|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
10th May 2013, 11:52 AM | #321 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,212
|
Wrong. If you do not understand this you should. The truth has no political affiliations or aspirations, it cannot be bent by belief, it has no masters, nor is it open to debate. It remains simply the truth. Ergo. There can be no "clouds" as you suggest as there is no air. The dust is not supported by this medium, therefore the dust follows a trajectory determined by the action of the wheels with the dust and the local lunar gravity etc. OK Think of it as many thousand of tiny golf balls being played by many thousands of number 9 irons. Do you get it? |
10th May 2013, 11:58 AM | #322 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
The geologists were ecstatic. This is why we get better science when we send intelligent, creative, curious humans on exploration missions.
Especially on Apollo 11 where there was no precedent for lunar surface operations, the flight plan wasn't etched in stone. According to Aldrin's debriefing Each astronaut then goes on to describe many departures from the checklist order and the reasons for it. This was absolutely invaluable, and the reason for debriefing. The mission planners and instructors needed this feedback regarding what worked and what didn't. Armstrong and Aldrin were the first to try these checklists on the lunar surface, and NASA trusted them to note things that may have made sense back in someone's office on Earth -- or in the training rooms in full gravity, artificial light, and so forth -- but which didn't make sense once everything was apparent. In this case Armstrong found that the LEC (the system of straps and pulleys used to ferry equipment down from the LM cabin) didn't work too well in lesser gravity, and was hard to use. The lesser weight of the straps meant there was too much slack, which meant they tangled more. So once he got it sorted out and working, he wanted to get all the equipment down at once. Otherwise he would have had to tie off his end of the strap and go do the contingency sample in daylight, then walk back and figure out the LEC all over again. That meant getting the camera down earlier than expected, and the only place to put the camera safely was on the RCU (chest unit). Hence he took a brief pan while the camera was attached. |
10th May 2013, 12:20 PM | #323 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:33 PM | #324 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
|
Do not need to wait the LRO has shown the pictures:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/revisited/ |
10th May 2013, 03:35 PM | #325 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
Apparently so. You have taken it upon yourself to offer corrections.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
10th May 2013, 03:37 PM | #326 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:41 PM | #327 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:43 PM | #328 |
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:43 PM | #329 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 819
|
|
__________________
"You're likely to be the next one to get sucked up in a spaceship and butt-diddled and dropped off at the Seven Eleven." mayday "If you want to see what baby oil does to lactating breasts pm me your email." mayday |
|
10th May 2013, 03:44 PM | #330 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:47 PM | #331 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
HonoluluFilly, I can't help notice you backing away from the guidance and navigation question. You do realize that vast majority of space flight is unaccelerated, don't you? You do realize that the vast majority of state-vector manipulation is integrating an orbital model, don't you?
I also can't help notice you backing away from the Armstrong photography question. Did you finally locate the crew debriefing and realize that the flight plan and checklists were not as sacrosanct as you told us they must have been? |
10th May 2013, 03:47 PM | #332 |
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:49 PM | #333 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
No, I'm calling you on your hopelessly naive physics claim. You are claiming that irradiated postage stamps would somehow be detectably altered. I'm going to pin you down on what exactly you think those alterations would be. My guess is that you don't have the faintest clue and that you're going to continue to wave your hands in the hope of avoiding scrutiny.
|
10th May 2013, 03:51 PM | #334 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:52 PM | #335 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:54 PM | #336 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
|
Apollo 15 was not the only mission that carried objects to the Moon that were later distributed to people on Earth. Michael Collins wrote about this in Carrying The Fire (Chapter 11). He said he carried mementoes in his Personal Preference Kit that belonged to other people, including a half-inch long container with 50 tiny ivory elephants in it that an unnamed man would give to his co-workers later. HonoluluFilly, why wasn't "everybody" upset about this? Maybe because your theory doesn't have merit? Just asking.
P.S. The word is "moi," not "muah." And we have no obligation to respect your credentials if you refuse to say what they are. |
10th May 2013, 03:55 PM | #337 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:56 PM | #338 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:58 PM | #339 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 03:59 PM | #340 |
Muse
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 700
|
Yeah, but "outrank" is such a vague term. He could be better as chess than you, for example. Or maybe he wears more expensive socks.
|
10th May 2013, 03:59 PM | #341 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
As I said, I do this for a living. Sir Isaac and I are on very good professional terms.
I will point out again that most spaceflight is reckoned according to orbital models and trajectories that do not exercise the accelerometers, and that accelerated flight is relatively rare in a spacecraft's mission. Therefore reconcile that with your claims that all guidance and navigation systems must double-integrate the acceleration. |
10th May 2013, 04:00 PM | #342 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Debunking Linkbarf
Posts: 761
|
X-rays from where? The sun? How exactly do soft x-rays penetrate anything thicker than a tissue paper?
Sounds like more poop to me. Ask your friends/wife/girlfriend/blah blah zzzzzzzz tedious and obvious, under what circumstances stamps would get any radiation of any note whilst inside the Apollo space craft. |
__________________
The less they know the more they blow. |
|
10th May 2013, 04:02 PM | #343 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 04:03 PM | #344 |
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
|
Can you quantify for us the amount of x-ray emissions that a) are put out by the sun and b) would get through the attenuation of the spacecraft? Then c) what effect x-rays would have on postage stamps? In light of the paucity of your case I would be willing to allow for effects on either printing or glue.
|
10th May 2013, 04:04 PM | #345 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 04:05 PM | #346 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 04:06 PM | #347 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
10th May 2013, 04:13 PM | #348 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Debunking Linkbarf
Posts: 761
|
There is no "perhaps" about it. Solar x-rays are as strong as a baby's fart*.
You are as obvious as you are tedious. Do you come from Alabama and do you ride a bike with a banjo on your knee? Doesn't being wrong so often and so badly, ever register with you? * absent of CME activity |
__________________
The less they know the more they blow. |
|
10th May 2013, 04:23 PM | #349 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 3,668
|
|
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
|
10th May 2013, 05:01 PM | #350 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 482
|
|
__________________
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension. -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory. -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong. |
|
11th May 2013, 01:38 AM | #351 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,830
|
If you are going to try and reproduce the alleged effects on stamps you need to reproduce the same conditions.
Put your sheet of stamps in a tin can then leave them outside. Report back. You could even be really brave and get a hospital to x-ray the tin, see how that works. Oh if only you had access to medical facilities... |
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
|
11th May 2013, 02:05 AM | #352 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
|
|
11th May 2013, 03:48 AM | #353 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 6,119
|
You misread what the sock/troll wrote; Haleiwa is a town on the opposite side of Oahu from Honolulu. (I only knew that due to my having seen Tora! Tora! Tora! and having read At Dawn We Slept several times each. Haleiwa was the location of a small US Army Air Force satellite airfield that the Japanese didn't know about, and thus failed to attack.) |
__________________
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz |
|
11th May 2013, 04:53 AM | #354 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,041
|
|
11th May 2013, 06:47 AM | #355 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 370
|
Right, from the latest iteration of his "we were just talking about this" scenario: "My friends and I came up with a new conspiracy angle on Apollo sitting around the wall at Haleiwa last evening."
I'm really wondering where this idea that stamp gum can be used as a sensitive radiation detector came from. The closest thing I can come up with is the "gum printing" technique which requires mixing with a dichromate salt followed by fairly intense UV exposure, like extended exposure to bright sunlight. Looking around online, it otherwise looks like gum arabic is actually known for tolerance of ionizing radiation (to be specific, gamma radiation at very high doses for sterilization purposes) with little effect. |
11th May 2013, 07:03 AM | #356 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 991
|
I vaguely remember that all or most Moon landing missions carried stamps authorized by the government but the Apollo 15 guys carried extra to sell for their own profit. Anybody else recall that?
|
__________________
Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess |
|
11th May 2013, 08:52 AM | #357 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 779
|
So....."Radiation" is bad for the adhesive gum on the back of postage stamps, eh? Good thing aerospace technology doesn't use adhesives anywhere, right? It is all assembled in the same ways as consumer goods and stuffs...no adhesives there, no sir!
|
11th May 2013, 08:55 AM | #358 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 779
|
This reminds me a lot of the interminable "The film would have melted!" arguments. Because of course it is perfectly natural to expect a roll of photographic film to melt, catch fire, turn so radioactive it glows, etc., etc....while in a camera held by a far more fragile astronaut.
|
11th May 2013, 09:36 AM | #359 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,830
|
And lots of other things besides. The issue was not taking stamps, it was taking unauthorised stamps.
http://www.spaceflownartifacts.com/f...lo_covers.html |
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
|
11th May 2013, 09:57 AM | #360 |
Scholar
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 69
|
I am probably going to get shot down on this but here goes. I took 'A Level' physics back in the day (UK exam taken at 18) but I am just a little lost, possibly due to translation. I do not back Honolulufilly and yes I think that P1K is back but I don't quite follow the acceleration argument. I thought that an object in orbit was always under acceleration due to the vectors involved because of gravity. Am I missing part of the argument here or have I just misread a post? For the record I watched the moon landings aged 10 on a tiny mono TV. I believed it then and I believe it now.
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|