more likely scenario isn't "The senate didn't convict, so now he is more likely to face criminal conviction". The more likely scenario is that the defense in any legal case will point to the failure to convict in the senate and say "How can he be guilty of this crime when he was cleared by the senate?"
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Old 14th February 2021, 09:06 AM   #2687
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And I think a lot of the features of the Europoean Palrimantrian System are warped...
Perhaps. But it seems to be good at avoiding T**** types gaining significant power. (Except perhaps in Italy, but Italy is ... Italy).

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Old 14th February 2021, 09:16 AM   #2688
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The Turtle's speech was to Trump, not the public.

He basically said "I got your sorrow son-of-a-bitch POS ass off the hook on a technicality when we all know you are guilty as ****. So your sorrow son-of-a-bitch POS ass now belongs to ME! So shut the **** up, find another ******* career, never run for politics again, and get back in your ******* hole where you belong.
If Moscow Mitch actually thought that, then he is an idiot.

Trump has never shown any sort of loyalty or gratitude to anyone, and he is unlikely to change his ways. Trump will not have listened to McConnell's speech and say "I dodged a bullet there thanks thanks to McConnell... I should keep out of the spotlight". In fact, just the opposite... he is likely to feel even more emboldened, with the knowledge that he holds enough power to bend the majority of Republican congress-critters to his will. And Moscow Mitch might be a potential target... because despite the fact that he helped enable Trump's terrorism, he also said something that was not completely flattering.

Quote:
Or there will be criminal prosecutions which I can't stop."
Which of course would be completely irrelevant. Politicians are generally forbidden from interfering in criminal prosecutions, and as a politician in the minority party, he'd have even less influence.

So Moscow Mitch couldn't stop Trump from being prosecuted even if he wanted to.
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Old 14th February 2021, 09:23 AM   #2689
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Perhaps. But it seems to be good at avoiding T**** types gaining significant power. (Except perhaps in Italy, but Italy is ... Italy).

Hans
Italy has a history of prosecuting their leaders and putting them behind bars if they commit crimes, something the USA has never done.

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Old 14th February 2021, 09:31 AM   #2690
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Italy has a history of prosecuting their leaders and putting them behind bars if they commit crimes, something the USA has never done.
Yes, but this was about avoiding T**** types. Case in mind, Berlusconi. But even he was not as bad as T****. He may end up behind bars, but he still did get power.

Hans
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Old 14th February 2021, 09:54 AM   #2691
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Trump 2024
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:00 AM   #2692
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Italy has a history of prosecuting their leaders and putting them behind bars if they commit crimes, something the USA has never done.
Er, perhaps Italy is not a good example. It got Andreotti and Berlusconi off on a loophole on appeal of their convictions, under a paragraph, 'insufficient evidence' which had originally been the reasoning in cases involving organised political groups who had planted bombs in various places, the argument being the court had not established who in particular planted the bombs. Berlusconi was later found to have lied at his appeal.


So no, don't look to Italy!


I suppose Mussolini got a different kind of just desserts.
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:07 AM   #2693
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
... So, was that enough to convict, given there is never going to be 'hard evidence' for an abstract concept of insurrection, especially if the supposed leader is not even there at the scene of the uprising? IMV the case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. What Trump did - or failed to do - after his speech of 6th Jan 2021 was just as important as what he did before. The chronology is very clear and sound legally acceptable evidence.
Of course it was and some people, including reporters asking questions at the House Managers' press conference, want to put this on the prosecution not doing enough. They proved the case and the news media should be reporting that they did. FFS McConnell in a long boring speech excusing his despicable vote agreed.

The only thing they could have done more of was shame the GOP Senators turning a blind eye. Maybe they should have just outright offended the worst of them showing how they were complicit. They could have pointed out Pence is hiding his shame, refusing to speak out against Trump to this day.

Maybe the Democrats and the Lincoln Project will still do that. Pence must be going through brain-damaging cognitive dissonance right now.

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Old 14th February 2021, 10:17 AM   #2694
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The Republican's argument that it is unconstitutional is absurd on every level. It is more a straw to grasp upon than anything else.

1. The Constitution doesn't say that former Presidents couldn't be impeached or tried, or that any former official couldn't be impeached.
2. The Founders never said that former Presidents couldn't be impeached either.
3. In fact John Quincy Adams stated that he could be impeached long after he was President.
4. Blount and Belknap were impeached after they left office.
5. The founders considered impeachment as a tool not only to remove derelict public officials but to stain them.

Finally,

6. The Senate themselves voted that it was Constitutional and then conducted the trial. If SCOTUS rules that something is Constitutional in a 5 to 4 ruling, it is Constitutional. The same is true for the US Senate when it applies to trying public officials.

As a body, the Senate said it was fine. By then voting against the facts because one does not agree with the rules the Senate has passed is the GOP again spitting on the process.
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:17 AM   #2695
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Trump 2024
Will you bother with an election, or has he already decided he's won it?
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:26 AM   #2696
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Is Moscow Mitch really that smart?

Ok, I think its pretty much a given that McConnell is smarter than Trump. But, that's a pretty low bar to set. And yes, he managed to wreck havoc on congress, got Drunky McRapeface and the Stepford Wife on the supreme court, and got his tax cuts for millionaires passed.

But it didn't really take that much "intelligence" to do a lot of that stuff... just a willingness to say "no" over an over again when Obama was president. And after 4 years of Stubby McBonespurs (where the republicans had a lock on congress for 2 of those), where is the GOP now?
- They lost the white house, when usually a party that holds it will win re-election at least once.
- They lost congress, and while the GOP might win back the house in 2022, the senate roadmap is less promising to the republicans and they could lose ground there.
- The republicans failed to capitalize on their power early in Trump's term to pass more legislation.
- The republicans now have to deal with potential divisions, a shrinking voter base, and an ex-president who maintains significant power and is willing to blow things up if he doesn't get his way.

Granted, McConnell wasn't the cause of a lot of that. But he also failed to adapt to changes in the political landscape.

If he was smart, he would have had the senate convict Trump in his first impeachment... Granted, it would have cost them in the 2020 election, but they wouldn't necessarily been any worse off than they are now, they would have been rid of Trump, and they would have had a better base to build off of in future elections.
I couldn't agree more. He's most notable for inaction, which is usually enough. It creates an illusion of cunning. When he has to do something he does two things which cancel, such as his vote and his later speech. He's floundering.
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:30 AM   #2697
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Will you bother with an election, or has he already decided he's won it?
By a landslide.
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Old 14th February 2021, 10:34 AM   #2698
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
By a landslide.
Bigger than any other candidate in history.

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Old 14th February 2021, 10:55 AM   #2699
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Will you bother with an election, or has he already decided he's won it?
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
By a landslide.
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Bigger than any other candidate in history.

Hans
Well, you know...75 million voters can't be wrong- they can be outvoted (by around 7 million more), but who cares about that? (I do love the stretchy "75 million" thing- only Trump and Trumpers could misunderstand "rounding off" just over 74.1 million that badly)

ETA- please, please, let Trump make a serious run in 2024. I could run as a Democrat and beat a Republican party split between the mulish folks wearing Trump blinders and "RINOs."
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Old 14th February 2021, 11:37 AM   #2700
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Is Moscow Mitch really that smart?

Ok, I think its pretty much a given that McConnell is smarter than Trump. But, that's a pretty low bar to set. And yes, he managed to wreck havoc on congress, got Drunky McRapeface and the Stepford Wife on the supreme court, and got his tax cuts for millionaires passed.
That's pretty much what he wanted to begin with. The problem is that he's in an untenable position in the long-term. The GOP base has been fed on conspiracy nonsense (how long ago was the Clinton murder list, or the War on Christmas?) and hatred of the other (Bogative's avatar is a classic example of racism via the Jezebel stereotype - pure slave rape apologism carried up to the current year- and folks like Limbaugh and D'Souza have trafficked in similar junk for decades, never mind Reagan's anti-gay hatred that allowed the HIV pandemic to flourish while he smiled about it), while the elites work to funnel more money to themselves.

Toupee Fiasco just cut through all that and spewed unvarnished white nationalism, starting with birtherism back in 2011. And now the base isn't really satisfied with anything less. McConnell's trying to persuade the folks that thought the GOP was really about "small government" or "good business", but there's just no way to hide the "we hate ******* and queers" faction. But really, this all set up before Moscow Mitch rose to leadership - again, this was set in the Goldwater-Reagan era, and solidified at most a decade ago.

ETA: Gingrich's scorched earth strategy had it's own role to play, of course, but the overall descent to neo-fascism and conspiracy theory wasn't him.

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Old 14th February 2021, 12:11 PM   #2701
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
ETA- please, please, let Trump make a serious run in 2024. I could run as a Democrat and beat a Republican party split between the mulish folks wearing Trump blinders and "RINOs."
Who would be his running mate? Ivanka? The MyPillow guy?
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:14 PM   #2702
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Who would be his running mate? Ivanka? The MyPillow guy?
Mike Pence would volunteer.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:18 PM   #2703
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
ETA- please, please, let Trump make a serious run in 2024. I could run as a Democrat and beat a Republican party split between the mulish folks wearing Trump blinders and "RINOs."
It certainly sounds good... republicans pick a divisive candidate and democrats benefit.

But, there are risks to that... what if Biden's popularity plummets at the end of his first term (maybe a big recession hits, or some other pandemic takes hold)? What if republican voter suppression becomes even more successful? Then, even a weakened and divided republican party (with Trump as the lead) might still win.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:23 PM   #2704
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If Moscow Mitch actually thought that, then he is an idiot.

Trump has never shown any sort of loyalty or gratitude to anyone, and he is unlikely to change his ways. Trump will not have listened to McConnell's speech and say "I dodged a bullet there thanks thanks to McConnell... I should keep out of the spotlight". In fact, just the opposite... he is likely to feel even more emboldened, with the knowledge that he holds enough power to bend the majority of Republican congress-critters to his will. And Moscow Mitch might be a potential target... because despite the fact that he helped enable Trump's terrorism, he also said something that was not completely flattering.
Quite true. My point was only that Mitch was sending Trump a warning. Of course, Trump is notoriously bad at listening at the best of times. Trump doesn't do "code". So this warning will almost definitely not have even been heard let alone heeded.


Quote:
Which of course would be completely irrelevant. Politicians are generally forbidden from interfering in criminal prosecutions, and as a politician in the minority party, he'd have even less influence.

So Moscow Mitch couldn't stop Trump from being prosecuted even if he wanted to.
Again, true. My point was exactly that. Mitch WANTS T**** prosecuted. He wants T**** dead and buried, figuratively if not literally. T**** has been a giant spanner in Mitch's machinations. But he can't be SEEN to be the driver of the legal prosecution, for his own political stake.

So what he sent Trump was a classic threat: Nice little scam you got going there, Don. But it would be a shame if you took it onto my turf...again.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:33 PM   #2705
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
It certainly sounds good... republicans pick a divisive candidate and democrats benefit.

But, there are risks to that... what if Biden's popularity plummets at the end of his first term (maybe a big recession hits, or some other pandemic takes hold)? What if republican voter suppression becomes even more successful? Then, even a weakened and divided republican party (with Trump as the lead) might still win.
The obvious solution is to change the political landscape very soon. Change the game entirely.

For example, changing federal redistribution laws for states to more equitably draw up electoral boundaries (stop gerrymandering).

Also, revising federal electoral laws to impose a consistent, equitable, robust set of election processes across all states.

In other words, force those who would "win" only by easily cheating the system to play by the rules so they have to win on their merits instead.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:34 PM   #2706
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The truth actually is that you have swallowed lots and lots of lies (lies by omission).
Come on, Bubba. you swallowed the biggest, saltiest lie of all in the form of QAnon's cartoonish fantasy world. And you assured us that you'd openly admit that you were wrong when none of that infantile claptrap proved true. So were you lying about that, or have you rolled your track-mounted "just you wait and see" goalpost back to March 5th?
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:38 PM   #2707
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Quote:
Is Moscow Mitch really that smart?

Ok, I think its pretty much a given that McConnell is smarter than Trump. But, that's a pretty low bar to set. And yes, he managed to wreck havoc on congress, got Drunky McRapeface and the Stepford Wife on the supreme court, and got his tax cuts for millionaires passed.
That's pretty much what he wanted to begin with.
McConnell wanted right wing judges, and he got them. But now that the republicans are out of power, they won't be getting any more for at least 4 years, maybe more.

And while he wanted right-wing judges, I suspect he didn't care which right wing judges were picked. Had he been smart, perhaps he might have decided to reject Drunky McRapeface... Trump would have picked someone just as right-wing as a replacement, but likely without the baggage. And perhaps fewer moderates or democrats would be as fired up to vote against the republicans as a result.

And yes, they got their millionaire tax cuts, but those are unlikely to last much longer now that the democrats have taken control.
Quote:
The problem is that he's in an untenable position in the long-term. The GOP base has been fed on conspiracy nonsense
...
Toupee Fiasco just cut through all that and spewed unvarnished white nationalism, starting with birtherism back in 2011. And now the base isn't really satisfied with anything less. McConnell's trying to persuade the folks that thought the GOP was really about "small government" or "good business", but there's just no way to hide the "we hate ******* and queers" faction.
I have no doubt that republican voter ignorance/bigotry/etc. would be difficult if not impossible to deal with in the long term.

But, at the very least he could have done more in the short term... get more legislation passed when they had both congress and the white house, do more to try to hold on to the senate for at least another term to at least have some control over tax legislation and judicial nominees.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:43 PM   #2708
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Re: Trump involved in 2024 election/republicans lose as a result...
Quote:
But, there are risks to that... what if Biden's popularity plummets at the end of his first term (maybe a big recession hits, or some other pandemic takes hold)? What if republican voter suppression becomes even more successful? Then, even a weakened and divided republican party (with Trump as the lead) might still win.
The obvious solution is to change the political landscape very soon. Change the game entirely.

For example, changing federal redistribution laws for states to more equitably draw up electoral boundaries (stop gerrymandering).

Also, revising federal electoral laws to impose a consistent, equitable, robust set of election processes across all states.
I agree that those should be done.

The problem is, the constitution gives a lot of power to the states in determining how their elections get run. And even if the federal government tried to set guidelines and rules (as they did with the voting rights act), there is a good chance that the supreme court would rule it unconstitutional.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:47 PM   #2709
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
That's pretty much what he wanted to begin with. The problem is that he's in an untenable position in the long-term. The GOP base has been fed on conspiracy nonsense (how long ago was the Clinton murder list, or the War on Christmas?) and hatred of the other (Bogative's avatar is a classic example of racism via the Jezebel stereotype - pure slave rape apologism carried up to the current year- and folks like Limbaugh and D'Souza have trafficked in similar junk for decades, never mind Reagan's anti-gay hatred that allowed the HIV pandemic to flourish while he smiled about it), while the elites work to funnel more money to themselves.

Toupee Fiasco just cut through all that and spewed unvarnished white nationalism, starting with birtherism back in 2011. And now the base isn't really satisfied with anything less. McConnell's trying to persuade the folks that thought the GOP was really about "small government" or "good business", but there's just no way to hide the "we hate ******* and queers" faction. But really, this all set up before Moscow Mitch rose to leadership - again, this was set in the Goldwater-Reagan era, and solidified at most a decade ago.

ETA: Gingrich's scorched earth strategy had it's own role to play, of course, but the overall descent to neo-fascism and conspiracy theory wasn't him.
One of the things that gets me is that it seems McConnell was once a supporter of Martin Luther King, and an integrationist at a time when this was not the popular position. I'm sure he would still be offended to be called a racist. And yet.... I've long maintained that most Republicans would support Satan if he promised right-wing judges, and I think McConnell's sick cynicism drives that home.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:53 PM   #2710
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Trump 2024
I can see it now: a 78 year old, morbidly obese Trump shuffling out from the wings toward the podium, under a banner reading "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AGAIN", continues shuffling past the podium toward the opposite wing, where he is eventually turned back toward the podium by visibly agitated running-mate Marjorie Taylor Greene. When he finally arrives at the microphone, he stares around the house in confusion for an uncomfortably long time, then points wildly into the crowd and cries, "Oh God! It's Putin! I'll get your money, Vlad! Oh God! Don't have me thrown out a window, please!". Then he craps his pants.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:54 PM   #2711
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Trump 2024
who would know to vote for someone without Twitter or FB presence ?
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:59 PM   #2712
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Re: McConnell's speech as a 'warning' to Trump...
Quote:
If Moscow Mitch actually thought that, then he is an idiot.

Trump has never shown any sort of loyalty or gratitude to anyone, and he is unlikely to change his ways.
Quite true. My point was only that Mitch was sending Trump a warning.
...
Again, true. My point was exactly that. Mitch WANTS T**** prosecuted. He wants T**** dead and buried, figuratively if not literally. T**** has been a giant spanner in Mitch's machinations. But he can't be SEEN to be the driver of the legal prosecution, for his own political stake.

So what he sent Trump was a classic threat: Nice little scam you got going there, Don. But it would be a shame if you took it onto my turf...again.
But what threat? Moscow mitch has no power, no authority. Trump can do all he wants and all McConnell can do is go along with it, while at the same time making empty statements.

If Trump does end up prosecuted, it won't be because McConnell asked for it, or because he had a hand in bringing charges. It will be because independent prosecutors decided to act.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:59 PM   #2713
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
I can see it now: a 78 year old, morbidly obese Trump shuffling out from the wings toward the podium, under a banner reading "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AGAIN", continues shuffling past the podium toward the opposite wing, where he is eventually turned back toward the podium by visibly agitated running-mate Marjorie Taylor Greene. When he finally arrives at the microphone, he stares around the house in confusion for an uncomfortably long time, then points wildly into the crowd and cries, "Oh God! It's Putin! I'll get your money, Vlad! Oh God! Don't have me thrown out a window, please!". Then he craps his pants.
The Senate ***** their pants out of solidarity. **** for Trump goes viral.
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:06 PM   #2714
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The obvious solution is to change the political landscape very soon. Change the game entirely.

For example, changing federal redistribution laws for states to more equitably draw up electoral boundaries (stop gerrymandering).

Also, revising federal electoral laws to impose a consistent, equitable, robust set of election processes across all states.

In other words, force those who would "win" only by easily cheating the system to play by the rules so they have to win on their merits instead.
How well does H.R.1 - For the People Act of 2021 meet what you desire?
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:17 PM   #2715
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Who would be his running mate? Ivanka? The MyPillow guy?
Marjorie Taylor Green.
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:26 PM   #2716
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The Trump Supporters here are no better then the mindless iditos in Germany who felt "The Fuehrur Can Do No Wrong!'.
Make no mistake, a dictaroship is what they want.
And the only regreat they have about the insurrection is that if failed.
But given that they also thought that Biden would never take office Ithink their gifts of prophecy are limited.
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:42 PM   #2717
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
But what threat? Moscow mitch has no power, no authority. Trump can do all he wants and all McConnell can do is go along with it, while at the same time making empty statements.

If Trump does end up prosecuted, it won't be because McConnell asked for it, or because he had a hand in bringing charges. It will be because independent prosecutors decided to act.
Again, true. It's the threat that McConnell is making that I'm seeing. It's a warning, a fist-shake to T**** and his notions of running again.

McConnell knows that if Trump does continue to hurl his feces in public and some erstwhile Republican voters follow him down that path to crazy-town, Mitch may as well retire now while he still (relatively) has some pull in Congress. Because the Republican Party as history knows it will become a Nazi rabble with Mitch in the useless Wiemar rump.

Personally, I'm seeing all this as just a feeble gesture from a cowardly geriatric Tammany Hall operator towards a drive-by lunatic gangster heading for a cliff.
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:47 PM   #2718
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
How well does H.R.1 - For the People Act of 2021 meet what you desire?
Not being American, this is not be about what I desire. It should be what the USA desires.

Not having read it in full, I'm sure that bill has merits and possible faults as well. The debate on it should be enlightening. Separate new thread?
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Old 14th February 2021, 02:01 PM   #2719
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
It wasn't my letter, it was Eddie's but I do agree that staff sent the photocopy reply, threw Eddie's letter away and went out for happy hour(s).
Correct. My mistake. I will force myself to have two glasses of wine in penance tonight.
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Old 14th February 2021, 02:08 PM   #2720
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Correct. My mistake. I will force myself to have two glasses of wine in penance tonight.
Cheers!
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