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Tags Bolivia issues , elon musk , US-Bolivia relations

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Old 31st July 2020, 02:50 PM   #1
ChristianProgressive
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Elon Musk confirms his support for fascism

With his response to a tweet calling him out for his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company.

His response to being called out: "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it."

Positively disgusting, but hardly surprising for a Trump and Kanye supporter.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:02 PM   #2
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Elon does have something of an odd sense of humour. Have you considered he might be joking?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
Elon does have something of an odd sense of humour. Have you considered he might be joking?
Ah, the Trump defense of the indefensible...
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:05 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
With his response to a tweet calling him out for his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company.

His response to being called out: "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it."

Positively disgusting, but hardly surprising for a Trump and Kanye supporter.
When there is no chance of suffering consequences, why not say and do every horrible thing that pops into your head? Look at Jeff Bezos. All the evil, predatory things he and his company have done are popping up and being revealed to the public, and nothing will happen to him or Amazon because he's too big to jail. Zuckerberg is happy to let Facebook remain a festering pit of lies and hate because that's what keeps people coming back. He's got ads to sell and there is no chance that anyone will hold him responsible for any horrible outcomes directly traceable to Facebook. Again, too big to jail.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:10 PM   #5
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^Good point. Something that needs to be addressed if we ever get a legitimate government back in power.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Ah, the Trump defense of the indefensible...
Ah, the Liberal pearl clutching the moment they hear something they disagree with.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
Ah, the Liberal pearl clutching the moment they hear something they disagree with.
You can stow that ********. Every time the US messes with another nation's government it turns out horribly, usually for decades or more. Further, the horror with which people view the idea that Russia interfered in our last presidential election (whether they believe it happened or not) ought to be a lesson that we should keep our stupid ******* faces out of other nations' internal politics.

And we absolutely should try, convict, then imprison any private US citizen who decides on their own hook to support coups in other countries. Stripping them of the bulk of their assets would be a good idea to make sure the message really gets through to rich scumbags who believe they should be able to get away with anything.
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:08 PM   #8
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Any chance of a rival to Facebook or Google coming along, maybe have a motto of "Do no evil"? If they got rid of advertising and charged a subscription then all problems would be solved.
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Any chance of a rival to Facebook or Google coming along, maybe have a motto of "Do no evil"? If they got rid of advertising and charged a subscription then all problems would be solved.

Vetted, static ads only would be fine - no videos, no HTML, only images; targeted ads based only on the content of the site, not the user. Zero user data collected.
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Old 31st July 2020, 10:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
Vetted, static ads only would be fine - no videos, no HTML, only images; targeted ads based only on the content of the site, not the user. Zero user data collected.
You just ruined most of the revenue of the sites. If they cannot give you tailored ads then most of the ads will be ignored. They need to give the users ads that they will click and take action.

I maintain that the only real answer is a subscription service for Facebook. Then no ads at all. And so you will have much more real estate on the screen. Like have two columns for Facebook. One is the original post, and the other are all the comments for that post. Anything more would be optional.
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Old 31st July 2020, 11:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
With his response to a tweet calling him out for his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company.

His response to being called out: "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it."

Positively disgusting, but hardly surprising for a Trump and Kanye supporter.
Yeah... err, no

He's obviously trolling.... and you obviously fell for it!
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
When there is no chance of suffering consequences, why not say and do every horrible thing that pops into your head? Look at Jeff Bezos. All the evil, predatory things he and his company have done are popping up and being revealed to the public, and nothing will happen to him or Amazon because he's too big to jail. Zuckerberg is happy to let Facebook remain a festering pit of lies and hate because that's what keeps people coming back. He's got ads to sell and there is no chance that anyone will hold him responsible for any horrible outcomes directly traceable to Facebook. Again, too big to jail.

I dunno if Amazon or Facebook are more "evil, predatory" etc. than Walmart, Microsoft, Apple, Wells Fargo, Citibank, etc., etc. The laws not only allow their behavior, but literally require corporations to maximize returns to stockholders above all else. If the monopoly laws had been enforced all along, or had been revised as the economic landscape changed, a lot would be different today.
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Old 1st August 2020, 08:18 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
You just ruined most of the revenue of the sites. If they cannot give you tailored ads then most of the ads will be ignored. They need to give the users ads that they will click and take action.
Maybe. A search engine could still show ads based on the current search terms. A YouTube video could still display ads based on the content of the video.

Anyway, most of the tailored ads I get are after I have already bought the targeted thing. I research and buy a folding bike, all the while seeing zero or few ads for folding bikes. Then, for the next three weeks, almost every ad I see is for folding bikes. It seems the effect of the tailoring is the reverse of its intent. They are almost always showing me ads for things I have already bought, and definitely will not buy again any time soon.
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Old 1st August 2020, 08:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
Ah, the Liberal pearl clutching the moment they hear something they disagree with.
But he wasn't responding to a disagreement. He was responding to your facile suggestion that Musk's comment is a joke.
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Old 1st August 2020, 09:09 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
With his response to a tweet calling him out for his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company.

His response to being called out: "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it."

Positively disgusting, but hardly surprising for a Trump and Kanye supporter.
Any sources for "his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company"?
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Old 1st August 2020, 09:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But he wasn't responding to a disagreement. He was responding to your facile suggestion that Musk's comment is a joke.
You think he was being serious? I'm with smartcooky, it's a patently obvious bit of trolling.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You think he was being serious?
I don't know. I'm simply stating the fact about the post in question.

Quote:
I'm with smartcooky, it's a patently obvious bit of trolling.
Smartooky's a great guy but he is very defensive about Musk.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:34 AM   #18
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Considering their positions in the world, a Fascist state is good for them. The last thing they want is a democracy.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah... err, no

He's obviously trolling.... and you obviously fell for it!
No, he's not. Elon Musk isn't a troll, he's just someone who suffers from a lack of self-censorship. This is "pedo guy" part deux.
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Old 1st August 2020, 11:20 AM   #20
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Unfortunately, Musk is unlikely to end up like William Walker.

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William Walker (May 8, 1824 – September 12, 1860) was an American physician, lawyer, journalist and mercenary who organized several private military expeditions into Mexico and Central America, with the intent of establishing English-speaking colonies under his personal control, an enterprise then known as "filibustering". Walker usurped the presidency of Nicaragua in 1856 and ruled until 1857, when he was defeated by a coalition of Central American armies. He returned in an attempt to reestablish his control of the region and was captured and executed by the government of Honduras in 1860.
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Old 1st August 2020, 11:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
You can stow that ********. Every time the US messes with another nation's government it turns out horribly, usually for decades or more. Further, the horror with which people view the idea that Russia interfered in our last presidential election (whether they believe it happened or not) ought to be a lesson that we should keep our stupid ******* faces out of other nations' internal politics.

And we absolutely should try, convict, then imprison any private US citizen who decides on their own hook to support coups in other countries. Stripping them of the bulk of their assets would be a good idea to make sure the message really gets through to rich scumbags who believe they should be able to get away with anything.
That's the part that gets me. I suppose Musk will be Musk, and he can say whatever nonsense he wants, but you'd think so many generations in which US intervention in South American governments has been a pretty unmitigated disaster, someone somewhere would have learned something.
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Old 1st August 2020, 11:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Ah, the Trump defense of the indefensible...
Hyperbole to the last, but still a fantasy world. Not everything some disagree with is fascism. Its just a really really convenient buzzword. Still a fail.
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But he wasn't responding to a disagreement. He was responding to your facile suggestion that Musk's comment is a joke.
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't know. I'm simply stating the fact about the post in question.

Smartooky's a great guy but he is very defensive about Musk.
Defensive or not, when taken in context, this was such an obvious bit of trolling, it defies belief that anyone fell for it, especially here, on this forum.

The tweet has been quoted out of that context... it was a reply to another twitterer trolling him... here is the full context and when you see it this way, the trolling aspect becomes clear and obvious.


Elon Musk@elonmusk (three tweets combined)
Another government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people imo. As a reminder, I’m in *favor* of universal basic income. Goal of government should be to maximize the happiness of the people. Giving each person money allows them to decide what meets their needs, rather than the blunt tool of legislation, which creates self-serving special interests. These [stimulus packages] are jammed to gills with special interests earmarks. If we do a stimulus at all, it should just be direct payments to consumers.

Armani @ historyofarmani
You know what wasnt in the best interest of people? the U.S. government organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium there.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
We are going to coup whoever we wish! Cope with it.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
Also, we get our lithium from Australia


For mine, obvious trolling was obvious. The Armani guy was being a dick, and Musk shut him down
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
With his response to a tweet calling him out for his role in advocating the overthrow of the legitimate government of Bolivia to secure a supply of lithium for his company.

His response to being called out: "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it."

Positively disgusting, but hardly surprising for a Trump and Kanye supporter.
It's a wonderful sentiment and long overdue. Bolivia has had its resources for far too long and needs dare I say, craves our invasion.

Also, Elon was likely trolling.
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
That's the part that gets me. I suppose Musk will be Musk, and he can say whatever nonsense he wants, but you'd think so many generations in which US intervention in South American governments has been a pretty unmitigated disaster, someone somewhere would have learned something.
It certainly shouldn't be a partisan issue, either. It should require just a quick look at the results obtained in the past which, time and time again, are terrible for everyone involved. The evidence is overwhelming that no matter how good the intentions might be (though the intentions are rarely that good at all), meddling with the governments of other nations barely works in the short term and always turns out horribly in the long term, even when the meddling works out as intended.
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No, he's not. Elon Musk isn't a troll, he's just someone who suffers from a lack of self-censorship. This is "pedo guy" part deux.
He is like his idol Tesla...one day he has a Brilliant idea....the next a batcrap crazy one.
I love what the guy is doing with Space X, but I cannot write off or hand wave away all the just plain crazy crap he says.
And my basic dislike and distrust for personality cults of any kind kicks in with all the blind worshippers he has.
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Defensive or not, when taken in context, this was such an obvious bit of trolling, it defies belief that anyone fell for it, especially here, on this forum.

The tweet has been quoted out of that context... it was a reply to another twitterer trolling him... here is the full context and when you see it this way, the trolling aspect becomes clear and obvious.


Elon Musk@elonmusk (three tweets combined)
Another government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people imo. As a reminder, I’m in *favor* of universal basic income. Goal of government should be to maximize the happiness of the people. Giving each person money allows them to decide what meets their needs, rather than the blunt tool of legislation, which creates self-serving special interests. These [stimulus packages] are jammed to gills with special interests earmarks. If we do a stimulus at all, it should just be direct payments to consumers.

Armani @ historyofarmani
You know what wasnt in the best interest of people? the U.S. government organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium there.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
We are going to coup whoever we wish! Cope with it.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
Also, we get our lithium from Australia


For mine, obvious trolling was obvious. The Armani guy was being a dick, and Musk shut him down
You are a smart guy. Sad to see you buying into a personality cult.
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Old 1st August 2020, 07:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You are a smart guy. Sad to see you buying into a personality cult.
What I'm not buying into is the preposterous idea that this was anying but pure trolling by Musk. Yes it was insensitive, yes it was ill-advised and somewhat tone deaf, but all said and done... it was trolling.
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Old 1st August 2020, 08:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Elon Musk@elonmusk
Aliens built the pyramids obv

There were also people too dense to know he was trolling then as well.
Quote:
Dr. Rania Al Mashat responded back to the tweet on Saturday, saying, “I follow your work with a lot of admiration. I invite you and Space X to explore the writings about how the Pyramids were built and also to check out the tombs of the pyramid-builders. Mr Musk, we are waiting for you.”



Egyptologist and former minister of antiquities Zahi Hawass also responded in a one-minute video, noting that Musk’s claims are “complete hallucination,” and added that there are inscriptions inside the Great Pyramid of the “workmen who built the pyramids, and I found the tombs of the pyramid builders, that tells everyone that they were Egyptians and not slaves.”
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Old 1st August 2020, 09:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
There were also people too dense to know he was trolling then as well.
Indeed. Even after he followed up with tweets that clearly indicated he knew humans actually built them, including a tweet with a link to a BBC article that gives a good idea of how it was done, the Hater Stupidati STILL didn't get that he was trolling.

Honestly, some people seriously have a burr up their arse about this guy.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 03:10 PM   #31
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SOme ofr us think his trolling is stupid and probably hurts his other more worth projects, and find his constant need for media attention to be childish.
But don't let me throw in doubt worship of Dear Leader.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 04:22 PM   #32
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Musk showed exactly who he is when he decided Tesla was an essential business and should stay open despite the pandemic. He gets no more slack from me, and that ridiculous position means that every time he says something stupid and/or evil, I will proceed from the assumption that he means it.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 06:42 PM   #33
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Musk showed exactly who he is when he decided Tesla was an essential business and should stay open despite the pandemic. He gets no more slack from me, and that ridiculous position means that every time he says something stupid and/or evil, I will proceed from the assumption that he means it.
Yeah, after a while, you can only troll and say and do enough stupid things until people are perfectly entitled to draw the conclusion that we should take bad things you write on Twitter on face value.

He's been in Twitter squabbles with a lot of people, denigrating actual scientists from a position of ignorance, calling people paedophiles, apparently doing some dodgy stock manipulation with his comments, lending his support to Kanye West's presidential bid, etc... and yes, opening Tesla during the pandemic.

"So what? He builds a lot of cool rockets!"

Yeah, you know who else built a lot of cool rockets?
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:07 PM   #34
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I like Elon Musk a lot, and honestly he has done a lot of good with pushing the popularity of electric vehicles, and Spacex is amazing, but he has also made a lot of questionable statements as well.

The Pyramids are obviously made by aliens????? Sigh.... come on Elon.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:12 PM   #35
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Armani @ historyofarmani
You know what wasnt in the best interest of people? the U.S. government organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium there.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
We are going to coup whoever we wish! Cope with it.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
Also, we get our lithium from Australia[/i]
Thanks for that. In context we see that Musk was being ironical, so the out of context quote in the OP was a deliberate misrepresentation.

Originally Posted by Babbylonian
Musk showed exactly who he is when he decided Tesla was an essential business and should stay open despite the pandemic. He gets no more slack from me, and that ridiculous position means that every time he says something stupid and/or evil, I will proceed from the assumption that he means it.
And that ridiculous position means any time you assert that someone 'means it' I will presume you didn't bother to check.

Musk didn't handle that situation well, but I will cut him some slack because he is under enormous pressure and has many detractors who would love to see him fail (not least the fossil fuel industry and gas car manufacturers). He could have taken the 1.5 billion he got from PayPal and retired to a life of luxury, but instead risked it all on saving the planet. With such high stakes it's not surprising he decided Tesla was an essential business. To him it is, and I think that clouded his judgement.

A person with the kind of personality required to achieve what Musk has done is likely to have some character flaws. It's no excuse for his behavior and you are absolutely right to call him out on it, but going from there to asserting that 'stupid and/or evil' is 'exactly who he is' is not right.

The sad thing about your jumping to conclusions over this tweet is that Musk was actually arguing in favor of a universal basic income (a position he has voiced support for before). Musk is politically moderate and certainly not a Trump sycophant. But this is not the message some people want you to hear - and you fell for it.
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Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 3rd August 2020 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Defensive or not, when taken in context, this was such an obvious bit of trolling, it defies belief that anyone fell for it, especially here, on this forum.

The tweet has been quoted out of that context... it was a reply to another twitterer trolling him... here is the full context and when you see it this way, the trolling aspect becomes clear and obvious.


Elon Musk@elonmusk (three tweets combined)
Another government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people imo. As a reminder, I’m in *favor* of universal basic income. Goal of government should be to maximize the happiness of the people. Giving each person money allows them to decide what meets their needs, rather than the blunt tool of legislation, which creates self-serving special interests. These [stimulus packages] are jammed to gills with special interests earmarks. If we do a stimulus at all, it should just be direct payments to consumers.

Armani @ historyofarmani
You know what wasnt in the best interest of people? the U.S. government organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium there.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
We are going to coup whoever we wish! Cope with it.

Elon Musk@elonmusk
Also, we get our lithium from Australia


For mine, obvious trolling was obvious. The Armani guy was being a dick, and Musk shut him down


OMG!!!! He's going to organize a coup d'etat in Australia!!!
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:39 PM   #37
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
OMG!!!! He's going to organize a coup d'etat in Australia!!!

Yup... "We are going to coup whoever we wish! Cope with it."
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:42 PM   #38
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Musk didn't handle that situation well, but I will cut him some slack because he is under enormous pressure and has many detractors who would love to see him fail (not least the fossil fuel industry and gas car manufacturers). He could have taken the 1.5 billion he got from PayPal and retired to a life of luxury, but instead risked it all on saving the planet. With such high stakes it's not surprising he decided Tesla was an essential business. To him it is, and I think that clouded his judgement.
You've really guzzled that Kool-Aid. He wanted his factory open because he wanted money. Specifically, if something terrible happened to Tesla's stock price, he could have lost out on a monstrous payday. He didn't. He doesn't give a single **** about his employees. Period.

Quote:
A person with the kind of personality required to achieve what Musk has done is likely to have some character flaws. It's no excuse for his behavior and you are absolutely right to call him out on it, but going from there to asserting that 'stupid and/or evil' is 'exactly who he is' is not right.
He's stupid and evil. He proves it regularly. Again, his actions regarding the pandemic prove it. Tesla was in no danger of imminent failure, but he kept his business open anyway. **** him forever.
Quote:
The sad thing about your jumping to conclusions over this tweet is that Musk was actually arguing in favor of a universal basic income (a position he has voiced support for before). Musk is politically moderate and certainly not a Trump sycophant. But this is not the message some people want you to hear - and you fell for it.
Hey, his opinion of Trump is irrelevant to what I'm talking about. He could be rabidly anti-Trump and still be a piece of ****. The truth, though, is that he bears a not insignificant resemblance to the scumbag-in-chief. His baseless pedophilia accusations against someone who disagreed with him (and who was trying to save human lives) marks him as the same sort of malignant, narcissistic bully.

Love him if you want. He's a total write-off to me.
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Old 3rd August 2020, 08:48 PM   #39
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Thanks for that. In context we see that Musk was being ironical, so the out of context quote in the OP was a deliberate misrepresentation.
Indeed, but what I find more disturbing is that some people are just too damned stupid to see this for themselves. How does that saying go...

"Obvious troll is obvious"?

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Musk didn't handle that situation well, but I will cut him some slack because he is under enormous pressure and has many detractors who would love to see him fail (not least the fossil fuel industry and gas car manufacturers). He could have taken the 1.5 billion he got from PayPal and retired to a life of luxury, but instead risked it all on saving the planet. With such high stakes it's not surprising he decided Tesla was an essential business. To him it is, and I think that clouded his judgement.
"Tall Poppy Syndrome"

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
A person with the kind of personality required to achieve what Musk has done is likely to have some character flaws. It's no excuse for his behavior and you are absolutely right to call him out on it, but going from there to asserting that 'stupid and/or evil' is 'exactly who he is' is not right.
"The fine line between genius and insanity"

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The sad thing about your jumping to conclusions over this tweet is that Musk was actually arguing in favor of a universal basic income (a position he has voiced support for before). Musk is politically moderate and certainly not a Trump sycophant. But this is not the message some people want you to hear - and you fell for it.
"Hook, line and sinker"
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Old 3rd August 2020, 09:57 PM   #40
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Judging by Wikipedia, Morales was becoming a dictator by rigging elections, that's why he was kicked out.
Don't really see how that's fascist unless you consider anyone to your right a fascist.
Seeing how much socialism failed in another South American country, Venezuela, there's now potential for improvement in Bolivia.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Thanks for that. In context we see that Musk was being ironical, so the out of context quote in the OP was a deliberate misrepresentation.
Interesting, so this thread is just ********.

I wonder if supporting Trump and Kanye is just part of his personality, since Biden said he would follow AOC's economic plan of replacing every single gas car in America with an electric one with a budget of 2T$. Then again it's most likely a politician's lie, since for one the electric car technology isn't there yet.
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