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Old 7th June 2019, 02:49 PM   #1
Checkmite
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NJ minister used oral sex to "suck the evil out of" male parishioners

This story comes to us from Linden, New Jersey where several Presbytarian congregation members complained to their church's oversight body, the Elizabeth Presbytery, that their minister had begun coercing them into sex acts as part of "exorcism rituals" which had grown increasingly unorthodox over time. I've made the thread here because criminal or civil charges haven't been filed against the minister yet.

Quote:
A Presbyterian minister, who said he was following the Bible, used Native American exorcism rituals, gemstones and even oral sex to extract "evil spirits" from men undergoing crises in their lives, the church and men claim.

The so-called healing acts, which date to 1999, were allegedly performed by the Rev. Dr. William Weaver, a prominent Presbyterian minister who served as pastor at Linden Presbyterian Church for 39 years, one of two Presbyterian churches in Linden, a city with a population of over 40,000. He also held several public roles, including chaplain for a county police department.

Weaver, 69, was scheduled to face his three accusers during an internal church trial, but on Jan. 25, 2019, one day before the trial was to begin, he renounced the jurisdiction of the Elizabeth Presbytery. He was accused by the church of “multiple acts of idolatry and sexual misconduct.”

The church charges have no bearing on the secular government's civil and criminal courts. No public charges have been filed against Weaver. The men said they did report the sexual encounters to authorities, but the Union County Prosecutor's Office said they could not confirm nor deny information regarding this matter.

With his renouncement, Weaver gave up his ordination and membership in the Presbyterian Church but also avoided a religious trial. He then moved to a gated retirement community in Lakewood.

(snip)

Every meeting with Weaver began the same way, Meeker said. The minister told him to undress completely and lie on the bed. Then he placed an angel coin — a coin with an angel or saint printed on it used for praying — on Meeker’s forehead and wrapped a magnetic strip around his head to keep it in place.

Weaver then would place a series of stones on both of Meeker’s feet his hands and on the left side and right side of his chest.

“I was told that for him to get everything out me, I needed to lay completely still to not move the stones on my feet,” Meeker said in the impact statement. “He would then take out the feather and scan my body from my neck to my stomach.”

Weaver then opened Meeker’s mouth, placed his own mouth on top of Meeker’s mouth, and moved his tongue around “to see if I had anything in my mouth or throat,” Meeker wrote.

Then the interaction became sexual, with Weaver engaging in oral sex, according to Meeker.

He said he began to ask Weaver about the necessity of the ritual and asked the minister if he was using the same techniques on women. Weaver, according to Meeker’s statement, said “everything would come out of a woman’s navel and every 30 days their cycle would clear them out.”

Weaver said the evil energy manifested itself into what he called “hits.”

He also told Meeker that if the “hits” were left inside of him, they would cause infertility and erectile dysfunction.

After every session, Meeker wrote, “he would then hold me and say he loved me and he would protect me, and he would never let anything bad happen to me.”

Weaver also told him he could never mention what happened because “nobody would understand.”
The "hits" referenced were small bits of metal or plastic garbage that Weaver would produce from his mouth after the oral sex, claiming them to be impurities removed thereby from whomever the "ritual" was being performed on.

A lawyer (who does not represent any of the men who complained about Weaver) said that he believes there is enough to justify criminal charges if the men decided to go that route.
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:53 PM   #2
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People use religion to take advantage of other people, it's terrible in all its forms.
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Old 7th June 2019, 03:33 PM   #3
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There just seems to be no limit to the crap that some will espouse, in order to get others to comply with their wishes, to indulge in their perverse acts. More surprising are the number of those, so easily led.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:39 PM   #4
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Presbyterians? They are supposed to be some of the sensible ones. I can't imagine Presbyterians going all in for exorcisms, much less exorcisms that involved getting naked and oral sex.

I can't believe in this day and age that the....victims?......would fall for it, and not see it for what it was.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Presbyterians? They are supposed to be some of the sensible ones. I can't imagine Presbyterians going all in for exorcisms, much less exorcisms that involved getting naked and oral sex.
I think you're right, but in fairness, this man's "exorcisms" apparently used crystals, psychic-surgery techniques, faux "Native American" ritual, and other (relatively) unusual paraphernalia that suggests to me he had significantly strayed from actual Presbyterian practice.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I can't believe in this day and age that the....victims?......would fall for it, and not see it for what it was.
If you ask me one of the worst parts about organized religions, even those organized religions that don't necessarily preach intolerance, is this - the fact that it leads people to give the benefit of the doubt to "fellow travelers", and especially the religion's authority figures, to an extent far beyond reasonable. All of the men interviewed for the article at least, explained that they were distressed from the moment things got sexual, but were basically paralyzed by cognitive dissonance. It's almost striking how much their descriptions of their own thoughts are similar to those of a child victim of sexual abuse, and yet these were adults.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Presbyterians? They are supposed to be some of the sensible ones. I can't imagine Presbyterians going all in for exorcisms, much less exorcisms that involved getting naked and oral sex.

I can't believe in this day and age that the....victims?......would fall for it, and not see it for what it was.
Exactly my thought. Presbyterians* are about the most boring of all faiths.

*I've been one. And an atheist at the same time, because it was and is easier to just stay in the closet. Although, now that I think of it, there was the little incident of the pastor and his friend swapping wives....
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:59 PM   #7
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Meh! Religion!

It sucks the life out of you!!
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Old 7th June 2019, 06:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The "hits" referenced were small bits of metal or plastic garbage that Weaver would produce from his mouth after the oral sex, claiming them to be impurities removed thereby from whomever the "ritual" was being performed on.

...thus protecting his precious bodily fluids.


Norm
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Old 7th June 2019, 08:31 PM   #9
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These are grown men? Meh.. I wonder what specific criminal charges would be pertinent. Anyone have an idea?
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
These are grown men? Meh.. I wonder what specific criminal charges would be pertinent. Anyone have an idea?
He brainwashed them first. That's abuse.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
These are grown men? Meh.. I wonder what specific criminal charges would be pertinent. Anyone have an idea?
Well the grown men who fell for this rubbish should be charged with First Degree Criminal Stupidity!
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
He brainwashed them first. That's abuse.
What specific law covers that? Are priests performing religious 'counseling' covered by the same laws as mental health professionals?

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well the grown men who fell for this rubbish should be charged with First Degree Criminal Stupidity!
I know we are at a point where blaming the victim is beyond the pale. Is every deception though, no matter how transparent, an illegal act? Can we prosecute the assailant if the act is illegal, while placing some blame on the victim when it is warranted?
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Old 7th June 2019, 10:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
What specific law covers that? [snip]
Rape.


I guess this preacher just really liked St Peter.
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Old 8th June 2019, 12:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well the grown men who fell for this rubbish should be charged with First Degree Criminal Stupidity!
Transubstantiation, blowjob exorcisms...

Meh
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Old 8th June 2019, 12:31 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
I know we are at a point where blaming the victim is beyond the pale. Is every deception though, no matter how transparent, an illegal act? Can we prosecute the assailant if the act is illegal, while placing some blame on the victim when it is warranted?
Well, we are not talking about random victims here, or strangers or children. These were grown men who allowed someone they knew, to perform an act of oral sex on them as part of an alleged exorcism. How stupid to you have to be to believe that this was even a thing?
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Old 8th June 2019, 12:47 AM   #16
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The point is that they weren't strangers. We don't know how old they were at the time, but there is no reason to think that grown ups can't be groomed by authority figures much the same way that children are by pedophiles. It appears to have been a fairly elaborate hoax, and members of this forum probably wouldn't have fallen for it, but these victims had already decided to believe in a god, his representatives on Earth and probably even in exorcism, which made it so much easier for the perpetrator.

ETA: The link in the OP doesn't work for me, maybe because I'm in Europe. These links do:
https://www.richarddawkins.net/2019/...ual-men-claim/
https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/prom...port-says.html
https://newsbreakinglive.com/2019/06...rcism-rituals/
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 8th June 2019, 03:43 AM   #17
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It turns out those fellows with the demons should have chosen their words more carefully. They walked into the church and demanded to see the head exorcist...
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Old 8th June 2019, 07:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
What specific law covers that? Are priests performing religious 'counseling' covered by the same laws as mental health professionals?
No. They aren't.

The exact laws that they are covered under varies from state to state, but unless they advertise themselves as counselors or accept a fee for counseling, they probably aren't covered by any laws at all. If what you are doing is religious, it's pretty much off limits from state intervention.

The only angle I can see in this where there might be some lawbreaking has to do with the "hits". He fraudulently produced physical artifacts, claiming they had been extracted from the target's body. I suspect that, somewhere in there, there is a criminal statute covering that sort of fraudulent pretext. I really don't know, though. Most statutes deal with financial fraud. Is "fraud for sex" a thing?

There's no way to criminalize "lying to get someone to have sex with you". If so, there would be an awful lot of people in jail after they said, "I'll never leave you.", or "Of course I love you." However, this seems a bit more insidious, and there might be something in there. I think there are statutes that cover false medical diagnoses as a means of obtaining sexual favors. I suspect it's a crime to tell someone, "I can cure your cancer if you have sex with me." Can you do the same with expelling demons? By falsely producing "evidence" of demonic possession, does it cross a threshold that "I think God wants us to be together" would not?

I'm not even sure that the cancer example is a crime if you are not a medical professional of some sort.

Perhaps civil liability would be more realistic. The victims could certainly claim psychological harm.

However, as the acronym goes, IANAL.
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Old 8th June 2019, 08:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, we are not talking about random victims here, or strangers or children. These were grown men who allowed someone they knew, to perform an act of oral sex on them as part of an alleged exorcism. How stupid to you have to be to believe that this was even a thing?
My only question would be, do you think you'd have the same reaction if the parishioners in question were women and the priest had been manipulating them into letting him suck demons out of their vaginas? If so, then I can't quibble with your consistency (though I do not agree with your viewpoint).

If not, however, that be sexist.
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:05 AM   #20
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Oh come all ye faithful...
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:22 AM   #21
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Man, that original write-up sounds like soft-core gay erotica
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There's no way to criminalize "lying to get someone to have sex with you".
Maybe not; however, sexual assault is still sexual assault. The victims make it very clear they were not fully willing participants and were simply shocked and confused into inaction. To a degree that I would be fine with the activity being declared non-consensual for the purposes of sexual assault laws.
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Old 8th June 2019, 02:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This story comes to us from Linden, New Jersey where several Presbytarian congregation members complained to their church's oversight body, the Elizabeth Presbytery, that their minister had begun coercing them into sex acts as part of "exorcism rituals" which had grown increasingly unorthodox over time. I've made the thread here because criminal or civil charges haven't been filed against the minister yet.



The "hits" referenced were small bits of metal or plastic garbage that Weaver would produce from his mouth after the oral sex, claiming them to be impurities removed thereby from whomever the "ritual" was being performed on.

A lawyer (who does not represent any of the men who complained about Weaver) said that he believes there is enough to justify criminal charges if the men decided to go that route.
As to the title of the thread, maybe a trumpf adviser could suggest trumpf try that. Just put him under the table at every meeting/discussion so he can work the crowd!!!
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Old 8th June 2019, 03:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
These are grown men? Meh.. I wonder what specific criminal charges would be pertinent. Anyone have an idea?

An interesting point which also makes me revisit my comment above about perversity.

I don't think it perverse for men to engage in sexual activity with each other providing it is with consent. If some kind of mind control is used, whether by drugs or other methods, then the term perverse is applicable. It also crosses the line of conscientious consent so is a crime.
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Old 8th June 2019, 04:29 PM   #25
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Meanwhile in Los Angeles:

Leader of La Luz Del Mundo religious group arrested on suspicion of rape, child porn

Quote:
A top leader of the La Luz Del Mundo religious organization was arrested on suspicion of human trafficking, production of child pornography, forcible rape of a minor and other felonies, California prosecutors said Tuesday.
Naasón Joaquín García and co-defendants Alondra Ocampo, Azalea Rangel Melendez and Susana Medina Oaxaca — all of whom are affiliated with La Luz Del Mundo — are alleged to have committed 26 felonies in Los Angeles County between 2015 and 2018.
The organization, which is headquartered in Mexico and claims more than 1 million followers worldwide, has two churches in East and West L.A.
I love this excuse though:
Quote:
In August 2017, according to the complaint, Ocampo told a group of girls in Los Angeles County that if they went against the desires or wishes of “the Apostle,” a term used to refer to García, that they were going against God.
A month later, in September, Ocampo directed minors to perform “flirty” dances for García “wearing as little clothing as possible,” the complaint reads. After that dance, García purportedly gave a speech to the children about a king having a mistress and stated that an apostle of God can never be judged for his actions.
Four minor girls mentioned in the complaint were sexually assaulted by García in L.A. County, prosecutors said.
I guess according to this religion, the "the apostle of God" is exempt from the rules that apply to everyone else.
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Old 8th June 2019, 05:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
My only question would be, do you think you'd have the same reaction if the parishioners in question were women and the priest had been manipulating them into letting him suck demons out of their vaginas? If so, then I can't quibble with your consistency (though I do not agree with your viewpoint).
Same. You can replace "men" with "adults" in what I wrote, I would still stand by it. Further. I would stand by it even if the parishoners were men, and the minister was a woman. A person would have to be stupid to be conned into this, and believing that such a "procedure" was part of an exorcism.

However, I am prepared to admit that a religious person, one who has already been conned into absolute belief in a magical sky daddy, is probably more at risk of being conned into something like this... but then I regard beilef in magic sky daddy to be bordering on stupidity anyway.
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Old 8th June 2019, 07:58 PM   #27
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Yeah, I mean, these were obviously people who were a little too deep into their religious stuff, to the point of extreme naivete at best.

I personally hesitate to call them stupid because I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to think the fate of my eternal soul was in danger or whatever - maybe I could be manipulated to do crazy, stupid-sounding ****. I don't know. It's really hard for me to imagine something like that. It seems so abstract.
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Old 8th June 2019, 10:41 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Meanwhile in Los Angeles:

Leader of La Luz Del Mundo religious group arrested on suspicion of rape, child porn



I love this excuse though:


I guess according to this religion, the "the apostle of God" is exempt from the rules that apply to everyone else.
It always struck me as interesting that when God chooses a new prophet/apostle/special friend, it always seems that one of God's first commandments seems to be, "Thou shalt have sex with multiple teenage girls." I was thinking about Joseph Smith, or David Koresh, or any number of lesser known "prophets" like the one you mentioned.
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:12 PM   #29
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:25 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
My only question would be, do you think you'd have the same reaction if the parishioners in question were women and the priest had been manipulating them into letting him suck demons out of their vaginas? If so, then I can't quibble with your consistency (though I do not agree with your viewpoint).

If not, however, that be sexist.
That did happen. One of the female parishioners went to her doctor and told him she had been infected with demons and that they started leaving their Satanic mark on her with green blotches on the inside of her thighs. The doctor asked her if she was also being treated by Minister Weaver. She said that she was.

"Well you tell Minister Weaver those earrings of his aren't real gold."
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:09 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
That did happen. One of the female parishioners went to her doctor and told him she had been infected with demons and that they started leaving their Satanic mark on her with green blotches on the inside of her thighs. The doctor asked her if she was also being treated by Minister Weaver. She said that she was.

"Well you tell Minister Weaver those earrings of his aren't real gold."
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
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Old 10th June 2019, 02:54 PM   #33
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
...thus protecting his precious bodily fluids.


Norm
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I do not avoid Ministers, ...but I do deny them my essence.

Sounds like General Jack D Ripper may be influencing some here.
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