IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Deep State conspiracies , QAnon

Reply
Old 10th July 2021, 09:25 AM   #41
JesseCuster
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,903
JesseCuster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 02:15 AM   #42
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
Jackson Lahmeyer, a pastor from Oklahoma who is running for the US Senate (against GOP incumbent James Lankford who lost his party's support when he expressed doubt that the 2020 election was fraudulent) has been eagerly courting the QAnon vote as part of his campaign, even attending conspiracy-cons and associating with key QAnon figureheads like Lin Wood and (lately) Michael Flynn.

However, recently unwittingly made a fatal mistake that may cost him all of his easy-won support. Quite innocently, among the many campaign trail photographs that he has posted, he happened to include one of his daughter, and in that photo she happened to be wearing red shoes. This is a serious problem, because unbeknownst to Lahmeyer, at some point in the last few months QAnons have synthesized the belief that members of The Cabal photograph their children wearing red shoes as a coded message to other The Cabal members indicating that they are ritually molesting and sex-trafficking that child for Satan. So this full-MAGA Trump-worshipping church pastor is now having to defend himself online against a rapidly spreading rumor among the people that he has been pandering to that he is really a Cabal conspirator who secretly worships Satan and eats babies.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 02:42 AM   #43
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
attending conspiracy-cons
QA-con.

Quote:
QAnons have synthesized the belief that members of The Cabal photograph their children wearing red shoes as a coded message to other The Cabal members indicating that they are ritually molesting and sex-trafficking that child for Satan.
Gods, this makes so much not any sense that it makes anti-sense. What's this CT obsesseion with the conspirators broadcasting their crimes? I mean, obviously so that the CTers will know of it, but from the CTers' perspective, what's the purpose of this?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward



Last edited by Belz...; 17th July 2021 at 02:44 AM.
Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 06:07 AM   #44
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,480
I love it when stupidity has consequences.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 07:06 AM   #45
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
And there it was. I thought that red shoes were the only way to get out of Oz. Or was that another colour?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 09:59 AM   #46
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What's this CT obsesseion with the conspirators broadcasting their crimes? I mean, obviously so that the CTers will know of it, but from the CTers' perspective, what's the purpose of this?
Likely, it's more believable to them because it's the kind of thing that they would do. It may be worth remembering that one of the main attractions to insane CTs is making up for lack of emotional... validation by means of being able to convince oneself that one is better than others because they see things that so many others don't. Another way of dealing with said problem is to show off in in-group ways that you don't think that others will get, again allowing one to convince themself that they're superior to the ignorant. Given the nature of that problem, it also notably enables projection for multiple reasons on top of that. The specific justifications then, are generally just window dressing.

To poke at the crowd in question, though, it's probably also worth noting that white supremacists and the like are fairly well known for engaging in such behavior.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 04:31 PM   #47
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,574
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Jackson Lahmeyer, a pastor from Oklahoma who is running for the US Senate (against GOP incumbent James Lankford who lost his party's support when he expressed doubt that the 2020 election was fraudulent) has been eagerly courting the QAnon vote as part of his campaign, even attending conspiracy-cons and associating with key QAnon figureheads like Lin Wood and (lately) Michael Flynn.

However, recently unwittingly made a fatal mistake that may cost him all of his easy-won support. Quite innocently, among the many campaign trail photographs that he has posted, he happened to include one of his daughter, and in that photo she happened to be wearing red shoes. This is a serious problem, because unbeknownst to Lahmeyer, at some point in the last few months QAnons have synthesized the belief that members of The Cabal photograph their children wearing red shoes as a coded message to other The Cabal members indicating that they are ritually molesting and sex-trafficking that child for Satan. So this full-MAGA Trump-worshipping church pastor is now having to defend himself online against a rapidly spreading rumor among the people that he has been pandering to that he is really a Cabal conspirator who secretly worships Satan and eats babies.
Am I allowed to laugh in pure schadenfreude or should I find this frightening?
__________________

gnome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2021, 06:28 PM   #48
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Am I allowed to laugh in pure schadenfreude or should I find this frightening?
Both, I think.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2021, 04:37 PM   #49
Carlotta
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,135
Creation worshiper?
Carlotta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2021, 07:46 AM   #50
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What's this CT obsesseion with the conspirators broadcasting their crimes? I mean, obviously so that the CTers will know of it, but from the CTers' perspective, what's the purpose of this?
Alex Jones says that it's some type of galactic law, that the evildoers have to publicly post their evil plans. Like when you take out an ad in the newspaper before you foreclose on a tax lien, or close a dormant bank account.

No, I am not making this up. I just heard him talk about the "ad in the newspaper" thing last week.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2021, 08:06 AM   #51
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Alex Jones says that it's some type of galactic law, that the evildoers have to publicly post their evil plans. Like when you take out an ad in the newspaper before you foreclose on a tax lien, or close a dormant bank account.

No, I am not making this up. I just heard him talk about the "ad in the newspaper" thing last week.
He's actually not stupid, he's deliberately creating an argument for his audience to use.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2021, 10:50 AM   #52
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,574
I'm sure it's also easy to attribute it to a Riddler-style desire to cryptically announce one's evil plans in advance in order to feel smug about how nobody figured it out. Or to "someone on the inside" trying to sabotage the effort by leaving clues. Or to being so arrogant they think people should be expected to approve.

There's lots of ways to explain away the unrealistic.
__________________

gnome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 04:05 AM   #53
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,171
Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I'm sure it's also easy to attribute it to a Riddler-style desire to cryptically announce one's evil plans in advance in order to feel smug about how nobody figured it out. Or to "someone on the inside" trying to sabotage the effort by leaving clues. Or to being so arrogant they think people should be expected to approve.

There's lots of ways to explain away the unrealistic.
It does rather raise the question of why, if all these conspiracies are announced well in advance, via globally-accessible sources, none of the usual CT talking heads have ever managed to thwart, or even mildly inconvenience, any of them?
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt

Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 05:27 AM   #54
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
 
gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,574
Sure they have! All the predicted CT events that don't happen. Their clever vigilance prevented them.
__________________

gnome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 09:03 AM   #55
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Sure they have! All the predicted CT events that don't happen. Their clever vigilance prevented them.
The world never gets taken over by the Illuminati, the UN the New World Order, its always 'gonna happen soon'. I remember the near constant stream of fear over the communists who were going to take over in the 50-80's. Obviously that didn't come about
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 11:01 AM   #56
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,171
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
It does rather raise the question of why, if all these conspiracies are announced well in advance, via globally-accessible sources, none of the usual CT talking heads have ever managed to thwart, or even mildly inconvenience, any of them?
Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Sure they have! All the predicted CT events that don't happen. Their clever vigilance prevented them.
Fantastic!
So the Evil Them broadcast their Evil Intentions to do Evil Things Because Evil around the world. Then the plucky resistance, with their special clip-on sunglasses and swishy leather coats, watch the broadcasts, put up a YouTube video about it, and the entire plan falls through.
It seems like something of a flaw in the plan, to me, especially as they've supposedly been doing the same thing for decades, but constantly getting thwarted by something as trivial as a kid with a smartphone.
I blame NWO recruitment procedures. Plans like this need qualified staff. You just can't get decent people of hench* these days.

ETA: The NWO is an Evil Opportunities Employer, as I'm sure you all know.
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt

Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer

Last edited by Cosmic Yak; 20th July 2021 at 11:05 AM.
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 11:37 AM   #57
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Gods, this makes so much not any sense that it makes anti-sense. What's this CT obsesseion with the conspirators broadcasting their crimes? I mean, obviously so that the CTers will know of it, but from the CTers' perspective, what's the purpose of this?
They get a "code" that only they are smart enough to decipher. That's the whole purpose of CTs - they give their proponents the illusion that they're geniuses who have worked out how everything really goes down.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 11:53 AM   #58
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The world never gets taken over by the Illuminati, the UN the New World Order, its always 'gonna happen soon'. I remember the near constant stream of fear over the communists who were going to take over in the 50-80's. Obviously that didn't come about
It also puts me in mind of the Evangelical hysteria about Satanism in the '80s. Evangelical radio and print was full of dire warnings about the imminent outlawing of Christianity - how the government was going to start rounding up the Born Again and shipping them off to camps. I remember reading one sensational bit of fundamentalist speculative fiction, set in the late '80s, that depicted a few Christian families gathered together in a basement for a secret church service. Suddenly sinister, heavily armed government agents from an agency specifically tasked with rooting out hiden Christians burst in and roughly arrest everyone. They're tossed into the backs of unmarked vans and driven for several hours to a heavily guarded, fenced compound in the middle of nowhere. There they're separated from their children, whom they're told will be sent to facilities to be "deprogrammed" of their religious beliefs, and are given the choice of publicly renouncing their beliefs or spending the resto of their lives incarcerated.

I remember when I first encountered excerpts and summaries of The Turner Diaries, I was reminded of the style of that story.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 12:34 PM   #59
SteveAitch
Graduate Poster
 
SteveAitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: St Aines
Posts: 1,121
Ah, I remember when UNIX was going to be the next big OS, 'any day now'. Took about twenty years and a name change or two, but it sneaked in behind the scenes.

So stay alert, comrades, the take-over could sneak through when you're looking the other way...
__________________
If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...
SteveAitch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2021, 02:01 PM   #60
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
Ah, I remember when UNIX was going to be the next big OS, 'any day now'. Took about twenty years and a name change or two, but it sneaked in behind the scenes.

So stay alert, comrades, the take-over could sneak through when you're looking the other way...
Yes, the Bulgarians secretly control the world. Those sneaky bastards.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2021, 08:05 AM   #61
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The world never gets taken over by the Illuminati, the UN the New World Order, its always 'gonna happen soon'. I remember the near constant stream of fear over the communists who were going to take over in the 50-80's. Obviously that didn't come about
I can't help but laugh. I mean, these people should spend some time around the UN. They're not taking over anything. It is an organization paralyzed by its democracy.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2021, 08:06 AM   #62
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yes, the Bulgarians secretly control the world. Those sneaky bastards.
I do hope they don't force their architects on us. They really have a thing for concrete and brutalism (at least in Sophia).
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2021, 08:12 AM   #63
SteveAitch
Graduate Poster
 
SteveAitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: St Aines
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I do hope they don't force their architects on us. They really have a thing for concrete and brutalism (at least in Sophia).
I can live with that, but I hope their wine-making has improved over the last twenty years!
__________________
If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...
SteveAitch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 01:24 PM   #64
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Quote:
I’m a Parkland Shooting Survivor. QAnon Convinced My Dad It Was All a Hoax.

A young student who survived the shooting at Parkland described how their Q poisoned father has become so nuts with the CT, that he has started openly doubting that the shooting was real and claiming that the bodies were fake and that the shooter was in on the hoax.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epnq...icenewstwitter
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 03:12 PM   #65
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
There's no underestimating the credulity of a Q-nut.
__________________
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore,
So do our minutes hasten to their end . . .


WS
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 07:15 PM   #66
dirtywick
Philosopher
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,481
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
A young student who survived the shooting at Parkland described how their Q poisoned father has become so nuts with the CT, that he has started openly doubting that the shooting was real and claiming that the bodies were fake and that the shooter was in on the hoax.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epnq...icenewstwitter
Does he think he is in on it?
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 07:27 PM   #67
gypsyjackson
Master Poster
 
gypsyjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 2,065
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Does he think he is in on it?
The article suggests that, yes, his father can’t understand why his son would be involved in the hoax.
gypsyjackson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 11:05 PM   #68
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,539
Quote:
Once dismissed as just another set of wacky conspiracy theories from the internet, the phenomenon known as QAnon has grown into a malignant force, infecting minds with dangerous fictions and amassing real power. What is this movement trying to achieve, and what happens next?

Thursday, August 5 at 7pm ET, on the next Skeptical Inquirer Presents live online event, journalist Mike Rothschild will untangle the many threads of myth and misinformation that make up QAnon ideology and why its outrageous beliefs are no laughing matter.
Mike Rothschild: How QAnon Became a Movement, Cult, and Conspiracy Theory of Everything (Skeptical Inquirer)

His name alone will get the QAnon crazies going.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 07:53 AM   #69
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Does he think he is in on it?
My reading is that he thinks the shooting was a hoax, but a convincing hoax that the son was a bystander to. Fake bodies, fake shooter, blank gunshots, an elaborate false flag performance that would bamboozle both bystanders, like the son, and the greater public.

Sounds more like the father thinks the son is being duped, not that he is complicit.

ETA: At least, that's my hunch. My limited experience with these CT's is that most think the shootings did actually happen, but that they were orchestrated false flag operations using varying amounts of theatrics, crisis actors, and props. Some may claim the actual shooting and deaths were real but were planned by (((nefarious actors))), others might claim more elaborate hoaxes involving fake bodies and fictional actors.

Those that believe more elaborate hoaxes tend to be the most toxic, because that often means that they believe real victims are actually in on the hoax. Harassment of surviving families is common as these cranks try to out the "truth". IIRC, one parent of a Sandy Hook victim had to keep the location of his slain child's grave a secret, as he fears that truthers might try to exhume the body.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 27th July 2021 at 08:03 AM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2021, 01:03 AM   #70
gypsyjackson
Master Poster
 
gypsyjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 2,065
The quote was:
Originally Posted by VICE
Bill also had to deal with his father’s daily accusations that the shooting was a hoax and that the shooter, Bill, and all his classmates were paid pawns in a grand conspiracy orchestrated by some shadowy force
which makes your reading seem generous to the father.
gypsyjackson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2021, 01:17 AM   #71
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
The quote was:
which makes your reading seem generous to the father.
For being paid pawns, I sorta have to wonder where the father thought that money was.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2021, 06:19 PM   #72
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
I suppose we should not be too surprised that it has come to thi:

California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...iracy-n1276611
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2021, 06:34 PM   #73
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I suppose we should not be too surprised that it has come to thi:



California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...iracy-n1276611
Dunno, that strikes me as the kind of guy who probably would have done something horrific regardless of the excuse. But I've maintained for decades now that conspiracy theories aren't benign. Truth and facts matter.
__________________
‣“Facts are stubborn things.” —John Adams
‣IANAL, but I do have a white wig.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2021, 06:48 PM   #74
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,480
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Dunno, that strikes me as the kind of guy who probably would have done something horrific regardless of the excuse. But I've maintained for decades now that conspiracy theories aren't benign. Truth and facts matter.
Conspiracism is a form of mental illness, and once one removes the ordinary guardrails from one's perceptions of reality, anything can be justified. That's why it's important to notice these people, investigate, and if it seems justified, intervene.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2021, 08:46 PM   #75
sts60
Illuminator
 
sts60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I suppose we should not be too surprised that it has come to thi:

California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...iracy-n1276611
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Dunno, that strikes me as the kind of guy who probably would have done something horrific regardless of the excuse. But I've maintained for decades now that conspiracy theories aren't benign. Truth and facts matter.
Yes, and to every one who has ever pushed this grotesque, poisonous fantasy, I say: Go **** yourself.
sts60 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2021, 02:22 AM   #76
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Yes, and to every one who has ever pushed this grotesque, poisonous fantasy, I say: Go **** yourself.
Right in the ear.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2021, 05:41 AM   #77
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Yes, and to every one who has ever pushed this grotesque, poisonous fantasy, I say: Go **** yourself.
Time for The Great Awakening.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2021, 07:28 AM   #78
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Conspiracism is a form of mental illness, and once one removes the ordinary guardrails from one's perceptions of reality, anything can be justified. That's why it's important to notice these people, investigate, and if it seems justified, intervene.
I think belief in a conspiracy theory might qualify in some cases as an expression or symptom of paranoia, which obviously could rise to clinical significance. But I don't think everyone who believes or promotes conspiracy theories is mentally ill. For people who are already mentally ill in some ways, I think conspiracy theories act as an aggravating factor.

By the same token I don't believe everyone who promotes a conspiracy theory necessarily believes it. That's where the real danger lies. You have people recklessly promoting falsehoods for their own purposes, seemingly indifferent to the real-world effects that will have on people. The original QAnon seems to have done it just for a lark, or as a prank. And when pranks go wrong, the prankster is rightly held accountable for it, because recklessness is not excusable even if you think the benign result you intended is hilarious. There's a reason why yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is not protected speech.

I'm a firm believer in punishing people only for what they do, not what they think. But when what they do evinces either a complete disregard for others or an entirely uncritical approach to the facts, it seems appropriate for there to be some accountability. As a society we do hold people accountable for what they know, or what they should have known, as it directs their actions. The QAnon claims are so patently absurd on their face that at some point we have to demand some accountability from those who claim to believe them.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2021, 08:01 AM   #79
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Dunno, that strikes me as the kind of guy who probably would have done something horrific regardless of the excuse. But I've maintained for decades now that conspiracy theories aren't benign. Truth and facts matter.
It's weird. My eldest is 19 and youngest not far behind. Functionally both adults now. But I have always encouraged questioning everything. On those occasions over the years when I have been stumped, my response has always been the same. "I don't know. Let's go find out." It has been a fun trip.

But this is different. The kids were a 2 yo and 8 months infant.

When my two were that age my priority was nappies and the changing and disposal of same. The kids had no opinion of anything beyond my nappy is full, change me.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2021, 08:35 AM   #80
Armitage72
Philosopher
 
Armitage72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8,185
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I suppose we should not be too surprised that it has come to thi:

California dad killed his kids over QAnon and 'serpent DNA' conspiracy theories, feds say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...iracy-n1276611

Both the linked article and the CNN article have him saying that he knew killing his children was wrong.

Quote:
Coleman said of the killings that “he knew it was wrong, but it was the only course of action that would save the world,” according to the affidavit.

I may be misremembering, but doesn't a statement like that impact a potential insanity defense? One of the factors is not realizing at the time of the crime that your actions are wrong?
I remember reading an article on the application of the legal system in a superhero setting.
Vigilante tries to kill several Senators due to the delusional belief that they're plotting to overthrow the government - Not a valid defense, since it wouldn't be justified to kill them, even if it were true.
Villain believes the world is a fictional construct and he isn't actually hurting anyone because they aren't real - Valid defense.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:37 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.