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20th September 2017, 01:51 PM | #201 |
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This isn't even an argument. It's nothing. Worthless verbiage.
Except you've been given the following names, for starters, and in the case of Krzepicki and Rabinowicz a long analysis of their testimonies: Abraham Krzepicki/Jacob Rabinowitz, Kazimierz Sakowicz, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, David Oleré, Anton Schmid, Stanislaw Szmmajzner Which reminds me . . . how you coming with details on your claims about forgery and torture? >> Who did the forgery, and when did they start? How did they persuade various Nazis to admit to it and, as a consequence, die? How were all the supporting documents found in archives on both sides of the Iron Curtain forged? When were they forged, who did the work, how did they get the documents into archives? >> Tell us all about the torture of the defendants in the Einsatzgruppen trial (NMT, trial IX). Tell us who was tortured, who tortured these men and when, what the torture consisted of, what the aim was of the torture, how you know about the torture, and how the alleged torture figured in the witness' testimony and in the convictions. Cat got you tongue, so to speak? You like to claim a lot . . . and then change the subject . . . LOL |
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20th September 2017, 01:54 PM | #202 |
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Stop telling porkies. Not only did I give Jewish eyewitnesses but I gave German eyewitnesses as well.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11952232 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post11998260 |
20th September 2017, 01:59 PM | #203 |
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It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.
She nailed it. Try it, it's easy. |
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20th September 2017, 02:00 PM | #204 |
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Thanks for these links, oldies but goodies . . . and for the reminder that Saggy has also refused to answer what I asked him in this post about 7 additional witness accounts: how is each (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?
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20th September 2017, 02:01 PM | #205 |
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You statement, to which I responded was not about Wiesel - it referred to "any of the witness testimony." You've been given names of witnesses to discuss - repeatedly - and just as repeatedly refused to discuss them. And we've shown how dishonest and ill informed your posts on your favorite witnesses are . . .
Strange I won't take the word of your perhaps non-existent middle school daughter . . . As to "trying it" with Wiesel, already did: |
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20th September 2017, 02:04 PM | #206 |
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20th September 2017, 02:11 PM | #207 |
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I believe (e) all of the above applies only to the Jews. However, Saggy also believes one can make an "Heroic Lie"-like padding out your C.V. telling people on the internet that you were involved in designing weapon systems, things of that nature are examples of "Heroic Lies". And they are never told by Jews.
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20th September 2017, 02:16 PM | #208 |
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More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.
Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course. For any non-hasbara, try it. 'Night' is online .... Night |
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20th September 2017, 02:30 PM | #209 |
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Saggy, enjoyable as this is, and convinced as I am that if you had even an 8th grader's knowledge about the war and genocide it'd be an improvement over your current state, I am not going to debate with you an 8th grader's thoughts about the Holocaust. Especially not when you are so eager not to discuss this, any of these topics, the questions in this post, the photographs you requested, the physical evidence for Chełmno, this photograph, and so on.
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20th September 2017, 02:39 PM | #210 |
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20th September 2017, 02:41 PM | #211 |
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20th September 2017, 03:44 PM | #212 |
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It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.
And, while it is impossible to tell if someone has had hasbara training, it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara. Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara. The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject, because the goal is to make rational discussion impossible, and the easiest way to do that is to just generate endless idiotic insults. And even if the hasbara is knowledgeable, he/she is not bound by the rules of common debate, and can inject mindless idiocy and demeaning insult at will, as is the universal prerogative of the chosen. And, I don't think anyone would characterize the 'discussion' in this thread as rational and well-reasoned. Which means that the hasbara have accomplished their goal, in spades. So, for the most part I don't respond to hasbara, e.g. your endless idiotic 'questions', except to make a point of my own. However, if anything interesting does appear, not like, say, Bloble using a flamethrower to disappear bodies, or something that represents a challenge, I try to respond to the best of my ability, just to have a point of interest beyond bashing the hoax. |
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20th September 2017, 03:50 PM | #213 |
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Address the argument, not the arguer.
"It's is" not - and I have not once, for example, made a post in this forum "defending Israel." You just called yourself a de-facto hasbara. You just wrote for the 2nd time that you engage in hasbara. You're not making any sense, Saggy. Not your posts, true. Again you do it! Friend of Hilter's? You ignored the evidence cited in favor of baseless incredulity and childish insults about "hasbaras." |
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20th September 2017, 03:59 PM | #214 |
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Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.
But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while. |
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20th September 2017, 04:10 PM | #215 |
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You do need to take a break, you keep digging your hole deeper.
I will let others, who know about Israel more than I do, reply to the rest - except to say that of course you can't cite a single post of mine here, or in other forums, defending Israel. When I post about the Holocaust I think about history, not the present. It's as simple as that. |
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20th September 2017, 04:54 PM | #216 |
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20th September 2017, 06:18 PM | #217 |
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20th September 2017, 06:32 PM | #218 |
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You can always talk to me, Saggy. I'm not a hasbro.
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I think I'm already bored. Saggy, you essentially ignore anything that we show you. Your response is it stick your fingers in your ears and plow on mindlessly, like some sort of denier tank. Frankly I'd drop the whole thing but I'm fascinated by the BS you come up with. It also encourages me to update my list: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopi...7156&start=880 If you honestly want a discussion we can have one but you actually need to pay attention. |
20th September 2017, 07:50 PM | #219 |
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You are - and proud of it - ignorant about the history of the Third Reich, WWII, and Nazi crimes and your point of view is shaped by an anti-Semitic agenda, not familiarity with the wide range of sources for the Holocaust. Frankly, what the Nazis did is a matter of evidence - not views about Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. Your anti-Semitism is so thorough that you read a post discussing non-Jewish victims of the Nazis as a sob story of the usually Jewish victims.
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20th September 2017, 07:50 PM | #220 |
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20th September 2017, 08:29 PM | #221 |
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"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid." |
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20th September 2017, 08:30 PM | #222 |
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I call nonsense. It matters - and that's why we post about it - when the perpetrators are Ustasha, Arrow Cross, Lithuanian partisans, Latvian militia men, Romanian military units and killing squads, or others. Just as it also matters when the victims of extra-legal violence, war crimes and crimes against humanity were Poles, Russians, Roma, Serbs, American GIs, Italians, Japanese, or Germans . . .
Pleases stop making things up about what others on this forum say and believe. |
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20th September 2017, 08:33 PM | #223 |
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Your reading is limited - you might want to look up the A-B Aktion and Operation Tannenburg or read about the priests held at Dachau or find out about T-4 and 14f13, for starters - and you rarely post anything honest on this forum. It was not a mistake: it was your bias coloring your reading.
Your selective animus toward victims of crimes is, however, matched by your fact-free, disingenuous repetition. |
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20th September 2017, 08:37 PM | #224 |
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Provide one shred of physical or documentary evidence that anyone was murdered at Auschwitz. You cannot do it.
Then read about the role played by Nazi Judge Konrad Morgen, who led more that 800 investigations of crimes by the SS in the camps and prosecuted 200+ cases, resulting in many convictions and the executions of two camp commandants. The Nazis actually prosecuted crime in the camps, as opposed to the US at Abu Graib, for example, on any of the other secret US prisons around the world. |
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20th September 2017, 08:40 PM | #225 |
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20th September 2017, 08:43 PM | #226 |
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You do realize that the death books pertain only to prisoners registered at the three Auschwitz camps? Those gassed on arrival were not registered as that process occurred after the separation or working and non-working inmates. This has been known to scholars for decades and you are behind the curve.
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20th September 2017, 08:44 PM | #227 |
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20th September 2017, 08:48 PM | #228 |
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I'm well aware of that Leo, that is, that there is not a shred of documentary of physical evidence of the holohoax at Auschwitz, or anywhere else, just the endless Jewish lies and false and absurd 'confessions'.
Since the entire holohoax is based on 'testimony' of Jewish eyewitnesses, that is why it is important to examine that testimony closely, and why I will continue to present the testmony of the most important witnesses in subsequent posts. Jewish testimony is invariably false to the point of absurdity, as we have seen with the witnesses discussed to this point. |
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20th September 2017, 08:54 PM | #229 |
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Morgen prosecuted mainly corruption in the camps, an approach which Morgen himself called "a possible way of proceeding." That course was to hit the perpetrators he could with corruption charges, since he couldn't go after them directly for the mass murder and since, in Morgen's view, the debased process inevitably debased those participating in it and would lead them to corrupt activities. When Morgen tried to investigate Maximilian Grabner, head of the Political Department (Gestapo) in Auschwitz, Gestapo Müller summoned him to Gestapo headquarters to chew him out for his having "no understanding of state police matters." Faced with a not-so-senior SS judicial official questioning the state policy of murder of the Jews, Müller went ballistic and threw Morgen out of his office in the midst of his tirade against him. Interestingly, during 1944 he tried to arrest and prosecute Eichmann (!) - on account of the pilfering of a bag of diamonds (likely done by someone else) - using any pretext he could come up with to get at the perpetrators of the FS. He also went after Höss, using the Hodys affair.
Pohl despised Morgen. He repeatedly went to Himmler complaining about Morgen's work and he impeded his investigations. In summer 1944 - at a time when Morgen had filed his report on Buchenwald and prepared an indictment against the defendants, had sent evidence against Eichmann to an SS court, was preparing his case against Grabner at Auschwitz - Pohl issued an order to the KL commandants saying that no SS judges were to be granted access to the camps without the judge having been granted an access card by Pohl. The SS judge for the special court established to try SS cases was at the time warning Morgen to back off - enough that Morgen wrote his fiancee about the poisoned relations between him and the judge. As things heated up, Himmler granted Morgen a promotion - and an enforced 3-week vacation during which he was forbidden to work on his cases. Himmler also had his top legal adviser discuss with Morgen "fundamental questions about the conduct of investigations." A warrant may have been issued for his arrest by the RHSA. In the fall of 1944, at the Buchenwald trial, Morgen felt as though he were the one charged. The outcome of the Buchenwald trial saw Koch receiving the death penalty - but only for corruption, not for illegal killings. Ilse Koch was acquitted. Hoven, a physician at Buchenwald and one of those charged, was not convicted but remained in prison facing re-trial. The Grabner Auschwitz trial was abandoned. Earlier in 1944 Müller, Eichmann's boss, had instructed Morgen not to pursue the case against Eichmann because Eichmann was "carrying out a special secret task of utmost importance entrusted to him by the Führer." And Morgen's case against Höss stalled. Allied bombing forced Morgen to move his office to Bavaria in the fall. He took his mandated vacation in November and, on his return, was reassigned off his cases to Crakow, which he fled in early 1945 to begin a series of moves to avoid being taken by the Soviets. Just to be factual here, please tell Charles Graner that no one was prosecuted for the abuse at Abu Ghraib. |
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20th September 2017, 08:55 PM | #230 |
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I linked the archaeological investigation of Dr. Andreasz Kola in a previous thread. I will do so again here.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html https://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/Belzec1/bel100.html
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20th September 2017, 08:57 PM | #231 |
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20th September 2017, 09:06 PM | #232 | ||
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Without accepting your terminology (sob stories), for starters here is a page of testimonies from survivors of Ustasha predations: Serbian Holocaust - Voices of Survivors. I suggest reading for a Serbian pov Srdja Trifkovic, Ustasa: Croatian Fascism and European Politics, 1929-1945. Barry Lituchy, Jasenovac and the Holocaust in Yugoslavia has a great deal of source material and articles on the annihilation of Serbs at the Jasenovac camp (I'm too tired to go find the book in my basement and type out excerpts). For Ustasha participation in the Holocaust, Goldstein & Goldstein, The Holocaust in Croatia. I realize, Saggy, that you don't want to have to find out what scholars and others have written in books, so I am posting these references for readers who may be interested. |
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20th September 2017, 09:08 PM | #233 |
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20th September 2017, 09:10 PM | #234 |
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20th September 2017, 09:10 PM | #235 |
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20th September 2017, 09:11 PM | #236 |
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20th September 2017, 09:16 PM | #237 |
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"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid." |
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20th September 2017, 09:47 PM | #238 |
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20th September 2017, 11:34 PM | #239 |
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21st September 2017, 01:43 AM | #240 |
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