IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Attack on Capitol , completely stupid. , January 6th , nancy pelosi

Reply
Old 27th January 2023, 06:48 AM   #1
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
A Conspiracy theory so Dumb it practically debunks itself.

The Dumbest Conspiracy theory ever,
has too be that Nancy Pelosi, tried to have Ron Paul's Waco Whackos, (the Oath Keepers) and Donald John Trump's Fasist Proud Boys, Murder Nancy Pelosi in an attack on the Capitol on January 6th 2021.
That conspiracy even beats out the Space Lasers vaporizing the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001.
What are your thoughts have conspiracy theorists really gotten so dumb they are self debunking their own Conspiracy theories?
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 07:04 AM   #2
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
I've said this before that Conspiracy Theories sorta jumped the shark a while back, part of our lovely transitional period into a post-fact world.

Okay let's look at arguably the two Ur Examples, Kennedy and 9/11.

Okay so there's a bajillion and one versions of each but let's break down their basics.

Kennedy: The general (of course there were variations but this was the most common) was that some... force wanted Kennedy dead. So they got an assassin to kill him from the grassy knoll, faked the evidence to make it look like Oswald had shot him from the School Book Depository, and had Oswald killed before he could say anything.

Now that's not what happened... but at least that's a good story. It's logically internally consistent, it just falls apart if you start looking at outside evidence. If you saw the Kennedy Conspiracy Scenario like in a spy movie, you could follow it as a narrative.

Now let's look at the Twoofers.

The United States government decides to fake a terrorist attack because reasons. So they fly fake planes full of people who never existed into the World Trade Centers which were also rigged to detonate with magic explosives. They then shoot a cruise missile at the Pentagon and say it is a plane. They create a narrative of heroic passengers that didn't exist taking down one of the flights before it can be used in a terrorist attack... I guess to give the story some heroic angle because of reasons. They then... attack a country who was harboring a terrorist who was already an international wanted man and later a country that had nothing to do with anything because... oil I guess.

See the difference? That doesn't make sense even if you believe it. It's just random nonsense that doesn't fit together or form a narrative. The actions and the motivations of the conspirators doesn't make any sense even within the context of the scenario we're being told.

IT'S STUPID EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE IT. It can't even be wrong right.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 27th January 2023 at 08:35 AM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:12 AM   #3
paiute
Graduate Poster
 
paiute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,393
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post

IT'S STUPID EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE IT. It can't even be wrong right.
That's how I set up my crimes - make them look so stupid that nobody will believe they happened.
__________________
A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine
Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong?
Now free for download!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine
paiute is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:24 AM   #4
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by paiute View Post
That's how I set up my crimes - make them look so stupid that nobody will believe they happened.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've said this before that Conspiracy Theories sorta jumped the shark a while back, part of our lovely transitional period into a post-fact world.

Okay let's look at arguably the two Ur Examples, Kennedy and 9/11.

Okay so there's a bajillion and one versions of reach but let's break down their basics.

Kennedy: The general (of course there were variations but this was the most common) was that some... force wanted Kennedy dead. So they got an assassin to kill him from the grassy knoll, faked the evidence to make it look like Oswald had shot him from the School Book Depository, and had Oswald killed before he could say anything.

Now that's not what happened... but at least that's a good story. It's logically internally consistent, it just falls apart if you start looking at outside evidence. If you saw the Kennedy Conspiracy Scenario like in a spy movie, you could follow it as a narrative.

Now let's look at the Twoofers.

The United States government decides to fake a terrorist attack because reasons. So they fly fake planes full of people who never existed into the World Trade Centers which were also rigged to detonate with magic explosives. They then shoot a cruise missile at the Pentagon and say it is a plane. They create a narrative of heroic passengers that didn't exist taking down one of the flights before it can be used in a terrorist attack... I guess to give the story some heroic angle because of reasons. They then... attack a country who was harboring a terrorist who was already an international wanted man and later a country that had nothing to do with anything because... oil I guess.

See the difference? That doesn't make sense even if you believe it. It's just random nonsense that doesn't fit together or form a narrative. The actions and the motivations of the conspirators doesn't make any sense even within the context of the scenario we're being told.

IT'S STUPID EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE IT. It can't even be wrong right.
Exactly perfect description of the alternative facts age.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:25 AM   #5
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by paiute View Post
That's how I set up my crimes - make them look so stupid that nobody will believe they happened.
That's the difference between being a criminal mastermind or an Inmate.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:29 AM   #6
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,556
It always boils down to the enemy being a Vampire: completely overpowered, yet at the same time ridiculously vulnerable in a myriad of ways.
Clinton is so powerful that she can murder and rape at will, but can be brought to justice with just a $10 donation to my reelection campaign.
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 27th January 2023 at 08:30 AM.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:40 AM   #7
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It always boils down to the enemy being a Vampire: completely overpowered, yet at the same time ridiculously vulnerable in a myriad of ways.
Clinton is so powerful that she can murder and rape at will, but can be brought to justice with just a $10 donation to my reelection campaign.
It also, almost always, requires the Evil Conspiracy to at a random point just stop lying for no reason.

Okay so President Bush and Vice Presidency Chaney just woke up one more and decided to invade Iraq for the Oil. So they made up a lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. So they invaded Iraq and after a few weeks/months admitted they couldn't find WMDs.

Why? Why didn't they keep lying? Why not plant some evidence or print up some fake nuclear weapons plans and "find" them in Saddam's desk drawer or something?
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 08:45 AM   #8
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Originally Posted by paiute View Post
That's how I set up my crimes - make them look so stupid that nobody will believe they happened.
"It's.... so dumb."
"So dumb it's brilliant!"
"NO! It's just dumb."

(One of the greatest exchanges in recent movie history.)
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 12:17 PM   #9
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
It's what I call The Dallas Police Theory - "Why attribute to to conspiracy what can be explained as incompetence?"
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th January 2023, 12:49 PM   #10
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
At it's base the one thing that pre-fact and post-fact conspiracy theories share is the idea that a bad answer is better than "there's no specific single 'answer' the world is just a chaotic place sometimes." They would rather be scared of one central blamable "evil" than a world where the crap and the fan intersecting is just a thing that can happen.

Penn Jillette once showed a clip where a conspiracy theorist went, in a scoffing, dismissive tone "Oh come on now. Do you think Oswald just woke up one morning and decided to shoot the President?" to which he replied flatly "Yes. That's just not a very sexy answer."

It's why the WMD story about the Iraq War got popular. Because people would rather belief that their own government is that weirdly specific kind of conspiratorial evil rather than the sad truth that the most powerful nation on the planet just got duped by the strutting machinations of a 3rd world dictator.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th January 2023, 04:00 AM   #11
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,895
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At it's base the one thing that pre-fact and post-fact conspiracy theories share is the idea that a bad answer is better than "there's no specific single 'answer' the world is just a chaotic place sometimes." They would rather be scared of one central blamable "evil" than a world where the crap and the fan intersecting is just a thing that can happen.

Penn Jillette once showed a clip where a conspiracy theorist went, in a scoffing, dismissive tone "Oh come on now. Do you think Oswald just woke up one morning and decided to shoot the President?" to which he replied flatly "Yes. That's just not a very sexy answer."

It's why the WMD story about the Iraq War got popular. Because people would rather belief that their own government is that weirdly specific kind of conspiratorial evil rather than the sad truth that the most powerful nation on the planet just got duped by the strutting machinations of a 3rd world dictator.
I know trust me I know they can't deal with reality as it is.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.