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Old 20th June 2020, 10:48 PM   #881
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
We'll still have these people around after the election. They will be even madder, and resist even more any gubmint interruption in their lives. President Biden has his work cut out for him.
At least you'll have a president who works.

And Biden hasn't won yet.
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:12 PM   #882
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Trump's unpopularity may be saving the lives of his supporters. The 19,000-capacity rally arena is just a little over half full right now and the event has already begun.
Deja vu all over again. Remember the bleachers on inaguration day?

I read on Norwegian media that TikTok users have been reserving free tickets only to not show up. You know the trumpkins will be using stories like that for all they're worth to handwave the low number of attendees.
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:28 PM   #883
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If it is true that the area was empty because of fake online reservations, all that this shows is that the Trump Campaign is utterly incompetent.

Trump and Pence expected the crowds to be so thick that they would have to have an outdoor-event; if that had happened, they could have just let them in to fill up the "unclaimed" seats.

Clearly, not many people wanted to go to this rally.
That is all there is to this.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:12 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If it is true that the area was empty because of fake online reservations, all that this shows is that the Trump Campaign is utterly incompetent.
I'm also delighted by how they took no corona precautions and six of Trump's staffers came down with Covid-19. The Best People .

Quote:
Trump and Pence expected the crowds to be so thick that they would have to have an outdoor-event; if that had happened, they could have just let them in to fill up the "unclaimed" seats.

Clearly, not many people wanted to go to this rally.
That is all there is to this.
Yup, if people really had wanted to be there, the ones who couldn't get tickets would just crowd outside.
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Old 21st June 2020, 04:24 AM   #885
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If it is true that the area was empty because of fake online reservations, all that this shows is that the Trump Campaign is utterly incompetent.

Trump and Pence expected the crowds to be so thick that they would have to have an outdoor-event; if that had happened, they could have just let them in to fill up the "unclaimed" seats.

Clearly, not many people wanted to go to this rally.
That is all there is to this.
Especially when the campaign is sending out texts and Tweets saying there was still plenty of open space and to come on down, 30 minutes before showtime.
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Old 21st June 2020, 06:53 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I'm also delighted by how they took no corona precautions and six of Trump's staffers came down with Covid-19. The Best People .
The 6 were part of the advance team.

Quote:
Yup, if people really had wanted to be there, the ones who couldn't get tickets would just crowd outside.
Everyone could get tickets. They expected more than 19,000 to actually show up; that's what the overflow area was for.
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Old 24th June 2020, 06:16 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The thing is, with this disease, the effects will be small enough that no one will be able to point and say, "See I told you so."

The day before yesterday (the last day I looked), there were 450 new cases in Oklahoma. That's the most ever, by far. The population of Oklahoma is about 4,000,000. That means that that day, about 1 in 8,000 people showed positive for the first time. That would be 2-3 people in that crowd of 19,000 anticipated 6,200.

It isn't very many people, when all is said and done. It's not like the handful of pre-symptomatic people in the crowd are going to infect all 19,000 in attendance.

ETA: What really bugs me about Trump's handling of all this is that he can't come out and say, "It really sucks that some people are going to die from this disease, but that's better than living in isolation and loneliness. We're opening up. Good luck." Instead, there has to be denialism. The people who are afraid of the disease have to exaggerate how bad it is, and the people who want to end restrictions have to deny how bad it is. If there was a guy at the top who could be realistic, instead of taking up the denialism banner, it would be a lot easier to formulate balanced policies that would reduce risk but not keep us isolated.
Given that six Trump staff tested positive for Covid-19 in advance.....
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Old 24th June 2020, 07:12 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Given that six Trump staff tested positive for Covid-19 in advance.....
And two since then...
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:41 PM   #889
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Haven't poste in this one in a while, but as several states reported record numbers of deaths, four months into the epidemics, I thought it was time for a refresher. I had a look at townhall.com to see if they had anything to say about their wonderful leader and the way he is handling this crisis. I found:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...agree-n2572592

The short summary: If your children do not go back to school in the fall, online sex predators will attack them.
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Old 16th July 2020, 10:49 PM   #890
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Haven't poste in this one in a while, but as several states reported record numbers of deaths, four months into the epidemics, I thought it was time for a refresher. I had a look at townhall.com to see if they had anything to say about their wonderful leader and the way he is handling this crisis. I found:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...agree-n2572592

The short summary: If your children do not go back to school in the fall, online sex predators will attack them.
I thought it was a given that sex predators will attack them physically if they do go ...
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Old 17th July 2020, 01:41 AM   #891
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I heard another Trump supporter say today that the virus is just a 'hoax' and it's no worse than the flu. He and his family have continued to live just as they always have. The ability of people to delude themselves never ceases to amaze me.

I was reading the an article on George Stephanopoulos' interview with Mary Trump yesterday which was interesting. But what was even more interesting was the comment section. Trumpers there were STILL claiming Obama was born in Kenya. What the hell is wrong with those people?
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Old 17th July 2020, 01:55 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trumpers there were STILL claiming Obama was born in Kenya. What the hell is wrong with those people?
If a lie is repeated often enough, then it becomes the truth for a proportion of people - and that's the case with birtherism and President Trump's base.

If there was a concerted effort to undo birtherism from President Trump then its's possible that they could be deprogrammed but there hasn't been, not least because it's still somewhat useful.
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Old 17th July 2020, 05:43 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If a lie is repeated often enough, then it becomes the truth for a proportion of people - and that's the case with birtherism and President Trump's base.

If there was a concerted effort to undo birtherism from President Trump then its's possible that they could be deprogrammed but there hasn't been, not least because it's still somewhat useful.
Is this brand of stupid a particularly American problem?

By "this brand", I mean the tendency to say that I have my opinion and I will maintain it regardless of facts! I wonder if our "freedom" loving extends so deep that people see imposition of fact as something oppressive. I'm sure this phenomenon is found globally, but I sometimes wonder if it flourishes especially well here in the USA.
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Old 17th July 2020, 05:53 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Is this brand of stupid a particularly American problem?

By "this brand", I mean the tendency to say that I have my opinion and I will maintain it regardless of facts! I wonder if our "freedom" loving extends so deep that people see imposition of fact as something oppressive. I'm sure this phenomenon is found globally, but I sometimes wonder if it flourishes especially well here in the USA.
IMO no, Brexit has relied on exactly the same thing.
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Old 17th July 2020, 12:51 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Is this brand of stupid a particularly American problem?

By "this brand", I mean the tendency to say that I have my opinion and I will maintain it regardless of facts! I wonder if our "freedom" loving extends so deep that people see imposition of fact as something oppressive. I'm sure this phenomenon is found globally, but I sometimes wonder if it flourishes especially well here in the USA.
No. I've seen this same refusal to face facts from others than Americans. One person particularly comes to mind but Rule 12 prohibits me identifying him/her.
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Old 17th July 2020, 01:21 PM   #896
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Florida Governor (and Trump supporter) Ron DeSantis says the media is to blame for the rise in COVID-19 cases in Florida.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...eck-nr-vpx.cnn
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Old 17th July 2020, 03:16 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Florida Governor (and Trump supporter) Ron DeSantis says the media is to blame for the rise in COVID-19 cases in Florida.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...eck-nr-vpx.cnn

"So you got a lotta people in your profession, who waxed poetically for weeks and weeks about how Florida was gonna be just like New York" - Gov. Ron DeSantis
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Florida.jpg (45.6 KB, 40 views)
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Old 18th July 2020, 12:55 PM   #898
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I was very surprised to see this one at townhall.com today:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...ndate-n2572713

Summary: A list of corporate CEOs asking for a mask mandate. A long list.


It was presented somewhat neutrally. It didn't say anything at all about Trump or any other politician, but it certainly was not a "boycott list" by any means. It means that at a rabidly pro-Trump site, which practically worships business and the free market, they are willing to publish something that contradicts the President's position. In other words, the President's position is so stupid, and the issue so important, that even his supporters are willing to endorse, however tepidly, the other side.

As an aside, I wish there were more articles written kind of like this in "mainstream" sources. (In quotes because, in truth, I don't think there is a main stream anymore. The main stream has broken up into lots of tributaries.) I wish that "non-partisan" news sources would report neutrally like that. In other words, "Long List of CEOs Say We Ought to Have Masks" instead of "Long List of CEOs Say That We Ought to Have Masks, Contradicting Trump".
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Old 18th July 2020, 02:34 PM   #899
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Old 19th July 2020, 12:27 PM   #900
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And...denial is sill in style over at townhall.com

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...liars-n2572727


To be fair, one of his talking points makes sense. He says that some states are counting positive antibody tests in their new case counts. That is misleading at best, and could make the situation appear worse.

To me, look to the hospitals and morgues to see if things are getting better or worse. If people are sick and dying, that's reality, and it appears to me that people in Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, are dying. Here in Michigan, I'm not happy that case numbers and death counts are going the wrong way, but they aren't as bad as they used to be. The author tries to spin the numbers, but I don't think it will be successful. People can figure out what it means when the hospital says that elective surgery isn't being allowed.
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Old 19th July 2020, 03:50 PM   #901
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And...denial is sill in style over at townhall.com

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...liars-n2572727


To be fair, one of his talking points makes sense. He says that some states are counting positive antibody tests in their new case counts. That is misleading at best, and could make the situation appear worse.

To me, look to the hospitals and morgues to see if things are getting better or worse. If people are sick and dying, that's reality, and it appears to me that people in Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, are dying. Here in Michigan, I'm not happy that case numbers and death counts are going the wrong way, but they aren't as bad as they used to be. The author tries to spin the numbers, but I don't think it will be successful. People can figure out what it means when the hospital says that elective surgery isn't being allowed.
How do you think they got the antibodies? Why is that misleading? It may not be useful for resource planning, but it sure is to figure out "penetration" of the virus.
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Old 19th July 2020, 04:13 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
As an aside, I wish there were more articles written kind of like this in "mainstream" sources. (In quotes because, in truth, I don't think there is a main stream anymore. The main stream has broken up into lots of tributaries.) I wish that "non-partisan" news sources would report neutrally like that. In other words, "Long List of CEOs Say We Ought to Have Masks" instead of "Long List of CEOs Say That We Ought to Have Masks, Contradicting Trump".
No, I'm still sick of that kind of "neutrality" from the last decade up until about 2018. It was made plainly apparent that not only will people not connect the dots unless someone does it for them, but there'll always be someone else only too happy to show how you can use the dots to draw a penis instead.

ARE those CEOs contradicting Trump? Oh look. They are. Then that's part of the story and it deserves to be told as such, not left as an implication for someone else to twist.
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Old 19th July 2020, 05:16 PM   #903
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
How do you think they got the antibodies? Why is that misleading? It may not be useful for resource planning, but it sure is to figure out "penetration" of the virus.
Disclaimer: I don't know if the townhall.com is even accurate in its claims about antibody tests. My answer is based on the assumption that they are.


Because if an antibody test comes back positive, it indicates that a person was infected some time in the past. However, if it gets recorded in today's positive test cases, it looks like the virus is increasing right now.

I seriously doubt that the effect is enough to be all that significant in the charts. As I said earlier, watch the number of people being hospitalized or dying. There's the key to measuring how bad the epidemic is at this point, and it seems like it's pretty darned bad in some states, especially in the South.
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Old 19th July 2020, 05:19 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
No, I'm still sick of that kind of "neutrality" from the last decade up until about 2018. It was made plainly apparent that not only will people not connect the dots unless someone does it for them, but there'll always be someone else only too happy to show how you can use the dots to draw a penis instead.

ARE those CEOs contradicting Trump? Oh look. They are. Then that's part of the story and it deserves to be told as such, not left as an implication for someone else to twist.
But, in my humble opinion, it dilutes the message. If the news source reports the reality, people can compare it to what Trump says. By putting the "Trump is Bad" in the headline, it guarantees that you make the audience unreceptive to the message. It's not that it's inaccurate. It's just a question of how to communicate most effectively.
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Old 19th July 2020, 05:40 PM   #905
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
But, in my humble opinion, it dilutes the message. If the news source reports the reality, people can compare it to what Trump says. By putting the "Trump is Bad" in the headline, it guarantees that you make the audience unreceptive to the message. It's not that it's inaccurate. It's just a question of how to communicate most effectively.
You don't get to define "reality" by limiting it to the bits that agree with you. Telling half the story and letting people get the other half from someone with a fistful of rubles in their pocket also isn't effective communication.
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Old 19th July 2020, 08:25 PM   #906
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Here in Michigan, I'm not happy that case numbers and death counts are going the wrong way,
And they say more younger people are being infected now, who should be less affected. So deaths going the wrong way now is very bad news.
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:51 AM   #907
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Disclaimer: I don't know if the townhall.com is even accurate in its claims about antibody tests. My answer is based on the assumption that they are.


Because if an antibody test comes back positive, it indicates that a person was infected some time in the past. However, if it gets recorded in today's positive test cases, it looks like the virus is increasing right now.
If only there was some way to tell if a test of an active case correlates to an antibody test. Like by name.

ETA: Same thing happens with harvesting death certificates.

Quote:
I seriously doubt that the effect is enough to be all that significant in the charts. As I said earlier, watch the number of people being hospitalized or dying. There's the key to measuring how bad the epidemic is at this point, and it seems like it's pretty darned bad in some states, especially in the South.
Then what do you do when the hospitals are at 100%, stop counting?
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:07 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
If only there was some way to tell if a test of an active case correlates to an antibody test. Like by name.

ETA: Same thing happens with harvesting death certificates.



Then what do you do when the hospitals are at 100%, stop counting?
The morgue will be filling rapidly by then.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:09 AM   #909
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The morgue will be filling rapidly by then.
You mean the refrigerated trucks.... ?
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:11 AM   #910
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You mean the refrigerated trucks.... ?
Can I get "mass graves" for 600, Alex?
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Old 20th July 2020, 03:16 PM   #911
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And...denial is sill in style over at townhall.com

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...liars-n2572727


To be fair, one of his talking points makes sense. He says that some states are counting positive antibody tests in their new case counts. That is misleading at best, and could make the situation appear worse.

To me, look to the hospitals and morgues to see if things are getting better or worse. If people are sick and dying, that's reality, and it appears to me that people in Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, are dying. Here in Michigan, I'm not happy that case numbers and death counts are going the wrong way, but they aren't as bad as they used to be. The author tries to spin the numbers, but I don't think it will be successful. People can figure out what it means when the hospital says that elective surgery isn't being allowed.
It's really sad. I've seen articles about Dallas and other places needing to rent fridge trucks to store bodies because the morgues are full at hospitals. The comments in these articles are full of Trumpanzees claiming those articles are fake news.
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Old 20th July 2020, 03:18 PM   #912
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Disclaimer: I don't know if the townhall.com is even accurate in its claims about antibody tests. My answer is based on the assumption that they are.


Because if an antibody test comes back positive, it indicates that a person was infected some time in the past. However, if it gets recorded in today's positive test cases, it looks like the virus is increasing right now.

I seriously doubt that the effect is enough to be all that significant in the charts. As I said earlier, watch the number of people being hospitalized or dying. There's the key to measuring how bad the epidemic is at this point, and it seems like it's pretty darned bad in some states, especially in the South.
As I understand it, the positive test trends track people who are positive with the illness, people who are active with the illness.
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Old 1st August 2020, 07:13 AM   #913
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So FB was full of posts about “Jim Jordan pwning Fauci over hypocrisy”. So the Trump sycophants are gleeful at seeing the pedophile enabler harass the viral expert to cajole him into saying that protests should be illegal. Trump fans are very proud of this.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 09:58 PM   #914
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
So FB was full of posts about “Jim Jordan pwning Fauci over hypocrisy”. So the Trump sycophants are gleeful at seeing the pedophile enabler harass the viral expert to cajole him into saying that protests should be illegal. Trump fans are very proud of this.
Trump fans are idiots. How else would we expect them to interpret Jordan's disgraceful attack on Fauci?
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Old 4th August 2020, 10:11 PM   #915
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump fans are idiots. How else would we expect them to interpret Jordan's disgraceful attack on Fauci?
Jim Jordan is innocent until proven guilty (which they only think applies if the accused is a Republican).
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:32 AM   #916
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This week's podcast episode of "****-Post" by Jared Holt of Right Wing Watch is an interesting dive into the covid contrarian mindset. He is joined by the hosts of "Minion Death Cult", a podcast which dives into right wing facebook and monitors the extremists there.

An interesting exploration of how former NYT reporter Alex Berenson has become a right wing contrarian and grifter, including becoming one of the top "experts" of covid denialism. They also plums the depths of covid-denialism Facebook groups.

https://shtpostpodcast.com/corona-sk...on-death-cult/
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:37 AM   #917
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Quote:

Anthony Fauci Explains Why The US Still Hasn’t Beaten Covid by Steven Levy


It seems that there’s a hostility towards science and evidence-based thinking.
How much does that worry you?


It does. Obviously, there is a bit of an anti-science trend in the United States,
a pushing back on authority telling you what to do. Sometimes, in a good vein,
that could be the independent spirit of the American people. That is part of our
character. But on the other hand, it can work against you. And when you push
back on someone telling you what to do, and you mix that with a trend of anti-
authority, anti-science, then you get into trouble. Then you get into the situation
we find ourselves now, where people are not acting in a way that is safeguarding
their health.

But what goes through your mind when you hear the argument he makes that
the high numbers of infections are a result of testing?


It’s not going to be helpful or productive for what I need to do in my role
as a public health official, and a scientist and a physician, to try and get
our arms around this outbreak and to do the kinds of things and the kind
of work that we do, if I start going one-on-one and contradicting what the
president said. I don't want to go there, because that's just not helpful.
It's going to be detrimental to my effort. So I don't want to talk about that.

Fauci walks a fine line there, a very fine line.
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Old 8th August 2020, 10:34 PM   #918
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So here's a gem from townhall.com: (Written by a Republican congressman)

https://townhall.com/capitol-voices/...stage-n2573936

The basic thrust of the article is that the policies of Fauci and Birx have resulted in (insert all the woes of the world here. Unemployment. Child Abuse. Cancer deaths. Those are actual examples. Read the article for more.)

How dare that guy Fauci do all those bad things. I sure hope he loses the next election. Oh.....wait.

But in addition to absolving Trump of all responsibilty for administration policies. he includes this marvel of stupidity.


Originally Posted by from the article
Typical of Fauci’s casual approach to this crisis is his recent statement in one of the many interviews that seem to occupy his time. He suggested that the spread of COVID might not even be by aerosol. That would leave spread by contact. And, it would mean, as we already suspect, that masking Americans does nothing, really, to stop the spread of COVID.
This is what I absolutely hate in today's America. This guy takes one of Fauci's statements, completely misinterprets it, fills it in with his own lack of knowledge, and comes to a completely erroneous conclusion. And no one calls him on it. He's a congressman, and no one looked at what he was about to publish it and said, "Sir..droplets aren't aerosols. Masks are most effective against spread by droplets."

Instead he just mouths off, and idiots will say, "See....Fauci says it might not even be spread in the air and so masks wouldn't work anyway!" (I'm deliberately having my hypothetical numbskull even further misrepresent Fauci's comments, as that seems fairly likely to happen.)

Dude. You're a congressman. Your words could conceivably matter. Have someone fact check your public statements, at least the written ones.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 8th August 2020 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 8th August 2020, 11:14 PM   #919
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Scenes From A Multiverse. Definitely NSFW.
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Old 9th August 2020, 01:05 AM   #920
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
So here's a gem from townhall.com: (Written by a Republican congressman)

https://townhall.com/capitol-voices/...stage-n2573936

The basic thrust of the article is that the policies of Fauci and Birx have resulted in (insert all the woes of the world here. Unemployment. Child Abuse. Cancer deaths. Those are actual examples. Read the article for more.)

How dare that guy Fauci do all those bad things. I sure hope he loses the next election. Oh.....wait.

But in addition to absolving Trump of all responsibilty for administration policies. he includes this marvel of stupidity.




This is what I absolutely hate in today's America. This guy takes one of Fauci's statements, completely misinterprets it, fills it in with his own lack of knowledge, and comes to a completely erroneous conclusion. And no one calls him on it. He's a congressman, and no one looked at what he was about to publish it and said, "Sir..droplets aren't aerosols. Masks are most effective against spread by droplets."

Instead he just mouths off, and idiots will say, "See....Fauci says it might not even be spread in the air and so masks wouldn't work anyway!" (I'm deliberately having my hypothetical numbskull even further misrepresent Fauci's comments, as that seems fairly likely to happen.)

Dude. You're a congressman. Your words could conceivably matter. Have someone fact check your public statements, at least the written ones.
He's just following his Prez's example.
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