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8th July 2017, 08:27 PM | #81 |
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8th July 2017, 08:45 PM | #82 |
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Typically The Big Dog comes out with one example (and not a good one) to question someone else's thought out post. If you were to look at the video acbytesla linked us to you would find a firm rebuttal. https://youtu.be/YtAR_OGzlcg |
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8th July 2017, 09:04 PM | #83 |
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Hey The Big Dog, if I can have your attention, what are your thoughts on Pell?
Some months back you came out all guns blazing, in defense of Mother Teresa against a lot of counter fire, so how about the cardinal? |
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8th July 2017, 09:35 PM | #84 |
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It's not even my assertion. There are more than a few studies that demonstrate this. I found it very persuasive.
I do have a few questions for the Big Dog. The first is. Do you have children? The second is, are your children as religious as you? |
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8th July 2017, 10:12 PM | #85 |
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I suspect another factor is that a motivation for many of the first immigrants was seeking somewhere they could practice their strongly held religious beliefs without interference. So the original population was already more religious than average, and perpetuated that tendency through early indoctrination down the generations.
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8th July 2017, 10:16 PM | #86 |
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Flying from Rome to Australia in one hop is a long flight. I think it is reasonable for him to spend a few days in Singapore to rest*. As long as he turns up for his court appearance I am happy.
*This is true for anyone. I would say it is even more true if that person was the age of Bell. |
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8th July 2017, 10:27 PM | #87 |
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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8th July 2017, 11:01 PM | #88 |
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Yes, but there are parts of America which still seem to have more in common with the original colonists than with the Founding Fathers. I'm trying to work out why that is. Religious indoctrination through the generations is one possibility, though I'm sure there's more to it than that.
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9th July 2017, 03:15 AM | #89 |
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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9th July 2017, 04:18 AM | #90 |
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Two countries stand out as being more religious than their high levels of wealth and development would seem to account for. These are the USA and Italy.
Italy, of course, is the geographical centre of the largest single Christian denomination, but the reason for the religiosity of the USA is not so evident at first sight. Although they were not atheists, the Founding Fathers of the USA weren't particularly religious by the standards of their day. And there never has been an established state religion in the USA, unlike in Italy. It is mildly mysterious. |
9th July 2017, 04:31 AM | #91 |
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It's not much of a mystery at all. All sorts of religious communities who felt themselves persecuted in Europe fled to the USA, and then started breeding.
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9th July 2017, 05:32 AM | #92 |
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9th July 2017, 09:03 AM | #93 |
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9th July 2017, 11:12 AM | #94 |
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The smart world traveller would not stop over in Asia but in the Americas. Los Angeles would be convenient, Mexico City or Lima perhaps slightly more interesting for the adventurous traveller, but I don't know if there are convenient direct flights to whereever he wants to go in Australia.
The reason is that jet lag is easier to compensate and quicker to get over when you fly west with the sun to make the day longer, than flying east against the sun and shorten the day. |
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9th July 2017, 11:14 AM | #95 |
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9th July 2017, 11:41 AM | #96 |
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9th July 2017, 11:55 AM | #97 |
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9th July 2017, 12:03 PM | #98 |
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9th July 2017, 12:17 PM | #99 |
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9th July 2017, 12:20 PM | #100 |
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Assuming Sydney as the destination, it's not that bad: 22 Mm (Mega meters) via L.A. vs. 16 Mm via Singapore. But still, you're right, 6 Mm is a lot of a difference.
Some years ago, I flew with my mother, then 80 years old, from Frankfurt, Germany to Auckland, NZ. The way to via Vancouver was 19.3 Mm, the way back via Hong Kong was 18.2 Mm - a negligible difference, and with two nights in both Vancouver and HK, we managed the jet lag great. I underestimated the effect the distances AUC-SYD and FRA-ROM would have. (Distances determined using http://tjpeiffer.com/crowflies.html ) |
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9th July 2017, 12:33 PM | #101 |
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I must have. Care to point it out?
I'm not a big fan of saying it is the cause. I do believe there is a correlation. I don't think if a person gets richer they become less religious. But I do believe with better educations and opportunities superstitions are less appealing as answers. Feel free to provide evidence that disputes this. I'm always open to better data. |
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9th July 2017, 02:38 PM | #102 |
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No it most certainly is not a good example for many reasons. 1. Although the GDP per capita is very high the ones earning the big bucks would be quite small as only 11.6% of the population are Qatari. The majority are non Qatari and probably earning peanuts doing all the manual work. 2. Only 3.5% of the GDP is spent on education ranking Qatar 154th in the World. 3. As the presenter giving the talk in the video acbytesla linked us to there is a delay factor in realizing the drop in religiosity due to better wealth levels. Quatar being a country of the "new rich" is a good example of this. |
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9th July 2017, 02:55 PM | #103 |
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Why is Qatar spnding so much money on education?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-18151511 I betcha it is because they would notice that the 3.5% number you just gave was a gross number and not per capita? we did! Per capita that number goes to 9.6 which exceeds countries like Japan and Korea. Oh the youtube guy says there is a delay? 2000 years or so? argumentum youtuian, very truthery. |
9th July 2017, 03:08 PM | #104 |
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As acbytesla pointed out it is much shorter going East than West (I make it about 7500 Km less using Google Earth), and the destination in Australia would be Melbourne not Sydney. Auckland, NZ is quite a bit shorter distance than Melbourne, Aust going West also. Pell's problem (according to his own words when ducking out of the inquest attendance), was the long haul flights. I thought it a rather poor excuse at the time, as did many others, because going East you can break the journey into lots of small hops. Not so going West. |
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9th July 2017, 03:25 PM | #105 |
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Well I looked at your news item and you may have scored a point about the education per capita angle. I got my figures from the CIA World Fact Book. My points 1 and 3 still stand however and you would have to concede point 3 if you had the courtesy to watch the talk acbytesla linked us to. You would then see how silly your last line of gobbledegook was. |
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9th July 2017, 03:49 PM | #106 |
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Wow! Pell has arrived back in Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-1...arance/8692760 I have to admit I was wrong thinking he would pull some last minute trick to get out of facing the court. |
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9th July 2017, 04:56 PM | #107 |
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The other issue TBD is ignoring is that the transformation takes time. The impact is made through the generations. This is why I asked him about whether he had children or not and if his kids were regularly attending. Someone who is raised in the church regularly attending is unlikely to stop identifying themselves as religious. What i do know is that churchs identify this as a big problem.
The people who use to attend 4 times a month attend 3 times a month and those that use to attend 3 times a month attend 1 to 2 times a month and so on. And religious indoctrination has declined as well. I don't know what is a fact and what isn't. Maybe things are all honkey dorey, but my bet is that religiosity is waning. Amen |
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9th July 2017, 07:19 PM | #109 |
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9th July 2017, 07:56 PM | #110 |
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"the Pew Research Center estimates that the 2010 Catholic population in Italy was 49.2 million (or 81% of the total population). In France, it was 37.9 million (60%); in Spain, 34.7 million (75%); and in Germany, 27.1 million (33%).4 These are estimates of the number of people in each country who currently self-identify as Catholic." http://www.pewforum.org/2013/03/05/d...ow-but-stable/
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16th July 2017, 03:07 PM | #111 |
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Never did get an answer on the above The Big Dog. Given that Cardinals are appointed by Popes, one would think a bad Cardinal would reflect badly on the Pope who appointed him. It would cast some doubt on the ability of the Pope to measure the worth of someone, and this in turn would question his guidance by God. |
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16th July 2017, 03:26 PM | #112 |
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You might think that. It is not even vaguely true. The RCC plays fuzzball with their most scurrilous members. Take a look at pell, Smith et al.
As far as I know TBD is RCC and every time the kiddie diddling comes up he runs for cover. Much like the pope. Now, raised as a "holy" RCC in the 93% catholic land of the leprechauns, I dropped the nonsense at about the same time as Santa. And I am not alone. Consider that we were the very first country to legalise SSM by popular vote. As a rule, I don't do nationalism at all, but that did give me a feeling of national pride. Murca somehow cannot catch up. |
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16th July 2017, 06:02 PM | #113 |
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16th July 2017, 07:18 PM | #114 |
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"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Almost 60 years ago I recall hearing these words at the beginning of "The Catholic Hour" on radio. Back in those days the Catholics I knew seemed smug in their belief that they belonged to the "One True Church", so secure in their conviction that their top man was the real thing, and their church service (mass) was being conducted by men beyond reproach who had been ordained by God himself. The Catholic who read there Bible and quoted verse was rare I think as I never met any. So it seemed to me the strength of the faith of the Catholic did not come from scripture, but from the church itself and unquestioning belief in the clergy. In the wake of all scandals in recent years it is the worthiness of these people, the clergy, that is in question today. Today we have the third highest ranking person in the church on trial for child sex abuse. A man who has already shown himself to be a liar in the testimony he has given to the royal commission in Australia. Is it any wonder this church is collapsing in the West. |
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16th July 2017, 07:29 PM | #115 |
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Gee, we'll take that up with John Paul II who has been dead for a decade.
Remember when people waited to convict until after trial? Yeah, that no longer applies. Cardinal Bernadin of Chicago was accused of similar charges by some lying **** who admitted that he made the whole thing up. Makes ya think huh? |
17th July 2017, 04:10 AM | #116 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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17th July 2017, 11:20 AM | #117 |
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You said Italy stands out as a "religious" country. "Religious" is not the same as "catholic", is it?
There may be more protestants, muslims and other religious folks in Spain, France, Germany. Poland has more catholics (87%) and fewer non-religous (10% vs. 20%) than Italy, according to CIA World Factbook. Portugal has more Christians, fewer unaffiliated than Italy. Ireland has more Christians, fewer unaffiliated than Italy. Greece is (officially) 98% Greek Orthodox. USA has 23% unaffiliated, Spain only 21%. Italy 20%. Also, identifying with some confession does not mean the people are more religious. Italy and the USA ought not be singled out as exceptionally religious. specially in Italy, I believe that is a cliché that's becoming obsolete, I feel. |
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17th July 2017, 02:19 PM | #118 |
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17th July 2017, 02:49 PM | #119 |
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Not a very impressive response sorry. You missed the whole point which is something you seem to do quite effortlessly so often - not intentionally is it? It is not any particular pope I am questioning the ability of, but the supposedly divinely inspired ability they exhibit as a whole. Picking one example of a cardinal who may have been wrongly accused does not answer the fact so many clergy have been found guilty. A very poor response. Sorry to harp on this but do you have anything to say about Pell? |
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17th July 2017, 03:07 PM | #120 |
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