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Old 16th May 2022, 07:26 AM   #41
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm not sure why there would be. America's use of soft and hard power over our Southern neighbors is not really that hotly contested anymore. It's not even "conspiracy theory", but more accepted fact including by key players like the CIA and State Department. The historical record is out there for anyone to read. Fire up Wikipedia if you want to know more.
Yes I see some articles about troubles in the "Northern Triangle" nations. Not exactly sure how the USA caused this.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:27 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes I see some articles about troubles in the "Northern Triangle" nations. Not exactly sure how the USA caused this.
*Gets out the spoon to feed you*
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:28 AM   #43
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Interesting note, the Buffalo mass shooter's manifesto contains images (the famous IQ gap image) taken directly out of Murray's "Bell Curve" book, the much debunked holy text of the scientific racism crowd.

There's no way to view this great replacement crap as anything but the conspiratorial delusions of white supremacists.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
...I read that its not working exactly as planned in Texas, but it has worked well in California.
Then you read crap, because "as planned" assumes a priori that this is in fact the Democrat's plan all along, rather than simply some idle speculation based on faulty assumptions. It would be a pretty stupid plan anyway, since as you yourself admit it apparently isn't working in two of the three most populous states -- pretty poor track record if true.

In any case, the timing of your speculation could not possibly be worse, coming as it does immediately in the aftermath of a horrific mass shooting in which the killer justified his actions based on this idea. Did you really think this was an appropriate time to discuss whether or not there may be something to "replacement theory"? Maybe allow sufficient time to wash the blood off the sidewalks next time.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I believe that its assumed that Latin immigrants will vote Blue, as its the Democrats who have been pushing for lax border enforcement and amnesty.
People voting for whomever gives them what they want is a pretty common occurrence.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Seems "true" Replacement Theorists believe there is an attempt at white genocide, by means of non-white immigration, inter-racial marriages, low birth rate amongst white couples, etc. Obviously its silly.

I don't think there is a widespread organized attempt at white genocide. However, a reduction of the white-majority is a happy side effect that many endorse and celebrate. Which in itself kind of means that the CT has merit, from a certain perspective.

From a political standpoint, of course Democrats want to see this. It is funny to watch white Dems, who are more than happy to wallow around in white-guilt and self-loathing bliss, try to earn that minority vote.

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Old 16th May 2022, 07:32 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
People voting for whomever gives them what they want is a pretty common occurrence.
Yes but having loose immigration rules so as to eventually give them voting rights assuming they will pay you back in the polls, is not how things are supposed to work.

If the only way you can hope to win elections is by bribing foreigners, you dont deserve to win.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:32 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I know some people want the USA to keep its white majority, but they usually have basically racist or nationalist reasons for this. Its not like our immigration laws favor any specific race. They certainly do NOT favor non-whites, as very often European nations are on the diversity lottery.
The Greencard diversity lottery accounts for 50,000 greencards. You've got more than 1million legal immigrants per year and something like 10million illegals in the US. The Greencard lottery stuff isn't relevant.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Illegal immigration does favor non-whites, but that's just by accident.
This sounds like exactly the same argument that the left uses when they claim that laws that have differential impacts on marginalised groups are racist. In any case, you assert that it is an accident. I don't see how you could possibly know that.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Its not America's fault that many Latin nations are full of poverty and social decay.
Well, one could argue about that given some of the history, but it doesn't really matter since fault isn't really the issue.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Will white supremacists jump for joy if illegals start flooding from Uruguay and Argentina, with their large white populations? I guess.
I think it will come down to whether they are doing so in such numbers that they can swing elections, or depress wages etc..., and who is being impacted by these things. Very few people are so fixated on race that they aren't interested in culture and politics. Generally in these discussions race is just a proxy for those things.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:32 AM   #49
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Can all the usual suspects who we already know are going to be on the side of this nonsense just go ahead and jump in the thread now instead of trickling in one at a time and making us restart the discussion over and over?
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:33 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes but having loose immigration rules so as to eventually give them voting rights assuming they will pay you back in the polls, is not how things are supposed to work.

If the only way you can hope to win elections is by bribing foreigners, you dont deserve to win.
I think a grocery store full of dead black people killed in the name of the Great Replacement theory is an elephant in the room a bit hard to ignore, but you're doing your damndest not to mention it.

White supremacists are not solely worried about "foreigners". There's no non-racist way to explain why black Americans are a threat.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:36 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think a grocery store full of dead black people killed in the name of the Great Replacement theory is an elephant in the room a bit hard to ignore, but you're doing your damndest not to mention it.

White supremacists are not solely worried about "foreigners". There's no non-racist way to explain why black Americans are a threat.
I mean it's only logical. If you can't keep them out you just have to kill them once they are here.

It's really the Democrat's fault. If they didn't insist on non-white people being treated like humans and living in this country then there wouldn't have been anyone for him to shoot. QED checkmate libtard.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I mean it's only logical. If you can't keep them out you just have to kill them once they are here.

It's really the Democrat's fault. If they didn't insist on non-white people being treated like humans and living in this country then there wouldn't have been anyone for him to shoot. QED checkmate libtard.
It's worth pointing out that Great Replacement theory is more than simple nationalism (keeping foreigners out) and in fact hostility towards all non-white demographics, even those that are unambiguously, deeply American.

None of these people are going to lose any sleep about white Europeans immigrating here after all. You really have to be operating in bad faith to not concede that this issue is strictly seen through a racial (rather than national) lens. These freaks aren't shooting up the German-American clubs after all, despite them being bastions of foreign culture.

These people leave behind manifestos before they go on their killing sprees. It's not exactly a mystery what they believe.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:40 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes but having loose immigration rules so as to eventually give them voting rights assuming they will pay you back in the polls, is not how things are supposed to work.

If the only way you can hope to win elections is by bribing foreigners, you dont deserve to win.
But Republicans passing extremely strict immigration laws in order to win elections by keeping out those same immigrants would be okay?
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:41 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes but having loose immigration rules so as to eventually give them voting rights assuming they will pay you back in the polls, is not how things are supposed to work.

If the only way you can hope to win elections is by bribing foreigners, you dont deserve to win.
The other thing about this is that the political parties are looking 10, 20, 30 years down the track. If you have a group that is growing both in terms of having an above replacement birth rate, and new arrivals... you invest you energy into that. You can abandon your original supporters. If you were being really cynical, you'd let people in but keep large numbers of them illegal to keep them dependent on you not enforcing the laws and hoping that if they waited long enough there would be an amnesty.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:41 AM   #55
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As I said, the only way "Replacement Theory" works in the USA is if somehow by some magic power, whites have a natural God-given right to be a majority in the USA and Canada.

We simply do not.

Do ethnic Irish have a right to maintain their majority in Ireland? An argument could be made.

Same with Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, etc.

But NOT colonialist nations in the Western hemisphere. Whites have no such right or privilege.

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Old 16th May 2022, 07:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Florida seems to be an exceptional case as most Cubans were fleeing Communism.

Most Hispanic immigrants these days are not.
No, now they are running away from either dictatorial death squads or cartels that make old Murder Inc. look like 'we only kiss babies'.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
But Republicans passing extremely strict immigration laws in order to win elections by keeping out those same immigrants would be okay?
I think maybe there is a difference between winning an election based on the people who actually live in the country, and winning an election by importing new voters. Isn't it the current citizens of our country that we want our government to represent?
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:48 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
But Republicans passing extremely strict immigration laws in order to win elections by keeping out those same immigrants would be okay?
Passing laws to convince American citizens to vote for them, is perfectly normal.

Passing laws so as to bring in more immigrants who may become citizens and will hopefully vote for you to pay you back for the favor you did for them, is not cool. Politicians are supposed to be looking out for current citizens.

Full stop, The End.

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Old 16th May 2022, 07:54 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think a grocery store full of dead black people killed in the name of the Great Replacement theory is an elephant in the room a bit hard to ignore, but you're doing your damndest not to mention it.

Why ignore it? But it really doesn't affect whether this CT has merit, either way.
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Old 16th May 2022, 07:59 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think a grocery store full of dead black people killed in the name of the Great Replacement theory is an elephant in the room a bit hard to ignore, but you're doing your damndest not to mention it.

White supremacists are not solely worried about "foreigners". There's no non-racist way to explain why black Americans are a threat.
Crazy people do crazy things. Not sure how murdering a store full of black people accomplishes anything.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:00 AM   #61
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As ALWAYS, questions of immigration are being conflated with questions of citizenship.

Anyone here wants to claim that Dems let undocumented immigrants vote?
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I think maybe there is a difference between winning an election based on the people who actually live in the country, and winning an election by importing new voters. Isn't it the current citizens of our country that we want our government to represent?
First, no one is "importing" people.

Second, every succesful country needs immigration to continue growing, and those immigrants automatically become citizens of the country. Unless you want to prevent all immigrants from voting, there will always be non-citizens that are about to have a say in things.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
First, no one is "importing" people.

Second, every succesful country needs immigration to continue growing, and those immigrants automatically become citizens of the country. Unless you want to prevent all immigrants from voting, there will always be non-citizens that are about to have a say in things.
Immigration is a good and useful thing. But it needs to be orderly and controlled. Do you believe our current legal quota of 800,000 per year is too small? Change the law.

Immigration should not be used to change election outcomes. If your political views only have a chance via bribery of new immigrants, your views suck.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:05 AM   #64
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To take the questions seriously, their is a tendency of lefties and dems so celebrate the coming minority majority in the US and how that means there will be a permanent democratic majority, demographics are destiny and what not. It was overblown by both left and right.

But really it is mostly just racism.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Immigration is a good and useful thing. But it needs to be orderly and controlled. Do you believe our current legal quota of 800,000 per year is too small? Change the law.

Immigration should not be used to change election outcomes. If your political views only have a chance via bribery of new immigrants, your views suck.
Its the perception that it is uncontrolled that really causes the backlash. There's other issues with how the elites of both dems and reps have treated immigration that have fed into the trumpist rebellion in the GOP. All the talk about how is just good with now down side and anyone worried about it is just racist from the Dems with the Reps just giving lip service about reform. Well, it is an unalloyed good for the elites, the immigrants they deal with are just like them, elites. The poor are dealing with immigrants just like the poor only with completely different cultures and often languages, it makes folks uncomfortable. Its not just racist, its a perfectly normal predictable human reaction to having your towns and neigbhorhoods change. Years ago I heard a line to the effect of, "if responsible people don't deal with immigration then irresponsible people will", that's exactly what's happened.

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Old 16th May 2022, 08:06 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Anyone here wants to claim that Dems let undocumented immigrants vote?

Yes, this is currently allowed at the local level, in some areas.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/opini...yes/index.html

Right now it is just a Dem dream, at the national level.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:08 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Crazy people do crazy things. Not sure how murdering a store full of black people accomplishes anything.
Me neither. In fact, such things make me think about gun control. Or how we need to improve public education so people will be better equipped to resist such diseased ideas. Or what we can do to stop those who seek to gain political power by pandering to this stupidity. Or in my darker moments, it makes me despair for society.

What it does not make me think about is whether or not the shooter maybe, just maybe, might have been onto something. And even if that did somehow cross my mind, I'd probably give it a decent interval before posting my thoughts in front of a public still reeling in shock and horror -- at least I would if I hoped the discussion would be treated with anything other than anger and revulsion.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:08 AM   #67
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I used to hear it said that the second generation of immigrant groups tended to vote more conservative than their 1st generation parents.

I know I am not being very scientific here. . .but, it's not unusual to hear 2nd generation Americans to say something like, "My parents came over here with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They never took welfare and they worked their arses off! Why do I have pay taxes for (insert liberal social program) when all these people really need to do is work?"

If that's the case I often wondered why conservative Republicans didn't years ago seriously start trying to win over these kids, who are now adults.

If I recall correctly this is exactly the approach George and Jeb Bush took.

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Old 16th May 2022, 08:09 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
As I said, the only way "Replacement Theory" works in the USA is if somehow by some magic power, whites have a natural God-given right to be a majority in the USA and Canada.
How do you figure that?

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We simply do not.

Do ethnic Irish have a right to maintain their majority in Ireland? An argument could be made.
I think the EU will take care of any desire they may have for this.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Same with Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, etc.
Look, the majority of the world isn't liberal. The majority of the world is religious. The majority of the world is poor. There is a lot of violence in other parts of the world. If we just open up our borders and say "welcome brothers and sisters, we are all the same." The borders will be closed again, but not by us.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
But NOT colonialist nations in the Western hemisphere. Whites have no such right or privilege.
What is this focus on whites? This is a cultural thing. If you import enough people from other cultures into your country such that you are in a minority, then it ceases to be you are changing the culture of the country. Maybe you want Roe vs Wade to survive.... well tough **** if the people you let in come from a conservative religious tradition. One has to make a choice about what kind of country ones children and grandchildren will live in... immigration can have a big impact on that.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the people who are in favour of immigration are also the people who assume it benefits their cause.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Immigration is a good and useful thing. But it needs to be orderly and controlled. Do you believe our current legal quota of 800,000 per year is too small? Change the law.

Immigration should not be used to change election outcomes. If your political views only have a chance via bribery of new immigrants, your views suck.
We can't change the law. Republicans are scared of losing the election due to immigrant voters, so they are keeping immigration numbers low, even though a larger quota would make life much better for everyone. They are using immigration to change the election outcome.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:12 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
And even if that did somehow cross my mind, I'd probably give it a decent interval before posting my thoughts in front of a public still reeling in shock and horror -- at least I would if I hoped the discussion would be treated with anything other than anger and revulsion.

"Shock and horror"? LOL. Really?

I'm kind of past that sort of thing in these cases. I mean, if it were my friends or relatives, yeah, don't talk to me about it right now. But, on a debate forum? No problem.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:13 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
We can't change the law. Republicans are scared of losing the election due to immigrant voters, so they are keeping immigration numbers low, even though a larger quota would make life much better for everyone. They are using immigration to change the election outcome.
How many immigrants are in the US? What is a low number?

Our current system is essentially strict limits on educated and skilled immigrants with essentially unlimited immigration for uneducated and unskilled immigrants. I don't see the any effort by Dems to change that either.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:14 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yes, this is currently allowed at the local level, in some areas.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/opini...yes/index.html

Right now it is just a Dem dream, at the national level.
That would be ideal. Then you could get the loyalty benefit of keeping them as a permanent client class reliant on their protector and also get their votes.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:15 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I used to hear it said that the second generation of immigrant groups tended to vote more conservative than their 1st generation parents.

I know I am not being very scientific here. . .but, it's not unusual to hear 2nd generation Americans to say something like, "My parents came over here with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They never took welfare and they worked their arses off! Why do I have pay taxes for (insert liberal social program) when all these people really need to do is work?"

If that's the case I often wondered why conservative Republicans didn't years ago seriously start trying to win over these kids, who are now adults.

If I recall correctly this is exactly the approach George and Jeb Bush took.
There's a few articles that compare and contrast CA with TX on this. The CA republicans went hard on immigration and haven't recovered since, the TX GOP did the opposite.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:15 AM   #74
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I am struck that this conspiracy theory, like many others, really seem to lack a certain sense of scale or imagination. The world these conspiracy theories exist in always seem very small. There's no trends or forces at work, complicated systems spitting out results. No, it's the small clique of Jews pulling all the strings. Rather than contend with the chaos the world, real life is simplified into a series of conspiratorial cliques that control everything.

Real life rarely runs on such straight rails. You'd have to be a simpleton to think such huge forces are controlled by such simplistic schemes.

The idea that the Democratic party is controlling immigration, rather than simply reacting to forces vastly beyond their control, strikes me as a wild exaggeration of their power.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:18 AM   #75
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Immigration is a good and useful thing. But it needs to be orderly and controlled. Do you believe our current legal quota of 800,000 per year is too small? Change the law.

Immigration should not be used to change election outcomes. If your political views only have a chance via bribery of new immigrants, your views suck.
They US managed for decades without it. At the moment it is being used to mask the below replacement birth rate. If nothing is done to fix that, aspects of the problem will kind of take care of themselves as big parts of the existing culture die off.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:20 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
"Shock and horror"? LOL. Really?

I'm kind of past that sort of thing in these cases. I mean, if it were my friends or relatives, yeah, don't talk to me about it right now. But, on a debate forum? No problem.
Your tolerance for public mass shootings, especially those designed to instigate further interracial violence, appears to be several orders of magnitude beyond my own. Hopefully I won't live long enough to get to the point where my reaction to someone else's shock and horror at a racially motivated mass murder is "LOL."
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:22 AM   #77
Olmstead
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
They US managed for decades without it.
Um, source?
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:25 AM   #78
ahhell
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I am struck that this conspiracy theory, like many others, really seem to lack a certain sense of scale or imagination. The world these conspiracy theories exist in always seem very small. There's no trends or forces at work, complicated systems spitting out results. No, it's the small clique of Jews pulling all the strings. Rather than contend with the chaos the world, real life is simplified into a series of conspiratorial cliques that control everything.

Real life rarely runs on such straight rails. You'd have to be a simpleton to think such huge forces are controlled by such simplistic schemes.

The idea that the Democratic party is controlling immigration, rather than simply reacting to forces vastly beyond their control, strikes me as a wild exaggeration of their power.
Its like a lot of CTs, the most mild versions are at least plausible. In this case, Dems are more favorable towards large scale immigration because they think most immigrants that become citizens will vote for Dems. That's perfectly plausible and believable. The notion that this some master plan by a cabal of elites(the Jews!) is absurd. Really, what's the point, just hatred of white people? Last I checked, lots of white people vote for dems. I suppose, if the secrete cabal was run by the Black Israelites it would make sense but then, I don't think they like Latin folks that much either.
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Old 16th May 2022, 08:27 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I used to hear it said that the second generation of immigrant groups tended to vote more conservative than their 1st generation parents.

I know I am not being very scientific here. . .but, it's not unusual to hear 2nd generation Americans to say something like, "My parents came over here with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They never took welfare and they worked their arses off! Why do I have pay taxes for (insert liberal social program) when all these people really need to do is work?"

If that's the case I often wondered why conservative Republicans didn't years ago seriously start trying to win over these kids, who are now adults.

If I recall correctly this is exactly the approach George and Jeb Bush took.
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
There's a few articles that compare and contrast CA with TX on this. The CA republicans went hard on immigration and haven't recovered since, the TX GOP did the opposite.
It's interesting how the fringes of political parties can say and do things that scare the blazes out of their party's moderates and seal the doom on any efforts to capture the middle.

The far left democrats who shouted "Defund the police" in 2020 came close to handing both houses of congress over to the Republicans.

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Old 16th May 2022, 08:30 AM   #80
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So other than the outright racism the only thing we're going to get is bland references to it being "bad" if immigration affects the political landscape.
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