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4th December 2020, 11:58 AM | #241 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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4th December 2020, 12:15 PM | #242 |
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4th December 2020, 01:04 PM | #243 |
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4th December 2020, 01:04 PM | #244 |
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4th December 2020, 01:09 PM | #245 |
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4th December 2020, 01:20 PM | #246 |
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From the Michigan court story above:
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4th December 2020, 01:32 PM | #247 |
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4th December 2020, 01:33 PM | #248 |
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4th December 2020, 02:06 PM | #249 |
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This is slightly inaccurate, as the referenced document is not the opinion of "judges," but rather the defendants' response to an emergency motion for an injunction, from plaintiffs. No decision has been rendered on the motion yet, or on the case to which it refers. But given the plaintiffs' many errors, you can probably guess the likely outcome.
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4th December 2020, 02:35 PM | #250 |
Illuminator
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Ambiguity gives the reader the task of filling in all the blanks.
Election rigged, voting machines were tampered with. Umm, pretty clear they were not if one accepts facts. Just " election rigged" let's any redneck yahoo decide why or how it was rigged by something they already believe. It must be true. Pretty cool psychology trick and effective if not overused. |
4th December 2020, 03:39 PM | #251 |
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Rather than unhinged, I'm more likely to attribute it to Trump trying to capitalize on his primary field of expertise - conning people. Repetition and playing on people's availability heuristic are some of the simplest and, in Trump's case, most cost-effective means of pushing his attempted con. As has been noted elsewhere, Trump's managed to raise over $200 million dollars after election day, seemingly on the basis of his rigged election claims.
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4th December 2020, 08:27 PM | #252 |
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From the even more nuttier CT thread
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...-order_ocr.pdf Really recommend reading the judgement, it goes through the allegations almost line by line and explains clearly the lack of supporting evidence. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th December 2020, 09:56 PM | #253 |
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5th December 2020, 03:13 AM | #254 |
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After only hearing her referred to as "Drunk Lady" or "Crazy Lady" and of course "Karen" in various places, I only just found out that her last name is "Carone" and there's a part of her testimony where she talks about "calling her manager over".
(time skipped to the appropriate moment) https://youtu.be/G2f3aw9rk30?t=88 Edited to add: There's a tiny voice at the back of my mind that wonders if she was pulling off an elaborate prank. Apparently, she wasn't under oath, so I don't think there would be any consequences. |
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"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor "I heard some things I can't prove from someone I don't know, and God dammit, that's enough for me." - Penny Arcade "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!" - Agatha Heterodyne |
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5th December 2020, 03:22 AM | #255 |
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5th December 2020, 03:46 AM | #256 |
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I was very interested in the part about expert witnesses - I was asking about this a couple of days ago. The judge was very careful to not dismiss out of hand the contestors' expert witnesses but used the established judgements to qualify their level of expertise and their credibility.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th December 2020, 04:17 AM | #257 |
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I'm getting more and more convinced that the Republicans used the Election Systems & Software (ES&S) to massively defraud Democrats in the Election, and their bashing of Dominon (which is the safer, better auditable system) is meant to distract and poison the well.
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5th December 2020, 05:48 AM | #258 |
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Some Republicans, at least. It honestly wouldn't be a surprise, at all, not least because that's been a very real concern as Republicans keep trying to pick more expensive and less verifiable election systems, and certain... oddities in numbers. Georgia Republicans did that with a bunch of Dominion machines over distinct objections from the Georgia Democrats, in particular.
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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5th December 2020, 06:49 AM | #259 |
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Eric Trump Tweets
@EricTrump “Legitimate ballots do not come packed in a suitcase” - @LaraLeaTrump |
5th December 2020, 09:09 AM | #260 |
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“Two years before she'd become the breakout star of the clown show Rudy Giuliani brought to Lansing this week, Mellissa Carone was sending her then-boyfriend's ex-wife graphic videos of the two of them having sex.
Police reports obtained by Deadline Detroit reveal obscenity and computer crime charges filed against the 33-year-old Grosse Pointe Woods mother stem from a harassment campaign she waged against a 42-year-old woman in 2018 and 2019...” The degeneracy and depravity of the Trump mob never fails to impress. |
5th December 2020, 09:25 AM | #261 |
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It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell |
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5th December 2020, 11:06 AM | #262 |
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Indeed, this is a well-written, concise application of the Dauber standard, as shaped by additional decisions. Pp. 24-25 are especially instructive. But pp. 12-14 show what a judge would be looking for were these same witnesses the subject of motions in limine to exclude them as experts.
In the cases of witnesses Baselice and Kamzol, the judge notes that their conclusions were drawn from data of essentially unknown provenance. Experts must show that any data they've collected to inform their opinions and conclusions must follow good practices of data management. We pile all that together as "methodology." You have to be able to demonstrate to a legal standard of credence that your method is reliable. Unlike the Frye standard, that method doesn't have to be "generally accepted." But it has to refer to known good principles of observation and analysis. Witness Gessler is non-credible in the judge's opinion because he did not verify information he collected that he had not personally observed. As the judge notes, affidavits are generally non-evidentiary because they do not subject the affidant to cross-examination. Mr Gessler's evidence is an affidavit summarizing other affidavits. As the judge explains later, first-hand knowledge is a critical element of expertise as the law recognizes it. In contrast, defendants' experts testified in deposition, so that the contestants' counsel could examine them on the record. This is automatically stronger evidence than mere affidavits. And Judge Russell uses formulaic language to express why he qualifies them as witnesses: they have relevant experience, are not overtly biased, and speak from first-hand knowledge. The key is that these factors were available for voir dire in the deposition. Questions and answers, for example, intended to expose bias become part of the deposition and part of the record. This allows a trier of fact to weigh the evidence more appropriately. In Dr. Herron's case, the judge goes on to note that other courts have examined him in the capacity of an expert witness and have found no reason to dismiss him. This can cut two ways, as in other cases witnesses can acquire the reputation of always being on one side of issues raised at law. This sets up the battle of commonly-called experts from case to case. As you note, the judge says he could have disqualified the contestants' witnesses on grounds either of hearsay or of failure to qualify under Daubert. But as Loss Leader pointed out in a thread from last year, judges are reluctant to set themselves up as authorities on what constitutes expertise in some field. So while there are criteria a judge is meant to apply, the decisions are often on the side of allowing the testimony and deferring the credibility issue to the trier of fact. Here, in a bench trial, the judge is both the gatekeeper for admissibility of expert opinion, but also the trier of fact. So he can accept (reluctantly) the proffered expertise of the constants' witnesses, but then in a different capacity he can give them little or no weight. This makes the decision far less likely to be challenged on appeal. A disqualification of a witness is appealable as an abuse of discretion. |
5th December 2020, 11:10 AM | #263 |
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5th December 2020, 11:21 AM | #264 |
Penultimate Amazing
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A "sworn affidavit" sounds very impressive to Trump supporters. After all, it's under penalty of perjury. But perjury isn't charged every time someone lies under oath. It's a heavy hammer, so it's generally reserved for cases in which the perjury leads to real, cognizable injury on the part of another party.
But as Judge Russell notes, you can't bring an affidavit into court and expect it to be taken as evidence. Just because the affidant was sworn when he made the statement doesn't suffice, because the defendant has the right to challenge evidence against him. That means putting the affidant under oath and allowing a cross-examination.
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5th December 2020, 11:31 AM | #265 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
25, wow! I am surprised there are so many. We have just begun to fight. Please send me a list of the 25 RINOS. I read the Fake News Washington Post as little as possible! Quote Tweet Philip Rucker @PhilipRucker The Washington Post surveyed all 249 Republicans in the House and Senate. Only 25 would acknowledge that Joe Biden is president-elect. https://washingtonpost.com/politics/...839_story.html |
5th December 2020, 11:32 AM | #266 |
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Trump Tweets
I will easily & quickly win Georgia if Governor @BrianKempGA or the Secretary of State permit a simple signature verification. Has not been done and will show large scale discrepancies. Why are these two “Republicans” saying no? If we win Georgia, everything else falls in place! See you tonight at 7PM, Georgia! |
5th December 2020, 11:37 AM | #267 |
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Yes, it must be true because no way could more people have wanted Biden than Trump. We know that because Trump said so.
Let that sink in for a while. It's not about "election rigged", that's just the conclusion. The real lie they are swallowing is that Trump has more support - because he said so. So the question is, why would they believe without question something that he cannot possibly know? Because they want to. But more than that, they need to believe that Trump is more popular and a winner, because their entire psyche depends on it. For years they have had to hide their true thoughts or put up with liberals calling them racist, misogynistic idiots. Trump fixed all that when he Made America Great Again, letting them proudly stand up to take their place as True Americans. But if Trump is actually a loser then he has been lying to them, and they are not only the racist, misogynistic idiots that liberals called them, but dupes as well. Can you imagine how humiliating that would be? Therefore it cannot be so - someone else must be trying to dupe them - not because it's true, but the alternative is too depressing to contemplate. This is not just a matter of believing something that's more comfortable for them, but the only way to avoid losing their self-respect and spiraling into a state of suicidal depression. Their very lives depend on it!
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5th December 2020, 11:38 AM | #268 |
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5th December 2020, 11:43 AM | #269 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th December 2020, 11:47 AM | #270 |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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5th December 2020, 11:51 AM | #271 |
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Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills. |
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5th December 2020, 12:15 PM | #272 |
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That pretty much sums up everything Bubba has been linking to lately.
Bubba, after dutifully checking out the links you were posting earlier, and finding the content to be... 1. bat-**** crazy, and/or 2. complete, verifiable falsehoods, and/or 3. lacking in what you claimed it said, and/or 4. the exact opposite of what you said, and/or 5. unsupportive of your claims, and/or 6. actually a debunking of your claims ... I have decided to simply smile and scroll onto the next post when I see you have posted another link. Bubba, none of this is an attack on you, its just an observation and a piece of advice. No-one here takes you seriously anymore. You have clearly not heard of "the boy who cried wolf", or if you have, the valuable lesson it gives has has been lost on you. If you keep presenting falsehoods and crazy stuff to this forum, eventually, people will regard you as a crazy liar. Even the usual suspects on this forum who come onto these threads to blindly defend Trump in all things, are notable by their absence - this election fraud stuff you are spamming is all too far off the wall even for them. |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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5th December 2020, 12:42 PM | #273 |
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A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group. "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost |
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5th December 2020, 12:43 PM | #274 |
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5th December 2020, 01:02 PM | #275 |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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5th December 2020, 01:20 PM | #276 |
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More fraud? The Trump and his morons kinda hafta find fraud first before they start blathering about more. But as usual, the incontinent incompetent in the White House gets everything ass-backwards like his idiot supporters.
Shot down at the election booth, shot down in court, humiliated at the fake hearings, this dysfunctional administration, and it's laughable legal team can't help but step on the garden rake, tines side up. |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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5th December 2020, 02:31 PM | #277 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
But you never got the signature verification! Your people are refusing to do what you ask. What are they hiding? At least immediately ask for a Special Session of the Legislature. That you can easily, and immediately, do. #Transparency Quote Tweet Brian Kemp @BrianKempGA As I told the President this morning, I’ve publicly called for a signature audit three times (11/20, 11/24, 12/3) to restore confidence in our election process and to ensure that only legal votes are counted in Georgia. #gapol twitter.com/realdonaldtrum… |
5th December 2020, 03:12 PM | #278 |
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Yep, your house of cards.
You have made no effort to produce the "complete statement" by Barr that you claimed to have, nor any explanation as to why you haven't, yet you continue to post other drivel. Therefore I conclude that you lied. California has now certified their results, and Joe Biden is officially the winner. No amount of flailing will change that. Your goose is cooked. |
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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5th December 2020, 03:27 PM | #279 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump Tweets
Between Governor @DougDucey of Arizona and Governor @BrianKempGA of Georgia, the Democrat Party could not be happier. They fight harder against us than do the Radical Left Dems. If they were with us, we would have already won both Arizona and Georgia... ...We received more LEGAL votes by far. All I can do is run, campaign, and be a good (great!) President – it is 100% up to the states to manage the election. Republicans will NEVER forget this. |
5th December 2020, 03:32 PM | #280 |
Troublesome Passenger
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Trump tweets:
Whine, bitch, piss, moan, cry, sob, whine, bitch, piss, moan, cry, sob, soil my pants, again . . . |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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