IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags "Rust" , alec baldwin , gun incidents

Reply
Old 18th December 2021, 09:27 PM   #121
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Quote the part that confirms your claim.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th December 2021, 01:59 AM   #122
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The article makes no mention of NRA training.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th December 2021, 09:48 PM   #123
Warp12
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,583
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Actually it's only a 45, the old cowboy load of low powder round, if it doesn't hit Bone it will make a small hole going in and a small hole going out.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, them .45 Long Colt's you can catch in your teeth, no prob. Weak load.
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The gun is an 1873 Colt smokeless power wasn't invented utill 1884.
Did they use rounds made in 1873, also? These are modern replicas, designed to be used with modern ammunition. You are talking about at least a 200 grain bullet moving at 1000 fps, fired point-blank.

Last edited by Warp12; 19th December 2021 at 09:54 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 12:07 AM   #124
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did they use rounds made in 1873, also? These are modern replicas, designed to be used with modern ammunition. You are talking about at least a 200 grain bullet moving at 1000 fps, fired point-blank.
In the newer ones yes you can shoot 45 long Colt, in the older guns and the older replicas they use cowboy loads or black powder.

Last edited by Crazy Chainsaw; 20th December 2021 at 12:09 AM.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 12:11 AM   #125
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The article makes no mention of NRA training.
Agreed but it does illiterate the fact that it doesn't allow you to know if the sear is engaging in these old guns.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 02:54 AM   #126
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Why hasn't anyone suggested the AD just picked up the wrong gun?
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 04:34 AM   #127
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why hasn't anyone suggested the AD just picked up the wrong gun?
"Halls, you idiot! You grabbed the real gun with the live bullets! Didn't you know we're supposed to use the dummy prop for rehearsals?"
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 05:51 AM   #128
SteveAitch
Graduate Poster
 
SteveAitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: St Aines
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Halls, you idiot! You grabbed the real gun with the live bullets! Didn't you know we're supposed to use the dummy prop for rehearsals?"
Well, that's one way of getting out of paying the extras...
__________________
If this board is too exciting for you, try my Flickr pages. Warning: may cause narcolepsy!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'. But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'...
SteveAitch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 05:56 AM   #129
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
He seemed to think it was 'cold' so shouldn't have been loaded with anything
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 06:29 AM   #130
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He seemed to think it was 'cold' so shouldn't have been loaded with anything
The Armouror stated she loaded it with six dummy rounds after lunch, want to bet one of those was a dud Round, mistaken for a Dummy because it had an indentation on the primer?
In dummy rounds I have made I have replaced the primers with red Silicone or Green plastic, so you can tell they are dummy rounds.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 07:52 AM   #131
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The Armouror stated she loaded it with six dummy rounds after lunch, want to bet one of those was a dud Round, mistaken for a Dummy because it had an indentation on the primer?
In dummy rounds I have made I have replaced the primers with red Silicone or Green plastic, so you can tell they are dummy rounds.
Is it a bit silly to expect dummy rounds to be, well 'dummy rounds', instead of formerly 'live rounds'?

Why start with live rounds anyway, and not just go with, say, solid rounds, which are incapable of being fired?
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 08:51 AM   #132
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Is it a bit silly to expect dummy rounds to be, well 'dummy rounds', instead of formerly 'live rounds'?

Why start with live rounds anyway, and not just go with, say, solid rounds, which are incapable of being fired?
They would cost more to manufacture.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 09:23 AM   #133
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The Armouror stated she loaded it with six dummy rounds after lunch, want to bet one of those was a dud Round, mistaken for a Dummy because it had an indentation on the primer?
In dummy rounds I have made I have replaced the primers with red Silicone or Green plastic, so you can tell they are dummy rounds.
Sure, I'll take that bet. What are the stakes? Avatars? How will the outcome be determined?
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 09:26 AM   #134
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
They would cost more to manufacture.
Why?
Half an hour with a lathe should do it.
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 11:45 AM   #135
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,402
Mind you I haven't been following this thread or the endless chatter in the media about this, but. . .I can see a small part of this accident easily happening. . .

The eye sometimes sees what the brain tells it to see. A couple of days ago I saw this back blob under my kitchen table and my brain told me it was my black cat.

it turns out it was an old towel the other cat had dragged there to use as a bed. Had I not looked closer I might have left the house on an errand thinking the black cat was in the house and left the little boy out in the cold Kentucky rain.

I can imagine an actor, upon being told that a gun is safe, believing it because that's how the actor thinks it's supposed to be. My understanding is that actors are supposed to check the firearm one last time. But I could imagine an actor looking down at a weapon and seeing what he thinks he is supposed to be there.

What I can't figure is how a live round got within a a mile of the set. My understanding is that live rounds are just not needed in the film process anymore.

And what possessed Baldwin to point the gun at somebody and pull the trigger during a rehearsal?

I know he says he didn't pull the trigger, but I doubt his recollection.

-------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 183 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2021, 02:42 PM   #136
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Agreed but it does illiterate the fact that it doesn't allow you to know if the sear is engaging in these old guns.
What difference does it make? If the cast and crew had been brilliant on the basics of firearms safety it wouldn't have mattered. We have all of our safety procedures because a weapon can malfunction or mistakes can be made in loading and handling.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 01:51 AM   #137
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
They would cost more to manufacture.
Why would that be so much of a problem, when seen in the context for an entire movie? You only have to make a bunch of these once, and can use them forever.

Heck! Make them a bit smaller in diameter and a bit shorter (not so much that it is visible) and put something of an insert in the cylinder (if revolver) or chamber (if pistol or rifle), so that these weapons only accept these particular sized rounds. That way it would not be possible for live rounds to be fed into the weapons, as these would simply be to large/long and you can still film those scenes where ammo has to be visibly handled.
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 08:24 AM   #138
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why?
Half an hour with a lathe should do it.
Yes but 5 minutes with a real spent cartridge does it
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 08:36 AM   #139
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes but 5 minutes with a real spent cartridge does it
Then someone mistakes a live round for a dud.
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 08:46 AM   #140
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
There are forms of these "dud" cartridges that don't explode at all and are completely reusable, right? If they cost a bit more than a live round that would not be an obstacle. I don't exactly know what I'm looking at but I see dummy rounds at Amazon for one or two dollars apiece.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 08:47 AM   #141
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes but 5 minutes with a real spent cartridge does it
The armorer actually doing her job does it even better, without any of this rigamarole.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 09:17 AM   #142
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
There are forms of these "dud" cartridges that don't explode at all and are completely reusable, right? If they cost a bit more than a live round that would not be an obstacle. I don't exactly know what I'm looking at but I see dummy rounds at Amazon for one or two dollars apiece.
Yes, Google 'Snap Caps,'
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 09:18 AM   #143
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The armorer actually doing her job does it even better, without any of this rigamarole.
But as this incident shows, that can't be relied on.
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 09:42 AM   #144
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
But as this incident shows, that can't be relied on.
The way this incident is described, I'm not sure they even went as far as relying on the armorer. This seems like it was more an exercise in ticking the box than an attempt to establish a reliable safety system.

All that was needed was for the person in charge of the barn door to close it before the horse escaped. All this rigamarole about a different breed of horse, or putting the door on tracks instead of hinges, is entirely beside the point.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 10:18 AM   #145
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,402
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Yes, Google 'Snap Caps,'
The snap caps I have seen are red. I would imagine that a director with an eye for detail would want the parts of the cartridge that show (if you look really hard), the rim in the back of the cylinder and the bullet in the front to be painted so as to look genuine.

I am just blowing smoke here but if the cartridges were repainted to look real it would fit with my theory that an actor could look at a "hot" revolver and upon being told the gun was safe believe that it was so, since the dummy rounds or snap caps were remade to look real.

Just a thought.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 184 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2021, 11:22 AM   #146
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The way this incident is described, I'm not sure they even went as far as relying on the armorer. This seems like it was more an exercise in ticking the box than an attempt to establish a reliable safety system.

All that was needed was for the person in charge of the barn door to close it before the horse escaped. All this rigamarole about a different breed of horse, or putting the door on tracks instead of hinges, is entirely beside the point.
have you seen the price for lumber recently? barn doors aren't free!
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 04:59 AM   #147
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The snap caps I have seen are red. I would imagine that a director with an eye for detail would want the parts of the cartridge that show (if you look really hard), the rim in the back of the cylinder and the bullet in the front to be painted so as to look genuine.

I am just blowing smoke here but if the cartridges were repainted to look real it would fit with my theory that an actor could look at a "hot" revolver and upon being told the gun was safe believe that it was so, since the dummy rounds or snap caps were remade to look real.

Just a thought.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 184 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
If the sizes of the dummies were different from real cartridges and the props used would be modified to only accept these differently sized dummies, a problem/error like this would be impossible, not even if the armourer in question had a bit of an 'off day'.
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 05:21 AM   #148
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
If the sizes of the dummies were different from real cartridges and the props used would be modified to only accept these differently sized dummies, a problem/error like this would be impossible, not even if the armourer in question had a bit of an 'off day'.
If you replaced the primer with green plastic an accident like this is also Impossible, has anyone else read the search Warrant for Baldwin's phone?
The Armour stated their were Wanky Rounds in the Dummies, and that she didn't check the gun much after lunch because it was in a safe, that other people had access to the safe, and she didn't believe anyone would bring a live round on set.
What we can determine is the sear was not busted during the time the Amourer loaded the last round at half Cock. That makes Baldwin's claim suspicious unless someone loaded in a live Round and dropped the gun, or someone loaded in a live round and rigged the gun.
So either Baldwin is Lying, or the Gun is broken, or the gun was maliciously rigged.
To be broken the gun would have had to be dropped while in a notch, safety half Cock, or third Notch, and it has to be dropped directly on the hammer on a hard surface.
Guns were disabled by Banging them, hammer first at half cock on rail road tracks, in Army Trials to test the sears in the 1800s.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 05:59 AM   #149
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
If you replaced the primer with green plastic an accident like this is also Impossible, has anyone else read the search Warrant for Baldwin's phone?
The Armour stated their were Wanky Rounds in the Dummies, and that she didn't check the gun much after lunch because it was in a safe, that other people had access to the safe, and she didn't believe anyone would bring a live round on set.
What we can determine is the sear was not busted during the time the Amourer loaded the last round at half Cock. That makes Baldwin's claim suspicious unless someone loaded in a live Round and dropped the gun, or someone loaded in a live round and rigged the gun.
So either Baldwin is Lying, or the Gun is broken, or the gun was maliciously rigged.
To be broken the gun would have had to be dropped while in a notch, safety half Cock, or third Notch, and it has to be dropped directly on the hammer on a hard surface.
Guns were disabled by Banging them, hammer first at half cock on rail road tracks, in Army Trials to test the sears in the 1800s.
But then your starting position is still going from a working cartridge and a real weapon.

If these are omitted from the process, then it wouldn't matter if the armourer was lackluster in its duties, whether a safety was damaged/broken or not and so on.

The primairy check would have to be, whether the prop (both cartridge and gun) used was one of the permanently disabled kinds and something of a mark, which could be easily felt, would be more than enough for that. Possibly something more than only this as a check, but you hopefully got the picture.
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 06:34 AM   #150
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
But then your starting position is still going from a working cartridge and a real weapon.

If these are omitted from the process, then it wouldn't matter if the armourer was lackluster in its duties, whether a safety was damaged/broken or not and so on.

The primairy check would have to be, whether the prop (both cartridge and gun) used was one of the permanently disabled kinds and something of a mark, which could be easily felt, would be more than enough for that. Possibly something more than only this as a check, but you hopefully got the picture.
Gun people will still want to make movies with real guns and you will never stop them, they will claim it's art protected by free speech.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 06:51 AM   #151
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Gun people will still want to make movies with real guns and you will never stop them, they will claim it's art protected by free speech.
And why should we listen to them?
Lots of things in movies are fake, like explosions, stunts in general, money and phone numbers used. The way they even speak to eachother (especially those movies where they only speak in one liners) and that is alright.
Why do guns have to be an exception and positively have to be real?
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 07:13 AM   #152
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
And why should we listen to them?
Lots of things in movies are fake, like explosions, stunts in general, money and phone numbers used. The way they even speak to eachother (especially those movies where they only speak in one liners) and that is alright.
Why do guns have to be an exception and positively have to be real?
Because gun nuts want guns, just look at all the videos over this accidental shooting- Homicide.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 07:20 AM   #153
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Because gun nuts want guns, just look at all the videos over this accidental shooting- Homicide.
Yes, I know gun nuts want guns. That is what makes them gun nuts.

For the industry that is acting stories for on the big screen, there is no single good reason to use real weapons and real cartridges (in order to to make dummies). Not if there are alternatives that can look exactly like the real ones.
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 07:21 AM   #154
Dr.Sid
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 4,754
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
If the sizes of the dummies were different from real cartridges and the props used would be modified to only accept these differently sized dummies, a problem/error like this would be impossible, not even if the armourer in question had a bit of an 'off day'.
It's usual to use gun with barrel obstruction in movies. Yet this one wasn't. It was 100% working gun, and was used with live ammo day prior.
So yet again, it's not problem of no options being available. It's problem of nobody giving a F.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 07:22 AM   #155
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,402
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The snap caps I have seen are red. I would imagine that a director with an eye for detail would want the parts of the cartridge that show (if you look really hard), the rim in the back of the cylinder and the bullet in the front to be painted so as to look genuine.

I am just blowing smoke here but if the cartridges were repainted to look real it would fit with my theory that an actor could look at a "hot" revolver and upon being told the gun was safe believe that it was so, since the dummy rounds or snap caps were remade to look real.

Just a thought.
Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
If the sizes of the dummies were different from real cartridges and the props used would be modified to only accept these differently sized dummies, a problem/error like this would be impossible, not even if the armourer in question had a bit of an 'off day'.
Yes, that would work. But the only challenge then would be using look alike guns to film scenes in which blanks are used simulate live rounds. The film makers could have different cylinders which they could install (it aint' that difficult) when they want to use blanks they could. But, then you are back to a situation where somehow a live round can be put in the cylinder.

As couple of other posters have commented the way around all this is to control the presence of live rounds on the set.

The tale is that in the old days of westerns the colt single action was popular among film makers because it could function with dummies, blanks and live rounds. If you watch old westerns you'd think it was the only gun in the old west.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 185 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 07:56 AM   #156
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Yes, that would work. But the only challenge then would be using look alike guns to film scenes in which blanks are used simulate live rounds. The film makers could have different cylinders which they could install (it aint' that difficult) when they want to use blanks they could. But, then you are back to a situation where somehow a live round can be put in the cylinder.

As couple of other posters have commented the way around all this is to control the presence of live rounds on the set.

The tale is that in the old days of westerns the colt single action was popular among film makers because it could function with dummies, blanks and live rounds. If you watch old westerns you'd think it was the only gun in the old west.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 185 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
I think it had more to do with you could then pick up a single action Colt for five Bucks army surplus in 1911 so the prop houses bought tons of them and used them until the mechanisms wore out, and wouldn't work then tossed them.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 08:00 AM   #157
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Gun people will still want to make movies with real guns and you will never stop them
And that's why all your rigamarole about modifying guns and bullets doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
And why should we listen to them?
Why should we care? If a grown-ass adult wants to cavort with their real gun in the privacy of their own movie set, in the company of other consenting adults, why should it matter to us?

All over the country this next week, people are going to be gathering together, taking out real guns, and brandishing them in the privacy of their homes. Many of them will be recorded by cameras. None of this is even remotely problematic (except to those who are nervous about the idea of private citizens possessing guns at all).
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 08:07 AM   #158
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And that's why all your rigamarole about modifying guns and bullets doesn't matter.


Why should we care? If a grown-ass adult wants to cavort with their real gun in the privacy of their own movie set, in the company of other consenting adults, why should it matter to us?

All over the country this next week, people are going to be gathering together, taking out real guns, and brandishing them in the privacy of their homes. Many of them will be recorded by cameras. None of this is even remotely problematic (except to those who are nervous about the idea of private citizens possessing guns at all).
This whole case Is going to come down too did the gun go on half Cock when the Armourer loaded in the last round, and was it a functioning Gun?
If it went on half Cock when the Armourer loaded the last round but was broken, when Alec Baldwin cocked the Hammer back and comes back non functional then someone broke the gun on purpose or by dropping it.
If it didn't go on half Cock then the Armourer is Negligent giving Baldwin a loaded and broken gun.
The only other two possibilities are Baldwin is lying or someone knew how to expertly rig the trigger, wedge the Trigger on that gun.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 08:19 AM   #159
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,402
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
. . .The tale is that in the old days of westerns the colt single action was popular among film makers because it could function with dummies, blanks and live rounds. If you watch old westerns you'd think it was the only gun in the old west.
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I think it had more to do with you could then pick up a single action Colt for five Bucks army surplus in 1911 so the prop houses bought tons of them and used them until the mechanisms wore out, and wouldn't work then tossed them.
I am ruining the tale, but Williams S. Hart used to carry a Colt New Service swing out revolver in some of his movies. He's have a Colt Army in one hand and the swing out in the other.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...revolver-18286

I don't think this was period accurate since the New Service was introduced in 1898 and Hart's model was manufactured in 1907.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 185 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

Last edited by arayder; 22nd December 2021 at 08:29 AM.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2021, 08:44 AM   #160
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Yes, that would work. But the only challenge then would be using look alike guns to film scenes in which blanks are used simulate live rounds. The film makers could have different cylinders which they could install (it aint' that difficult) when they want to use blanks they could. But, then you are back to a situation where somehow a live round can be put in the cylinder.

As couple of other posters have commented the way around all this is to control the presence of live rounds on the set.

The tale is that in the old days of westerns the colt single action was popular among film makers because it could function with dummies, blanks and live rounds. If you watch old westerns you'd think it was the only gun in the old west.

------------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 185 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
A blank could be used in the same gun. It would be shorter to chamber in the shortened cylinder or chamber so a live round would still not fit.
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.