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9th March 2022, 07:43 AM | #241 |
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This is getting very tiresome. 44 cases of pneumonia in patients where the cause is unknown or is not readily determined is the very definition of a cluster!
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Originally Posted by Tan, Wu, et al
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) |
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9th March 2022, 08:13 AM | #242 |
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A: We have proof that John Doe is the killer here on this video.
B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video! A: The victim's blood has been found on Doe's clothing. B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video! A: The murder weapon was found in Doe's car. B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video! A: Doe has confessed. B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video! |
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9th March 2022, 08:21 AM | #243 |
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9th March 2022, 08:26 AM | #244 |
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The SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated, sequenced, and demonstrated to cause the illness COVID-19. Multiple times. Posters denying this are denying reality.
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9th March 2022, 11:53 AM | #245 |
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x-ray or cryo, the structures can't be beat
Many of the proteins that are part of this virus have been purified and their structures solved, a point that I have made before. There is a structure of the main protease bound to the key ingredient of Paxlovid, for example.
"Abstract The unprecedented scale of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic has catalyzed an intense effort of the global scientific community to unravel different aspects of the disease in a short time. One of the crucial aspects of these developments is the determination of more than three hundred experimental structures of SARS-CoV-2 proteins in the last few months. These include structures of viral non-structural, structural, and accessory proteins and their complexes determined by either X-ray diffraction or cryo-electron microscopy. These structures elucidate the intricate working of different components of the viral machinery at the atomic level during different steps of the viral life cycle, including attachment to the host cell, viral genome replication and transcription, and genome packaging and assembly of the virion. Some of these proteins are also potential targets for drug development against the disease. In this review, we discuss important structural features of different SARS-CoV-2 proteins with their function, and their potential as a target for therapeutic interventions." ScienceDirect Arya R. et al., Journal of Molecular Biology Volume 433, Issue 2, 22 January 2021, 166725. |
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9th March 2022, 12:30 PM | #246 |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) |
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9th March 2022, 01:43 PM | #247 |
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Even if you grant that the cluster is not what it was purported to be, and/or was dealt with unscientifically, there is still a vast amount of other, later evidence supporting the existence of the novel coronavirus, which is the evidence you are ignoring.
Don't ignore evidence; it is unscientific, especially when the amount of evidence is vast. |
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9th March 2022, 02:14 PM | #248 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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9th March 2022, 03:08 PM | #249 |
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Just stopped into this thread to see where it's gone...and...
Okay... The claim now is that COVID-19 doesn't exist? Who can believe this in 2022? I could see if this was 1894, but we have microscopes, and DNA/RNA sequencing, and all kinds of medical advances which make it possible not only to identify viruses, but photograph them - in color - and dissect them to understand the makeup of their structures, and we can sequence them. This isn't even news any more. The idea that medical information is faked or suppressed is comical. Just look at the last two years. EVERY counter-claim about COVID-19 and alternate treatments has been shut down like the sad clown-show it is. The COVID CTists aren't even trying any more. They're as bad as the Bigfoot crowd now. The thing I love most is this forum has a science board where the virus thread is a productive source for useful information thanks to those who post there being qualified medical professional, and scientist. I don't post in that thread because I have nothing intelligent to add. Here I'm a reformed CTist doing my time and penance point calling current CTists on their BS. And ALL of the COVID-19 CTs are BS, and really pedestrian, kindergarten-level CTs at that. |
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9th March 2022, 03:19 PM | #250 |
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9th March 2022, 04:44 PM | #251 |
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With regards to the highlighted, a couple of people who wrote a paper titled The COVID-19 Fraud & War on Humanity [pdf]. One of the authors is a qualified medical doctor who's been practicing in New Zealand for over twenty years. The other has a Ph.D. in English.
The paper claims viruses don't exist, any genomic sequencing is suspect due to massive contamination (and because viruses don't exist,) PCR can't be used to identify viruses (because they don't exist!) and electron microphotographs are merely artists' impressions. |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) |
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9th March 2022, 04:45 PM | #252 |
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) |
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9th March 2022, 06:55 PM | #253 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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9th March 2022, 08:20 PM | #254 |
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9th March 2022, 09:43 PM | #255 |
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The mere fact that vaccines were developed which drastically reduced cases of severe illness and death in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated is conclusive proof that both the virus, and the disease it produces, exist. That anyone could fool themselves into a position where they are obliged to deny such simple and incontrovertible facts beggars belief.
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9th March 2022, 10:29 PM | #256 |
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10th March 2022, 12:24 AM | #257 |
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10th March 2022, 01:50 AM | #258 |
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Natural Health exercise for them in need of it:
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10th March 2022, 01:52 AM | #259 |
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Going back to this claim, another thought struck me, which was this: Petra claims to be following the debunking trail, right? Petra was the one who introduced this FOI request claim into the debate. Petra further claimed that no-one had given a proper answer to these requests, and that none of the authorities contacted were in possession of such proof of isolation.
The later claim from Petra, that she was unaware of the response from Sinai that I quoted, shows she had not, in fact, 'followed the debunking trail' at all. In actual fact, she had not read the responses to the FOI requests herself at all, and consequently was not aware that there had been a specific and factual response, and that the response explained clearly why the information requested was not available. Moreover, the linked interview with Massey grievously misrepresents the responses that were received, and omits the fact that Massey was asked to clarify her request, but failed to do so. In summary, then, Petra has gullibly and unquestioningly swallowed the dishonest narrative spun by Massey, and not actually checked it at all- and then arrived on this site to insist the complete opposite. |
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10th March 2022, 02:09 AM | #260 |
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10th March 2022, 02:17 AM | #261 |
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10th March 2022, 03:32 AM | #262 |
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10th March 2022, 04:38 AM | #263 |
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10th March 2022, 08:14 AM | #264 |
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11th March 2022, 12:03 AM | #265 | |||
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The whole problem with ignorance is how easily it fools itself - but no one with subject matter knowledge.
Over 20,000 healthy people sampled just for this one study that identified 142,000 types of viruses in our bellies.
That said, the video is, IMHO, an interesting glimpse into future virological studies (and everything related). |
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11th March 2022, 01:10 AM | #266 |
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I have told you repeatedly that there are unique features of covid pneumonia that make it unusual and thus would cause the clinicians to identify a cluster of unusual pneumonias. Another alert would be if there was evidence of person to person transmission e.g. two or more cases in a household.
Also note they reported three strains which means they the went and isolated it from two more patients before thinking they really had a novel coronavirus causing the pneumonia, they did not report on the first isolate, but replicated the findings first. |
11th March 2022, 01:22 AM | #267 |
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Actually I think Petra's claim is no viruses exist.
I now realise that the discussion is pointless if Petra denies the existence of viruses as a concept thenno evidence that there is a novel coronavirus is sufficient, as the very existence of viruses is denied. It is pretty easy to isolate pure virus particles for SARS-CoV-2. It grows easily in cell culture then you can just do density gradient centrifugation, or use an antibody technique to get pure virus particles. You can then do EM, or PCR or antibody tests to check the identity. You can infect animals or tissue culture or cell culture, and look at the damage done. The one thing you can't actually do is see it with the naked eye. |
11th March 2022, 01:55 AM | #268 |
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And that, for Petra, is the problem. If you add that to her (frankly implausible) anecdotal claim that no-one she knows has had Covid, plus her unhealthy distrust of expertise, her denial of an entire branch of science becomes more understandable.
Not excusable, note- just understandable. Petra only believes her own interpretation of what she sees with her own eyes. If you are essentially a solipsist, these kinds of beliefs are tenable: delusional and self-centred, but tenable. All it takes is blinkers, basically. |
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12th March 2022, 12:49 AM | #269 |
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Why is anyone still arguing this? We won. Science and people getting vaccinated ended the pandemic. I came to this realization when I saw what was left of the stupid ass trucker convoy stuck in traffic on the Outter Loop of the Washington Beltway this afternoon. The deniers and complainers don't matter anymore; they aren't important (not like they ever were). We won and the antivaxxers and anti maskers just don't matter anymore.
There will still be people getting Covid but most of them have it coming and are no loss to those of us who won. We (people who got vaccinated and wore masks) will be fine and those who die of Covid now were dead weight when they were alive and no loss to the rest of us when they die. |
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Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
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12th March 2022, 02:14 AM | #270 |
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In terms of saving lives and reducing illness, yes, agreed, we did win.
However, the battle may be won, but the war is far from over. For a start, the disinformationists like Mercola and RFK Jr are still making a very profitable living peddling their lies. Moreover, belief in these lies is still rife among the conspiracy theorists who pay them and consume their propaganda. The ideas that science is useful, that the majority of scientists are not either psychopaths or willing accomplices to genocide, and that critical thinking skills and fact-checking are good and necessary things, have yet to take root among the people that need these ideas the most. Another point is that the hardcore of these cultists will simply retreat further into their delusional paranoia. This may well lead to more incidents of shootings, threats of violence, vandalism and the like, out of extremism and frustration that none of their predictions came true and the majority of the populace have not 'woken up' as they imagined they would. This is akin to Manson attempting to trigger the race war he predicted would start. It didn't start quickly enough for him, so he decided to give it a murderous nudge. Some of those calling for violent revolution, a la Childlike Empress, may resolve to take matters into their own hands in a similar manner. Not our actual CE, of course: that would mean actually getting out of his armchair, and that's not going to happen. No, someone like CE, but who is actually prepared to act on their beliefs. |
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12th March 2022, 09:09 AM | #271 |
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12th March 2022, 12:00 PM | #272 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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12th March 2022, 02:36 PM | #273 |
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Who cares? We have a vaccine. We have shots in arms of the people we need. Everyone else doesn't matter. If you're not vaccinated, you're not valuable. It's better for the rest of us if you just get Covid and die. Those who would care if you died are people we would do better without. There's a solution to the Covid problem in front of you. Take it. If you don't, you don't matter and we're better off without you.
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Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
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12th March 2022, 10:01 PM | #274 |
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With all due respect, I think that's a rather narrow view of the problem.
The spread of disinformation is not just an issue for the small numbers of Covid deniers: it has widespread consequences for society. Look at the January 6th Capitol riot, for example. Disinformation is directly threatening democracy. As another example, in my home town in the UK, a public defibrillator has been smashed with hammers, twice, because some local conspiracy theorists think it's something to do with 5G. This kind of action is literally life-threatening. As another example, there are increasing numbers of incidents in which NHS workers have been harassed, abused and threatened by anti-vaxxers. Do you think this is going to stop as the pandemic recedes? I doubt it. Another point: As we know, belief in one conspiracy theory often leads to others. If we do not, as a society, take action to instil better critical thinking skills in our populations, the gateway effect of CTs will lead those believers into whatever madness comes next, and the attendant problematic consequences for the community will continue. I also want to take issue with your frankly callous attitude to the unvaccinated. The idea that human beings only deserve to live if society considers them to be 'valuable', and that if they fail that arbitrary test they deserve to die, is repugnant. Indeed, this is bordering on eugenics. No, mate: human life is equally valuable, regardless of individual beliefs. Human rights are universal, not subject to means testing. Any avoidable death is a tragedy, whether it results from poor decision-making or not. These deaths are not to be celebrated: they should be mourned, and we should be trying to prevent more, not shrugging our shoulders and saying 'we're better off without you'. |
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13th March 2022, 04:12 AM | #275 |
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13th March 2022, 04:38 AM | #276 |
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13th March 2022, 04:41 AM | #277 |
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Profit-driven liars, Emre, that's who those people are.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-...-charge-2021-9 |
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13th March 2022, 04:56 AM | #278 |
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13th March 2022, 04:58 AM | #279 |
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13th March 2022, 05:00 AM | #280 |
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