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Old 2nd April 2020, 09:58 AM   #281
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
And if it isn't perfect, it's all Obama's fault.
Actually, he's saying both at the same time these days. "We did everything perfect, but it wasn't perfect because of Obama!!"
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Old 2nd April 2020, 10:06 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Actually, he's saying both at the same time these days. "We did everything perfect, but it wasn't perfect because of Obama!!"
It plays rather nicely for his base.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:23 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It is frequently silly to keep things honest, when "keeping things honest" means focusing on something insignificant.
If something truly is insignificant, I agree. But I guess we differ on what is considered "insignificant". Personally, I find it very significant to falsely claim/imply in a campaign ad that Trump called the coronavirus a hoax when we're in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic that has impacted almost every person in the country, has resulted in the unemployment of millions, and that has killed over 5,300 people in the US alone so far.

What is silly is for people to keep defending it and saying it's OK.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:29 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If something truly is insignificant, I agree. But I guess we differ on what is considered "insignificant". Personally, I find it very significant to falsely claim/imply in a campaign ad that Trump called the coronavirus a hoax when we're in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic that has impacted almost every person in the country, has resulted in the unemployment of millions, and that has killed over 5,300 people in the US alone so far.

What is silly is for people to keep defending it and saying it's OK.
The difference between calling the virus a hoax and calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax just isn't that large of one to many, probably most, people.

In the context of the thread, have you seen Trump supporters making the 'the accusation of calling the virus a hoax is (slightly) wrong, therefore Trump's off the hook' or the like? I admit it's a deflection I've seen even when people make the distinction you uphold as a critical distinction.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:35 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If something truly is insignificant, I agree. But I guess we differ on what is considered "insignificant". Personally, I find it very significant to falsely claim/imply in a campaign ad that Trump called the coronavirus a hoax when we're in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic that has impacted almost every person in the country, has resulted in the unemployment of millions, and that has killed over 5,300 people in the US alone so far.

What is silly is for people to keep defending it and saying it's OK.
To echo what Tyr said, this isn't the right thread for getting into that debate, unless somehow it is a reflection of something Trump supporters are saying.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:46 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The difference between calling the virus a hoax and calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax just isn't that large of one to many, probably most, people.

In the context of the thread, have you seen Trump supporters making the 'the accusation of calling the virus a hoax is (slightly) wrong, therefore Trump's off the hook' or the like? I admit it's a deflection I've seen even when people make the distinction you uphold as a critical distinction.

But was Trump calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax? No. He was referring to the criticism of how he was handling it. Do you see any fact finding site claiming he was referring to the seriousness of it? No.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:50 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To echo what Tyr said, this isn't the right thread for getting into that debate, unless somehow it is a reflection of something Trump supporters are saying.
I think we know what Trump's campaign committee and Trump, I would assume, think of it since they've sent a 'cease and desist' letter specifically referring to that part of the ad. I think it would be reasonable to assume Trump supporters agree that it's a false claim.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 12:56 PM   #288
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What I'm seeing today in blogs is a lot of variations on "It's China's fault!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Old 2nd April 2020, 01:14 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But was Trump calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax? No. He was referring to the criticism of how he was handling it. Do you see any fact finding site claiming he was referring to the seriousness of it? No.
Yes, he was calling the seriousness a hoax. Granted with one or two levels of abstraction, but the effect is identical.

The criticisms of him were based on the seriousness of the situation. Trump downplayed the seriousness as part of his calling their criticism 'a hoax'. He claimed the media and Dems were 'hoaxing' the criticisms, which would mean 'hoaxing' the seriousness of the problem.

But even with the additional detail that the seriousness wasn't the only basis for criticisms of Trump that you say is important, we are still left with Trump claiming the correct information about the situation (seriousness, effectiveness of his response, need for response, past actions, whatever) around the virus was a hoax, rather than the virus itself being a hoax. Do you really think that's a key distinction? Again, back to the topic at hand (sorry to discuss this here, it's come up in several threads and I just happened to pick this one), do you find it is a distinction Trump supporters make and understand?

Would the phrasing, 'the distinction between Trump claiming the virus was a hoax and the true things about the virus situation the Dems were saying is a hoax isn't as important as you seem to think' be better for you?

I'm not unsympathetic to your point. There are things I do to try to keep my phrasing as accurate as possible on. But here I'm a bit reminded of the distinction between 'is Trump racist', or 'is he too stupid to realize the racist effects of his actions or combat them'? At some point it's academic. The impact is still him lacking the ability and/or will to do correct the problem.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 01:30 PM   #290
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[quote=Stacyhs;13042622]But was Trump calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax? No. He was referring to the criticism of how he was handling it. Do you see any fact finding site claiming he was referring to the seriousness of it? No.[/QUOTE

Wasn't it donnie's son who reported early on that it was all a hoax, that the Dem's were doing it (blowing the virus up past hyperbole when it was not a big deal), because they wanted daddy to look bad and they were desperate?

I think I am getting confused with all that is going on!
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Old 2nd April 2020, 01:55 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But was Trump calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax? No. He was referring to the criticism of how he was handling it. Do you see any fact finding site claiming he was referring to the seriousness of it? No.
Wasn't it donnie's son who reported early on that it was all a hoax, that the Dem's were doing it (blowing the virus up past hyperbole when it was not a big deal), because they wanted daddy to look bad and they were desperate?

I think I am getting confused with all that is going on!
I don't remember Jr saying it was a hoax, but he did say the Dems and the media were hoping the virus would kill tens of millions of Americans to hurt his father politically.

Which actually is on topic for this thread! That's a 'it doesn't matter what we do because the Dems are against America!'. They turn valid criticisms and 'we told you so' into 'why don't you want America to succeed' and 'hindsight!'.

Of course the media and Dems don't have magic powers which make criticisms of Trump come true, unless one considers basic cognitive capacities 'magic'.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:00 PM   #292
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Didn’t the son-in law also decide, based on his expertise, that N.Y. has asked for way too many respirators, again apparently to embarrass dear old dad, and had daddy withhold most of the request?
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:02 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Yes, he was calling the seriousness a hoax. Granted with one or two levels of abstraction, but the effect is identical.

The criticisms of him were based on the seriousness of the situation. Trump downplayed the seriousness as part of his calling their criticism 'a hoax'. He claimed the media and Dems were 'hoaxing' the criticisms, which would mean 'hoaxing' the seriousness of the problem.
No, he was not calling the 'seriousness' a hoax. He was saying the Dems were making false claims about his response in an effort to affect his re-election. THAT was the hoax as in Russia hoax, Mueller hoax, global warming hoax, impeachment hoax.

Quote:
But even with the additional detail that the seriousness wasn't the only basis for criticisms of Trump that you say is important, we are still left with Trump claiming the correct information about the situation (seriousness, effectiveness of his response, need for response, past actions, whatever) around the virus was a hoax, rather than the virus itself being a hoax. Do you really think that's a key distinction? Again, back to the topic at hand (sorry to discuss this here, it's come up in several threads and I just happened to pick this one), do you find it is a distinction Trump supporters make and understand?
The ad wasn't aimed at Trump supporters so what they understand is irrelevant.

Quote:
Would the phrasing, 'the distinction between Trump claiming the virus was a hoax and the true things about the virus situation the Dems were saying is a hoax isn't as important as you seem to think' be better for you?
Frankly, after reading this a few times, I'm not sure what you're saying. Can you clarify?

Quote:
I'm not unsympathetic to your point. There are things I do to try to keep my phrasing as accurate as possible on. But here I'm a bit reminded of the distinction between 'is Trump racist', or 'is he too stupid to realize the racist effects of his actions or combat them'? At some point it's academic. The impact is still him lacking the ability and/or will to do correct the problem.
I honestly don't know why so many people are having such difficulty with my position and feel the need to defend that part of the ad. It's as if they think that by admitting it's misleading then the rest of the ad is wrong. Or maybe they can't admit the Dems were wrong because admitting that somehow is a defense of Trump and we can't ever say Trump was right. All I ever said was that the beginning of the ad is misleading and it is. To deny that flies in the face of the evidence.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:04 PM   #294
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[quote=wasapi;13042676]
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But was Trump calling the seriousness of the virus a hoax? No. He was referring to the criticism of how he was handling it. Do you see any fact finding site claiming he was referring to the seriousness of it? No.[/QUOTE

Wasn't it donnie's son who reported early on that it was all a hoax, that the Dem's were doing it (blowing the virus up past hyperbole when it was not a big deal), because they wanted daddy to look bad and they were desperate?

I think I am getting confused with all that is going on!
I don't know what Trump's spawn was saying. I don't pay much attention to him.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:19 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, he was not calling the 'seriousness' a hoax. He was saying the Dems were making false claims about his response in an effort to affect his re-election. THAT was the hoax as in Russia hoax, Mueller hoax, global warming hoax, impeachment hoax.
But the claims the Dems were making about his response were A, true, and B, based on Trump not taking it serious enough/downplaying how serious it is.

If person A says, "This is much worse than the flu and could kill millions," and person B says, "Anyone who says this is worse than the flu is an idiot," then person B is saying person A is an idiot. If person A says, "Your response to this has been bungled, the situation really is serious even though you're saying it isn't," and person B says, "Your criticism is a hoax," then they really are saying the situation isn't as serious as person A claims.



Quote:
The ad wasn't aimed at Trump supporters so what they understand is irrelevant.
This thread is about what Trump supporters are saying. It is relevant.



Quote:
Frankly, after reading this a few times, I'm not sure what you're saying. Can you clarify?
I'm saying that even taking your additional, more nuanced points into account, do you think the distinction is still critical? It's the 'I'm not saying the dress makes you look fat, I'm saying you're fat' distinction. Either way, the outcome is the same.



Quote:
I honestly don't know why so many people are having such difficulty with my position and feel the need to defend that part of the ad. It's as if they think that by admitting it's misleading then the rest of the ad is wrong. Or maybe they can't admit the Dems were wrong because admitting that somehow is a defense of Trump and we can't ever say Trump was right. All I ever said was that the beginning of the ad is misleading and it is. To deny that flies in the face of the evidence.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't have a problem with you even repeatedly pointing out the nuance, but it appears you think this is a critical distinction. I don't think it actually would change the outcome. Either way, Trump was still lying and wrong and the Dems/media had this one largely correct.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:24 PM   #296
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From the You-just-can't-make-this-****-up department:

I just tuned in to CNN today for the first time in a few days and now Dr. Fauci needs personal security because Trump's fellow conspiracy nutbags are threatening his life? Is this for real?

W.
T.
F.



When the medical expert who's trying to save lives gets death threats from the very same people he/she is trying to help.... maybe it's time to just step back and let Darwin deal with these freaks of nature while the rest of you stay indoors and follow the advice of the experts?

I can't believe what I'm hearing. Totally and utterly dumbfounded.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 02:38 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
From the You-just-can't-make-this-****-up department:

I just tuned in to CNN today for the first time in a few days and now Dr. Fauci needs personal security because Trump's fellow conspiracy nutbags are threatening his life? Is this for real?

W.
T.
F.



When the medical expert who's trying to save lives gets death threats from the very same people he/she is trying to help.... maybe it's time to just step back and let Darwin deal with these freaks of nature while the rest of you stay indoors and follow the advice of the experts?

I can't believe what I'm hearing. Totally and utterly dumbfounded.
Well, this after an attempt to destroy the hospital ship Mercy in NY Harbour.

Ultimately the Pizzagate crowd has a big overlap with QAnon; the intersection being that government employees are now regarded as pretty much the definition of traitors UNLESS they praise the president at every opportunity.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:00 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
But the claims the Dems were making about his response were A, true, and B, based on Trump not taking it serious enough/downplaying how serious it is.

If person A says, "This is much worse than the flu and could kill millions," and person B says, "Anyone who says this is worse than the flu is an idiot," then person B is saying person A is an idiot. If person A says, "Your response to this has been bungled, the situation really is serious even though you're saying it isn't," and person B says, "Your criticism is a hoax," then they really are saying the situation isn't as serious as person A claims.
It doesn't matter if what the Dems were saying was actually true or not. That's not the point any more than whether the impeachment charges were actually true or not in the 'impeachment hoax' accusation. In both, Trump is trying to discredit the Dems' claims against him because he wants to present them as nothing more than politics aimed at defeating him in November. The purpose in using the word 'hoax' was not to downplay the seriousness of the virus (although he certainly was doing that, too) but to discredit the source of those criticisms.


Quote:
This thread is about what Trump supporters are saying. It is relevant.
Trump supporters aren't saying much about this in this forum. I can't really think of any comments from them off the top of my head right now. I suspect it's because they don't want to open a can of worms about the legitimacy of the rest of the ad. It's rather difficult to defend the things he actually did say in the ad.

I did find this article about the ad and there are comments from Trump supporters. Predictably, they are not happy with it. I'd c & p some but it's not available. The "what can you expect from lying Dems and Fake News" rhetoric is popular.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...video-trickery


Quote:
I'm saying that even taking your additional, more nuanced points into account, do you think the distinction is still critical? It's the 'I'm not saying the dress makes you look fat, I'm saying you're fat' distinction. Either way, the outcome is the same.
I don't think my point is 'nuanced' at all. The ad strongly implies he said something he did not say and it was not in reference to the virus but to the intentions of the Dems in targeting his re-election.

Quote:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't have a problem with you even repeatedly pointing out the nuance, but it appears you think this is a critical distinction. I don't think it actually would change the outcome.
[quote]

Yes, I think it is a critical distinction.

Quote:
Either way, Trump was still lying and wrong and the Dems/media had this one largely correct.
On this we are in violent agreement.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:09 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Well, this after an attempt to destroy the hospital ship Mercy in NY Harbour.

Ultimately the Pizzagate crowd has a big overlap with QAnon; the intersection being that government employees are now regarded as pretty much the definition of traitors UNLESS they praise the president at every opportunity.

Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise? The world is now seeing just how dangerous these conspiracy theories and its followers really are to the rest of us. Maybe we'll start to see a big rise in the mocking and utter contempt of CTers and they'll start losing followers? The new pariahs of this decade?

I don't know, but this is insane. The entire planet is dealing with a pandemic and all these people can think about is saving the economy of their lord and saviour, Conald Frump.

I'm gobsmacked.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:17 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise? The world is now seeing just how dangerous these conspiracy theories and its followers really are to the rest of us. Maybe we'll start to see a big rise in the mocking and utter contempt of CTers and they'll start losing followers? The new pariahs of this decade?

I don't know, but this is insane. The entire planet is dealing with a pandemic and all these people can think about is saving the economy of their lord and saviour, Conald Frump.

I'm gobsmacked.
I don't think it's a blessing in disguise, people just double down when shown how they made a mistake. Their Man got elected and is sitting at in the Black Helicopter command centre. And yet... nothing's changed. There's still chemtrails all over the place. Herr Gropenfurher is doing his best, but the Deep State is so dug in, y'know? How can we help?

My cynicism comes from 50 years of living on this planet. We all thought that when we saw dead children with measles, that the antivaxxers would be sent to ground. Nope, Commander [Many Such Cases] appoints the head of the FDA now.

Cognitive Dissonance can be reconciled by admitting error, but it's easier to just retreat into fiction and redefine the error as brave heroism.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:17 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Well, this after an attempt to destroy the hospital ship Mercy in NY Harbour.

Ultimately the Pizzagate crowd has a big overlap with QAnon; the intersection being that government employees are now regarded as pretty much the definition of traitors UNLESS they praise the president at every opportunity.
Oh, it's worse than that, now they are accusing doctors of stealing medical supplies.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:20 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Oh, it's worse than that, now they are accusing doctors of stealing medical supplies.
Last week it was nurses. They're upping the ante I guess.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:24 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I don't think it's a blessing in disguise, people just double down when shown how they made a mistake. Their Man got elected and is sitting at in the Black Helicopter command centre. And yet... nothing's changed. There's still chemtrails all over the place. Herr Gropenfurher is doing his best, but the Deep State is so dug in, y'know? How can we help?

My cynicism comes from 50 years of living on this planet. We all thought that when we saw dead children with measles, that the antivaxxers would be sent to ground. Nope, Commander [Many Such Cases] appoints the head of the FDA now.

Cognitive Dissonance can be reconciled by admitting error, but it's easier to just retreat into fiction and redefine the error as brave heroism.

You know what the really sad part is in all this? I can't argue with a single point you made in your post.

*sigh*

Somebody stop the planet and let me off.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 03:24 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I don't think it's a blessing in disguise, people just double down when shown how they made a mistake. Their Man got elected and is sitting at in the Black Helicopter command centre. And yet... nothing's changed. There's still chemtrails all over the place. Herr Gropenfurher is doing his best, but the Deep State is so dug in, y'know? How can we help?

My cynicism comes from 50 years of living on this planet. We all thought that when we saw dead children with measles, that the antivaxxers would be sent to ground. Nope, Commander [Many Such Cases] appoints the head of the FDA now.

Cognitive Dissonance can be reconciled by admitting error, but it's easier to just retreat into fiction and redefine the error as brave heroism.
Well said.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 05:34 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, he was not calling the 'seriousness' a hoax. He was saying the Dems were making false claims about his response in an effort to affect his re-election. THAT was the hoax as in Russia hoax, Mueller hoax, global warming hoax, impeachment hoax.
Stacy, I like you, I really do, but you're not getting this. Democrats were saying the President was wrong in downplaying the virus; he said that was a hoax. They were right, he was wrong. He was saying not just that their criticism was wrong, but that the virus wasn't a problem. And he doubled down on that repeatedly over the next few days. His supporters overwhelmingly believed him; Republican governors failed to act because Trump said "hoax". Many, including some on this board, still believe what he said at first.

PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THAT! PEOPLE ARE DYING! And your hair-splitting isn't helping.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:06 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Stacy, I like you, I really do, but you're not getting this. Democrats were saying the President was wrong in downplaying the virus; he said that was a hoax. They were right, he was wrong. He was saying not just that their criticism was wrong, but that the virus wasn't a problem. And he doubled down on that repeatedly over the next few days. His supporters overwhelmingly believed him; Republican governors failed to act because Trump said "hoax". Many, including some on this board, still believe what he said at first.

PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THAT! PEOPLE ARE DYING! And your hair-splitting isn't helping.
Yup. Pretty clear up here on Mount Obvious.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:16 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Stacy, I like you, I really do, but you're not getting this. Democrats were saying the President was wrong in downplaying the virus; he said that was a hoax. They were right, he was wrong. He was saying not just that their criticism was wrong, but that the virus wasn't a problem. And he doubled down on that repeatedly over the next few days. His supporters overwhelmingly believed him; Republican governors failed to act because Trump said "hoax". Many, including some on this board, still believe what he said at first.

PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THAT! PEOPLE ARE DYING! And your hair-splitting isn't helping.


A big part of the problem is that Trump is making up his own definition of "hoax", just like he makes up his own version of reality.

Seriously, take a look at how he's used that word over the last three years, and try to reconcile that usage with the dictionary definition. It just doesn't make sense.

And that's part of his point. If you use words in this way, it obscures your meaning, and thus obscures your intentions, and so you can claim that any criticism of your words "Didn't understand what I meant", or "Distorted my intent" or some other out. This lets him say something "That's all a Democratic hoax!", which he knows his followers will interpret as "Everything they said is a lie", but, when called out on that, can be spun as "I never said everything was a lie, you misunderstood me!"

So if someone is misrepresenting what he said, then it's his own fault for being deliberately ambiguous. I expect his fanboys to let him get away with that, but it'd be nice if everyone else kept calling him on it.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:17 PM   #308
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There was an interesting note today over at Townhall.com. Apparently, Trump sent Schumer a letter today. Here are some excerpts.

"Dear Senator Schumer: Thank you for your Democrat public relations letter and incorrect sounds bites, which are wrong in every way," Trump wrote. "If you spent less time on your ridiculous impeachment hoax, which went haplessly on forever and ended up going nowhere (except increasing my poll numbers), and instead focused on helping the people of New York, then New York would not have been so completely unprepared for the 'invisible enemy.' No wonder AOC and others are thinking about running against you in the primary. If they did, they would likely win."

"Fortunately, we have been working with your state and city governments, Governor Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill DeBlasio, to get the job done. You have been missing in action, except when it comes to the 'press.' While you have states that you don't like Answer Cuomo, you ought to start working alongside him for the good of all New Yorkers," he continued. "I've known you for many years, but I never knew how bad a Senator you are for the state of New York, until I became President."

Well that's interesting. The thing I find even more interesting is that a letter like that wasn't covered at all in mainstream (to use a word that is probably not accurate) sources. It was, on the other hand, mentioned on Fox News. (Which, as the biggest news source around these days, ought to be considered a mainstream source.)

ETA: And, reading Trump's letter, I am reminded that "Jane, you ignorant slut!" was once a parody.

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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:24 PM   #309
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Quote:
While you have states that you don't like Answer Cuomo, you ought to start working alongside him for the good of all New Yorkers
Okay, can anyone parse that mess of sentence? I wish I could say I can't believe a president of the United States could write so poorly, but I really can believe it.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:27 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Okay, can anyone parse that mess of sentence? I wish I could say I can't believe a president of the United States could write so poorly, but I really can believe it.
I'm guessing an autocorrect of a mistyped Andrew.

ETA: And probably meant "stated". It would be just like Trump to try and stir up friction between prominent Democrats.

ETA2: And I would think that the president would have proofreaders, and would care enough to use them, but obviously this president plays by his own rules.

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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:31 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Interesting that teh Trump Cultsts here want criticism of Trump to stop, but say nothing abou Trump his unceasing attacks on political opponents.
Not really. It's SOP for the GOP now.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 06:40 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm guessing an autocorrect of a mistyped Andrew.

ETA: And probably meant "stated". It would be just like Trump to try and stir up friction between prominent Democrats.

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess when you treat running a country like it's middle school, and all about "who likes who", it's easier to come up with lines like that.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:16 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Stacy, I like you, I really do, but you're not getting this. Democrats were saying the President was wrong in downplaying the virus; he said that was a hoax. They were right, he was wrong. He was saying not just that their criticism was wrong, but that the virus wasn't a problem. And he doubled down on that repeatedly over the next few days. His supporters overwhelmingly believed him; Republican governors failed to act because Trump said "hoax". Many, including some on this board, still believe what he said at first.

PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THAT! PEOPLE ARE DYING! And your hair-splitting isn't helping.
I have never said he wasn't downplaying the virus. Never.

This was my first post on this subject and it's remained consistent:

#1: Was the statement false? At the risk of being called a 'Trump apologist' (which I most certainly am not as I despise him), I'd have to say it is, at the least, misleading as used in the ad. Trump clearly was referring to the Democrats using the virus, not the virus itself, as a hoax.

If I'm not getting this then neither are Politico, FactCheck.org, Snopes, or PolitiFact. Yet somehow I'm now the one who is 'defending Trump' and 'hair-splitting' because I dared to say that the ad was misleading because Trump never called the virus itself a hoax.

Holy crap...I'll just be sure to fall into line and goose step along with everyone else from now on.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:31 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There was an interesting note today over at Townhall.com. Apparently, Trump sent Schumer a letter today. Here are some excerpts.

"Dear Senator Schumer: Thank you for your Democrat public relations letter and incorrect sounds bites, which are wrong in every way," Trump wrote. "If you spent less time on your ridiculous impeachment hoax, which went haplessly on forever and ended up going nowhere (except increasing my poll numbers), and instead focused on helping the people of New York, then New York would not have been so completely unprepared for the 'invisible enemy.' No wonder AOC and others are thinking about running against you in the primary. If they did, they would likely win."

"Fortunately, we have been working with your state and city governments, Governor Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill DeBlasio, to get the job done. You have been missing in action, except when it comes to the 'press.' While you have states that you don't like Answer Cuomo, you ought to start working alongside him for the good of all New Yorkers," he continued. "I've known you for many years, but I never knew how bad a Senator you are for the state of New York, until I became President."

Well that's interesting. The thing I find even more interesting is that a letter like that wasn't covered at all in mainstream (to use a word that is probably not accurate) sources. It was, on the other hand, mentioned on Fox News. (Which, as the biggest news source around these days, ought to be considered a mainstream source.)

ETA: And, reading Trump's letter, I am reminded that "Jane, you ignorant slut!" was once a parody.
Sadly, this totally unpresidential pettiness is typical of Trump. He's a national embarrassment.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 11:13 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There was an interesting note today over at Townhall.com. Apparently, Trump sent Schumer a letter today. Here are some excerpts.

"Dear Senator Schumer: Thank you for your Democrat public relations letter and incorrect sounds bites, which are wrong in every way," Trump wrote. "If you spent less time on your ridiculous impeachment hoax, which went haplessly on forever and ended up going nowhere (except increasing my poll numbers), and instead focused on helping the people of New York, then New York would not have been so completely unprepared for the 'invisible enemy.' No wonder AOC and others are thinking about running against you in the primary. If they did, they would likely win."

"Fortunately, we have been working with your state and city governments, Governor Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill DeBlasio, to get the job done. You have been missing in action, except when it comes to the 'press.' While you have states that you don't like Answer Cuomo, you ought to start working alongside him for the good of all New Yorkers," he continued. "I've known you for many years, but I never knew how bad a Senator you are for the state of New York, until I became President."

Well that's interesting. The thing I find even more interesting is that a letter like that wasn't covered at all in mainstream (to use a word that is probably not accurate) sources. It was, on the other hand, mentioned on Fox News. (Which, as the biggest news source around these days, ought to be considered a mainstream source.)

ETA: And, reading Trump's letter, I am reminded that "Jane, you ignorant slut!" was once a parody.
Betting that one hit Schumer's round file within moments of being opened...and laughed at hilariously.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 03:36 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
A big part of the problem is that Trump is making up his own definition of "hoax", just like he makes up his own version of reality.



Seriously, take a look at how he's used that word over the last three years, and try to reconcile that usage with the dictionary definition. It just doesn't make sense.



And that's part of his point. If you use words in this way, it obscures your meaning, and thus obscures your intentions, and so you can claim that any criticism of your words "Didn't understand what I meant", or "Distorted my intent" or some other out. This lets him say something "That's all a Democratic hoax!", which he knows his followers will interpret as "Everything they said is a lie", but, when called out on that, can be spun as "I never said everything was a lie, you misunderstood me!"



So if someone is misrepresenting what he said, then it's his own fault for being deliberately ambiguous. I expect his fanboys to let him get away with that, but it'd be nice if everyone else kept calling him on it.
It is not a deliberate decision. It is rather a reflection of his very limited vocabulary, for him hoax is one of the few words he knows he can use when something is in his view "bad" or "negative". That is why he seems to use it inappropriately.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 04:27 AM   #317
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It is a much more peaceful and quiet world around me, thoroughly enjoying this pandemic
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Old 3rd April 2020, 04:42 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
It is a much more peaceful and quiet world around me, thoroughly enjoying this pandemic
Yeah, they say even Nevsky Prospect is pretty deserted, weird times.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 05:20 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is not a deliberate decision. It is rather a reflection of his very limited vocabulary, for him hoax is one of the few words he knows he can use when something is in his view "bad" or "negative". That is why he seems to use it inappropriately.
Exactly what I said some days ago. Sheesh.
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Old 3rd April 2020, 05:21 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Yeah, they say even Nevsky Prospect is pretty deserted, weird times.
But not up near Admiralty. That's where the troll-farm is, apparently.
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