|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
30th December 2018, 01:10 PM | #1 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
Does Islam Create Homosexual Pedophiles?
About me:
I have an English B.A. My stepdaughter is Muslim, yet stopped wearing the hijab at 16 and moved in with me and my Oregonian wife. (My wife's ex is Muslim, now married to his first cousin which I hear is common.) My daughter is Christian, thanks mostly to my ex's parents. I am agnostic, with a history of Christian upbringing. I frequent the 9/11 Conspiracy forum (not to flog truthers but to walk the gamut) and own the domain www.911conspiracy.tv (because in 2007 my wife's ex gave me a copy of Loose Change!). My latest video on YouTube is "9/11 Terrorist a Pedophile?" ... which summarizes the subject of this post in less than 10 minutes (although this post won't mention 9/11). This should help you decide I am not Islamophobic. I live in Oregon, so no regional conflicts give me a motive for hate. Also, my brother is gay, so scratch out homophobic too. Does Islam Create Homosexual Pedophiles? Pedophilia (which includes both the sexual urges and acting upon them) is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the clinician's diagnostic bible), detailed on this webpage. It therefore should not be accepted to any degree in any culture, as modern medicine and international law agree.
Quote:
While the U.S. hasn't ratified the Convention, U.S. law is plain. Any fan of "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit" can tell you that child sex abuse not only creates mentally scarred victims but also starts a cycle of abuse where the abused becomes the abuser as he re-enacts his abuse to make sense of it. This certainly plays some small part in the Islamic phenomenon of homosexual pedophilia. It is common knowledge that in northern Afghanistan, an Islamic nation, men often have sex with young boys and adolescents in a practice named Bacha Bazi, or boy play. The 2010 documentary "The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan" aired on PBS in the U.S., getting one Afghani man arrested and setting another on the run.... Related documentaries include "This Is What Winning Looks Like" by Ben Anderson/VICE 2013 and "'They prefer boys in Afghanistan': Dancing bachas recruited for sex" (RT, 2016). Below find a few quotes from these priceless sources. I will argue that the "ancient tradition" of Bacha Bazi ("The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan") -- and an unnamed behind-the-scenes homosexual pedophilia (and hebephilia/early adolescent) in multiple Muslim countries -- is a direct result of Islamic law which segregates the sexes, removing women from men's reach. Sodomy is punishable by death in seven countries -- Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria (in the 12 states practicing Shar’ia law), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen. Sometimes vigilantes do the murder. Seems to me Islam can't kill them as fast as it creates them. See "The Kingdom in the Closet" by Nadya Labi, The Atlantic, May 2007, which tells us that in "February a man in the Mecca region was executed for having sex with a boy, among other crimes." Yet, "(Judges will go out of their way to avoid finding that an act of sodomy has occurred, however.)" Believe it or not, Saudi Arabia has a large gay culture. Actually, most men don't identify as gay. In fact, much of Islamic culture has no word for homosexuality (coined in the 1890s) because there is no such thing as heterosexual either. (Sexuality and Eroticism Among Males in Moslem Societies by Arno Schmitt, Jehoeda Sofer, John P. De Cecco, Haworth Press, 1992, p. 5.) The men only perform the sex acts because they have no access to women. Nadya Labi of The Atlantic wrote:
Quote:
If asked who built the prison, you could rightly answer, "Islam." From The Atlantic again: "'Some Saudi [men] can’t have sex with women, so they have sex with guys. When the sexes are so strictly segregated'—men are allowed little contact with women outside their families, in order to protect women’s purity—'how do they have a chance to have sex with a woman and not get into trouble?'" For this same reason men recruit boys for sex.
Quote:
See also an Amazon preview of the book, where we find on page 3 under the heading "Psychology":
Quote:
Again on page 6 under the heading "Sociology of Cultural Interaction": "I repeat: the most normal thing is ******* boys. For the man, the buggerer, it is perfectly normal, if he is married and a father." (emphasis added) Islamic regions named in earlier pages under the heading "Pederasty" (sodomy with boys) are "North Africans and Southwest Asians." - Islam world map from Wikipedia To help us understand why this might happen, RT reports: "Tradition has made Afghan women almost invisible. It's as though they just don't exist. Perhaps it's that absence of women that explains why male sexuality is now often focused on boys." ["'They prefer boys in Afghanistan': Dancing bachas recruited for sex" (RT, 2016)] "The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan" points out that Bacha Bazi exists in "a society where access to women is severely restricted, but where young boys are easily accessible." Because it is wrong for a woman to dance in public... boys are put in dresses -- sometimes with artificial breasts -- with bells on their wrists and taught to dance, often seductively. Some of the Afghan men interviewed readily admit they have had sex with the boys. Sometimes money changes hands between pedophile and pimp -- after a bidding war during/following the bacha dance to see who gets to take the boy home. See military contractor DynCorp being implicated in spending money for dancing boys: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-dancing-boys Worst of all these boys have been murdered for trying to escape. (See Ben Anderson's "This Is What Winning Looks Like" here) The film took place at Sangin, Afghanistan. Boys were sex slaves, raped by the Afghan police commanders. One Afghan commander claimed "[the boys] like being there and giving their asses at night." This must be why one boy was shot in the leg at point blank range for trying to escape. No dancing was involved at the patrol base, of course. And there was nothing the U.S. could do apparently, except leave law enforcement up to the local... police. The New York Times published an article in Sept. 2015, "U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies." The article leads with a photo of "Dan Quinn [who] was relieved of his Special Forces command after a fight with a U.S.-backed militia leader who had a boy as a sex slave chained to his bed." The article notes "pederasty is rife," linking to a Feb. 2002 article on the same subject. The 2015 article sparked an investigation. The Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction 2017 report says the Leahy law (restricting funding of human rights violators) didn't prevent DOD from funding the implicated Afghan child rapists. (p. 2) The incidents under investigation were so few it was ridiculous. "Child Sexual Assault in Afghanistan: Implementation of the Leahy Laws and Reports of Assault by Afghan Security Forces" was the report title/subtitle, but the law did nothing and the assaults were not condemned. There seems to be a policy of silence on the issue, as well as inaction. The SIGAR report provides a crucial, recurring quote (similar enough), from the Navy’s "Operational Cultural Awareness Training-Islamic Republic of Afghanistan":
Quote:
If I'm to understand the source article at http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/homosexuality-ii -- Iran also has a history of pedophilia/hebephilia.
Quote:
Bacha Bazi has been seen in Pakistan also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2QBIQ-erYA -- More boys killed. Abu-Nuwas al-Hasan ben Hani Al-Hakami (756–814), best known simply as Abū-Nuwās, was a classical Arabic poet who also composed in Persian on occasion. He was particularly noted for his celebrations in verse of wine – and boys. Link.) More of his homoerotic poems collected here.
Quote:
Quote:
Other Possible Causes for Pedophilia in Islamic Nations? "Causes" of pedophilia in general (Wikipedia): low IQ, brain physiology, and a history of abuse. Not to say all Muslims have low IQs, I point to one study which concluded "Muslims have highest levels of schooling where they are a religious minority." (Pew Research Center)
Quote:
One argument against Islamic law directly causing men to lust for boys blames the history of such on Greek influence from Alexander the Great (Kandahar Afghanistan is named after him) around 334 BC. Can Greek influence from 2,352 years ago be considered as influential on today's sexual practices? We look at the Wikipedia page for "Pederasty in ancient Greece" to learn of a less abusive love for boys... but still pedophilia by today's standards. This ancient history may have justified the beginnings of the "ancient tradition" of Bacha Bazi somehow, but this can only be a partial, secondary cause for the current behavior (and suppressed urges also defined as pedophilia) of a large number of Muslim men. Muhammad's death was in 632. He is no doubt more influential than ancient Greece. Partial responsibility of course means sharing guilt. Likewise, Schmitt and Sofer tell us under the heading "Anthropo-Geography" -- "It is no coincidence that the core area of Islam covers the empire of Alexander the Great (plus Northwest Africa) or the southern Imperium Romanum plus Iran." Then, "The so-called Arabs just kept much of the Hellenistic behavior and beliefs of their Aramaic-, Coptic-, or Greek-speaking parents." (p. 1) Arabs can take refuge in there being an ancient influence predating Islam. Their culture isn't the only one involved in so much pederasty [this past 2,400 years]. Because it is a different culture.
Quote:
Islam is not for everyone. One Afghan man in the RT documentary said, "This nation is an Islamic country. That is why it is very bad for girls." I have to ask now, "Is it good for boys?" |
Last edited by zooterkin; 13th January 2019 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Rule 10; do not attempt to evade the autocensor. Also resized large image. |
|
30th December 2018, 01:25 PM | #2 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Way TL/DR.
Catholic priests anyone? |
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
30th December 2018, 01:39 PM | #3 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
|
NTL / R
I'm afraid I didn't get in there before the auto-redirection onto Christianity, the default response to any criticism of Islam on these boards, but having seen a documentary on these dancing boys and done a bit of reading around it, it certainly seems that Islam as a culture (as opposed to a personal religion, which is rare in the Islamic world) plays its part in this particular perversion. |
30th December 2018, 01:42 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,811
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
30th December 2018, 01:44 PM | #5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Add in the Greeks, the Romans, the who knows who else.
It's no secret Mohammed was a dirty bugger. Generalising doesn't really help though. |
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
30th December 2018, 02:21 PM | #6 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 707
|
Men in screwing anything that moves shocker.
|
30th December 2018, 02:45 PM | #7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Bring on the goats.
|
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
30th December 2018, 03:30 PM | #8 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
I would have added the obvious parallel to Catholic priests' examples of pedophilia, but there are not quite as many priests as there are Muslim men.
|
30th December 2018, 03:43 PM | #9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Your argument is that all muslim men are paedos?
|
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
30th December 2018, 04:07 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
Betteridge's Law of Headlines
|
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division. |
|
30th December 2018, 04:08 PM | #11 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
Not all Catholic priests are paedos. Likewise with Muslim men.
|
30th December 2018, 04:08 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
My .02
Neither religion or ethnicity creates pedophilia. |
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
30th December 2018, 04:10 PM | #13 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
Islam Creates Homosexual Pedophiles
|
30th December 2018, 04:20 PM | #14 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
Right you are. There is a complex history with multiple factors, not the least of which is the law of Islam which segregates the sexes, leaving boys and men alone with each other all the time, often without music. That's another crime I would say, built into Islamic law. No music? That's tantamount to saying no learning.
|
30th December 2018, 04:27 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
TFW a thread about child rape suddenly turns into a thread about music appreciation.
|
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division. |
|
30th December 2018, 05:13 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
|
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
30th December 2018, 07:09 PM | #17 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The island of Atlanta
Posts: 1,240
|
|
__________________
.. The stars were suns, but so far away they were just little points of light ... The scale of the universe suddenly opened up to me. It was a kind of religious experience. There was a magnificence to it, a grandeur, a scale which has never left me. Never ever left me. Carl Sagan |
|
2nd January 2019, 09:55 AM | #18 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
Wait, is heterosexual pedophilia okay?
What the eternal ****? |
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
2nd January 2019, 10:24 AM | #19 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
|
|
2nd January 2019, 10:33 AM | #20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
It's Madness.
|
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
2nd January 2019, 10:45 AM | #21 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,989
|
But it could be that a particular culture / society / ideology / religion allows certain preferences to be more widespread. For example look at British culture, until pretty much the 80s sexual child abuse was effectively ignored by mainstream society and if anything the child would be disbelieved and/or told to shut up.
So in British culture it has only been comparatively recently that child abuse has not been enabled by mainstream society. Does Islam encourage or allow paedophilia to be widespread? Well I'd need to see a lot more evidence that it is the religion rather than the culture that enables any such thing. To me I suspect that it will be more akin to something like "honour killing" in that it is certain cultures regardless of religion that such behaviour is if not accepted tolerated. |
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
3rd January 2019, 06:53 PM | #22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,838
|
|
__________________
"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
|
5th January 2019, 09:19 AM | #23 |
Satan's Helper
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 44,024
|
|
__________________
"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan |
|
5th January 2019, 01:37 PM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,217
|
|
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
|
5th January 2019, 04:01 PM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
The Sultans of Swinging?
Or Tunnel of Love? |
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
5th January 2019, 04:03 PM | #26 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,349
|
|
7th January 2019, 03:37 PM | #27 |
Scholar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 100
|
|
11th January 2019, 06:09 PM | #28 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 176
|
Of course music is played when the Afghan boys dance in place of women, as they shake their bell bracelets. Again, watch "Dancing Boys of Afghanistan."
My daughter (step) would have had her phone confiscated by her dad if she had let him see it. Too many popular songs. A controversial subject, music in Islamic culture. Link: https://www.parhlo.com/is-music-prohibited-in-islam/ Link: https://www.al-islam.org/music-and-i...ff/quran-music Would the classification of pedophilia as a mental illness not apply in a culture where such behavior was relatively common? |
12th January 2019, 11:27 PM | #29 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,428
|
|
22nd January 2019, 04:07 PM | #30 |
Mrs. Rincewind
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lancre Kingdom/Adirondack Mountain Region, NY
Posts: 4,341
|
Conflating homosexual men with pedophiles is such an old trope Caesar probably heard it. Gay men are not pedophiles. Pedophiles (even those who prey on boys) are not homosexuals. They arent the same thing. At all. And neither is "made".
|
__________________
Non ergo nothi tere vos usque. |
|
22nd January 2019, 08:03 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
pedophilia =/= sexual exploitation of children
Sometimes there are cultural norms which we (rightly) find appalling, but I don't think this child assault and marriages actually point to a society of pedophiles. And careful and remember pedophilia doesn't deal with minors, but prepubescent children. |
1st February 2019, 01:35 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
No more then other religions did.
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|