The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

heydarian, I'd suggest you visit a psychiatrist and a neurologist, and get the insides of your head tested. Nothing to be ashamed of, but your brain seems to be lacking the basic reasoning faculty that all human beings generally take for granted. This whole thread is evidence of your amazing inability to think straight; and this sentence, that forms the crux of that particular post of yours, kind of brings into focus how crippled is your thought process.

This sounds rude, I know, but I'm not saying this to denigrate you. There's clearly something wrong with you. Not because you believe in the childish fairy tales that is Islam, because God knows there are enough adults that harbor absurd beliefs like that. But your total inability to think straight about anything at all, that doesn't seem very normal, not very healthy.

To fall into this kind of error in reasoning is in itself, again, not that much of a rarity, unfortunately. But to continue to be blind to this, even when people point out things of this sort to you repeatedly, that seems to me indication of a mind that is afflicted, and might benefit from treatment.




eta belatedly:

For instance, where you blithely gloss over where Pixel42, whom you claim to respect and whose words you claim to read carefully, tells you you're indulging in "circular thinking". That phrase means something, as you would know if you had even the most fundamental understanding of logic. That you don't have that foundation is not the problem; the problem is your refusal to update your knowledge base despite so many people taking the time and effort to educate you.

Another example, where so many people are clearly pointing out to you that evolution has no purpose. Forget quantum mechanics and whatnot, do you even understand what the word "science" actually means? There are people here who actually know a thing or two about how evolution works; as well a great many who, while not experts, nevertheless are conversant enough to give you a basic outline. When people tell you there is no purpose to evolution, your response is to unthinkingly parrot your internalized belief system and repeat, ad infinitum, and without any kind of support, the circular argument that everything has a purpose, and so must evolution.

Don't you see that you're just spouting whatever random nonsense that comes into your head, without the slightest support in terms of either evidence or logic? Please stop thinking and talking about science or logic, since you clearly know less about either than a child of five might; or else, if you wish to continue with your otherwise laudable effort to compare your native beliefs with what science has to say, then please take the trouble to read up a bit on what you're talking about here (and that you clearly know nothing at all about). Reading people's posts carefully and sincerely and honestly would be a great place for you to start.




*backs away from thread, promising not to post again in this crazy thread, despite knowing, already, that that promise will likely not be kept, but still*

Hello dear and valuable teacher. I really enjoyed reading your message. You reminded me of shocking things. thank you very much. I really did not understand what Dear Pixel meant. I thought they were talking about a causal relationship. And the "circular thinking" that he said, I took the sequence in philosophy. In philosophy, we have the issue of sequence. And in relation to the causality of the sequence is rejected. let's move on. I will not continue this issue anymore. So the circular thinking that Dear Pixel said was meant to be circular thinking to repeat my mistakes. I'm really sorry. I did not understand this reminder instead of them.
You are completely right. I have poor scientific knowledge. I can not correctly state the scientific content of the Qur'an. On the other hand, you are really my teacher scientifically. I really enjoy talking to you. I kiss your face. And the arms of a 5-year-old child inside me are open to learn from you. Tell me. Are these Quranic verses and their scientific contents false? Explain to me. You tell me the main point of his science. I'm ready. My whole being is ready to listen and learn from you. here you are.
I really ask you to help me teach me all the scientific sciences of the Qur'an that I have told you so far. Every single thing I have told you about the Qur'an. And he claims that it is scientific for you to tell the truth. I do not want superstitions and lies. Tell me the essence of the scientific material mentioned in the Qur'an that he claimed. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you. I'm serious. I am ready to learn from you. I accept you. You are my benefactor. I love you all. Tell me the scientific fact of the claims of the Qur'an and God. My mind is tired. But I am always eager to learn science.
Take this message really seriously. I look forward to learning from you. Please clarify my mind again. Please.
Thank you very much.

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Heydarian, This is what you said about the very long list of references to hell in the quran. You tell us it does not mean what it says.

I say it does mean what it says because Muhammad was trying to scare people into following him by threatening them with hell if they did not.

Hello. I said about the Quran. Not my claim. It is claimed by the Quran. But you make your own personal claim. Like the irrelevant poems you said in the previous message. I have reminded you a lot: say everything you say with a documented document. But you do not seem to want to change your wrong approach. I'm sorry for you. You are caught up in the seemingly true thoughts of the "soul". I said in my previous articles. But you did not seem to read. It is not mandatory.
Just hear from me: "The soul is not separate from the body. It has a material reality. It has a place in the genome of the body. It can never be separated from the body. Until death. After man dies, the soul is out with all the bodily information in it. It goes. It does not return at all. Because the soul does not exist without the body. The soul and the angel are of matter and energy. They are in the material world. What is matter and energy like? The soul and the angel are of matter and energy. Their name - their gender - their shape - their feathers and pillows - their appearance are all nonsense. These are just matter and energy. But ... the purgatory that you believe in. Hear from me what purgatory is: purgatory has no external existence. There is no distance between this world and the hereafter. Purgatory is just a name to understand that we are dead. And we are not in the world. It just means that. Purgatory has no external existence. there is nothing. After human death, there is no soul or purgatory. Our structural particles, which are photons (body and soul that are together and not separate), are encoded. And are only saved after death. There is no other process. There is no soul or purgatory. See what science and reality say? Everything that science and reality says is true. I know that you have never seen this in the Qur'an. Take off your petrified and superstitious glasses to see. These are the words of the Qur'an, not the superstitions that you instill in people. These are not verses of torment for you disbelievers of the 2022 century. It was for the infidels of the seventh century. Done. Why do you weave philosophy? Stop lying and stay up to date, man.
Free yourself from superstition." I love you.

[Pixel42]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Quote:

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving";[1] also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.[2] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade. Other ways to express this are that there is no reason to accept the premises unless one already believes the conclusion, or that the premises provide no independent ground or evidence for the conclusion.[3] Begging the question is closely related to circular reasoning, and in modern usage the two generally refer to the same thing.[4]

Circular reasoning is often of the form: "A is true because B is true; B is true because A is true." Circularity can be difficult to detect if it involves a longer chain of propositions

.

Your (erroneous) belief that evolution has a purpose stems directly from your belief in God. There is no scientific justification for it, in fact science tells us the opposite. So you cannot use the fact that (to you at least) evolution appears purposeful as an argument for the existence of God.

"God exists therefore evolution has a purpose", "Evolution has a purpose therefore God exists" is a textbook example of circular reasoning.

[heydarian saeed]

Dear friends, have a good weekend. Have a nice holiday. Let go and be free. Relax and have fun. Take care of your health and that of your dear family. Forget all the words of this group temporarily. And don't think about it at all.
I love you all and kiss you. Bye

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

.

Your (erroneous) belief that evolution has a purpose stems directly from your belief in God. There is no scientific justification for it, in fact science tells us the opposite. So you cannot use the fact that (to you at least) evolution appears purposeful as an argument for the existence of God.

"God exists therefore evolution has a purpose", "Evolution has a purpose therefore God exists" is a textbook example of circular reasoning.

Hello my dear and benevolent friend. I said goodbye and left until next week. But at the last moment I saw your message. I officially apologize to you before you speak. I did not mean by circular thinking. And I said that because of this sequence or philosophical cycle. And I was wrong. I see in this message that you are really my master. And you express very well the circular thinking of philosophy. Thank you very much. You are absolutely right. I totally agree with you. But our dear friend Chanakya also said very important and correct things. I completely agree with you two professors. And I'm ready to learn. Thank you again. Good luck.

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

.

Your (erroneous) belief that evolution has a purpose stems directly from your belief in God. There is no scientific justification for it, in fact science tells us the opposite. So you cannot use the fact that (to you at least) evolution appears purposeful as an argument for the existence of God.

"God exists therefore evolution has a purpose", "Evolution has a purpose therefore God exists" is a textbook example of circular reasoning.

I just read the site you introduced. He is absolutely right. And sequencing in philosophy is a kind of begging. And it is completely rejected. In fact, we have a common understanding with you in this case. Of course, you meant circular thinking in your previous two messages, in fact, my circular mistakes. That I did not realize. And with the message of my dear friend Chanakya, my mind was clarified. Thank you both very much.

[Scorpion]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello. I said about the Quran. Not my claim. It is claimed by the Quran. But you make your own personal claim. Like the irrelevant poems you said in the previous message. I have reminded you a lot: say everything you say with a documented document. But you do not seem to want to change your wrong approach. I'm sorry for you. You are caught up in the seemingly true thoughts of the "soul". I said in my previous articles. But you did not seem to read. It is not mandatory.
Just hear from me: "The soul is not separate from the body. It has a material reality. It has a place in the genome of the body. It can never be separated from the body. Until death. After man dies, the soul is out with all the bodily information in it. It goes. It does not return at all. Because the soul does not exist without the body. The soul and the angel are of matter and energy. They are in the material world. What is matter and energy like? The soul and the angel are of matter and energy. Their name - their gender - their shape - their feathers and pillows - their appearance are all nonsense. These are just matter and energy. But ... the purgatory that you believe in. Hear from me what purgatory is: purgatory has no external existence. There is no distance between this world and the hereafter. Purgatory is just a name to understand that we are dead. And we are not in the world. It just means that. Purgatory has no external existence. there is nothing. After human death, there is no soul or purgatory. Our structural particles, which are photons (body and soul that are together and not separate), are encoded. And are only saved after death. There is no other process. There is no soul or purgatory. See what science and reality say? Everything that science and reality says is true. I know that you have never seen this in the Qur'an. Take off your petrified and superstitious glasses to see. These are the words of the Qur'an, not the superstitions that you instill in people. These are not verses of torment for you disbelievers of the 2022 century. It was for the infidels of the seventh century. Done. Why do you weave philosophy? Stop lying and stay up to date, man.
Free yourself from superstition." I love you.

You are starting to irritate me. Firstly everything you have said in yellow is completely wrong, and it is not from the Quran. Secondly of late you have taken to preaching standard Muslim propaganda. Like Muhammad could not have been the author of the Quran because he was illiterate.
That I have covered in my well researched post 2521 in which I point out that the Quran itself refers to the bible many times. I also state Muhammad had the bible read to him, and there is a hadith that says this.
Then you say no one could write a surah like the Quran, which is another piece of standard Muslim propaganda and nonsense. A ten year old could write a surah equal to the unholy Quran. It is poorly written trash, and to suggest it is so profound that nobody but God could have written it is laughable.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello dear and valuable teacher. I really enjoyed reading your message. You reminded me of shocking things. thank you very much. I really did not understand what Dear Pixel meant. I thought they were talking about a causal relationship. And the "circular thinking" that he said, I took the sequence in philosophy. In philosophy, we have the issue of sequence. And in relation to the causality of the sequence is rejected. let's move on. I will not continue this issue anymore. So the circular thinking that Dear Pixel said was meant to be circular thinking to repeat my mistakes. I'm really sorry. I did not understand this reminder instead of them.
You are completely right. I have poor scientific knowledge. I can not correctly state the scientific content of the Qur'an. On the other hand, you are really my teacher scientifically. I really enjoy talking to you. I kiss your face. And the arms of a 5-year-old child inside me are open to learn from you. Tell me. Are these Quranic verses and their scientific contents false? Explain to me. You tell me the main point of his science. I'm ready. My whole being is ready to listen and learn from you. here you are.
I really ask you to help me teach me all the scientific sciences of the Qur'an that I have told you so far. Every single thing I have told you about the Qur'an. And he claims that it is scientific for you to tell the truth. I do not want superstitions and lies. Tell me the essence of the scientific material mentioned in the Qur'an that he claimed. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you. I'm serious. I am ready to learn from you. I accept you. You are my benefactor. I love you all. Tell me the scientific fact of the claims of the Qur'an and God. My mind is tired. But I am always eager to learn science.
Take this message really seriously. I look forward to learning from you. Please clarify my mind again. Please.
Thank you very much.

Those are pretty words, heydarian, and pretty sentiments, all delivered with an admirably gracious air, and a very admirable reciprocation of asperity with apparent sincerity and humility. It’s exactly the kind of thing that had gotten me to take your side earlier upthread, more than once, and to keep on giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I’m afraid there’s little place for further doubt now, given how this train wreck of a thread has evolved.

You claim, with a beautifully sincere air, that you want to learn from me, from us. And yet all of this huge thread is full of people trying to get you to do just that. In response to which you invariably ignore every single criticism or clarification pointed out to you; or else you twist the words of people to misrepresent them; and then go back to your wild unsupported random preaching.

If you’re serious about wanting to learn, just take at random any two or three consecutive pages of this thread, and honestly and sincerely deal with what people are telling you there. Or else pick any individual poster here --- IanS, for instance, who keeps on spending his time and energy trying to respond to you factually (or Pixel42 for that matter, or just about any of the posters who’ve been contributing substantially here) --- and try to address their recent posts off of the last few pages.

Your talk about wanting to learn things is very sincere-sounding, and very pretty, but I’m afraid your walk doesn’t match it. If you really wish to learn, then what’s stopping you? This huge thread here is full of comments addressing exactly what you’re asking for. You can engage with that whole mass of them, or smaller portions if you wish, any time you want to.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

I just read the site you introduced. He is absolutely right. And sequencing in philosophy is a kind of begging. And it is completely rejected. In fact, we have a common understanding with you in this case. Of course, you meant circular thinking in your previous two messages, in fact, my circular mistakes. That I did not realize. And with the message of my dear friend Chanakya, my mind was clarified. Thank you both very much.

I mean, you can't ask for more gracious than that, can you now?! Cheers, heydarian.

Incidentally, I've no clue about the etymology of that term, but I don't think actual literal "begging" has anything to do with that term. Not that that linguistic issue has anything to do with anything, but still.

Good on you to finally, finally, finally grasp the elementary point that Pixel42 has been so patiently trying to explain to you across so many posts.



So then, do you understand the implications of this exchange of yours with Pixel42? You claimed that evolution is purposeful, as part of your larger claim that evolution has been described/preempted in your Quran --- and that latter, in turn, was part of your central claim that the Quran has preempted a great many scientific discoveries, and that the Quran is divinely inspired and inerrant. Pixel42 challenged you to explain just how it is you conclude that evolution is purposeful, and dissected your responses to show you that your reasoning was circular, and therefore fallacious. As such, that argument of yours fails. Following on that, your views on evolution are shown to be erroneous.

Are you able to clearly acknowledge the above? That that specific argument of yours has been shown to be wrong by Pixel42, and also that that clearly damages your larger argument as well?




And that is how it's been with practically every claim you've made here. Like I said, if you really want to, then, instead of asking for people to keep posting explanations for you, that you then go on to ignore or to misrepresent, you could instead go back and sincerely engage with the posts already made. A great many factual and very painstakingly presented explanations have been posted by people like IanS, as well as by many others, including Pixel42. That you've chosen not to sincerely engage with any of these posts made for your benefit, is something that has stood out in this thread. Why you did that isn't clear, and we've had no option but to see this as disingenuousness. You're free to rectify that, and go back and engage with those posts, any time you want.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello dear and valuable teacher. I really enjoyed reading your message. You reminded me of shocking things. thank you very much. I really did not understand what Dear Pixel meant. I thought they were talking about a causal relationship. And the "circular thinking" that he said, I took the sequence in philosophy. In philosophy, we have the issue of sequence. And in relation to the causality of the sequence is rejected. let's move on. I will not continue this issue anymore. So the circular thinking that Dear Pixel said was meant to be circular thinking to repeat my mistakes. I'm really sorry. I did not understand this reminder instead of them.

You are completely right. I have poor scientific knowledge. I can not correctly state the scientific content of the Qur'an .

On the other hand, you are really my teacher scientifically. I really enjoy talking to you. I kiss your face. And the arms of a 5-year-old child inside me are open to learn from you. Tell me. Are these Quranic verses and their scientific contents false? Explain to me. You tell me the main point of his science. I'm ready. My whole being is read y to listen and learn from you. here you are.

I really ask you to help me teach me all the scientific sciences of the Qur'an that I have told you so far.

Every single thing I have told you about the Qur'an. And he claims that it is scientific for you to tell the truth. I do not want superstitions and lies. Tell me the essence of the scientific material mentioned in the Qur'an that he claimed. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you.

I'm serious. I am ready to learn from you. I accept you. You are my benefactor. I love you all. Tell me the scientific fact of the claims of the Qur'an and God. My mind is tired. But I am always eager to learn science.
Take this message really seriously. I look forward to learning from you. Please clarify my mind again. Please.
Thank you very much.

In your post above you are repeatedly asking Chanakya (and maybe asking others here) to help teach you about science, because you also said right at the start that you “have poor scientific knowledge".... But every time you repeated that request, you added a specific rule which you insist that Chanakya must follow! You asked him to teach you only about what you claim to be words of science IN THE QURAN! …

… in other words you are insisting that your science teacher must only teach you that the Quran contains all the scientific beliefs that you have already claimed here!

That would not be teaching you any real science. That would be someone instructed by you, to teach only that the Quran contains modern science!

But of course as everyone here knows, and as all of published science shows, the Quran contains no such scientific descriptions whatsoever. None. Not a single one. Whereas you insist that if anyone tries to teach you about science then your rule is that they must always use the Quran! … and they must only say that words like “sky” and “lights” and “mud” mean quantum physics and evolution etc.

I'm sorry to point this out to you, but everyone here can see that those sort of requests from you are simply dishonest.

If you truly wanted to know whether or not the Quran contains any description of (just for example) human evolution, then you would look at published research papers on human evolution, or more simply just get a few books on human evolution from authors who are genuine independent research scientists, and see if you can find anywhere in any of those papers or books where any actual expert scientist says that evolution was described in the Quran 1300 years before Darwin … can you find any books or papers or real scientists saying that? … the answer is, No! …. No, there are no real papers, books or scientists claiming anything remotely like that …

… the only people who claim, as you do, that the Quran does actually describe evolution (or quantum theory, or relativity, or neutron stars, or black holes etc.), are Islamic religious fundamentalists on the Internet!

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

STOP THIS THREAD NOW !

Lets turn it into a competition to write a surah like the Quran.

Heydarian says it cannot be done, because the Quran says so. He said it is so profound it must be a message from God. Lets prove him wrong and write surahs like the Quran.
I already posted one at post 2520 but that was satirical. I can do a serious attempt too.

I challenge the forum members to produce a surah of their own.

I like this idea, but I think it needs some qualification.
Muslim zealots often claim that the surahs of the Qur'an are such that no-one else could produce anything similar. However, I have never seen any details of exactly what the qualities of these verses are, that are supposedly so great.
If heydarian was able to state what elements of these verses are so impressive, it might help. Is it the use of simile or metaphor? Descriptive language? Use of poetic devices such as alliteration or assonance? Rhythm? The expression of ideas previously unknown and unknowable? What, exactly, is so great about the surahs?
If we knew that, it would add credence to this claim, and also better define the parameters of any attempts to write our own comparable verses.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

I like this idea, but I think it needs some qualification.
Muslim zealots often claim that the surahs of the Qur'an are such that no-one else could produce anything similar. However, I have never seen any details of exactly what the qualities of these verses are, that are supposedly so great.
If heydarian was able to state what elements of these verses are so impressive, it might help. Is it the use of simile or metaphor? Descriptive language? Use of poetic devices such as alliteration or assonance? Rhythm? The expression of ideas previously unknown and unknowable? What, exactly, is so great about the surahs?
If we knew that, it would add credence to this claim, and also better define the parameters of any attempts to write our own comparable verses.

There was a short thread years ago about the supposed quality of Quranic verses based on the dense use of a wide variety literary and poetic devices. When one looks for them hard enough they're easy to find... in just about any poetic text. I used an example from an Al Stewart song for comparison against the Quranic example that was claimed.

Here's that thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=253905

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Which bit is wrong? You can't just declare that I'm wrong without explaining it Heydarian.

Again Heydarian, all you've done is tell me I'm wrong but nt explained how I'm wrong let alone why.

[Scorpion]

Originally Posted by Myriad

There was a short thread years ago about the supposed quality of Quranic verses based on the dense use of a wide variety literary and poetic devices. When one looks for them hard enough they're easy to find... in just about any poetic text. I used an example from an Al Stewart song for comparison against the Quranic example that was claimed.

Here's that thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=253905

Yea ! rhyming verses are easy to achieve, here is a poem I wrote called praise Allah. It could have been written as a numbered surah, but I don't want to change it.


Praise Allah

Praised be to Allah, the creator of all worlds,
Praise him for the desert, with its endless sea of dunes.
The only things to eat, bushes with spiky thorns,
The Sun a burning orb, to dry and bleach your bones.

Praise Allah for the mirage, of water that is not there,
Without such visions to lead them, many would despair.
But the mirage in the distance gives men strength to go on,
Even though when they arrive there, the oasis is gone.

No wonder dusty Arabs dream of gently flowing streams,
They read of Allah's heaven, and see it in their dreams.
They read of fruit trees laden, with the branches hanging low,
With youths to wait upon them, even thought it is not so.

Praise Allah for the camel, the walking desert ship,
Praise him for two hump camels, with a place to sit.
Praise him for one hump camels, that can carry slaves,
Sliding up and down the hump, destined for early graves.

Praise Allah for the cattle, and praise him for the Goats,
And praise him for instructions, in how to cut their throats.
Praise him for the science that created the first tent,
Saving Arabs from the sandstorms, which are often sent.

Most of all praise Allah for the many rules of war,
And clear instructions, in how to settle every score.
Praise Allah for the sword, to strike unworthy necks,
And his curse on unbelievers, so they may all be vexed.

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Translation software?

Hi
The problem is not just your English language. I will try harder to reduce this problem. The most important problem is your culture and customs. Which I do not understand at all. Some friends use metaphors and names that I do not understand at all.
I may sometimes use terms or tones in my speech that you do not understand. If you have been disrespected, I apologize to all my friends. Please help me in this regard. Thanks a lot

[heydarian saeed]

Hi Scorpion; Your brazen and blatant insults to the sacred: God - the Qur'an and Muhammad do not fit your character. You believe in God. So your behavior is strange. Apart from God, one billion and two hundred million zealous Muslims see you.
Do you want to promote the culture of terrorism by inciting them? Say later that Muslims are terrorists. This is a very ugly approach. So put it aside. And correct yourself.
God has created many scorpions. Each of them has its own special bite. As well as its own poison. No matter. We are all servants of God. And the fate of each is determined by God. So pay attention to your own destiny.
The presence of God is important to you. Do not look at religions and holy books. Each of these was brought at a specific time by certain people (God's prophets).
And certain people agree with that. Like me being a Muslim. The important thing is that we all share with you in belief in God. I have said many times: Hostility - war - ridicule - ugly behavior and words and fear is not defined for me at all.
If I see it somewhere or in someone, I pass it. And I will not stop. There are more important things that are worth moving. Perhaps the misbehavior of some people is due to ignorance - prejudice or pride. They want opportunities. I hope they understand. And change. Therefore, I will not preach or advise them. I only express my opinions freely.
Forget Norsi Saeed. Be sure that I am Heydarian Saeed. Do not judge by the cover of the book. I recommend referring to the meaning of my name and surname. I always laugh. And everyone around me sees me calmly.
Because I tame the universe. But inside me is a brave and victorious attacking lion. Rest assured, I will not ring the bell to leave this group. I always feel like I'm in the classroom.
I see you as a friend. I do not care about your mission. It is important to me that: Anx who is not on us (our enemy) is with us. (Matthew 26/50) God bless you

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
The problem is not just your English language. I will try harder to reduce this problem. The most important problem is your culture and customs. Which I do not understand at all. Some friends use metaphors and names that I do not understand at all.
I may sometimes use terms or tones in my speech that you do not understand. If you have been disrespected, I apologize to all my friends. Please help me in this regard. Thanks a lot

Nope. The problem is not language at all. We can sort that out.

The real problem is your dishonesty. Remember your first post? No?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
I did some research in the lab to prove the supernatural and I am attaching a written article Please read and comment I answered

And it turns out you have no lab and did no research. When you start off with honking great porky pies, why should anyone believe a word you say?

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi Scorpion; Your brazen and blatant insults to the sacred: God - the Qur'an and Muhammad

It's not an insult to point out the simple facts which suggest that the book you choose to believe is sacred is offensive and nonsensical. Scorpion evidently thinks that it's you and your ghastly book which are insulting what he holds sacred, and he makes a very good case for thinking so.

[Scorpion]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi Scorpion; Your brazen and blatant insults to the sacred: God - the Qur'an and Muhammad do not fit your character. You believe in God. So your behavior is strange. Apart from God, one billion and two hundred million zealous Muslims see you.
Do you want to promote the culture of terrorism by inciting them? Say later that Muslims are terrorists. This is a very ugly approach. So put it aside. And correct yourself.
God has created many scorpions. Each of them has its own special bite. As well as its own poison. No matter. We are all servants of God. And the fate of each is determined by God. So pay attention to your own destiny.
The presence of God is important to you. Do not look at religions and holy books. Each of these was brought at a specific time by certain people (God's prophets).
And certain people agree with that. Like me being a Muslim. The important thing is that we all share with you in belief in God. I have said many times: Hostility - war - ridicule - ugly behavior and words and fear is not defined for me at all.
If I see it somewhere or in someone, I pass it. And I will not stop. There are more important things that are worth moving. Perhaps the misbehavior of some people is due to ignorance - prejudice or pride. They want opportunities. I hope they understand. And change. Therefore, I will not preach or advise them. I only express my opinions freely.
Forget Norsi Saeed. Be sure that I am Heydarian Saeed. Do not judge by the cover of the book. I recommend referring to the meaning of my name and surname. I always laugh. And everyone around me sees me calmly.
Because I tame the universe. But inside me is a brave and victorious attacking lion. Rest assured, I will not ring the bell to leave this group. I always feel like I'm in the classroom.
I see you as a friend. I do not care about your mission. It is important to me that: Anx who is not on us (our enemy) is with us. (Matthew 26/50) God bless you

As far as I am concerned it is the Quran that is an insult to God. It is a book of evil lies about him, and some verses are as if it were God speaking in the first person. In my first poem on post number 2545 I wrote it as God speaking in the first person and that is the kind of thing I would expect God to say if he were actually to speak to someone. But the God I believe in does not speak to mortals. he is an ocean of consciousness that set into motion a perfect plan to allow us to grow and spiritually evolve at our own speed over many incarnations. It needs no intervention and I am certain God had nothing to do with the Quran, or the bible either.

As for 1.2 billion Muslims I thought there were 1.8 billion. But I doubt they all read this forum. I can imagine how mad some of them would get if they did as raging mobs often kill people for blasphemy in places like Pakistan.

As far as I am concerned, anything I can do to undermine, and help stamp out Islam will be progress, and maybe Muslims will revert to Christianity.
Imagine how much better the world would have been without Muhammad's lies. The middle east would probably be Christian, and there would have been far less wars.

You are right Scorpions sting and that is why I picked the name, but I soon found you cannot attack people on this forum. So I moderate myself.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

Yea ! rhyming verses are easy to achieve, here is a poem I wrote called praise Allah. It could have been written as a numbered surah, but I don't want to change it.


Praise Allah

Praised be to Allah, the creator of all worlds,
Praise him for the desert, with its endless sea of dunes.
The only things to eat, bushes with spiky thorns,
The Sun a burning orb, to dry and bleach your bones.

Praise Allah for the mirage, of water that is not there,
Without such visions to lead them, many would despair.
But the mirage in the distance gives men strength to go on,
Even though when they arrive there, the oasis is gone.

No wonder dusty Arabs dream of gently flowing streams,
They read of Allah's heaven, and see it in their dreams.
They read of fruit trees laden, with the branches hanging low,
With youths to wait upon them, even thought it is not so.

Praise Allah for the camel, the walking desert ship,
Praise him for two hump camels, with a place to sit.
Praise him for one hump camels, that can carry slaves,
Sliding up and down the hump, destined for early graves.

Praise Allah for the cattle, and praise him for the Goats,
And praise him for instructions, in how to cut their throats.
Praise him for the science that created the first tent,
Saving Arabs from the sandstorms, which are often sent.

Most of all praise Allah for the many rules of war,
And clear instructions, in how to settle every score.
Praise Allah for the sword, to strike unworthy necks,
And his curse on unbelievers, so they may all be vexed.

That's brilliant, Scorpion! Had me lol-ing away there. Although you kind of run out of steam towards the end, but I think I'm going to nom this up.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
The problem is not just your English language. I will try harder to reduce this problem. The most important problem is your culture and customs. Which I do not understand at all. Some friends use metaphors and names that I do not understand at all.
I may sometimes use terms or tones in my speech that you do not understand. If you have been disrespected, I apologize to all my friends. Please help me in this regard. Thanks a lot

That was just a joke, or at least an attempt at one, following on the posts immediately preceding.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

As far as I am concerned it is the Quran that is an insult to God. It is a book of evil lies about him, and some verses are as if it were God speaking in the first person. In my first poem on post number 2545 I wrote it as God speaking in the first person and that is the kind of thing I would expect God to say if he were actually to speak to someone. But the God I believe in does not speak to mortals. he is an ocean of consciousness that set into motion a perfect plan to allow us to grow and spiritually evolve at our own speed over many incarnations. It needs no intervention and I am certain God had nothing to do with the Quran, or the bible either.

As for 1.2 billion Muslims I thought there were 1.8 billion. But I doubt they all read this forum. I can imagine how mad some of them would get if they did as raging mobs often kill people for blasphemy in places like Pakistan.

As far as I am concerned, anything I can do to undermine, and help stamp out Islam will be progress, and maybe Muslims will revert to Christianity.
Imagine how much better the world would have been without Muhammad's lies. The middle east would probably be Christian, and there would have been far less wars.

You are right Scorpions sting and that is why I picked the name, but I soon found you cannot attack people on this forum. So I moderate myself.

Don't really want to dilute the focus here away from what this thread's about, but WHAT?!!!

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Don't really want to dilute the focus here away from what this thread's about, but WHAT?!!!

The idea that fewer religions means fewer religious wars is hard to justify, given how keen followers of slightly different flavours of the same religion have historically been to kill each other. Protestant v Catholic, Sunni v Shia, they seem to hate each other as much, if not more, than they hate the followers of other religions.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

The idea that fewer religions means fewer religious wars is hard to justify, given how keen followers of slightly different flavours of the same religion have historically been to kill each other. Protestant v Catholic, Sunni v Shia, they seem to hate each other as much, if not more, than they hate the followers of other religions.

Absolutely!

And in any case, who's to decide which that winner-take-all religion is to be? Heydarian may well respond to this, and not without justification, by pointing out that if all Christians were converted to Islam, whether by argument or at the point of a sword, then that too would result in lesser strife (should we grant Scorpion's implicit premise that fewer religions equals lesser strife).

Like I said, I don't want to derail this thread away, but this line of argument is totally indefensible.

[MarkCorrigan]

The Quran is monstrous, just like the Bible.

[Thor 2]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

As far as I am concerned it is the Quran that is an insult to God. It is a book of evil lies about him, and some verses are as if it were God speaking in the first person. In my first poem on post number 2545 I wrote it as God speaking in the first person and that is the kind of thing I would expect God to say if he were actually to speak to someone. But the God I believe in does not speak to mortals. he is an ocean of consciousness that set into motion a perfect plan to allow us to grow and spiritually evolve at our own speed over many incarnations. It needs no intervention and I am certain God had nothing to do with the Quran, or the bible either.

As for 1.2 billion Muslims I thought there were 1.8 billion. But I doubt they all read this forum. I can imagine how mad some of them would get if they did as raging mobs often kill people for blasphemy in places like Pakistan.

As far as I am concerned, anything I can do to undermine, and help stamp out Islam will be progress, and maybe Muslims will revert to Christianity.
Imagine how much better the world would have been without Muhammad's lies. The middle east would probably be Christian, and there would have been far less wars.

You are right Scorpions sting and that is why I picked the name, but I soon found you cannot attack people on this forum. So I moderate myself.

Go for it Scorpion!

Nothing is sweeter for an atheist like me than seeing theists, of different colours, at each others throats - figuratively speaking, as I would not get pleasure in seeing bloodshed. There has been too much of that already.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Go for it Scorpion!

Nothing is sweeter for an atheist like me than seeing theists, of different colours, at each others throats - figuratively speaking, as I would not get pleasure in seeing bloodshed. There has been too much of that already.

I think it's unfortunate that the same term "theism" is used to describe both Scorpion's belief in an ambient consciousness that underlies reality but never communicates with humans, and Heydarian's belief in an unquestionable source of the dictates of a particular prophet. Of course technically they both fit the definition of theism, but they're in direct contradiction to one another, not in mere details (such as the name of the deity or which are the truer scriptures) but in the entire import of the narrative. The idea that Scorpion and Heydarian are merely "of different colors" is just as much of an understatement as for instance if Heydarian were to call Scorpion and atheists mere "different colors" of his opponents who after all all agree that no gods communicate with humans.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Myriad

I think it's unfortunate that the same term "theism" is used to describe both Scorpion's belief in an ambient consciousness that underlies reality but never communicates with humans, and Heydarian's belief in an unquestionable source of the dictates of a particular prophet. Of course technically they both fit the definition of theism, but they're in direct contradiction to one another, not in mere details (such as the name of the deity or which are the truer scriptures) but in the entire import of the narrative. The idea that Scorpion and Heydarian are merely "of different colors" is just as much of an understatement as for instance if Heydarian were to call Scorpion and atheists mere "different colors" of his opponents who after all all agree that no gods communicate with humans.

To be fair, I did PM Scorpion to recommend that while he was doing a stand out job dismantling Heydarians wild claims, he would be best served by not chucking his own claims into the mix.

And he has restrained, fair play to him.

He obviously knows his onions when it comes to the koran and hadith. I have read them myself, but they were so forgetable that I couldn't quote them.

[Thor 2]

Originally Posted by abaddon

To be fair, I did PM Scorpion to recommend that while he was doing a stand out job dismantling Heydarians wild claims, he would be best served by not chucking his own claims into the mix.

And he has restrained, fair play to him.

He obviously knows his onions when it comes to the koran and hadith. I have read them myself, but they were so forgetable that I couldn't quote them.

Well said!

Kudos to Scorpion for his restraint although he did say this: "I am certain God had nothing to do with the Quran, or the bible either."

We have seen Scorpion describe in some detail his own "beliefs" in other places and he has been flayed for these by many others. Some of the stuff about children's need to suffer is nausea inducing.

I think a theist is a theist is a theist if he ... she ... it speaks from text created by some external force, or conjures it up in their own head. Regardless of Myriad's straw splitting.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Well said!

Thanks, I guess, but the cred belongs to Scorpion, not me.

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Kudos to Scorpion for his restraint although he did say this: "I am certain God had nothing to do with the Quran, or the bible either."

He has his own threads to discuss whatever he belives. Do I expect perfection? Nope. I just ladled out some friendly advice. That is all.

Originally Posted by Thor 2

We have seen Scorpion describe in some detail his own "beliefs" in other places and he has been flayed for these by many others. Some of the stuff about children's need to suffer is nausea inducing.

Sure. But those have threads of their own. We can discuss those in their respective threads. We have threads for that. My point here in this thread is that Scorpion has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of islam, koran, hadith and whatnot. I have read the lot and I could not dredge up the citations he does.

Originally Posted by Thor 2

I think a theist is a theist is a theist if he ... she ... it speaks from text created by some external force, or conjures it up in their own head. Regardless of Myriad's straw splitting.

Hard to say. I didn't set out to somehow "teach" my kids to be atheists. They got there all of their lonesome. I find myself saying "You did a who in the what now?" so often that it has become a goto phrase. They astonish me all the time. And it is fantastic.

[heydarian saeed]

Hello to all dear friends
Given that Scorpion created a conference in this group so that anyone can bring a verse like the Quran. I do not try to challenge them. I just recommend that you keep the following in mind:

1- The Qur'an has been revealed in Arabic. Therefore, in order to bring a verse like the Qur'an, you must definitely speak in Arabic. So work in this area. In other words, it is not acceptable at all.
Because it is just a translation into another language. The Qur'an says, "Bring a verse just like me, if you are right." So be careful. Do not try in vain. Your only attempt is to bring a verse like the Qur'an itself.
Like these two verses from the Qur'an: Sura 53 verse 1 - وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى Translate: I swear to the star when it is destroyed. (Black holes in space)
Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)
2- Scorpion wrote poems for us here, thinking that the verse of the Qur'an says so. These are just English translations for the Qur'an. I have told you an up-to-date and completely scientific translation and interpretation of the Qur'an according to modern science in this group in English.
Scientific translation and interpretation, according to what I have said, has not yet been said anywhere in the world. If you know anything about this, let us see. And reject my claim.
3- I suggest you: Get help from all the Arabic language scholars who are completely fluent in Arabic to recite a verse like the Quran in Arabic. If you could bring it to see. I am waiting.
4- The Qur'an itself answers you in two verses for your attempt to bring a verse like it. Read carefully so that your efforts are not in vain: Sura 2 verses 23 and 24
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then if you are truthful, bring a surah (even a verse) like it, and call on your witnesses and helpers other than God to help you.
So if you did not do this and you can never do it. From the fire that fuel people and stones. And it is prepared for the disbelievers, So stay away.
Good luck to all of you. Waiting

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Nope. The problem is not language at all. We can sort that out.

The real problem is your dishonesty. Remember your first post? No?


And it turns out you have no lab and did no research. When you start off with honking great porky pies, why should anyone believe a word you say?

Hello. Yes. My first post was to ask you for help. Let me give you an article to prove the supernatural. And Pixel guided me. honestly. And ... I did not say that I want to prove it to you in the laboratory. By the way, after finishing my article in the next posts, I told you that the supernatural is not in the realm of our understanding and science. In the Qur'an, he does not deal with the subject of the supernatural at all. Therefore, research on it is excluded. If you think about my work: In fact, I did something to remove the topic of supernatural discussion and proof from your forum. And has no answer. In fact, I helped you a lot in this regard. I am the main winner of the $ 1 million prize of your association. Think well. I already have ideas to answer many of the problems of religious people by quoting the Qur'an.
To breathe easy from the superstitious religious objections. I am a great help to your community. I can give the answer to superstitious religions by quoting the Qur'an, which is acceptable to them. I am a great help to your community of infidels. Think well. The answer to your Superstitious religious problems is with the Qur'an. And I know ....

[heydarian saeed]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

The Quran is monstrous, just like the Bible.

Hello. Maybe. But it only devours the fanatics ... Are you a fanatic? So wait ...

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello. Yes. My first post was to ask you for help. Let me give you an article to prove the supernatural. And Pixel guided me. honestly. And ... I did not say that I want to prove it to you in the laboratory.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
I did some research in the lab to prove the supernatural and I am attaching a written article Please read and comment I answered

heydarian, stop lying.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello. Yes. My first post was to ask you for help. Let me give you an article to prove the supernatural. And Pixel guided me. honestly. And ... I did not say that I want to prove it to you in the laboratory.

No, you said that you had already done the research in a laboratory:

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
I did some research in the lab to prove the supernatural and I am attaching a written article Please read and comment I answered

That was a lie, wasn’t it?

Quote:

By the way, after finishing my article in the next posts, I told you that the supernatural is not in the realm of our understanding and science. In the Qur'an, he does not deal with the subject of the supernatural at all. Therefore, research on it is excluded. If you think about my work: In fact, I did something to remove the topic of supernatural discussion and proof from your forum. And has no answer. In fact, I helped you a lot in this regard. I am the main winner of the $ 1 million prize of your association.

Another blatant porkie.

Quote:

Think well. I already have ideas to answer many of the problems of religious people by quoting the Qur'an.
To breathe easy from the superstitious religious objections. I am a great help to your community.

Nope.

Quote:

I can give the answer to superstitious religions by quoting the Qur'an, which is acceptable to them. I am a great help to your community of infidels. Think well. The answer to your Superstitious religious problems is with the Qur'an. And I know ....

You’re trying to combat superstition with lies and more superstition.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello to all dear friends
Given that Scorpion created a conference in this group so that anyone can bring a verse like the Quran. I do not try to challenge them. I just recommend that you keep the following in mind:

we are not your friends, nor ever have been. Because you casually lie and we all know it.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

1- The Qur'an has been revealed in Arabic. Therefore, in order to bring a verse like the Qur'an, you must definitely speak in Arabic. So work in this area. In other words, it is not acceptable at all.
Because it is just a translation into another language. The Qur'an says, "Bring a verse just like me, if you are right." So be careful. Do not try in vain. Your only attempt is to bring a verse like the Qur'an itself.

Gibberish snipped.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

2- Scorpion wrote poems for us here, thinking that the verse of the Qur'an says so.

Nope. Scorpion wrote quite eloquently. And you are unable to match it. Thus you have no choice but to further reveal how little education you have. I may not agree with Scorpion on many things, but when he is right, he is right.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

These are just English translations for the Qur'an.

And here we go with this tired claim. We all have to read it in the original Arabic, right? Yet here you are handing us english translations. How does that work?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

I have told you an up-to-date and completely scientific translation and interpretation of the Qur'an according to modern science in this group in English.

Nope. You made a bunch of crap up and lied to us from the outset. Do you not remember your opening post?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Scientific translation and interpretation, according to what I have said, has not yet been said anywhere in the world. If you know anything about this, let us see.

And rejecting my claim is utter bollocks. You have no evidence scientific or otherwise.

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

3- I suggest you: Get help from all the Arabic language scholars who are completely fluent in Arabic to recite a verse like the Quran in Arabic. If you could bring it to see. I am waiting.

But you are not waiting. If you were waiting why would you still be posting this garbage?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

4- The Qur'an itself answers you in two verses for your attempt to bring a verse like it. Read carefully so that your efforts are not in vain: Sura 2 verses 23 and 24
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then if you are truthful, bring a surah (even a verse) like it, and call on your witnesses and helpers other than God to help you.
So if you did not do this and you can never do it. From the fire that fuel people and stones. And it is prepared for the disbelievers, So stay away.
Good luck to all of you. Waiting

Why should I care about such superstitious nonsense? Tuatha De Danann were around among my people long before your child molester. Your prophet Mo would have been strung up in short order. It's a cultural thing. Pedos do not go to court, they get quietly dead. A few slip through the cracks. But you have a double problem. Islam want's you dead as well as a heretic. That has to be a bucket of fun.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello to all dear friends
Given that Scorpion created a conference in this group so that anyone can bring a verse like the Quran. I do not try to challenge them. I just recommend that you keep the following in mind:

1- The Qur'an has been revealed in Arabic. Therefore, in order to bring a verse like the Qur'an, you must definitely speak in Arabic. So work in this area. In other words, it is not acceptable at all.
Because it is just a translation into another language. The Qur'an says, "Bring a verse just like me, if you are right." So be careful. Do not try in vain. Your only attempt is to bring a verse like the Qur'an itself.
Like these two verses from the Qur'an: Sura 53 verse 1 - وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى Translate: I swear to the star when it is destroyed. (Black holes in space)
Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)
2- Scorpion wrote poems for us here, thinking that the verse of the Qur'an says so. These are just English translations for the Qur'an. I have told you an up-to-date and completely scientific translation and interpretation of the Qur'an according to modern science in this group in English.
Scientific translation and interpretation, according to what I have said, has not yet been said anywhere in the world. If you know anything about this, let us see. And reject my claim.
3- I suggest you: Get help from all the Arabic language scholars who are completely fluent in Arabic to recite a verse like the Quran in Arabic. If you could bring it to see. I am waiting.
4- The Qur'an itself answers you in two verses for your attempt to bring a verse like it. Read carefully so that your efforts are not in vain: Sura 2 verses 23 and 24
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then if you are truthful, bring a surah (even a verse) like it, and call on your witnesses and helpers other than God to help you.
So if you did not do this and you can never do it. From the fire that fuel people and stones. And it is prepared for the disbelievers, So stay away.
Good luck to all of you. Waiting

That is not the ringing endorsement you think it is.
A true message from god would be peerless regardless of what language it is translated into.
Then again, a true religion would not need to be enforced by law and threats of retaliation, nor would it seek to prohibit discussion or attempts at conversion, as it would be so self-evidently true none would ever renounce their faith one way or the other.
Yet all Islamic states use force of law and threats of violence to keep people to their faith.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello to all dear friends
Given that Scorpion created a conference in this group so that anyone can bring a verse like the Quran. I do not try to challenge them. I just recommend that you keep the following in mind:

1- The Qur'an has been revealed in Arabic. Therefore, in order to bring a verse like the Qur'an, you must definitely speak in Arabic. So work in this area. In other words, it is not acceptable at all.
Because it is just a translation into another language. The Qur'an says, "Bring a verse just like me, if you are right." So be careful. Do not try in vain. Your only attempt is to bring a verse like the Qur'an itself.
Like these two verses from the Qur'an: Sura 53 verse 1 - وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى Translate: I swear to the star when it is destroyed. (Black holes in space)
Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)
2- Scorpion wrote poems for us here, thinking that the verse of the Qur'an says so. These are just English translations for the Qur'an. I have told you an up-to-date and completely scientific translation and interpretation of the Qur'an according to modern science in this group in English.
Scientific translation and interpretation, according to what I have said, has not yet been said anywhere in the world. If you know anything about this, let us see. And reject my claim.
3- I suggest you: Get help from all the Arabic language scholars who are completely fluent in Arabic to recite a verse like the Quran in Arabic. If you could bring it to see. I am waiting.
4- The Qur'an itself answers you in two verses for your attempt to bring a verse like it. Read carefully so that your efforts are not in vain: Sura 2 verses 23 and 24
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then if you are truthful, bring a surah (even a verse) like it, and call on your witnesses and helpers other than God to help you.
So if you did not do this and you can never do it. From the fire that fuel people and stones. And it is prepared for the disbelievers, So stay away.
Good luck to all of you. Waiting

It doesn’t say “black holes in space” or “white holes in space”, though, does it? Those are just phrases you’ve added to the translation.

Incidentally, black holes are not “holes in space”, so the language you are trying to shoehorn into the Quran is another abject failure on your part.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Mojo

It doesn’t say “black holes in space” or “white holes in space”, though, does it? Those are just phrases you’ve added to the translation.

Incidentally, black holes are not “holes in space”, so the language you are trying to shoehorn into the Quran is another abject failure on your part.

It is kind of amusing though if one goes back to post 1. Heydarian just lied in post 1, and then continued on lying. Lest anyone forget, what actually was post 1? anyone recall at this point? It was this...

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hi
I did some research in the lab to prove the supernatural and I am attaching a written article Please read and comment I answered

He has no lab, did no research, proved nothing, posted a lame poll and claims victory. Since that stupid claim, all anyone can get is wild claims from a magic book.

WTF? shall we do with that nonsense idea.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello to all dear friends
Given that Scorpion created a conference in this group so that anyone can bring a verse like the Quran. I do not try to challenge them. I just recommend that you keep the following in mind:

1- The Qur'an has been revealed in Arabic. Therefore, in order to bring a verse like the Qur'an, you must definitely speak in Arabic. So work in this area. In other words, it is not acceptable at all.
Because it is just a translation into another language. The Qur'an says, "Bring a verse just like me, if you are right." So be careful. Do not try in vain. Your only attempt is to bring a verse like the Qur'an itself.
Like these two verses from the Qur'an: Sura 53 verse 1 - وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى Translate: I swear to the star when it is destroyed. (Black holes in space)
Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)
2- Scorpion wrote poems for us here, thinking that the verse of the Qur'an says so. These are just English translations for the Qur'an. I have told you an up-to-date and completely scientific translation and interpretation of the Qur'an according to modern science in this group in English.
Scientific translation and interpretation, according to what I have said, has not yet been said anywhere in the world. If you know anything about this, let us see. And reject my claim.
3- I suggest you: Get help from all the Arabic language scholars who are completely fluent in Arabic to recite a verse like the Quran in Arabic. If you could bring it to see. I am waiting.
4- The Qur'an itself answers you in two verses for your attempt to bring a verse like it. Read carefully so that your efforts are not in vain: Sura 2 verses 23 and 24
And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then if you are truthful, bring a surah (even a verse) like it, and call on your witnesses and helpers other than God to help you.
So if you did not do this and you can never do it. From the fire that fuel people and stones. And it is prepared for the disbelievers, So stay away.
Good luck to all of you. Waiting

This has now turned into outright lying and dishonesty from a poster who says he will never stop doing it and will spam this forum with masses of it for ever.

Firstly, on the claim that we must all speak fluent Arabic before we have any right to reject his claims of scientific revelation in the Quran - if heydarian is going to try playing that language/race card, then any of us here might just as well dismiss everything he ever says by telling him that modern science published in the English language shows conclusively that there are no such scientific descriptions in the Quran, and that heydarian needs to be a fluent native speaker of English before he can understand why his beliefs about his holy book have been proved wrong.

But secondly - heydarian is repeatedly, and always, using translations claimed by the I'jazz fundamentalists, to claim that various perfectly ordinary words and sentences mean something revealed by science, but he's doing that when all other translations prior to this idea of "Ijazz revelation" had the words and sentences with entirely ordinary meaning and not with any such scientific content. For example heydarian specifically makes the claim for Sura 53 verse 1, but if you look at the link below then you find the usual translation of that verse is as follows -

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightenin...53-verses-1-32

1. By the star when it goes down.

And in the above linked article, it explains that the above sentence about a "Star" is linked to the next sentence which translates as -

2. Indeed, your companion [Prophet Muhammad (S)] has neither gone astray nor has erred

So what do sentences 1 and 2 actually mean? What are they referring to? Well, frankly, anyone could make-up numerous claims about what such vague metaphorical-type sentences might ever have meant, but according to that above link, here is a full account of what can be said about those two verses -

1. By the star when it goes down.
2. Indeed, your companion [Prophet Muhammad (S)] has neither gone astray nor has erred.

The Chapter opens with the word najm "star" by which God Almighty swears

("By the star when it goes down").

Exegetes provide many a view regarding the contextual meaning of the word. Some maintain that it makes a reference to the Holy Qur’an since such connotation is consistent with the following blessed Verses regarding Divine Revelation.

They hold that the expression alludes to the Arab's practice of terming as star what develops in time at different intervals.

Since the Holy Qur’an was revealed to the Noble Prophet (S) in a period of twenty three years at different intervals, it is referred to as 'star' and the expression:

"when it goes down"

makes a reference to its Revelation to the pure heart of the Messenger of Allah (S). However, some other exegetes maintain that it alludes to a star like Pleiades or Jupiter since they are of particular significance.

Some also hold that:

"the star"

refers to meteors through which devils are repelled from the heaven and Arabs term such meteors as najm.

However, no evident argument has been provided for any of the four interpretations, but the blessed Verse, as far as the application of the word,

"the star"

requires, serves as an oath to all the stars reflecting Divine Manifestations of God Almighty, the great mysteries of the world of creation, and the extraordinarily great creatures created by Allah. Swearing by the great creatures of the world of creation like the sun and the moon are attested elsewhere in the Holy Qur’an.

The ascent of the stars are more remarkable, but the emphasis laid on their "going down" is owing to the fact that their descent bears witness to their temporal contingence (huduth) and the negation of star worshippers beliefs.

Thus, God Almighty alludes to both the ascent and descent of stars, since such allusion substantiates their temporal contingence and their being checked by the laws of creation.

It is worthy of note that the inner, rather than the outer, meaning of the Verse as attested in traditions, is taken by some exegetes to allude to the Noble Prophet (S) and accordingly,

"going down"

refers to his descent from the heaven on the night of Ascent.


Now, let us turn toward the reason lying behind the oath.

The blessed second Verse thus expounds that your companion, Prophet Muhammad (S) has never gone astray nor has he been in error,

("Indeed, your companion [Prophet Muhammad (S)] has neither gone astray nor has erred").

He always treads the Path of Truth and the slightest error may not be found in his words and deeds.

The word:

"companion" (sahib)

may indicate that what he says is out of his compassion and love for you.

Many an exegete draw no distinction between the Arabic past tense forms dhalla and ghawa ("go astray; be in error") but regard the twain as laying emphasis on each other. However, some exegetes maintain that there is a difference between the twain such that the former connotes that one may never find the right path toward one's destination but the latter connotes that one proceeds on a path but his path happens not to be straight and free from error.

The former is like "disbelief" and the latter resembles committing sins and transgressing the bounds. It is worthy of note that in his Mufradat under gh-y-y, Raghib says that the latter signifies "ignorance accompanied by corrupt belief."

Thus, dhalala designates absolute ignorance but ghawaya signifies ignorance accompanied by false belief. However, in this blessed Verse, God Almighty intends to negate any form of error and ignorance from His Messenger (S) thereby repudiating the false accusations ascribed to him by his enemies.


In the above I have highlighted some of the interpretation to show that all sorts of meaning have been ascribed to verses such as this. But one interpretation that is not given outside of the Ijazz fundamentalists like heydarain, is that the verse says anything whatsoever about any "Black Holes" ... and nothing remotely like "black holes" is actually said in any of the words of those verses.

So what heydarian has been doing here, is simply outright repeatedly “lying for God” in order to preach his extreme Islamic beliefs (just like fundamentalist Christians such as the presuppositionilists do). The whole thing is just one massive spam of religious extreme preaching.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed

Hello. Maybe. But it only devours the fanatics ... Are you a fanatic? So wait ...

Let me guess, two weeks?

Have a question, where does my name come from?