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2nd July 2017, 12:26 AM | #41 |
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Maybe not in freefall, but decreasing as a % of the population.
2016 - 22.6% 2011 - 25.3% 2006 - 25.8% 2001 - 26.6% 1996 - 27.0% Another 226 years (at 0.5% decrease per 5 years) and hardly anyone (read approximately no-one) will say they are catholic. As a side issue it looks like 2% of the population said no religion rather than catholic because no religion was the first option. Ref: http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/cen...0?opendocument http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/cen...0?opendocument http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/cen...6?opendocument |
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2nd July 2017, 01:55 AM | #42 |
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2nd July 2017, 04:48 AM | #43 |
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Let us have a look at no religion
2016 - 29.6% 2011 - 21.8% 2006 - 18.7% 2001 - 15.5% 1996 - 16.5% (This seems high. Maybe it should be about 14.2% to fit in the trend line) 1991 - 12.9% 1981 - 10.8% It is increasing, but I suggest that some of the latest increase is due to the fact that the no religion option is first not last. Plus a campaign for people to put no religion as their answer. The reference below suggests that this trend started in 1971 and has not stopped since. Ref: http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....age/2101.01991 then download the pdf of Census of Population and Housing, Australia in Profile Gives lots of interesting information about Australia up to 1991. |
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2nd July 2017, 04:56 AM | #44 |
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2nd July 2017, 05:31 AM | #45 |
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2nd July 2017, 07:17 AM | #46 |
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The decline should get bigger and accelerate as the church going population ages and fewer young people take up church going.
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2nd July 2017, 02:40 PM | #47 |
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2nd July 2017, 02:42 PM | #48 |
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2nd July 2017, 09:53 PM | #49 |
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2nd July 2017, 10:25 PM | #50 |
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3rd July 2017, 01:15 AM | #51 |
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3rd July 2017, 03:28 PM | #52 |
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4th July 2017, 06:31 AM | #53 |
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This Pell character : Why was it, seemingly, left to his discretion, and to the discretion of his boss, that he should face these charges? Why was he not simply hauled by his funny collar and dragged back in handcuffs, to be tried like any other ordinary criminal for the crimes he was accused of?
Is it that the law itself has special provisions for this sort of thing? Perhaps a provision that Church rules, as opposed to regular law, will apply when the offender a priest or clergyman (unless the Church waives off its special status, something like that)? Does this apply only to pedophiles? If Pell had been accused of robbing a bank, or of peddling drugs, historically or otherwise, would he then still have had this same apparent discretion of “deciding", at his pleasure, and at the Pope’s pleasure, to return and face charges, rather than being dragged back irrespective of what he or his boss felt about it? |
4th July 2017, 07:41 AM | #54 |
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4th July 2017, 07:59 AM | #55 |
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4th July 2017, 08:08 AM | #56 |
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4th July 2017, 08:12 AM | #57 |
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4th July 2017, 08:29 AM | #58 |
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4th July 2017, 12:58 PM | #59 |
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4th July 2017, 03:03 PM | #60 |
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Yes that is correct. The Vatican is a separate state that has no extradition treaty with Australia so the Pope could have dug his heels in and protected Pell within the walls of the city. There has been much speculation in the Australian press about this for months now. The Vatican has given protection to some in the past, but the fallout has been extremely damaging, so one must wonder what the conversation between the pope and Pell was really like. From the article posted in the OP:
Quote:
Would love to have been a fly on the wall when that exchange took place. I suspect Francis had Pell in an arm lock, and told him to piss off and not let the door hit him on the arse on the way out. |
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5th July 2017, 06:12 AM | #61 |
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5th July 2017, 06:21 AM | #62 |
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Total comic-book scenario, isn’t it? The arch-villain, all dressed up in a weird dress, lording it over in his toy country, offering refuge to all kinds of scum, and wheeling-dealing away all around the globe. While brainwashed Simply begging for septugenarian “expendable” mercenaries to go pay him a visit! (Strictly within the pages of the comic book!) |
5th July 2017, 02:57 PM | #63 |
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An amusing idea Chanakya. Getting back to Pell however. If some here are not familiar with recent history, he was summoned to appear before the royal commission in Australia some months ago, but ducked that by claiming ill health prevented him from long distance flights. I wouldn't mind betting he has a trick or two more like this up his sleeve. |
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5th July 2017, 02:59 PM | #64 |
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5th July 2017, 03:08 PM | #65 |
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5th July 2017, 03:20 PM | #66 |
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While Murphy exploits confimation bias acting on random results, Betteridge's law certainly holds true at rates better than random: Often, the reason why a headline is posed as a yes/no question is because the author is not certain the answer is "yes" and wishes to avoid the risk of being caught making a false assertion, or they even know the answer is no, the headline is merely a PR device, and a vehicle to pass a lie without literally being a lie.
Anyway, it hold true in the current case, too: No, the RCC is not in "freefall". If it is declining at all (certainly is in Europe and some other developed; on the rise in Africa, LA?), it would be better described as "decay" or "corrosion". |
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8th July 2017, 06:58 AM | #67 |
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-vat...ancis-backyard
If it was in free fall would senior Vatican officials be holding such wild parties? |
8th July 2017, 08:44 AM | #68 |
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All religions are in decline in the West with some declining faster than others. The RCC is definitely declining faster than most others. As for poorer nations. They are more susceptible to superstitions and religion. There is direct inverse corollary between the wealth and education levels of a country and it's religiosity.
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8th July 2017, 02:49 PM | #69 |
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I agree with you there with one qualification. USA must be either uneducated or poor as it is a religious nation compared with the UK and Australia and many other similar countries.
I think the answer is that something else is making USA more religious than other countries. I am not sure what. Maybe lack of security? |
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8th July 2017, 03:07 PM | #70 |
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I watched a Ted Talk by a demographer on this 2 days ago. Religion is very much on the decline in the US as well.
https://youtu.be/YtAR_OGzlcg Yes, it is higher than other Western nations. One of the arguments I've read for that is that unlike other Western nations the US has never had a State religion. It has always been a free for all. Another was the level of immigration was higher for a longer time. I'm not sure these are the actual reasons for this phenomenon. What seems to be clear is that religion is waning generationally. Children are growing up to be less religious than their parents. |
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8th July 2017, 03:22 PM | #71 |
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An amusing story thanks. Just a return to the good old days perhaps when The Vatican was like a whore house. I read of this in a book called "Sex In History" by Gordon Rattray Taylor some years ago. Francis has a lot on his plate these days and must have some doubts about the wisdom of taking on the job. The article mentions the Pell thing also. |
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8th July 2017, 03:24 PM | #72 |
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You could say that for Australia. Yet the biggest single religion is "no religion" in Australia. One factor that might have held it up is the Vietnam war. While Australia sent troops, USA poured just about everything they had into it. Yet lost. People had to have faith in something. They were suffering too much from the war. They could not have faith in their country. So they kept to their religion. That is my view.
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8th July 2017, 03:40 PM | #73 |
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Vatican outlaws gluten-free bread for Holy Communion
Well, now. This will just be the final straw. Not due to the fact that Catholics will insist on gluten-free hosts, but their realization that "I'm supposed to believe what?" (transubstantiation) |
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8th July 2017, 03:54 PM | #74 |
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Just watched it and David Voas presents a good case arguing that religion will not stage a comeback in the West. One reason for the USA phenomena may be there are large numbers of poorly educated within its shores, and when we look at religiosity versus education level within the USA the trend is obvious. |
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8th July 2017, 04:07 PM | #75 |
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They probably got some of their best minds on the subject, and figured the gluten is needed in the chemical composition, to make good Jesus flesh. Those with intolerance of gluten need not worry, because if the priest does the consecration right there would be none left in its original form. |
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8th July 2017, 04:11 PM | #76 |
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I think there are a lot of factors that contribute to America's religiosity compared with other countries. It was Americans (deriving their theologies from people like Quimby and Kenyon) who first turned the idea that wealth equals morality into a doctrine. Combine that with plutocratic systems of election funding and you essentially get to a place where religion equals wealth equals power.
Of course, it's more complicated than just this - like I said, there are probably many factors that contribute to it. |
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8th July 2017, 04:20 PM | #77 |
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Hot off the press! Pell has been spotted in Singapore and on his way to Australia it is assumed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-0...tralia/8690992 |
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8th July 2017, 07:41 PM | #78 |
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8th July 2017, 07:50 PM | #79 |
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8th July 2017, 08:20 PM | #80 |
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