Dear Users… (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people) Part 10 - Page 49

arthwollipot · 22nd February 2023, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

One thing I've discovered Linux, and Ubuntu in particular, is there's lots of useful information out there on the web. With Windows, a lot of the time I search for a problem and all I find are people asking the same question but not getting any answers. Or the answers that are supplied don't work, because they're all along the line of "well, I don't know what the problem really is, but you can try this ..." That's because some parts of Windows are so arcane not even Microsoft knows any more how they work.

There's also the minor fact that I'd been working with Windows for twenty-five years and with Ubuntu for a few months...

I literally didn't know where to start.

Wudang · 23rd February 2023, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

One thing I've discovered Linux, and Ubuntu in particular, is there's lots of useful information out there on the web. With Windows, a lot of the time I search for a problem and all I find are people asking the same question but not getting any answers. Or the answers that are supplied don't work, because they're all along the line of "well, I don't know what the problem really is, but you can try this ..." That's because some parts of Windows are so arcane not even Microsoft knows any more how they work.

Oh those blasted Windows support forums with the answers being, check for updates, reinstall windows etc when someone is asking specific questions. Uh.
I have a clear example of the final point. To help learn C# etc I decided to write a program to rotate user selected windows - something I'd done before when requested years back. Nobody could tell me how alt tab selected visible windows. It's not the visible window attribute. In the end I found a blog that says windows guys don't know so I added lots of debug until I found a combo of the visible attribute and an enum of styles that worked. Crazy. The official standard for MS Office file formats is basically "whatever Office does".

novaphile · 23rd February 2023, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

There's also the minor fact that I'd been working with Windows for twenty-five years and with Ubuntu for a few months...

I literally didn't know where to start.

The easiest way to start is to search for the error message, or symptoms on screen.

(Wild example: "black screen with flashing cursor")

I'm not an Ubuntu guy, but Ubuntu is based on debian (which I use) so feel free to PM me and I can see if I can help.

arthwollipot · 23rd February 2023, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

The easiest way to start is to search for the error message, or symptoms on screen.

(Wild example: "black screen with flashing cursor")

I'm not an Ubuntu guy, but Ubuntu is based on debian (which I use) so feel free to PM me and I can see if I can help.

This was years ago. I ditched it and now I have a Windows 10 PC.

arthwollipot · 23rd February 2023, 10:41 PM

Here's something that annoys us, though we probably can't stop it.

We resolve a ticket. ServiceNow automatically sends an email to the affected user saying that the ticket is resolved. They reply to the email saying "Thanks! SmileyFace!". ServiceNow reopens the ticket.

Hellbound · 24th February 2023, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Here's something that annoys us, though we probably can't stop it.

We resolve a ticket. ServiceNow automatically sends an email to the affected user saying that the ticket is resolved. They reply to the email saying "Thanks! SmileyFace!". ServiceNow reopens the ticket.

That’s configurable. Ours doesn’t reopen the ticket, but it will log the comment. The users have a specific link to click, to reopen the ticket if they feel the issue isn’t resolved.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

arthwollipot · 24th February 2023, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

That’s configurable. Ours doesn’t reopen the ticket, but it will log the comment. The users have a specific link to click, to reopen the ticket if they feel the issue isn’t resolved.

Good to know. I might recommend it in our Process Improvements chat.

arthwollipot · 26th February 2023, 07:41 PM

So... Remember when I said that we haven't had any major outages since migrating to O365?

Yeah. I've spent a considerable amount of time sitting here on my arse doing nothing because everything is broken.

novaphile · 26th February 2023, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

So... Remember when I said that we haven't had any major outages since migrating to O365?

Yeah. I've spent a considerable amount of time sitting here on my arse doing nothing because everything is broken.

I tried very hard to get everyone on my team to sing your "Everything is Broken!" song every time this happened to us, but only had a couple of takers...

Everything is BRO-OKEN!
Nobody can do work, when the servers are down.

Everything is BRO-OKEN!!!

Norman Alexander · 26th February 2023, 09:26 PM

I would join in the larking-about singing. But we are a hospital and some of our important clinical systems rely on O365 to work. So we don't get so much pestered as monstered from a great height when it breaks.

We DID tell the higher-ups they would not save money plus put patients at risk. They did not seem convinced. In a government department, decisions are rarely made using logic, common sense or parsimonious expense management.

arthwollipot · 26th February 2023, 09:43 PM

Everything came back, eventually. And it all seems to be working just fine. This was the biggest outage I've seen since we migrated, but it was still nothing like we used to get.

a_unique_person · 27th February 2023, 02:57 AM

It's great using cloud apps. Something breaks... not my problem.

zooterkin · 27th February 2023, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

I'm not too familiar with Exchange. My understanding is from a system administrator point of view, as an email server it sucks big time. It might be better as an integrated email, calendar, and task scheduling solution. Linux can do that, too, and possibly at the scale Exchange does it.

I used to work (originally writing parts of it, then supporting it) on an enterprise-scale email server that could replace Exchange as the back end to Windows based clients (and other clients too - Lotus and X.400 for example). It ran on most flavours of UNIX system, including linux. It was reasonably successful (it was being used in-house with over 100k employees using it, as well as some big customers), then some bright spark decided it should be ported to Windows servers too (NT at that time, IIRC). That seemed to get attention from Microsoft (which may have been the intention), and not too long after that the company replaced its own email system with Exchange, effectively killing the product - how could we sell it to other enterprise companies when we'd replaced it ourselves? The company also, at that time, sold a lot of PCs and they were rumoured to have got a good deal on Windows licenses around that time.

zooterkin · 27th February 2023, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

I used to have a reasonable ability to manage a VAX. Today I can't manage Win7, let alone 10.

I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm.

TragicMonkey · 27th February 2023, 07:30 AM

Party B:

2020: Can we get a copy of Report 1 that you give to Party A? We want to use the exact same numbers they do!

One week later: Can you do a different version of Report 1 that does A, B, and C differently from what Party A wants? This would be more suitable for our needs.

2023: Why is Report 2 different from Report 1? We should be getting the same numbers as Party A! What are you doing wrong?!

Trebuchet · 27th February 2023, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I would join in the larking-about singing. But we are a hospital and some of our important clinical systems rely on O365 to work. So we don't get so much pestered as monstered from a great height when it breaks.

We DID tell the higher-ups they would not save money plus put patients at risk. They did not seem convinced. In a government department, decisions are rarely made using logic, common sense or parsimonious expense management.

Back in the day, it used to be said that nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Today it's Microsoft instead.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Back in the day, it used to be said that nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Today it's Microsoft instead.

Which was the joke. IBM only ever leased equipment. You never actually owned it, and you paid through the nose while you used it. So yes...like MS O365.

JoeMorgue · 27th February 2023, 11:18 AM

Dear User.

This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk?

You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind.

No judgement per se, but it's just weird.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Dear User.

This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk?

You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind.

No judgement per se, but it's just weird.

No they haven't "worked" at all. They have spent their entire time tidying their desk and keeping it clean and clear. Or they are an android.

Aber · 27th February 2023, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Dear User.

No judgement per se, but it's just weird.

Hot Desking veteran?

TragicMonkey · 27th February 2023, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Aber

Hot Desking veteran?

Or someone insecure in their employment. I've had jobs where when things got shaky people would start to take personal items home. You see Carol from Accounting loading her car with plants at the end of a day it's a sign.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Or someone insecure in their employment. I've had jobs where when things got shaky people would start to take personal items home. You see Carol from Accounting loading her car with plants at the end of a day it's a sign.

That she has stolen her workmates' plants?

JoeMorgue · 27th February 2023, 02:01 PM

Nah this dude's been here for a while, isn't a roamer or does site rotations. He's at "that desk" as much as anyone is at a desk here.

arthwollipot · 27th February 2023, 04:46 PM

Microsoft Intune Admin Center has a massive UI flaw.

When assigning a primary user to a device, I have to go to the middle of the screen to get the Change Primary User button, then the top of the screen to search for them, then the bottom of the screen to select them, then back to the top of the screen to save the change.

Terrible. Up-down-up. Did nobody do UI testing on this?

arthwollipot · 27th February 2023, 07:06 PM

Argh! Why do these people keep calling? Don't they realise we have jobs to do?

Blue Mountain · 27th February 2023, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Argh! Why do these people keep calling? Don't they realise we have jobs to do?

I thought your job was to answer calls?

arthwollipot · 27th February 2023, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

I thought your job was to answer calls?

That's the joke.

Darat · 28th February 2023, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Microsoft Intune Admin Center has a massive UI flaw.

When assigning a primary user to a device, I have to go to the middle of the screen to get the Change Primary User button, then the top of the screen to search for them, then the bottom of the screen to select them, then back to the top of the screen to save the change.

Terrible. Up-down-up. Did nobody do UI testing on this?

These days.... ?

Faydra · 28th February 2023, 07:03 AM

<RANT>

My company, which I will admit has been great throughout the pandemic, giving us 40 hours of covid sick leave each year since it began, and a 'wellness' week off, and allowed us to work from home, has now swung its pendulum in the other direction.

Someone, somewhere has decided we IT folks get far too many perks.

We are required as of April 11th to return to work. In a new building. Freestyle seating (in case you don't know, thats where you don't have an assigned desk you carry all your stuff with you and choose an open desk when you arrive). Awful enough, but the thing that has most of us screaming from the rooftops is that they have decided one 27" monitor is the company standard and you will just have to deal with that.

ONE. 27. Inch. Monitor. Are you crazy?

There's a slack thread with people screaming from the rooftops how their productivity will suffer greatly. They don't care. Deal with it.

This may seem like first world problems to a lot of you, but I'm quite pissy about it. One 27" monitor. Insanity. Just Insanity.

</RANT>

jeremyp · 28th February 2023, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm.

The current OS is the bastard child of the Mach microkernel and one of the many flavours of BSD (4.4) with a bit of Apple's own code rolled in. This was over 20 years ago btw and it has evolved as much as Windows has in that period.

If you only used Unix as a user, a lot will be very familiar, but administration is very different to traditional Unix.

gnome · 28th February 2023, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Faydra

<RANT>

My company, which I will admit has been great throughout the pandemic, giving us 40 hours of covid sick leave each year since it began, and a 'wellness' week off, and allowed us to work from home, has now swung its pendulum in the other direction.

Someone, somewhere has decided we IT folks get far too many perks.

We are required as of April 11th to return to work. In a new building. Freestyle seating (in case you don't know, thats where you don't have an assigned desk you carry all your stuff with you and choose an open desk when you arrive). Awful enough, but the thing that has most of us screaming from the rooftops is that they have decided one 27" monitor is the company standard and you will just have to deal with that.

ONE. 27. Inch. Monitor. Are you crazy?

There's a slack thread with people screaming from the rooftops how their productivity will suffer greatly. They don't care. Deal with it.

This may seem like first world problems to a lot of you, but I'm quite pissy about it. One 27" monitor. Insanity. Just Insanity.

</RANT>

A great time for them to learn about today's labor market.

catsmate · 28th February 2023, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

I used to have a reasonable ability to manage a VAX. Today I can't manage Win7, let alone 10.

I have a VMS box here if you want some practice?

novaphile · 28th February 2023, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm.

I haven't turned on my sole Windows device since I retired, and I share your great feeling of calm.

I think the OSX software is one of the BSDs underneath.

I briefly ran OpenBSD and FreeBSD on a couple of my devices.

I think that the BSDs are more UNIX-like than the various linuxes, but don't really have enough experience to comment further.

(Hmm... Four sentences that begin with 'I' that doesn't look good.)

novaphile · 28th February 2023, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Dear User.

This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk?

You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind.

No judgement per se, but it's just weird.

Weird yes, but also mandatory 'clean desk' policy at many, many workplaces.

(Including my last employer.)

Work somewhere like that for long enough and that just happens to a person.

JoeMorgue · 28th February 2023, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

Weird yes, but also mandatory 'clean desk' policy at many, many workplaces.

The cubicle next to him has a crockpot and 3 foot tall inflatable dinosaur wearing a hat.

I'm going say that's probably not the reason.

novaphile · 28th February 2023, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The cubicle next to him has a crockpot and 3 foot tall inflatable dinosaur wearing a hat.

I'm going say that's probably not the reason.

Yes, but that's where they're working now.

I'm wondering about places they've worked before now.

Norman Alexander · 28th February 2023, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The cubicle next to him has a crockpot and 3 foot tall inflatable dinosaur wearing a hat.

Hey! Get out of my cube!

arthwollipot · 28th February 2023, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

Weird yes, but also mandatory 'clean desk' policy at many, many workplaces.

(Including my last employer.)

Work somewhere like that for long enough and that just happens to a person.

I remember when I was in high school, the teacher was trying to get us to remove our bags and books from our desks. "Clean desk, clean mind!" she said.

"Empty desk?" I asked.

novaphile · 28th February 2023, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I remember when I was in high school, the teacher was trying to get us to remove our bags and books from our desks. "Clean desk, clean mind!" she said.

"Empty desk?" I asked.

Comments like that had me kicked out of High School...

alfaniner · 1st March 2023, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Faydra

<RANT>

My company, which I will admit has been great throughout the pandemic, giving us 40 hours of covid sick leave each year since it began, and a 'wellness' week off, and allowed us to work from home, has now swung its pendulum in the other direction.

Someone, somewhere has decided we IT folks get far too many perks.

We are required as of April 11th to return to work. In a new building. Freestyle seating (in case you don't know, thats where you don't have an assigned desk you carry all your stuff with you and choose an open desk when you arrive). Awful enough, but the thing that has most of us screaming from the rooftops is that they have decided one 27" monitor is the company standard and you will just have to deal with that.

ONE. 27. Inch. Monitor. Are you crazy?

There's a slack thread with people screaming from the rooftops how their productivity will suffer greatly. They don't care. Deal with it.

This may seem like first world problems to a lot of you, but I'm quite pissy about it. One 27" monitor. Insanity. Just Insanity.

</RANT>

I have a vision of all 40 people on the floor crowded around that single monitor, each with their own tiny little Window open. It's like something out of Brazil.

22nd February 2023, 11:25 PM	#1921
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain One thing I've discovered Linux, and Ubuntu in particular, is there's lots of useful information out there on the web. With Windows, a lot of the time I search for a problem and all I find are people asking the same question but not getting any answers. Or the answers that are supplied don't work, because they're all along the line of "well, I don't know what the problem really is, but you can try this ..." That's because some parts of Windows are so arcane not even Microsoft knows any more how they work. There's also the minor fact that I'd been working with Windows for twenty-five years and with Ubuntu for a few months... I literally didn't know where to start.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224 Last edited by arthwollipot; 22nd February 2023 at 11:28 PM.

23rd February 2023, 01:06 AM	#1922
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 15,453	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain One thing I've discovered Linux, and Ubuntu in particular, is there's lots of useful information out there on the web. With Windows, a lot of the time I search for a problem and all I find are people asking the same question but not getting any answers. Or the answers that are supplied don't work, because they're all along the line of "well, I don't know what the problem really is, but you can try this ..." That's because some parts of Windows are so arcane not even Microsoft knows any more how they work. Oh those blasted Windows support forums with the answers being, check for updates, reinstall windows etc when someone is asking specific questions. Uh. I have a clear example of the final point. To help learn C# etc I decided to write a program to rotate user selected windows - something I'd done before when requested years back. Nobody could tell me how alt tab selected visible windows. It's not the visible window attribute. In the end I found a blog that says windows guys don't know so I added lots of debug until I found a combo of the visible attribute and an enum of styles that worked. Crazy. The official standard for MS Office file formats is basically "whatever Office does".
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

23rd February 2023, 04:41 PM	#1923
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 4,949	Originally Posted by arthwollipot There's also the minor fact that I'd been working with Windows for twenty-five years and with Ubuntu for a few months... I literally didn't know where to start. The easiest way to start is to search for the error message, or symptoms on screen. (Wild example: "black screen with flashing cursor") I'm not an Ubuntu guy, but Ubuntu is based on debian (which I use) so feel free to PM me and I can see if I can help.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

23rd February 2023, 04:49 PM	#1924
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Originally Posted by novaphile The easiest way to start is to search for the error message, or symptoms on screen. (Wild example: "black screen with flashing cursor") I'm not an Ubuntu guy, but Ubuntu is based on debian (which I use) so feel free to PM me and I can see if I can help. This was years ago. I ditched it and now I have a Windows 10 PC.
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23rd February 2023, 10:41 PM	#1925
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Here's something that annoys us, though we probably can't stop it. We resolve a ticket. ServiceNow automatically sends an email to the affected user saying that the ticket is resolved. They reply to the email saying "Thanks! SmileyFace!". ServiceNow reopens the ticket.
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24th February 2023, 12:04 AM	#1926
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 15,112	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Here's something that annoys us, though we probably can't stop it. We resolve a ticket. ServiceNow automatically sends an email to the affected user saying that the ticket is resolved. They reply to the email saying "Thanks! SmileyFace!". ServiceNow reopens the ticket. That’s configurable. Ours doesn’t reopen the ticket, but it will log the comment. The users have a specific link to click, to reopen the ticket if they feel the issue isn’t resolved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
	__________________ History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell

24th February 2023, 12:13 AM	#1927
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Originally Posted by Hellbound That’s configurable. Ours doesn’t reopen the ticket, but it will log the comment. The users have a specific link to click, to reopen the ticket if they feel the issue isn’t resolved. Good to know. I might recommend it in our Process Improvements chat.
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26th February 2023, 07:41 PM	#1928
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	So... Remember when I said that we haven't had any major outages since migrating to O365? Yeah. I've spent a considerable amount of time sitting here on my arse doing nothing because everything is broken.
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26th February 2023, 08:27 PM	#1929
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 4,949	Originally Posted by arthwollipot So... Remember when I said that we haven't had any major outages since migrating to O365? Yeah. I've spent a considerable amount of time sitting here on my arse doing nothing because everything is broken. I tried very hard to get everyone on my team to sing your "Everything is Broken!" song every time this happened to us, but only had a couple of takers... Everything is BRO-OKEN! Nobody can do work, when the servers are down. Everything is BRO-OKEN!!!
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

26th February 2023, 09:26 PM	#1930
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,992	I would join in the larking-about singing. But we are a hospital and some of our important clinical systems rely on O365 to work. So we don't get so much pestered as monstered from a great height when it breaks. We DID tell the higher-ups they would not save money plus put patients at risk. They did not seem convinced. In a government department, decisions are rarely made using logic, common sense or parsimonious expense management.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

26th February 2023, 09:43 PM	#1931
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Everything came back, eventually. And it all seems to be working just fine. This was the biggest outage I've seen since we migrated, but it was still nothing like we used to get.
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27th February 2023, 02:57 AM	#1932
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,256	It's great using cloud apps. Something breaks... not my problem.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

27th February 2023, 03:35 AM	#1933
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 55,835	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain I'm not too familiar with Exchange. My understanding is from a system administrator point of view, as an email server it sucks big time. It might be better as an integrated email, calendar, and task scheduling solution. Linux can do that, too, and possibly at the scale Exchange does it. I used to work (originally writing parts of it, then supporting it) on an enterprise-scale email server that could replace Exchange as the back end to Windows based clients (and other clients too - Lotus and X.400 for example). It ran on most flavours of UNIX system, including linux. It was reasonably successful (it was being used in-house with over 100k employees using it, as well as some big customers), then some bright spark decided it should be ported to Windows servers too (NT at that time, IIRC). That seemed to get attention from Microsoft (which may have been the intention), and not too long after that the company replaced its own email system with Exchange, effectively killing the product - how could we sell it to other enterprise companies when we'd replaced it ourselves? The company also, at that time, sold a lot of PCs and they were rumoured to have got a good deal on Windows licenses around that time.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

27th February 2023, 03:42 AM	#1934
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 55,835	Originally Posted by Trebuchet I used to have a reasonable ability to manage a VAX. Today I can't manage Win7, let alone 10. I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

27th February 2023, 07:30 AM	#1935
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,043	Party B: 2020: Can we get a copy of Report 1 that you give to Party A? We want to use the exact same numbers they do! One week later: Can you do a different version of Report 1 that does A, B, and C differently from what Party A wants? This would be more suitable for our needs. 2023: Why is Report 2 different from Report 1? We should be getting the same numbers as Party A! What are you doing wrong?!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

27th February 2023, 11:06 AM	#1936
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 36,544	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I would join in the larking-about singing. But we are a hospital and some of our important clinical systems rely on O365 to work. So we don't get so much pestered as monstered from a great height when it breaks. We DID tell the higher-ups they would not save money plus put patients at risk. They did not seem convinced. In a government department, decisions are rarely made using logic, common sense or parsimonious expense management. Back in the day, it used to be said that nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Today it's Microsoft instead.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

27th February 2023, 11:13 AM	#1937
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,992	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Back in the day, it used to be said that nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Today it's Microsoft instead. Which was the joke. IBM only ever leased equipment. You never actually owned it, and you paid through the nose while you used it. So yes...like MS O365.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2023, 11:18 AM	#1938
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,144	Dear User. This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk? You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind. No judgement per se, but it's just weird.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

27th February 2023, 11:39 AM	#1939
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,992	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Dear User. This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk? You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind. No judgement per se, but it's just weird. No they haven't "worked" at all. They have spent their entire time tidying their desk and keeping it clean and clear. Or they are an android.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2023, 11:54 AM	#1940
Aber Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,018	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Dear User. No judgement per se, but it's just weird. Hot Desking veteran?
Aber Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,018

27th February 2023, 12:37 PM	#1941
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,043	Originally Posted by Aber Hot Desking veteran? Or someone insecure in their employment. I've had jobs where when things got shaky people would start to take personal items home. You see Carol from Accounting loading her car with plants at the end of a day it's a sign.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

27th February 2023, 02:00 PM	#1942
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,992	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Or someone insecure in their employment. I've had jobs where when things got shaky people would start to take personal items home. You see Carol from Accounting loading her car with plants at the end of a day it's a sign. That she has stolen her workmates' plants?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 27th February 2023 at 02:01 PM.

27th February 2023, 02:01 PM	#1943
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,144	Nah this dude's been here for a while, isn't a roamer or does site rotations. He's at "that desk" as much as anyone is at a desk here.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

27th February 2023, 04:46 PM	#1944
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Microsoft Intune Admin Center has a massive UI flaw. When assigning a primary user to a device, I have to go to the middle of the screen to get the Change Primary User button, then the top of the screen to search for them, then the bottom of the screen to select them, then back to the top of the screen to save the change. Terrible. Up-down-up. Did nobody do UI testing on this?
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

27th February 2023, 07:06 PM	#1945
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Argh! Why do these people keep calling? Don't they realise we have jobs to do?
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

27th February 2023, 11:16 PM	#1946
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 7,340	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Argh! Why do these people keep calling? Don't they realise we have jobs to do? I thought your job was to answer calls?
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)

27th February 2023, 11:32 PM	#1947
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,132	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain I thought your job was to answer calls? That's the joke.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

28th February 2023, 03:11 AM	#1948
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,646	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Microsoft Intune Admin Center has a massive UI flaw. When assigning a primary user to a device, I have to go to the middle of the screen to get the Change Primary User button, then the top of the screen to search for them, then the bottom of the screen to select them, then back to the top of the screen to save the change. Terrible. Up-down-up. Did nobody do UI testing on this? These days.... ?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th February 2023, 07:03 AM	#1949
Faydra sinning sybarite Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,362	<RANT> My company, which I will admit has been great throughout the pandemic, giving us 40 hours of covid sick leave each year since it began, and a 'wellness' week off, and allowed us to work from home, has now swung its pendulum in the other direction. Someone, somewhere has decided we IT folks get far too many perks. We are required as of April 11th to return to work. In a new building. Freestyle seating (in case you don't know, thats where you don't have an assigned desk you carry all your stuff with you and choose an open desk when you arrive). Awful enough, but the thing that has most of us screaming from the rooftops is that they have decided one 27" monitor is the company standard and you will just have to deal with that. ONE. 27. Inch. Monitor. Are you crazy? There's a slack thread with people screaming from the rooftops how their productivity will suffer greatly. They don't care. Deal with it. This may seem like first world problems to a lot of you, but I'm quite pissy about it. One 27" monitor. Insanity. Just Insanity. </RANT>
Faydra sinning sybarite Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,362

28th February 2023, 07:14 AM	#1950
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,804	Originally Posted by zooterkin I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm. The current OS is the bastard child of the Mach microkernel and one of the many flavours of BSD (4.4) with a bit of Apple's own code rolled in. This was over 20 years ago btw and it has evolved as much as Windows has in that period. If you only used Unix as a user, a lot will be very familiar, but administration is very different to traditional Unix.

28th February 2023, 07:25 AM	#1951
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,767	Originally Posted by Faydra <RANT> My company, which I will admit has been great throughout the pandemic, giving us 40 hours of covid sick leave each year since it began, and a 'wellness' week off, and allowed us to work from home, has now swung its pendulum in the other direction. Someone, somewhere has decided we IT folks get far too many perks. We are required as of April 11th to return to work. In a new building. Freestyle seating (in case you don't know, thats where you don't have an assigned desk you carry all your stuff with you and choose an open desk when you arrive). Awful enough, but the thing that has most of us screaming from the rooftops is that they have decided one 27" monitor is the company standard and you will just have to deal with that. ONE. 27. Inch. Monitor. Are you crazy? There's a slack thread with people screaming from the rooftops how their productivity will suffer greatly. They don't care. Deal with it. This may seem like first world problems to a lot of you, but I'm quite pissy about it. One 27" monitor. Insanity. Just Insanity. </RANT> A great time for them to learn about today's labor market.
	__________________

28th February 2023, 08:44 AM	#1952
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,617	Originally Posted by Trebuchet I used to have a reasonable ability to manage a VAX. Today I can't manage Win7, let alone 10. I have a VMS box here if you want some practice?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th February 2023, 01:47 PM	#1953
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 4,949	Originally Posted by zooterkin I've been using UNIX systems since 1983 (including administering some and playing around with kernel and other systems code, though I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know), and Windows since 1988 (some programming, but mostly as a user). I've just got my first Macbook, and I've just worked out it basically runs UNIX (somehow the information that OS X was a switch from their in-house OS to UNIX passed me by), and the prospect of not having to deal with M$ Windows again gives me a great feeling of calm. I haven't turned on my sole Windows device since I retired, and I share your great feeling of calm. I think the OSX software is one of the BSDs underneath. I briefly ran OpenBSD and FreeBSD on a couple of my devices. I think that the BSDs are more UNIX-like than the various linuxes, but don't really have enough experience to comment further. (Hmm... Four sentences that begin with 'I' that doesn't look good.)
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

28th February 2023, 01:49 PM	#1954
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 4,949	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Dear User. This is gonna sound weird since I hate people who "nest" at the desks and have stacks and paper and potted plants and goddamn ice makers and coffee pots and picture frames at their desk so trying to reach behind a monitor and unplug a cable or something like that it like tiptoeing through one of those massive domino setups but... why don't you have ANYTHING on your desk? You've worked here for years. As long as I've been here. And you've got nothing. You've got a computer, two monitors, a phone, a keyboard, and a mouse. You don't even have a mousepad. Your cubicle walls are blank. No pictures, no plants, no sports knicknacks, no religious motivational messages, no certs or diplomas, no work related stickies or postits, no personalization or spice or flavor of any kind. No judgement per se, but it's just weird. Weird yes, but also mandatory 'clean desk' policy at many, many workplaces. (Including my last employer.) Work somewhere like that for long enough and that just happens to a person.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

28th February 2023, 01:55 PM	#1955
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,144	Originally Posted by novaphile Weird yes, but also mandatory 'clean desk' policy at many, many workplaces. The cubicle next to him has a crockpot and 3 foot tall inflatable dinosaur wearing a hat. I'm going say that's probably not the reason.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.