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Old 12th June 2019, 09:12 AM   #241
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Lack of belief is not a belief, no matter how many times you deny it.

.
You are 100% wrong.



Believing that something exists is also belief.

Believing that something does not exist is also belief.

Believing that someone is lying is faith.

Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.

It's all faith.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:15 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, I've said the same thing from the beginning. But maybe Google Translate may have used different terms when translating my sentences into English.
Maybe. As they are nonsensical. What we desire is irrelevant. It's a post hoc fallacy.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:17 AM   #243
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Meanwhile, it tells verses that alcoholic drinks are not forbidden and are in Paradise. I wrote about it:

ACCORDING TO THE QURAN , ALCOHOL IS NOT HARAM, IT IS "CONDITIONAL HALAL"


As the followers of the Quran know, only God can determine what is halal (lawful) or haram (forbidden).

16/116*And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: "This is lawful, and that is forbidden;" that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.

16/35*And those who were polytheists said: "If God had wished, we would not have served a thing other than Him; neither us nor our fathers; nor would we have made unlawful anything other than from Him." Those before them did exactly the same thing; so are the messengers required to do anything except deliver with clarity?

And the forbidden/haram food and drink (the blood) are announced explicitly by our Lord in His book:

5/3*Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on altars, and what you divide through arrows of chance. This is vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not be concerned by them, but be concerned by Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have approved submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

However, interpreters of the Quran hide our Lord's message by distorting the meaning of a verse (5/93), thus they can add other harams to the God's list. There is a passage in surah Al-Ma'idah about "hamr" which is translated as either alcohol, intoxicants or wine. This passage is between the verses 90-93 and the next verse 94 starts a new topic.
5/90*O you who believe, alcohol, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted - by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

5/91*The devil only wants to cause strife between you through alcohol and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?

5/92*And obey God and obey the messenger, and be aware. If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver clearly.

5/93*There is no sin upon those who believe and do good works for what they eat* if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

*The verb "ta'ima" (translated as what they eat above) applies to eating and drinking (taste) in Arabic and the 93rd verse of surah 5 shows that the drinking hamr (alcohol or wine) or eating beef marinated in wine is NOT haram for "believers" as long as they avoid the work of Satan.

To be more specific, (illicit) sex is forbidden, but the exception is lawful sex. Having lawful sex with spouses is halal for believers. Just like sex is "conditional halal" for believers, drinking alcohol is conditional halal for believers as long as they meet the criteria stated in 5/93 and are able to avoid the work of Satan.

Some interpretors distort the true meaning of this verse (5/93) and dare to make some additions to the God's words in brackets. They translate the sentence in past tense (what they have tasted/ they tasted) and claim that the word "taste" refers to a time period before the prohibition of alcohol. However, this is obviously mistranslation because what is haram (shirk) for believers is describing something as haram before the God prohibits it. In other words, mistranslating this verse referring to the past leads to logical fallacy in the Quran.

To summarize, as is stated in 16/67 the alcohol, the substance itself, is good and lawful provision:

16/67*And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make strong drink and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.

16/114*So eat from what God has provided you, that which is good and lawful, and be thankful for the blessing of God, if it is indeed He whom you serve.

16/115*He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.

What is illicit in "hamr" (alcohol or wine) for believers (2/219) is explained in 5/91 and it is not forbidden as long as one can meet the criteria in 5/93.

7/32*Say: "Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

Because "hamr" is a nice provision in here, the public of paradise will be served hamr in the hereafter. (47/15)

Peace

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 12th June 2019 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:40 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You are 100% wrong.



Believing that something exists is also belief.

Believing that something does not exist is also belief.

Believing that someone is lying is faith.

Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.

It's all faith.
I am your God. This is not faith. This is fact.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:42 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Meanwhile, it tells verses that alcoholic drinks are not forbidden and are in Paradise. I wrote about it:

ACCORDING TO THE QURAN , ALCOHOL IS NOT HARAM, IT IS "CONDITIONAL HALAL"


As the followers of the Quran know, only God can determine what is halal (lawful) or haram (forbidden).

16/116*And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: "This is lawful, and that is forbidden;" that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.

16/35*And those who were polytheists said: "If God had wished, we would not have served a thing other than Him; neither us nor our fathers; nor would we have made unlawful anything other than from Him." Those before them did exactly the same thing; so are the messengers required to do anything except deliver with clarity?

And the forbidden/haram food and drink (the blood) are announced explicitly by our Lord in His book:

5/3*Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on altars, and what you divide through arrows of chance. This is vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not be concerned by them, but be concerned by Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have approved submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

However, interpreters of the Quran hide our Lord's message by distorting the meaning of a verse (5/93), thus they can add other harams to the God's list. There is a passage in surah Al-Ma'idah about "hamr" which is translated as either alcohol, intoxicants or wine. This passage is between the verses 90-93 and the next verse 94 starts a new topic.
5/90*O you who believe, alcohol, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted - by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

5/91*The devil only wants to cause strife between you through alcohol and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?

5/92*And obey God and obey the messenger, and be aware. If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver clearly.

5/93*There is no sin upon those who believe and do good works for what they eat* if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

*The verb "ta'ima" (translated as what they eat above) applies to eating and drinking (taste) in Arabic and the 93rd verse of surah 5 shows that the drinking hamr (alcohol or wine) or eating beef marinated in wine is NOT haram for "believers" as long as they avoid the work of Satan.

To be more specific, (illicit) sex is forbidden, but the exception is lawful sex. Having lawful sex with spouses is halal for believers. Just like sex is "conditional halal" for believers, drinking alcohol is conditional halal for believers as long as they meet the criteria stated in 5/93 and are able to avoid the work of Satan.

Some interpretors distort the true meaning of this verse (5/93) and dare to make some additions to the God's words in brackets. They translate the sentence in past tense (what they have tasted/ they tasted) and claim that the word "taste" refers to a time period before the prohibition of alcohol. However, this is obviously mistranslation because what is haram (shirk) for believers is describing something as haram before the God prohibits it. In other words, mistranslating this verse referring to the past leads to logical fallacy in the Quran.

To summarize, as is stated in 16/67 the alcohol, the substance itself, is good and lawful provision:

16/67*And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make strong drink and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.

16/114*So eat from what God has provided you, that which is good and lawful, and be thankful for the blessing of God, if it is indeed He whom you serve.

16/115*He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.

What is illicit in "hamr" (alcohol or wine) for believers (2/219) is explained in 5/91 and it is not forbidden as long as one can meet the criteria in 5/93.

7/32*Say: "Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

Because "hamr" is a nice provision in here, the public of paradise will be served hamr in the hereafter. (47/15)

Peace
SO?

Again, why should we care what the Quran says about alcohol? Why should we care what it says about anything?

How does one come to the conclusion that it is the inspired word of God? How do you know that its words are anything more than the words of any other ignorant illiterate bronze age peasant?
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:05 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Meanwhile, it tells verses that alcoholic drinks are not forbidden and are in Paradise.
Yet many Muslims believe they are not allowed to drink alcohol. Which brings us back to the same sectarian argument you have always avoided. You interpret the Qur'an one way. Others interpret it another way. You assure us that you're the one who's right. The others assure us they're the ones who are right.

Solve that problem for me.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:06 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You are 100% wrong.

Believing that something exists is also belief.
True. In fact, it is a tautology. Believing is the active form of the word "belief"

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Believing that something does not exist is also belief.
This is also true. But this is not atheism. Disbelief is not a belief. It is simply withholding belief. Saying I am not convinced there is a god is not the same as saying there is no god.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Believing that someone is lying is faith.
TOTALLY FALSE. You need to learn English. Faith is the reason some people give when they have no reason. It's an excuse. That is all.

If I believe you are lying, because I have evidence that what you are saying is false, that is not faith.

If anything, faith is a presupposition.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.

It's all faith.
You're twisting up the English language. Again, faith is merely a presupposition. You've made up your mind BEFORE you have evidence or history. And the way most religions use the word as a copout. It's because they don't want to justify an irrational belief.
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Last edited by acbytesla; 12th June 2019 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:13 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Believing that something exists is also belief.
You're just equivocating again. Belief in existence without evidence of existence is faith. Belief in existence with evidence is belief. Belief in existence with strong evidence and a lack of contravening evidence is knowledge. You're trying to tell us that faith in Allah and the Qur'an is so strong that it approaches, if not achieves, knowledge. But you refuse to provide any evidence for existence, except that which has already been studied and rejected because you don't know what evidence is.

Quote:
Believing that something does not exist is also belief.
No. Declining to believe in the existence of something for which there is no evidence is belief only in the tautological sense. We decline to have the faith you invite us to have, and we refute the basis by which you declare your belief to be knowledge.

You're trying desperately to equivocate "belief" so that it means our rational unwillingness to adopt your proffered belief is somehow itself an affirmative belief itself, and therefore somehow irrational in the face of evidence you can't present.

Quote:
Believing that someone is lying is faith.
Believing that someone is lying where there is no evidence either way is akin to faith. Believing that someone is lying because one can produce facts that contravene the statement in question is akin to knowledge.

Quote:
Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.
Believing that someone is telling the truth where there is no evidence either way is akin to faith. However, we are socially conditioned to presume a person is being truthful in the absence of evidence to test it. Believing that someone is telling the truth because his statement is fully consistent with observable, testable fact is akin to knowledge.

Quote:
It's all faith.
No. You're 100% wrong. You don't get to make the effect of evidence disappear just because evidence is inconvenient to your proselyting.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:49 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Believing that something exists is also belief.

Believing that something does not exist is also belief.
How about having no opinion on the matter? That's what atheism is, by the way.

Quote:
Believing that someone is lying is faith.
No.

Quote:
Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.
No.

Quote:
It's all faith.
No.

You don't get to label everything "faith" just because it allows, in your mind, your argument to be at least as valuable as everyone else's. Faith is about taking things as true regardless of evidence. Reaching a conclusion because of evidence or lack thereof is the opposite of faith.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:55 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, I'm not talking about realizing your desire.

You crave what exists.

Healthy and natural desires are directed towards what already exists.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[snip] But maybe Google Translate may have used different terms when translating my sentences into English.
It seems your faith in Google translate and your desire to have it translate accurately has mislead you and what you crave to be true is in fact not true at all. Google translate does a lousy job.

So it seems what you say is in fact not true at all.
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:22 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

Believing that someone is lying is faith.



Believing that someone is telling the truth is faith.



It's all faith.

That is nonsensical garbage. “Faith” is believing something without evidence.

Crack open a dictionary before you humiliate yourself further.
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Old 12th June 2019, 06:47 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Islam commands only believing in true knowledge based on evidence.

Islam prohibits superstitions.
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.

Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.

Believing in the truth is very important because the real information is clearly based on evidence.

Otherwise, no one would be condemned in the Hereafter for his belief.

This is not a blind faith event, but the pursuit of evidence and truth.

That's why those who follow superstitions are bads.

But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.

True faith is based on reason and evidence.

Quran 17:36 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.

Quran 2:242 It is such that God clarifies to you His signs that you may reason.

Quran 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess

Quran 10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is knower of what they do.


Quran 45:24 They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

Quran 23:45 Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron. With Our signs and a clear authority.

Quran 22:71 Andthey serve besides God what He did not send any authority upon, and what they have no knowledge of. And the wicked will not have any helper.

Quran 44:19 "And, do not transgress against God. I come to you with clear authority."
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Old 12th June 2019, 07:20 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.

Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.

Believing in the truth is very important because the real information is clearly based on evidence.

Otherwise, no one would be condemned in the Hereafter for his belief.

This is not a blind faith event, but the pursuit of evidence and truth.

That's why those who follow superstitions are bads.

But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.

True faith is based on reason and evidence.

Quran 17:36 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.

Quran 2:242 It is such that God clarifies to you His signs that you may reason.

Quran 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess

Quran 10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is knower of what they do.


Quran 45:24 They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

Quran 23:45 Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron. With Our signs and a clear authority.

Quran 22:71 Andthey serve besides God what He did not send any authority upon, and what they have no knowledge of. And the wicked will not have any helper.

Quran 44:19 "And, do not transgress against God. I come to you with clear authority."
And yet you HAVE NEVER PRESENTED CREDIBLE EVIDENCE for your God. Not once. You do understand that the Quran is only evidence of the ramblings of an ignorant bronze age peasant and nothing else. If you want to prove the Quran, you need to cite something else.

There is no scientific proof of allah. If there was, you would present it. Instead you simply offer scripture. This is what is known as a circular argument.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:17 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That is nonsensical garbage. “Faith” is believing something without evidence.

Crack open a dictionary before you humiliate yourself further.
Worth repeating.

And I will continue to ask Emre this question until I get an answer: Do you believe in unicorns?
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Old 13th June 2019, 01:34 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.



Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.



Believing in the truth is very important because the real information is clearly based on evidence.



Otherwise, no one would be condemned in the Hereafter for his belief.



This is not a blind faith event, but the pursuit of evidence and truth.



That's why those who follow superstitions are bads.



But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.



True faith is based on reason and evidence.



Quran 17:36 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.



Quran 2:242 It is such that God clarifies to you His signs that you may reason.



Quran 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess



Quran 10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is knower of what they do.





Quran 45:24 They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.



Quran 23:45 Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron. With Our signs and a clear authority.



Quran 22:71 Andthey serve besides God what He did not send any authority upon, and what they have no knowledge of. And the wicked will not have any helper.



Quran 44:19 "And, do not transgress against God. I come to you with clear authority."
How do you know?

According to you everything is faith, so that's all you can possibly have.

By your own arguments your "knowledge" is only faith.

Your argument puts its foot in its mouth, and then shoots itself in the foot!
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:13 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.

Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.

Believing in the truth is very important because the real information is clearly based on evidence.

Otherwise, no one would be condemned in the Hereafter for his belief.

This is not a blind faith event, but the pursuit of evidence and truth.

That's why those who follow superstitions are bads.

But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.

True faith is based on reason and evidence.

Quran 17:36 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.

Quran 2:242 It is such that God clarifies to you His signs that you may reason.

Quran 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess

Quran 10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is knower of what they do.


Quran 45:24 They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

Quran 23:45 Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron. With Our signs and a clear authority.

Quran 22:71 Andthey serve besides God what He did not send any authority upon, and what they have no knowledge of. And the wicked will not have any helper.

Quran 44:19 "And, do not transgress against God. I come to you with clear authority."
Claims are not evidence.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:03 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.

Then stop dicking around and present your evidence.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:08 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Then stop dicking around and present your evidence.
Post well conforms to thread title.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:49 AM   #259
halleyscomet
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Demand evidence

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Post well conforms to thread title.


Thank you. However I don’t think I’ll get a response. I think OP has me blocked. It doesn’t matter as his idea of “proof” appears to consist of quoting his preferred mythology text.
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Old 13th June 2019, 05:03 AM   #260
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Speaking of proof, I don’t see any ice giants around. That’s a point in Thor’s favor.
Kanıt derken, etrafta buz devleri göremiyorum. Thor’un lehine bir nokta bu.
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Old 13th June 2019, 05:28 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Dini güçsüzlüğü, anlamsızlığı için kesilmiş.
Kanıtın varsa onu sun. Tercih ettiğiniz mitoloji metninden alıntılar kanıt değildir.
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Old 13th June 2019, 06:25 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.
It would be difficult to express a hypocrisy any more concisely. You've provided no evidence to support a belief in God. Telling us that's what God wants is silly and circular.

Quote:
Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.
Allah is superstition. You simply start with the premises that God exists and that the Qur'an is the true word of that God, and go from there. Why would you expect that to be a convincing argument?

Quote:
But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.
Yes, we've understood the argument to be from a position where you don't get to presume religion is true. That's the skeptical position. It's certainly the atheist position. You're taking the ludicrous position that a proper reluctance to agree to all those begged premises is somehow an affirmative, superstitious belief.

Quote:
True faith is based on reason and evidence.
Faith is a belief in spite of evidence. You've provided no evidence, and you display no skill at reasoning. You've simply swallowed a religion so deeply that you can't see anything beyond it.
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:24 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It would be difficult to express a hypocrisy any more concisely. You've provided no evidence to support a belief in God. Telling us that's what God wants is silly and circular.

Allah is superstition. You simply start with the premises that God exists and that the Qur'an is the true word of that God, and go from there. Why would you expect that to be a convincing argument?

Yes, we've understood the argument to be from a position where you don't get to presume religion is true. That's the skeptical position. It's certainly the atheist position. You're taking the ludicrous position that a proper reluctance to agree to all those begged premises is somehow an affirmative, superstitious belief.

Faith is a belief in spite of evidence. You've provided no evidence, and you display no skill at reasoning. You've simply swallowed a religion so deeply that you can't see anything beyond it.
In ALL fairness to Emre, the argument he post is almost EXACTLY the same as those pushing Christianity or Mormonism, etc, etc. I have NEVER seen credible evidence presented for any of these religions by their followers either. Just the repetition of unsupported claims and circular reasoning.

What is really amusing is the bizarre suggestions that I hear from Muslims saying that science proves their religion. You usually don't hear that from Christians. The Christians usually KNOW this is futile. Maybe this is a result of just how backwards the Islamic culture is. They are so indoctrinated that they are incapable of application of critical reasoning.

Here is a simple lesson for Emre and others on critical reasoning.

That B follows A does not mean that A caused B or that they are interralated in ANY WAY.
Correlation is NOT causation.
Correlation and/or causation must be proved.
A claim is not evidence.

A book of scripture is a book of claims, not a book of evidence.

Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary evidence. The more outrageous or unique a claim happens to be the more conclusive the evidence for that claim must be.

This REQUIREMENT for any evidence let alone the requirement for extraordinary evidence seems to be tripping Emre up.

Don't you think Emre that the existence of a god, let alone the existence of a god who is setting rules for life DEMANDS more than meager lines in an old book? Especially when those lines command DEATH to APOSTATES and ritual stoning?

Want to convince me an others that ALLAH is real and Mohammad was his prophet Emre? Then don't just point to the earth, life, the trees etc and say ALLAH caused it, PROVE that Allah caused it. The existence of the earth, life etc does not prove anything but their existence not their causation.

If you are making the claim, you must prove it. There is no burden, nor should there ever be a burden to prove a negative or null hypothesis of any kind. I don't believe in Santa Claus, Sasquatch, Fairies, Thor, Sauron, Ganesh or Allah. It is no more unreasonable to disbelieve that Allah than it is to disbelieve in these other proposed beings. Or do you think it's also unreasonable to disbelieve in Thor?

Skeptics do not merely accept existential claims of supernatural beings without evidence. I do not think Zeus throws lightning bolts or that Thor's hammer is the reason for thunder. And I don't believe in the god of Abraham or Yaweh, or Ganesh or Wotan. I bet you don't believe in any of these gods either. And yet there is as much evidence for any of these as there us for your god Allah.

Oh well.
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Old 17th June 2019, 05:33 AM   #264
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Old 17th June 2019, 08:13 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
It also follows?
I don't see the first equations 'following' at all.
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Old 17th June 2019, 09:13 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It also follows?
I don't see the first equations 'following' at all.
From a philosophical or religious point of view no, it does not follow. From a purely mathematical paradigm however it does. The core criticism is to highlight the error in using a mathematical notation like that in a religious context.

For example, if you assign values thus:

Life = 12
God = 7
Truth = 5

The three equations become:
5 + 7 = 12
5 = 12 - 7
7 = 12 - 5

The math works even though the philosophy doesn't, which is why the initial equation, Truth + God = Life is a flawed premise to begin with.
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Old 17th June 2019, 09:32 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Rambling description of the "Law of Attraction" trimmed for brevity.
If God is real, then explain THIS:
https://i.imgur.com/aQ1tigz.gifv

Where is your god now Emre_1974tr? WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW???????
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Old 17th June 2019, 01:08 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
The math works even though the philosophy doesn't, which is why the initial equation, Truth + God = Life is a flawed premise to begin with.

Thanks for the explanation!
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th June 2019, 03:02 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Thanks for the explanation!

My pleasure.
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Old 18th June 2019, 07:34 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
God wants us to faith in true knowledge based solely on evidence.

Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.

Believing in the truth is very important because the real information is clearly based on evidence.

Otherwise, no one would be condemned in the Hereafter for his belief.

This is not a blind faith event, but the pursuit of evidence and truth.

That's why those who follow superstitions are bads.

But because you are distancing from true religion, you have understood these terms from the opposite.

True faith is based on reason and evidence.

Quran 17:36 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.

Quran 2:242 It is such that God clarifies to you His signs that you may reason.

Quran 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess

Quran 10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is knower of what they do.


Quran 45:24 They said, "There is nothing but this worldly life; we die and we live and nothing destroys us except the passing of time!" They have no knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

Quran 23:45 Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron. With Our signs and a clear authority.

Quran 22:71 Andthey serve besides God what He did not send any authority upon, and what they have no knowledge of. And the wicked will not have any helper.

Quran 44:19 "And, do not transgress against God. I come to you with clear authority."
Whatever helps you sleep peacefully at night, bro.
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Old 18th June 2019, 07:45 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Allah forbids superstitions, and suspicions.
In which case, Allah must be angry with you for lying and accusing agnostics of being secret Christian Missionaries.

Does the Koran have a passage similar to the "Thou shalt not bear false witness" in the Torah? If it does you should look into obeying it once in a while.

Bu durumda, Allah'ın gizli Hıristiyan Misyonerler olduğu için yalan söyleyip suçladığınız için öfkeli olmalısınız.

Kur'an'ın Tevrat'ta "Sahte tanıklık edemezsiniz" e benzer bir geçidi var mı? Eğer öyleyse, arada bir buna uymaya dikkat etmelisin.
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