Medium finds missing woman in UK river

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Vixen

I am not even sure that tarot readings count as being 'psychic'.

Being a ghost-hunter, allow me to clue you in: YES TAROT CARDS ARE *ALLEGED* TO BE MYSTICALLY CHARGED.

That's the whole point. That's their appeal. That's why scumbag con artists use them to scam people out of their money.

Quote:

Like the lottery, it is pure happenstance which cards you draw out. The lottery balls start life as fifty identical plastic balls on a factory production line. They then have a number from one to fifty stamped on them. Likewise, a pack of tarot cards is mass produced. The blank prototypes are stamped with 78 different images and then cut into individual cards to make up a pack. Just as there is nothing mystical in picking out lottery ball number 5, there is no meaning to selecting a card with two of batons or ten deniers.

You've confused gambling with claims of mystically charged Tarot cards.

When people gamble they know they can lose, and accept it when they do. Unlike Tarot, no gambler is fed a line of crap. Unlike Tarot, few gamblers put stock in superstition, and the ones who do end up broke twice as fast.

Quote:

Whilst you might do them for free for your overheated friends, I see no problem in charging strangers for your time. Mr. Rothwell charging £30 for half an hours seems modest, given it is his livelihood.

Well see, I have ethics. I a basic moral code. I don't steal money from people, even the soft-headed ones. He could fix computers, he could paint houses, he could do landscaping, and make ten times more money. He provides no service. He takes money from people without the charm or class of Three-Card-Monty guys. He is a con man.

[CompusMentus]

Originally Posted by wareyin

Rothwell has made several claims which have been proven to be lies.

More dodgy claims from Rothwell......

In a YouTube interview with another "medium" (Tony Swindells about 2 years ago) HERE (At about 3 mins) He introduces himself as someone who's family comes from:

Originally Posted by Rothwell

.....a small working-class town in the middle of Rochdale and and we have been spiritualists within both branches of my family for the better part of 500 years.....

also

Originally Posted by Rothwell

.....if you go on the records you can find my great grandmother being arrested for witchcraft....but she was arrested at forty-something and she died at 113 in 1700 and odd.....so something was going on.

I didn't get much further. The woo-burns are bad with this one


Compus

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Mr. Rothwell charging £30 for half an hours seems modest, given it is his livelihood.

Given it is their livelihood, how much should Nigerian scammers look to fleece their victims for? Or perhaps could it be 'livelihood' is irrelevant and not justification when it comes to scams?

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Given it is their livelihood, how much should Nigerian scammers look to fleece their victims for? Or perhaps could it be 'livelihood' is irrelevant and not justification when it comes to scams?

I was thinking backstreet crack dealers, but they're all just crooks.

[Reformed Offlian]

Originally Posted by CompusMentus

More dodgy claims from Rothwell......

In a YouTube interview with another "medium" (Tony Swindells about 2 years ago) HERE (At about 3 mins) He introduces himself as someone who's family comes from:




also




I didn't get much further. The woo-burns are bad with this one


Compus

His great grandmother died in 1700? So his grandmother must have been born before then? His math is even worse than Vixen's.

[Vixen]

Scamming, phishing, crack cocaine dealing, obtaining money by fraud and deception are all criminal offences. Just report them to the police.

In the meantime if people want to frequent fortune tellers, read their horoscope, ring up Mystic Meg, buy the SUN, pot noodles, go down the bookies and spend all their money on horse racing, then that is their free choice as it is a free country.

If you want tarot reading and the Spiritualist Church banned, lobby your MP or stand for parliament yourself and get a Bill passed to make it illegal.

In the meantime, I would suggest the best way to stop people wasting their money is via education by parents at home and teachers at school so that people know how to spot junk.

[Pixel42]

Has anyone said they want tarot cards or Spiritualism banned?

Something can be reprehensible without being illegal.

Preying on the bereaved is reprehensible, and anyone who chooses to make their living doing it is a scumbag.

That's not to say those who turn to such scumbags have no responsibility for their naivety. Of course they do. All the information they need to avoid being taken advantage of in this way is freely available to them, all they have to do is look at it. But that doesn't absolve those who exploit their failure to do so. There are many ways to make a living which don't involve scamming vulnerable people, they have no excuse for picking one that does.

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by CompusMentus

More dodgy claims from Rothwell......

In a YouTube interview with another "medium" (Tony Swindells about 2 years ago) HERE (At about 3 mins) He introduces himself as someone who's family comes from:




also




I didn't get much further. The woo-burns are bad with this one


Compus

They must be really devout to clock up 500 years as Spritualists when the church only started in the 1840s.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

They must be really devout to clock up 500 years as Spritualists when the church only started in the 1840s.

Perhaps they were working 3 shifts.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by CompusMentus

More dodgy claims from Rothwell......

In a YouTube interview with another "medium" (Tony Swindells about 2 years ago) HERE (At about 3 mins) He introduces himself as someone who's family comes from:




also




I didn't get much further. The woo-burns are bad with this one


Compus

Speaking up for Team Jason, to be fair, it was an informal chatty session, so the mention of a great grandparent of indeterminate generation is acceptable and common vernacular if he was unsure what Nth-great-grandparent it was. However, even if this mythical great-grandparent was arrested as a witch, that is no indication they actually were a witch as modern research shows that the vast majority of condemned witches were just ordinary people, who perhaps lived alone and had a black cat, or perhaps offered home remedies for various ailments yet were not practising psychics at all.

As I said upthread re this particularly video, Mr. Rothwell is camping it up to fit in with the image of a medium being a really sensitive effeminate gay guy - with the vest and the lilac background - giving off Jimmy Savile vibes of showbiz personality playing up to the audience.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Speaking up for Team Jason...

Do you have team badges?

[kali1137]

Originally Posted by Vixen

As I said upthread re this particularly video, Mr. Rothwell is camping it up to fit in with the image of a medium being a really sensitive effeminate gay guy - with the vest and the lilac background - giving off Jimmy Savile vibes of showbiz personality playing up to the audience.

Yep not the signs of a conman at all..........

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Scamming, phishing, crack cocaine dealing, obtaining money by fraud and deception are all criminal offences. Just report them to the police.

Mediums usually have a... well, a "get out of jail card" which is to claim that their acts are "entertainment, only". Do you suppose they are up front about that when they take vulnerable people's money? When they "contact" somebody's dead loved one, do they then admit it wasn't for real? I've never seen that happen, but then, I've only seem mediums on the telly, so perhaps the director edits out the bits where the medium states it's all fake really.

Quote:

In the meantime if people want to frequent fortune tellers, read their horoscope, ring up Mystic Meg, buy the SUN, pot noodles, go down the bookies and spend all their money on horse racing, then that is their free choice as it is a free country.

Sadly, you would need a genuine medium for that. She died on March 9th.

[CompusMentus]

Rothwell builds his burgeoning CV

On tiktok today, a little dishful of claptrap self-served with a dash of emesis sauce


"We do not predict death. But....."
https://www.tiktok.com/@jaydroth2/vi...17356252531973

I'd love to do a Susan Gerbic on this ******* shyster I really would.


Compus

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Speaking up for Team Jason, to be fair, it was an informal chatty session, so the mention of a great grandparent of indeterminate generation is acceptable and common vernacular if he was unsure what Nth-great-grandparent it was. However, even if this mythical great-grandparent was arrested as a witch, that is no indication they actually were a witch as modern research shows that the vast majority all of condemned witches were just ordinary people, who perhaps lived alone and had a black cat, or perhaps offered home remedies for various ailments yet were not practising psychics at all.

...snip...

FTFY

Nope.

All were ordinary people and not witches.

Witches - as in magic and supernatural powers do not exist outside of fiction.

[wareyin]

Originally Posted by CompusMentus

Rothwell builds his burgeoning CV

On tiktok today, a little dishful of claptrap self-served with a dash of emesis sauce


"We do not predict death. But....."
https://www.tiktok.com/@jaydroth2/vi...17356252531973

I'd love to do a Susan Gerbic on this ******* shyster I really would.


Compus

This is probably not an issue in saner parts of the world, but some of us live in authoritarian regimes which do not allow tiktok.

Any chance of a key quote or synopsis?

[Axxman300]

Since I'm that guy I've always asked this question:

If they were witches, why didn't they use their powers to escape, and rain literal hellfire down upon their oppressors? I understand their accusers were morons, even for the time in which they lived, but you'd think at some point they would have figured this out. And if witchcraft was real, where was the witch-rescue squad?

All my years research have led me to wonder why people never stop and think just a little harder about the thing they're about to claim as paranormal?

Some guy found a body floating in a river. That's great, thanks.

No, no, he used his psychic "gift" to find the body? Really? How many other missing people has he found using his gift? What? None? Zero? Then the gift is BS. Shut up about it and go home.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Vixen

In the meantime if people want to frequent fortune tellers, read their horoscope, ring up Mystic Meg, buy the SUN, pot noodles, go down the bookies and spend all their money on horse racing, then that is their free choice as it is a free country.

Indeed, but they also have a right to have the goods and services they are asked to spend their money on described accurately. See, for example, the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

[LondonJohn]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Indeed, but they also have a right to have the goods and services they are asked to spend their money on described accurately. See, for example, the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Entirely correct. Just as if I went to a show advertised/described as "a magnificent display of plate spinning", and it turned out to be an hour and a half of a man talking about his model train collection.... I'd be similarly entitled to a refund and a pursuit of the man through the courts under trading standards legislation.

[CompusMentus]

Originally Posted by wareyin

Any chance of a key quote or synopsis?

Very briefly..........

In the 10 minute video he answers his own question, "should mediums predict death?".

Initially he says they shouldn't but then goes on say that he has predicted death to sitters at least 4 times.

He then recounts several (what seem to me to be) fantastical, unverifiable tales where he has done so [predicted death] with unerring accuracy.

You'd have to watch the video, I think, to perhaps pick up on this man's self-aggrandising manner and his obvious deceitfulness as I do.

BTW you're not on your own in Georgia see HERE :=]


ETA: The same video is on Instagram HERE if that helps?

Compus

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Vixen

As I said upthread re this particularly video, Mr. Rothwell is camping it up to fit in with the image of a medium being a really sensitive effeminate gay guy - with the vest and the lilac background -

Or maybe that's just the way he is, anyway?

Quote:

giving off Jimmy Savile vibes of showbiz personality playing up to the audience.

Well, that took a very dark turn. Good job he's not likely to see this forum, he might want to sue you for libel.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Since I'm that guy I've always asked this question:

If they were witches, why didn't they use their powers to escape, and rain literal hellfire down upon their oppressors? I understand their accusers were morons, even for the time in which they lived, but you'd think at some point they would have figured this out. And if witchcraft was real, where was the witch-rescue squad?

Did anybody ever claim that witches should be able to do that?

This is real life, not D&D.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Did anybody ever claim that witches should be able to do that?

This is real life, not D&D.

That's the thing. Either they had magic powers or the did not. They did not.

And yes, I get that the expansion of Christianity in Europe was the driving force behind this stuff, and that anyone who didn't convert was executed in the name of a loving God.

Not the brightest people back then.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

That's the thing. Either they had magic powers or the did not. They did not.

Not all "magic powers" are the same. if someone says "my magic power is to find dead bodies in rivers" we can't fault them for not being able to rain hellfire down on people who disagree with them. They never claimed to be able to do that.

This is why in the MDC it was vitally important to establish exactly what it was they claimed to be able to do, and not to test them against something that they didn't.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by kali1137

Yep not the signs of a conman at all..........

Not necessarily. There are many roles in which people try to 'look the part'.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Mediums usually have a... well, a "get out of jail card" which is to claim that their acts are "entertainment, only". Do you suppose they are up front about that when they take vulnerable people's money? When they "contact" somebody's dead loved one, do they then admit it wasn't for real? I've never seen that happen, but then, I've only seem mediums on the telly, so perhaps the director edits out the bits where the medium states it's all fake really.



Sadly, you would need a genuine medium for that. She died on March 9th.

So? Mystic Meg Inc. ® probably has about ten-years worth of prerecorded phoneline messages played on a loop to keep those massive profits coming in. We need to differentiate between showbiz entertainment commercialism and that weird guy down the road who really believes he can offer psychic readings, perhaps because people have spread the word and he has returning customers.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by CompusMentus

Rothwell builds his burgeoning CV

On tiktok today, a little dishful of claptrap self-served with a dash of emesis sauce


"We do not predict death. But....."
https://www.tiktok.com/@jaydroth2/vi...17356252531973

I'd love to do a Susan Gerbic on this ******* shyster I really would.


Compus

My impression of this is that he is copying that Swindells fellow, with the polished sharp fingernails and tear-filled eyes. 'I am so incredibly sensitive, I cry when I think of those dead babies and murder victims coming through to me'.

Mr. Rothwell put out a video on FaceBook three days ago, which might give a clue as to how he viewed Nicola Bulley (talks about 'eyes in photographs').

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Darat

FTFY

Nope.

All were ordinary people and not witches.

Witches - as in magic and supernatural powers do not exist outside of fiction.

I disagree with you. When I was doing some genealogical research from Northumberland records, I came across first hand records of witch trials. All of them seemed to be little more than taking a dislike to your neighbour, likewise the limited knowledge I have of the Salem Witch Trials seemed to comprise a whole bunch of people suspecting a whole bunch of other people. These were virtually 100% women. However, that is not to say that there were not genuine practitioners of sorcery. Most of the people put to death in Finland for sorcery, were actually male (warlocks) and likely genuine practitioners of the dark arts or of Shamanism, which was the religion of the Saami tribes in the north (there are three main ones, spread over Russia, Finland, Norway and Sweden) and let's face it all those skies filled with northern lights, glistening snow and herds of reindeer would be enough to make anyone feel mystical and spellbound.

JRR Tolkein got his inspiration for The Silmarillion and then the Hobbit and LOTR directly from the Kalevala, ancient Finnish folklore of wizards battling each other by throwing spells all over the place. Himmler came shlepping over Finland to discover the secrets of pre-christianity paganism, in the hope of resusitating it in his 'blood and soil' insane obsession with the occult.

Is there any evidence witchcraft was actually practised? Indeed. Archaelogists excavating ancient churches have discovered artefacts such as a box containing numerous pinned frogs, hidden in secret recesses. These have been taken to indicate the practice of a maleficent art, possibly intending the frogs to be some kind of effigies. So definitely not fiction.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Since I'm that guy I've always asked this question:

If they were witches, why didn't they use their powers to escape, and rain literal hellfire down upon their oppressors? I understand their accusers were morons, even for the time in which they lived, but you'd think at some point they would have figured this out. And if witchcraft was real, where was the witch-rescue squad?

All my years research have led me to wonder why people never stop and think just a little harder about the thing they're about to claim as paranormal?

Some guy found a body floating in a river. That's great, thanks.

No, no, he used his psychic "gift" to find the body? Really? How many other missing people has he found using his gift? What? None? Zero? Then the gift is BS. Shut up about it and go home.

Despite the efforts of early crusaders to forcibly convert pagans to Christianity, there was a lot of resistance from the peasants (heck, just look at all the peasant uprising when Vasa I tried to take away their Catholic faith in C16). In the end, the pagan influence pre C11 was so strong, they had to align Christian Holy Days, such as Easter, All Hallows and Christmas with the old heathen ones, and we can see the old traditions clinging on, so it wasn't a 100% victory for the Christians over the régime ancien.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Entirely correct. Just as if I went to a show advertised/described as "a magnificent display of plate spinning", and it turned out to be an hour and a half of a man talking about his model train collection.... I'd be similarly entitled to a refund and a pursuit of the man through the courts under trading standards legislation.

If you go for a £30 tarot reading and are dissatisfied, you are perfectly entitled to ask for your money back and to take if further if refused.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Or maybe that's just the way he is, anyway?



Well, that took a very dark turn. Good job he's not likely to see this forum, he might want to sue you for libel.

Firstly, saying someone gives off showbiz vibes is hardly libellous and secondly, it cannot be libel to express an honestly held opinion. In that particular video with Mr. Swindells it was not just his overly camp personna but mainly his voice and the content of their exchange about dead babies and the victim of an imputed murderer that did indeed make me feel so nauseated I couldn't get past the first ten minutes.

So sue me.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

I disagree with you. ...snip....

To disagree with me means you believe that witches had superpowers/magic.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Darat

To disagree with me means you believe that witches had superpowers/magic.

It is pertinent to distinguish between the fake and the wanna-be's from people who genuinely believe themselves to have psychic skills (as opposed to mere mimicry or commercial enterprise).

[Georg]

Originally Posted by Vixen

drivel snip
However, that is not to say that there were not genuine practitioners of sorcery.
snip

They were not genuine practitioners of sorcery, because

Originally Posted by Darat

FTFY
Witches - as in magic and supernatural powers do not exist outside of fiction.

If you have evidence that supernatural powers exist in reality, feel free to show some.
It is irrelevant if people believe that they have those powers, they still don't have them.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

It is pertinent to distinguish between the fake and the wanna-be's from people who genuinely believe themselves to have psychic skills (as opposed to mere mimicry or commercial enterprise).

Not when discussing the historic witch persecution, we know every single one of them were "ordinary people".

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by Vixen

We need to differentiate between showbiz entertainment commercialism and that weird guy down the road who really believes he can offer psychic readings, perhaps because people have spread the word and he has returning customers.

When we're discussing the validity of the service they claim to be offering, no such differentiation is required. Their claims cannot be justified whether they believe them or not.

And given the freely available evidence about that (lack of) validity, there is really no good reason to be more tolerant/understanding of the ones who have convinced themselves themselves they really are 'gifted' because their ignorance is willful. The number of willfully ignorant returning customers they have is also irrelevant.

[RolandRat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Firstly, saying someone gives off showbiz vibes is hardly libellous and secondly, it cannot be libel to express an honestly held opinion. In that particular video with Mr. Swindells it was not just his overly camp personna but mainly his voice and the content of their exchange about dead babies and the victim of an imputed murderer that did indeed make me feel so nauseated I couldn't get past the first ten minutes.

So sue me.

You compared him to a child molester.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

You compared him to a child molester.

Sadly we learnt that is run of the mill accusation and allegations for many without any argument, look at Elon Musk as an example.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Vixen

... We need to differentiate between showbiz entertainment commercialism and that weird guy down the road who really believes he can offer psychic readings ...

I think that is the legal purpose of a 'for entertainment only' disclaimer.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Firstly, saying someone gives off showbiz vibes is hardly libellous and secondly, it cannot be libel to express an honestly held opinion. In that particular video with Mr. Swindells it was not just his overly camp personna but mainly his voice and the content of their exchange about dead babies and the victim of an imputed murderer that did indeed make me feel so nauseated I couldn't get past the first ten minutes.

So sue me.

Unless you've been living in a hole in the ground for the last dozen years, you would be aware that invoking the name of Jimmy Savile brings in a lot more baggage than simply someone with a 'showbiz' vibe. If you were not intending to suggest that Rothwell is a child molesting necrophiliac, why mention that name at all?