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Tags "Rust" , alec baldwin , gun incidents

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Old 23rd August 2022, 05:38 AM   #281
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I'm still not getting what you need a blank for. You just need some sound and smoke. A goddamn cap gun can do that. A gunshot sounds like easiest thing in the world to foley over.

The whole "modifying bullets" way of making a prop round sounds like... not just dangerous but overly complicated for no real reason.
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Old 23rd August 2022, 06:09 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm still not getting what you need a blank for. You just need some sound and smoke. A goddamn cap gun can do that. A gunshot sounds like easiest thing in the world to foley over.

The whole "modifying bullets" way of making a prop round sounds like... not just dangerous but overly complicated for no real reason.
This, a thousand times this.
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Old 23rd August 2022, 08:02 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
As I said before, the easy way is too have all dumby rounds marked with green plastic instead of a primer cap, and all blanks used on set marked with a red Primer. Hollywood being cheap causes these accidents.
Or to have no real firearms on the set.
The use of rubber 'weapons' for everything other than the 'hero prop' is already established widely in the movie industry.
Having hero props, which look and move like the real thing is trivially easy to make, such that they are incapable of firing real ammunition. Might cost a bit upfront in the making, but these can be offset by not needing to have a fire arm insurance (or something like that) for the production company.

Movie making is all about make believe. Movie money, telephone numbers and the like are all fake. There's no reason, why real firearms should ever be on the set.
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Old 23rd August 2022, 09:19 AM   #284
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There is even a whole industry that makes authentic-looking replicas that fire plastic pellets via compressed air. Between Airsoft props, foley, and adding muzzle flashes in post, there's probably no need for anything like a real gun anywhere near a movie set.

Certainly not for a reason as silly as "I can't act authentically in this scene without feeling the real weight of a real gun with real bullets in it."
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Old 23rd August 2022, 05:47 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm still not getting what you need a blank for. You just need some sound and smoke. A goddamn cap gun can do that. A gunshot sounds like easiest thing in the world to foley over.

The whole "modifying bullets" way of making a prop round sounds like... not just dangerous but overly complicated for no real reason.
Recoil.
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Old 23rd August 2022, 06:33 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Recoil.
Or actors could, you know, act.
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Old 24th August 2022, 05:49 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Or actors could, you know, act.
The recoil never looks right from Jerking Mussles, it looks faked because it is faked.
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Old 24th August 2022, 06:02 AM   #288
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...
..
.

but blanks don't have recoil.
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Old 24th August 2022, 06:20 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Recoil.
Is that why they used all those rubber firearms in various movies?

Besides. It is also possible to make something of a sliding mass inside the prop, so it can better fake recoil. Better at least than a letting the actor fake recoil with a squib load or something like that. And safer. Much safer.
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Old 24th August 2022, 06:32 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
...
..
.

but blanks don't have recoil.
A wadded blank has little recoil but it still has some, a crimped blank has almost no recoil.
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Old 24th August 2022, 06:33 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
A wadded blank has little recoil but it still has some, a crimped blank has almost no recoil.
Yeah so... the whole "But they need recoil to act" thing sorta fails.
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Old 24th August 2022, 07:19 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
...
..
.

but blanks don't have recoil.
Shhhhhh. We’re having some alone time with the revolvers today.
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Old 24th August 2022, 07:28 AM   #293
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Well okay I can see a valid point here. For a certain kind of verisimilitude. But if a director believes he has shots that need that verisimilitude, there are facsimile firearms that can do the trick, without being functional firearms capable of firing real bullets. Or if not, there should be.

And if you can't get your hands on one of those, then it's absolutely on you to make sure the real gun you're "forced" to use is properly safed. Even if you're just a big dumb actor who can't find the trigger if your finger is taped to it, you can always ask, "where's the armorer?" And if you're too dumb even for that, there's always the Director, the Producer, and the goddamn Director of Photography who's standing right in front of you while you wave a gun around, who can ask, "where's the armorer?
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Old 24th August 2022, 07:45 AM   #294
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Again some of the most dynamic gun battles of all time have been filmed without so much as anything resembling a real gun or real round on set.

If Robert Rodriguez can make Once Upon a Time in Mexico, essentially a movie long shootout, almost 20 years ago on a budget of less than 30 million and make the gunplay look THAT good without using a single blank or modified weapon I don't know what problem we are possibly trying to solve.
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Old 24th August 2022, 10:40 AM   #295
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It comes down to budget, and time.

Rubber guns are preferred because they'll come in under $10 to produce (molding, casting, & painting). Often, pop-houses stockpile rubber guns. They are always the best option based on production costs alone, especially in a movie with a lot of gun-carrying extras, and cast (cop, action, and war movies). You don't have to babysit them, you don't have to secure them, and they lower your insurance rate.

Real guns and modified guns come in second because they can be rented, and the expense is still cheaper than CGI (for now), and cuts down post-production time. Real guns have been used safely on movie sets for just over a century, something that cannot be said of automobiles, motorcycles, or helicopters, which no one is demanding the end of their use in movies.

We just coming up on the 40th anniversary of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre where the same principles were in play. Real chainsaws were used along with modified, and dummy chainsaws to create realistic on-screen action. No one was hurt because safety came first, and the movie's budget was under $140,000.
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Old 24th August 2022, 11:52 AM   #296
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Dangerous activities require professionals who have a deep respect for that danger.

This set seems to have run off those professionals.

Personal anecdote that is only tangentially related:
I used to teach a short rock climbing course to groups of scouts. We’d do a demo and go over safety rules and procedures. We’d get each kid to climb to the top of a rock face and rappel back down. We would do anywhere from two to eight groups a day with the groups averaging around 12 kids and two adults. We instructed every single one of them in proper procedure and then promptly trusted them to not follow said procedure.

We were in charge of their safety the entire time, but they felt in control. The danger of a fall from 30 feet onto boulders is real. The helmet wouldn’t help much if they fell. And yet, a small band of climber ranging from 18-22 were able to keep all these kids from falling to their death.

Like all dangerous activities it is all about the process. The climb doesn’t start until the harness is checked at the bottom. The kid doesn’t get off the line at the top until they are clicked into a safety tether. The safety tether isn’t removed until they are on the rap line. The rap doesn’t start until the bottom person has the rap line in hand. (Little known fact, if you have a bottom person you don’t need to double rope when rappelling with a figure eight or similar descender. The bottom can stop everything with a gentle tug. Nice, right?) As all of this is happening we are talking the participants through as if they are totally in control. Constant communication and teaching them climbing terminology and etiquette. Minus the fat shaming.

The whole time the kid thinks they are living life on the edge of death when the realty is that they are safer up top than they are waiting for their friends to get done climbing.

That is how dangerous things are made safe. Process that removes dangerous choices from the participants. If a participant dies in that situation by diving off the edge of the cliff while untethered, then yeah the participant caused it, but the professionals are at fault too for allowing that to even be possible.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:06 PM   #297
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Even more tangentially related: My dad recently discovered that flying an airplane is a lot less fun than he thought it would be. Turns out the whole thing is an extended exercise in checklist management.
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:12 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The recoil never looks right from Jerking Mussles, it looks faked because it is faked.
What do shellfish have to do with firearms?
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Old 24th August 2022, 12:17 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
What do shellfish have to do with firearms?
“Recoil”, I believe. For realism.
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Old 25th August 2022, 04:04 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
What do shellfish have to do with firearms?
What, you've never heard of a Glock Lobster?
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Old 25th August 2022, 06:38 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
What, you've never heard of a Glock Lobster?
Great song by the B-Fishie Twos.
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Old 5th October 2022, 09:16 AM   #302
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Baldwin and Hutchins' family have reached a settlement in the civil case (subject to court approval).

The part I really wasn't expecting is that:
Quote:
the movie will resume filming in January
Not only that, but:
Quote:
Matthew Hutchins, Halyna’s widower, will be an executive producer and receive a portion of the profits
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Old 5th October 2022, 09:40 AM   #303
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Sold his soul for a mess of pottage, that one.
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Old 5th October 2022, 09:46 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sold his soul for a mess of pottage, that one.
Or for their kid's trust fund, more charitably.
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Old 5th October 2022, 12:36 PM   #305
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I'm guessing that armorer doesn't qualify as "principal player" in this context and the former one probably won't be part of the crew in January. But it also sounds like they are trying to shield her/argue against criminal charges.

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Old 5th October 2022, 12:40 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Or for their kid's trust fund, more charitably.
I doubt this movie is going to see a single penny of profits.
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Old 6th October 2022, 04:51 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I doubt this movie is going to see a single penny of profits.
I suspect not . But you never know... The shooting provided some free publicity and some people might choose to see it out of morbid curiosity.

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Old 6th October 2022, 04:33 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I suspect not . But you never know... The shooting provided some free publicity and some people might choose to see it out of morbid curiosity.

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With American oaters usually being either conservative or comedies (and I haven't seen any hint of this one being a comedy), and Alec's recent notoriety revolving around his sketches as Trump... I wonder what the thinking was in the casting sessions.

Or was it all him from the jump... buying the property and forming a production company?
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Old 6th October 2022, 05:28 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
With American oaters usually being either conservative or comedies (and I haven't seen any hint of this one being a comedy), and Alec's recent notoriety revolving around his sketches as Trump... I wonder what the thinking was in the casting sessions.

Or was it all him from the jump... buying the property and forming a production company?
In this thread or the other (SI&CE) it was mentioned in a posted article that this was/is a 'pet project' for Baldwin, so, yes, it's all him from the jump, as it were.
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Old 6th October 2022, 05:49 PM   #310
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Not sure why we wouldn't expect this movie to make some profit. It's really low budget. A third of it's budget has already been covered by distribution deals. And the cost of hiring a proper armorer and crew wouldn't come anywhere near breaking the budget.
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Old 7th October 2022, 09:18 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Not sure why we wouldn't expect this movie to make some profit. It's really low budget. A third of it's budget has already been covered by distribution deals. And the cost of hiring a proper armorer and crew wouldn't come anywhere near breaking the budget.
And, as Phineas T. Barnum once observed, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".
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Old 16th February 2023, 08:04 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because at least on the standard of his actions he did nothing wrong in his handling of the gun. Do you blame the pilots for the crashes of the Boeing 737s?
Care to revise this statement?
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Old 20th April 2023, 05:25 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Care to revise this statement?
Charges dropped gun was Modified, he didn't even know.
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Old 20th April 2023, 06:31 PM   #314
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https://abcnews.go.com/US/charges-dr...ry?id=98734243
Quote:
Charges against Alec Baldwin have been dropped in the fatal on-set "Rust" shooting, according to sources familiar with the matter.

The Santa Fe district attorney's office declined to comment.
So much for owning all of the bullets you shoot.
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Old 21st April 2023, 11:28 AM   #315
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There is a stench of desperation from the prosecutors' office.
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Old 21st April 2023, 11:53 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
There is a stench of desperation from the prosecutors' office.
If the gun was modified dirty sand could have contaminated the trigger system and caused this whole accident, you won't get a conviction with that type of doubt.
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Old 21st April 2023, 12:17 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
There is a stench of desperation from the prosecutors' office.
I agree the manslaughter charge was ridiclous, but, since this whole film has been Baldwin's Baby from day one, I think he bears responsbilty for the incredibly unsafe procedures on the set which led to the shooting. He hired the cheapest help he could get, and disaster followed.
But of course he is a Liberal and has said nasty things abour Trump. so that should make him above the law.
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Old 21st April 2023, 04:03 PM   #318
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I think the DA looked at a situation that was a cluster-****, full of incompetent people in key positions. One option would be to charge them all, but it would be hard to convict in front of a jury as it would become clear these people are self-absorbed morons, and D-list movie people.

This is a much better civil case, as already demonstrated.

The fact that they're going to finish the movie tells you how thoughtless the production team truly is.

Oh, and the DA was staring down Hollywood lawyers, the AK-47 of the legal world. Look up the case surrounding a death during the filming of The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing. Didn't happen on set, but the rumors surrounding this story will keep Hollywood gossip types busy.
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Old 21st April 2023, 08:11 PM   #319
Joe Random
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
If the gun was modified dirty sand could have contaminated the trigger system and caused this whole accident, you won't get a conviction with that type of doubt.
Do you have any evidence at all that anything like that happened or are you just throwing **** against the wall ? Or do you just enjoy coming up with fantasies ?

If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon, and all that. FFS.

Last edited by Joe Random; 21st April 2023 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 22nd April 2023, 04:55 AM   #320
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Do you have any evidence at all that anything like that happened or are you just throwing **** against the wall ? Or do you just enjoy coming up with fantasies ?

If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon, and all that. FFS.
The DA, stated the gun was modified that's the new evidence and dirt or sand interference in the mechanisms function could have been shaken out by the bullets recoil.

http://ymcinema.com/2023/04/21/alec-...a-new-trigger/

Last edited by Crazy Chainsaw; 22nd April 2023 at 05:00 AM.
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