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16th May 2022, 10:27 AM | #121 |
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16th May 2022, 10:28 AM | #122 |
Penultimate Amazing
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16th May 2022, 10:28 AM | #123 |
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I guess "citizen" and "non-citizen" isn't a good enough distinction, right? Obviously this is a big change, if only 15 areas in the US allow such voting. Let's not be coy...I think we all know where this is headed, if liberals get to choose. Democrats celebrate a more diverse voting base, obviously. They would love to wake up tomorrow with less whites voting, overall. They aren't shedding tears as that base shrinks, no doubt. |
16th May 2022, 10:40 AM | #124 |
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Globalism blends all cultures together into a cross between a grey goo and "Its a Small World After All". Cultural identities need to exist within the context of other people practicing the same culture and producing their culture. Sure, the odd outsider is fine, but for the culture to really live... it needs to be the overwhelming majority. How Irish are Irish Americans really? It fades over time, and what endures is like the St Patrick's day version of Irishness. Very few cultures are suited to long term survival uprooted from their association with some region that is theirs, particularly now with the homogenising effects of media.
Why should the Japanese let this happen to their culture? |
16th May 2022, 10:43 AM | #125 |
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16th May 2022, 10:47 AM | #126 |
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Why should that matter? America proudly refused to take in refugee jews in 1943 when it knew the holocaust was happening why should we fail to live up to the standard set by the greatest generation?
https://time.com/5889460/american-hi...on-immigrants/ The jews were Europe's problem it was up to Europe to find a solution. |
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16th May 2022, 10:51 AM | #127 |
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Hercules' definition of a nation runs counter to the U.S of freakin' A in colonial times.
Dutch, Jews and Muslims in NY. English Puritans in New England. Well to do plantation owners who transplanted slavery to the old south from the Caribbean. Tide water Virginians from the English upper classes. Quakers in PA. Scots/Irish in early Appalachia. French. Spanish. Slaves and freed blacks. Assimilated Native Americans. Apologies to anyone left out. -------------- Dope Clock II: It's been 327 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth. |
16th May 2022, 10:54 AM | #128 |
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I think a view properly american on race is best found in Ben Franklin and his concerns over they degredation of the white race by those swarthy germans.
"Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased." Ben Franklin https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...germans/48324/ |
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16th May 2022, 11:01 AM | #129 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I would say it is debatable whether it was truly a nation. Maybe at first in the sense of being united around a shared idea.... but the Civil War is kind of evidence that it had ceased to be. It seems to go through periods where some new idea of itself holds it together for a bit before that falls away. If you don't have a uniting sense of purpose and identity, you are in a world of trouble as a country. What is the uniting idea of America and being an American at present that the overwhelming majority of Americans can get behind? Justifying national myths allow you to hold a country together without having to rely on force. The typical end result of failing to do this is violence and balkanization.
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16th May 2022, 11:21 AM | #130 |
Illuminator
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I am reading American Nations by Colin Woodard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nations
Quote:
Dope Clock II: It's been 327 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth. |
16th May 2022, 11:47 AM | #131 |
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The United States is a country based on a social philosophy, not race. The philosophy is laid out in the Declaration of Independence, and in the Preamble of the Constitution.
That's it. The Constitution is the mechanism for governing the country, while limiting the powers of the government at the federal and state levels. The Constitution - by design - can be amended to as the nation, and its people evolve. And it has been amended many times, and will continue to be. As to the OP: It's BS. Rantings of white trash who are too lazy to measure up, and or blame others for their own failings. Nobody complains about the Canadians moving here, or the folks from the UK. We're taking in thousands of Ukrainians at the moment to thundering silence from the right. But folks from Central and South America? ZMG! Invasion! I live in a largely Hispanic community in Central California where John Steinbeck lived, and wrote about. The issues in his books, The Pearl, Grapes of Wrath, Of Mice and Men still exist here, and in our Central Valley, only the faces are darker, and Okies are now the latest Latin American migrants. California's ethnic breakdown is this: 39% of state residents are Latino, 35% are white, 15% are Asian American or Pacific Islander, 5% are Black, 4% are multiracial, and fewer than 1% are Native American or Alaska Natives, according to the 2020 Census. Yet with the rise in the Latino population there has been no corollary rise in liberalism. In fact, a voter initiative to reinstate affirmative action in state college admittance was voted down, as have been other left-wing initiatives such as rent control. This next primary election will see this trend to the right continue, led by various local Latino communities. Why? Seems Latinos are capable of thinking for themselves, and tend to vote on issues based on merit, rather than blind party loyalty. If I ran the GOP, I'd have teams along the border waiting to greet those crossing the border with food, and shelter. And the whole time these teams would be passively indoctrinating our newest residents into the GOP. But I'm sneaky that way. Meanwhile, every day when I pull onto main road, heading to the highway, I see four or five large, orange agricultural robots/drones tending the Artichoke and Spinach fields, as technology has begun "Replacing" humans in the fields... https://californiaagtoday.com/farmwi...tion-to-field/ In short, the threat might not be a human one. |
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16th May 2022, 12:02 PM | #132 |
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I never claimed the USA is or ever was a nation-state.
We are a post-colonial nation, developed mostly by invaders who massacred the natives following an absurd and racist ideology of racial supremacy and manifest destiny. Unlike Ireland, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Lithuania, etc. |
16th May 2022, 12:04 PM | #133 |
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16th May 2022, 12:04 PM | #134 |
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16th May 2022, 12:11 PM | #135 |
Penultimate Amazing
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16th May 2022, 12:19 PM | #136 |
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Most of those countries were conquered and reconquered. Is there a point at which the US stops counting as stolen land in the way that Europe apparently has? I know it's a tired old thing to point out, but Native American tribes fought brutal wars and stole the land from weaker tribes. Was their ethnic destruction and theft just, and that of the white man not? Why?
What doomed the Native Americans was the advance of American industry and agriculture westward. Nothing could have preserved their way of life. |
16th May 2022, 12:20 PM | #137 |
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16th May 2022, 12:34 PM | #138 |
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No. You don't get to axiomatically define a country by fiat. 1776 is only the basis of the country so long as the overwhelming majority of the population believe it.
No indeed, but then there is far less of a culture clash when a family of Canadians moves in next door than a family of Somalis. A few Ukranians aren't going to make any difference. Cultures aren't fungible. What makes a difference is a million this year, a million next year, a million the year after that. It's laughable to suggest that one should also complain about a one off migration of some trivial number. This isn't some anti-immigrant moral principle that applies equally whether it is one immigrant or a million, it's a practical concern. Indeed, I wouldn't particularly expect a rise in liberalism through these communities. Ultimately I think immigration is a good way to end the liberal project, even if in the short term it gives Democrats an electoral advantage. Whether one thinks that is a good thing is up for debate. Sure, but I don't think a country can really run on bribing immigrants to vote a particular way with welfare treats and handouts. The GOP are dumb. Sure, that is something else. At the same time jobs continue to be shipped overseas, skilled labour is being imported along with a permanent client class. The elite are global and can easily escape the social consequences of all this. |
16th May 2022, 01:37 PM | #139 |
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According to right-wing talking heads.
More falsehoods. 11 Years of Government Data Reveal That Immigrants Do Show Up for Court More bollocks. I notice you never cite the sources of these beliefs of yours. |
16th May 2022, 01:47 PM | #140 |
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16th May 2022, 01:48 PM | #141 |
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16th May 2022, 01:49 PM | #142 |
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(replying to the thread title)
No, there isnt! |
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16th May 2022, 06:32 PM | #143 |
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"What if you can believe that white replacement theory is accidentally true for non-racist reasons" is a neat take, but it ultimately fails for the reasons that have already been brought up here by others: Hispanic immigrants historically cannot be taken for granted as blue votes.
It's supposedly been "true for decades" that Democrats believe they are and so are trying to encourage a flood of non-white immigrants, but these decades of immigrants have so far not turned the US into a deep blue sea politically. When is this supposed decades-old strategy supposed to start paying dividends? 50 more years from now? 100? Are we supposed to believe that between all the in-fighting as Democrats struggle like crabs in a bucket to get elected or stay elected just in the next year or two, they're all cooperatively planning or maintaining an enduring "long game" over-strategy intended to secure the political power of people who haven't even been born yet? |
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16th May 2022, 09:44 PM | #144 |
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16th May 2022, 09:56 PM | #145 |
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16th May 2022, 09:59 PM | #146 |
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"Replacement Theory" is just another way of saying "Dems are not Real Americans and therefore shouldn't vote!"
It's not about immigrants who will change the makeup of US society, it's about Progressives already having done so, and de-legitimizing their right as voters to do so. It's not about preventing a Path to Citizenship for Migrants, it's about disenfranchising current non-GOP voters. Americans claiming to be worried that Immigrants might not share their values are actually worried that most Americans don't share their values. |
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16th May 2022, 11:38 PM | #147 |
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The paranoia being instigated through Replacement Theory in the US is very similar to the current Indian Government's rallying slogan od "Hindu khatre mein hai" (Hindus are in danger.) In the end, just a dog whistle for racists and bigots to rally around.
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17th May 2022, 01:53 AM | #148 |
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Italy and Germany have only existed since the 19th century; Germany has subsequently been split and re-unified; Ireland (by which I assume you mean the Republic and are leaving out the Six Counties) has only been an independent state for around a hundred years; France is a mish-mash of what was a bunch of disparate dukedoms and kingdoms (ask Bretons and Basques about how they feel being under the rule of a Parisian elite) and Alsace and Lorraine have gone back and forth between France and Germany; Lithuania has been through many forms, including being occupied by the Russians against their will on more than one occasion.
Not good examples of nations being unified for centuries... |
17th May 2022, 02:02 AM | #149 |
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You can add Spain to that list where there are at least two indepenence movements (basque and catalan).
Japan has at least the Ainu in the north and the reason we do not hear about people in Russia and China who would not consider themselves part of either coutry is because those voices are repressed. Take a look at a nation and there are always people who disagree about what that nation is. Immigration or not. |
17th May 2022, 02:31 AM | #150 |
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I would like to see a summary, typed up by the thread starter, describing the different "cultures" of different countries, in great detail
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17th May 2022, 02:39 AM | #151 |
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It would also be interesting to know what are the aspects of the "caucasian culture" that they feel is being threatened?
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17th May 2022, 03:39 AM | #152 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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17th May 2022, 03:42 AM | #153 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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17th May 2022, 03:47 AM | #154 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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17th May 2022, 03:48 AM | #155 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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17th May 2022, 03:49 AM | #156 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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17th May 2022, 03:53 AM | #157 |
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17th May 2022, 03:54 AM | #158 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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17th May 2022, 04:03 AM | #159 |
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Just re-read some of the start of this thread and once again was struck by the very strange from my perspective use of "white" and "non-white". The argument doesn't make any sense from a "European" perspective as the group Hercules56 singles out as being "non-white" are "Hispanics" - which from this side of the Atlantic means white.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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17th May 2022, 05:22 AM | #160 |
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During the buildup to the 2016 Republican Primary, various pundits who supported Trump claimed that neither party wanted to deal with illegal immigration and it would take an "outsider" to fix it. The claim was that "Establishment Republicans" didn't want to deprive their corporate masters of cheap labor and Democrats were planning to make illegal immigrants citizens to buy their votes. |
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