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#41 |
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No, language is a major part of ethnicity.
Besides that, as 52ka the inhabitants didn't speak Finnish they wouldn't have called the place Finland, nor would any foreigners have done so, so it's nonsense to say how Finland looked 52ka. And besides that, 52ka there was no notion of states. |
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#42 |
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You didn't mention that. Even then it's a fail.
Valletta (Malta) and Nicosia (Cyprus). Bucharest (Romania) and Sofia (Bulgaria). Both countries switched sides and declared war on Nazi Germany a week before the Red Army entered their capital. When it's allied forces it's not an occupation. Zagreb (Croatia). German troops entered Zagreb the same day the NDH was proclaimed, and in 1945, the city was liberated by Yugoslav partisans. |
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#43 |
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It's Jäger, or Jaeger if you can't find the umlaut on your keyboard. A very odd spelling mistake for someone who claims to know German.
We've gone over this before and (a) the Mannerheim line was not the pre-1939 border but a defensive line within pre-1939 Finland, and (b) the Finnish army did cross the old border and conducted navy operations on Lake Ladoga together with the German navy. I wonder how that went in Operation Arctic Fox, where a joint German-Finnish army tried to invade the Soviet Union and cut off the Murmansk railroad. ![]() [ citation required ] Maybe you could edit this wiki article with your profound knowledge of Nazi escape routes? Sweden isn't even mentioned once there. Vixen has been whitewashing Finnish history before. |
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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#44 |
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The following three Finnish service personnel, who were recommended for German decorations for their activities in joint operations, are noteworthy
... offered the Iron Cross for their wartime service: Leo Skurnik, Salomon Klass, and Dina Poljakoff. Major Leo Skurnik, a district medical officer in the Finnish Army, organized an evacuation of a German field hospital when it came under Soviet shelling. More than 600 patients, including SS soldiers, were evacuated. Captain Salomon Klass, also of the Finnish Army, who had lost an eye in the Winter War, led a Finnish unit that rescued a German company that had been surrounded by the Soviets. Dina Poljakoff, a member of Lotta Svärd, the Finnish women's auxiliary service, was a nursing assistant who helped tend to German wounded, and came to be greatly admired by her patients.They are noteworthy because they were Jews. None of them accepted the German medals. |
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#45 |
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I have that book, and used it for my own research. Yes, there was an Einsatzkommando unit set up in Salla, and of course, there were fascists, although not to the extent of a 'Quisling government' as we saw in Norway. These fascists managed to send nine Finnish Jews to European concentration camps and that is a blot on Finland's history. However, Sweden's record is poor. Although at the beginning of WW2 it took in boatloads of Jewish refuges desperate to escape, it soon turned many boats away (as did Finland). Yes, Finland were 'Brothers in Arms' as it were (as per the title of the book you reference) in that they approached the Russian border together with the Germans. However, the Germans were part of the Operation Barbarossa and the Finns wanted back their Karelian borders. The Finnish army was quite separate ('the Karelian army') apart from one division (VI) which was under joint German command. Bear in mind, Finland was never an Axis member, it was not fascist in its aims, as Germany was. The attack on Russia by Hitler on three fronts, the north (Leningrad) the Don and Stalingrad (the South) was drawn up in top secrecy and carried out at lightning speed, before the Russians had a chance to react effectively. Yes, some of the Finnish generals had been friends pre-War with the German generals. Pre-1939 no-one knew about the plans for a Holocaust or Hitler's crazy plan to exterminate the Slavs (the Russians and East Europeans) in order to gain lebensraum, so hindsight is a fine thing. At the time, it was a bunch of old patriots dreaming about the old Prussia and the romantic notion of a 'Germania' (extended Germany) after a poem of the same name eulogising Frederick the Great. There was galloping inflation in Germany, economic unrest in Russia, the fallout from the Bolshevik uprising, as Stalin purged his former comrades, etc, etc. It was because of the surprise arrival of German troops at Turku to make their way across Finland to get to Leningrad, that caused Churchill to declare war on Finland (there was no military action, however). To claim Finland was part of the Axis or quasi-Quisling as was Norway, is to display ignorance of the facts. |
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#46 |
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The portrayal of Sweden as the 'great heroes' is very annoying as the Swedes did little to help their neighbours against Russia, it was a haven for war criminals (I have the newspaper clippings, including Swedish newspapers) it turned away many many refuges. So, like Ireland and the USA (who only joined WW2 at the last minute) countries like Finland, Great Britain, France, the Norwegian resistance movement, et al, were pretty much on their own. Being neutral is like being a fake 'conscientious objector': you get to reap the benefits that other people have had to sacrifice their lives for. |
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#47 |
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#48 |
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As mentioned, there was one division that was a joint German one, the sixth division as yes, there were some Finnish Generals ( a minority) who were in with the fascists. However, the Finnish Army proper was completely separate and independent from the Germans and had wholly different aims. The Finns, for example, had plenty of Jewish soldiers who were free to practice their religious beliefs. From your source (wiki):
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To extrapolate from this, as you have done, that the entire Finnish Army were joint Nazis with the Germans, is to show woeful ignorance of historical facts. |
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#49 |
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Being a co-belligerent with the aggressor in the biggest war ever fought, is surely worse than neutrality - by far worse. "Reap the benefits" is what the Nazis were able to do on account of Finnish participation in the war, as some Soviet resources were diverted away from the Germans to the Finnish front, which also covered part of the blockade round Leningrad.
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#50 |
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There are two sides to any war. From the Russian POV, Germany were their age old foes.
As the Allied Forces in partnership with the Russians won the war, we have had to tolerate the spectacle of the Russians laying it on thickly about how badly treated they were. In Finland, any celebration of Finnish war victories (for example one of the biggest battles in history at Tali-Ihantala has to be done discreetly, so as not to upset them. Someone planned a celebration of the Continuation War heroes at a cemetery in the SW region and the local authorities banned it. So, we get to hear poor poor Russia's side and it swamps wikipedia, yet Stalin murdered twice as many of its own citizens as Germany. Of course, comparisons are odious and two wrongs don't make a right, or any other homily you can dream up, but you know what I am sayin'? So, 'neutral' countries like Sweden and Ireland can smugly sit on the fence and brag about their 'neutrality', yet they harboured Nazi war criminals and helped them escape (Sweden) and Lord Haw-Haw taunted the Brits (Ireland). Gimme a break. |
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#51 |
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#52 |
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#53 |
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A battalion has, depending on the army, a size of 300-800 men.
A division has size 10,000-15,000 men. You just conceded that one division of the Finnish Army was under German command, and then you go on to claim that the Finnish Army was completely separate from the German army? That is some bad lying. It's clear you're whitewashing Finnish WW2 history. Moreover, there's the Finnish Naval Detachment K:
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There's also the Finnish occupation of East Karelia, which had never been Finnish. How did those soldiers in the 6th division do that, not salute their German peers or superiors? ![]() Those are your strawmen. There were only two Axis powers: Germany and Italy. The rest were their allies. And that's also a strawman. Your claims that the Finnish Army was completely separate from the German one, and that Finland only pursued the aim of retaking the lost territories and never crossed the pre-1939 border simply don't stand up to scrutiny. Finland was as much an Axis ally as Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Slovakia. And to its credit, like Hungary under Horthy, it refused to send its Jewish citizens to Auschwitz. |
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#54 | |||
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Anyway, congrats Finland. I bet you had a good reason for joining forces with the Nazis.
Now, here's a video from Finland's best YouTube channel to cheer everyone up:
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#55 |
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#56 |
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Huh? Can you expand on this "age old" Russian-German emnity? I don't get further than WW1.
[ citation required ] [ citation required ] No he didn't. Actually, Stalin murdered many, many more of his own citizens. Hitler murdered a few thousand disabled in Aktion T4, around 150,000 German Jews (including Austrian ones), and then a couple of other categories I don't care to look up, but it's still in the hundreds of thousands. For Stalin we have the Holomodor - serious estimates vary between 1 and 5 million - and the Gulag, where estimates of death vary between 1 and 2 million. And then there's the purges and the show trials. But that still doesn't surpass the extent of the Holocaust-in-wider-sense, i.e., including gays, Roma&Sinti, Slavs and other "Untermenschen". That was about 11 million. And that's the difference between Hitler and Stalin: Hitler went on a conquering spree to occupy all of Europe and drag people from all those conquered countries to his extermination camps. You mean, like in the other thread where you insisted ad nauseam that the Holocaust was all legal and dandy? It's almost as if you want to say that poor Hitler should have been able to finish his job. |
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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#57 |
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I really don't think that independent neutral Ireland can be made responsible for lord Haw Haw. On the contrary, per wiki:
It was during the Irish War for Independence, that Joyce had his first taste in politics, he was recruited by Capt. Patrick William Keating as a courier for British Army intelligence in Galway, who were then fighting against the Irish Republican Army. He was known to have hung around with Black and Tans at Lenaboy Castle, which reportedly resulted in the Irish Republican Army dispatching a volunteer, Michael Molloy, to murder Joyce on his way home from school in December 1921, although minors were normally excluded from being executed by the IRA ...Joyce was conceived in the womb of British imperialism, and nourished in its bosom. But that ideology wasn't extreme enough to satisfy the tastes he had acquired in the company of the Black and Tans, so he transferred his allegiance to the Nazis, and paid the penalty at the end of a rope. |
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#58 |
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#59 |
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#60 |
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#61 |
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There have been many Stone Age artefacts found (flints, etc) in excavations.
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Then, genealogically, there is the Kostenski find in Russia (37K) and also Ust-Isham man (not on diagram) from West Siberia aged >45K. Don't forget the Neanderthals, of up to 52K years ago. |
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#62 |
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You are wrong. It is important to try to be as accurate as possible, as hyberbole doesn't override fact.
My notes in relation to an article from: 16.7.1943 TIMES (I researched this first hand): HITLER’S PRETORIAN GUARD¹ ENLISTMENT OF FOREIGNERS IN THE WAFFEN-SS A FIGHTING POLICE FORCE SS stands for Schutz-Staffel – Himmler’s uniformed security police. SS Standarte Nordland – Scandinavian arm was founded on Hitler’s birthday² within a fortnight of the invasion of Denmark and Norway. SS Standarte Nordland merged with SS Westland (Holland and Belgium) to form SS Division Viking and appeared on the Eastern Front in early 1942. After a spell, a percentage of the Viking Division was drafted into the armed SS (=Waffen SS). Waffen SS was Hitler’s own personal bodyguard: the Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler. It was reorganized in 1940 as a corps of fighting police. It paraded in all of its formidable panoply as and independent command outside the Zeughaus on Heroes Day (March 20th). 1942. A circular issuing ‘secret instructions’ explaining the meaning of the corps of drawn up in 1940 by Keitel ³ to senior officers of Reichwehr : - • Waffen SS was to be capable on any and every decision representing the internal authority of the Reich • Prime function is to repress civilian disturbances • An elite State Police of “best German blood” who “will never fraternalize with the proletariat” • It was to be very disciplined • Very tough • Fully equipped with every arm • An independent army • With its own aircraft. __________________________________________________ _________________________ ¹From the Latin “praetor” = commander. “Commander’s Army” ²b. 20.4.1889 d. 30.4.1945. The invasion of Norway was complete by 10th June1940 ³Wilhelm Bodewin Johann Gustav Keitel (22 September 1882–16 October 1946) was a German field marshal (Generalfeldmarschall). As head of the High Command of the Armed Forces, he was one of Germany's most senior military leaders during World War II. At the allied court at Nuremberg he was tried, sentenced to death and hanged as a major war criminal. (Wikipedia). Reichwehr - The military force numbering 500,000 men, organized in Germany in 1919. It was reduced to 100,000 by 1921 under the terms of the Versailles Treaty “Reichwehr” literally refers to the armed forces of the Reich, including both the Army and Navy of the Weimar Republic. (Wikipedia) SS Divisions - (Schutzstaffel); "Black Shirts.” An organization created and commanded by Hitler himself, first as bodyguards and later in control of organizing and running the concentration camps The total strength of Waffen SS is estimated to be circa 250,000, of which 50,000 are so-called Völkdeutsche . The training school of Standarte for Nordic volunteers is at Sennheim in the Vosges ¹. SWEDISH RECRUITS Bad Tölz is a junker school for officers and NCO’s for the Waffen SS. According to a Swedish press report Nazi agents are regularly recruiting Swedish soldiers and smuggling them out of the country. Schooled politically as apostles of Großgermanien (Great Germany) to serve as N.S. propagandists and even as a Fifth Columnist. ¹In Sennheim in Alsace, a camp created in the SS volunteers from all European countries in addition to the hard sports and military training in the spirit of the Waffen SS of Nazi ideology, and made for the tasks in a new Europe after the War , have been trained. In addition, the SS-Junker school in Bad Tolz a European officer corps herangebildet, which in every respect a selection represented. (‘Forum Stirpes Net’) Notandum During the spring 1941, two new Standarten (Regiments) arrived: the 6th and 7th. After a short time, the 6th SS, with large elements from the 9th SS, moved into positions at Salla in Northern-Finland. General von Falkenhorst did, however, not trust their fighting ability very much, because even If the formations were well equipped, the men were poorly trained. The two latter regiments crossed the Finnish/Norwegian border, and were ready at Salla the 22nd June, 1941. As the attack on Soviet came, the divisions, now usually called "Brigades", were thrown into the battle at Markajärvi-Salla. They suffered great losses, and were an expected disappointment to the German commanders: Falkenhorst and Buschenhagen. The SS forces lost 700 men the first two days in combat with strong Russian forces (300 KIA and 400 WIA). The Brigade got a new unit attached, SS-Gebirgsartillerie-Regiment 6, and was now redesigned as a Division. During the autumn 1941, the Division was handed over to the battle-hardened Finnish General Hjalmar Siilasvuo (this was the only time that an SS Division was commanded by a foreign officer), and took positions at Louchi/Kiestinki. Gen. Siilasvuo was no bad choice for an Army Corps commander: he had served in the Finnish famous volunteer "Jägerbatallion 27" during WW 1, on the German side. (Source: Axis History) One regiment does not an army make. |
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#63 |
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And I thought the Balkans were a tangle!
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#64 |
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#65 |
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Please do not ascribe base motives to me or put words in my mouth. You keep claiming that Hitler's victims were mostly outside of Germany. You are the apologists.
As for T4, which you mention, above; from my notes, again: [Conti]: Not a Doctor you would want a visit from! Euthanasia program: In September 1939, the killing operation was expanded to include adults. Hitler first appointed Leonardo Conti, state secretary for health in the Reich Ministry of Interior, to direct adult euthanasia, telling him in the presence of Hans Heinrich Lammers and Martin Bormann "that he considered it appropriate that life unfit for living of severely insane patients should be ended by intervention that would result in death." Conti accepted the assignment, but he did not remain in charge long; within a few weeks, Hitler replaced him, turning once again to Brandt and Bouhler as his plenipotentiaries, so that Brack and the KdF could administer adult euthanasia alongside that for children. To avoid implicating the Chancellery, the staff administering the euthanasia killings moved from the KdF into a confiscated Jewish villa at Tiergarten Street number 4 and euthanasia was thus soon known as Operation T4, or simply as T4. The method used to kill the children could not be used to kill the far larger number of adults. To accomplish its task, T4 therefore constructed killing centers, including gas chambers and crematoria, and developed a killing technique to select, transport, and "process" the victims. And always the killers robbed the corpses of their victims, taking gold teeth and bridge work to enrich the state as well as internal organs to enrich "scientific research." For this purpose, T4 established six killing centers – Brandenburg, Grafeneck, Hartheim, Sonnenstein, Bernburg, and Hadamar – but only four were ever operational at the same time. To hide the killings, T4 used subterfuge to fool the relatives; the killing centers camouflaged as hospitals wrote letters of condolence and issued fraudulent death certificates. {Source now unknown} |
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#66 |
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You must have realized by now that "I researched this" from your hand is taken by most posters as a negative endorsement of its truth value?
I don't care if that article was actually published as you copied it here or not. The subject of that article - Finnish volunteers in the Waffen-SS - was not the point. The point I made was that the Finnish 6th division (not a battalion, not a regiment, not an army but a division) was incorporated into the structure of the German Army during Operation Arctic Fox. The point I made was that there was a joint Finnish-German-Italian flotilla operating on Lake Ladoga. |
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#67 |
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#68 |
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#69 |
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#70 |
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Nor tomorrow, nor the day after, etc., because you simply don't have the evidence.
So, as evidence that Sweden harboured many (German) Nazi war criminals, we get a report of one Finnish police officer who collaborated with the Gestapo who was caught. I colour-coded the contradictions in this response for your convenience. And you've got to wonder how a Finnish police officer managed to collaborate with the Gestapo, because, by Jove, Finland was not an ally of Nazi Germany. (and I hope someone can provide a better translation, this one sucks). |
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#72 |
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This reminds me of the poster/s who insist that Finland is 'East Euopean' and was once under the heel of Stalin. It is so frustrating to keep correcting people.
The so-called Division VI joint German-Finnish/other regiment was commanded by the Germans. Mannerheim's Finnish army was separate and NOT. an AXIS arny (The Axis comprised Italy, Germany and Japan). The Finnish Brothers-In-Arms Society State Visit to Germany 08-11-1942 A few introductory notes: Germany started its Judenrein (‘Jew- Free’) extermination program in January 1941, initially with small mobile Einsatzkommando units, and by June 1941, there were mass killings, the first in Poland and then in Soviet Russia. By October 1942, the TIMES was reporting ‘the extermination of over 1.2m Jews’ with another news story in the TIMES in 1942 reporting a community of 30,000 Jews killed, including 12,000 children. Reports (ibid) at the same time show repeated announcements by the Archbishop of Canterbury and Jewish elders from around the world about the plight that European Jews found themselves in. Thus, it was of common international knowledge, by the time of the HELSINGIN SANOMAT (8.11.1942) report, follows, as the Germans hardy bothered keeping the exterminations secret. In addition, it is mentioned that the Finnish representative, Paavo Talvela, who received the Mannerheim Cross in 1941, went on the trip to Germany, in November 1942, at the invitation of one of the Third Reich’s leading commanders, General Josef Reinhardt, yet according to WIKIPEDIA (internet) it is claimed he was made “Finnish representative at the German High Command” from 1944, after the war, of the Group Olonets (Anuksen Ryhmä). This article shows quite clearly a high-level relationship between Finnish diplomats and the German SS at the height of the German assaults on Europe and its Jews, and internationally acknowledged well before 1944 and actually, Hannu Rautkallio in his book Finland and the Holocaust. researches evidence of Talvela’s state visit to SS leader Himmler during July 1942 as well as the story here relating to 6.11.1942. Based on an article in HELSINGIN SANOMAT 8.11.1942 and widely reported in the press of the day:
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1 General Josef Reinhardt, Imperial Warrior Leader, he re-inaugaurated the Kiffhäuser Monument in 1933 with Hitler, 500 flags and Nazi German Reich Warriors(Note: not to be confused with Reinhard Himmler who gave his name to the Aktion Reinhard death camp program) 2 Baron Georg Albrecht von Rechenberg , (1861 – 1944) Deutsch OstAfrika’s Governor 1906- 1912 (Note: he was embroiled in a homosexual scandal in German East Africa with male servants.) 3Paavo Talvela (1897 – 1973) Mannerheim Cross, 1941. From 1944 was made Finnish representative a the German High Command of the Group Olonets (Anuksen Ryhmiä). But appears to have been an SS favourite before that. 4 Veikko Loppi (1.2.1907 – 27.3.2005). Aseveliliitto founder 1940. 240,000 members. Claimed to carry out humanitarian work for orphans and injured veteran soldiers. From Helsingin Suomalainen Klubi, “In peacetime, the custodians of the allies demanded that Finland cease all “fascist-tendency” activities. Mannerheim and Pääsikivi opposed this unnoticed on the grounds that the Brothers-in-Arms Society was at the periphery of the movement. 5 East Prussia was est. 1871. It became Germany as part of the Weimar Republic. The northern part is now part of Lithuania and the southern part, Poland. 6Königsberg was the capital of East Prussia, now called Kaliningrad (1946). Famous for the four-day Battle of Königsberg. 7 Tannenberg was the scene of the Battle of Grunwald, as it was then known. 8 Zeughaus is the oldest structure in Berlin on the Unter den Linden. It was a Military Museum from 1875 (Wikipedia) 9 Named after the Kyffhäuser mountain range on the border of Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt. The mythological Emperor Frederick von Hohenstaufen, known popularly as Barbarossa (“the Red-Bearded”) is said to be buried here. Operation Barbarossa was Hitler’s Code Name for the Artic War Excursions, 1941. Die Kiffhäuser Kaisersage Thurm ruins, the blacksmith The Blacksmith from Jutebok by Ludwig Bechstein 1847 is a well-known German fairytale, in which the Emperor Frederick is in the Cave of Kiffhäuser . In the poem Germania – The Winter by Heinrich Heine, 1844 the Kiffhäuser are again mentioned – “Yes, the whole world will be German! I thought of this mission, the universal domination of Germany, when I was walking with my dreams under the trees forever green my homeland – This is my patriotism.” 10 The Kiffhäuser Monument is also known as the Barbarossa Monument. It is at the summit of the Kyffhäuser mountain (1,574 feet) near Bad Frankenhausen in Thruingia. The Prussian dominated empire was founded in 1871. The monument features a sleeping Barbarossa about to wake up. It became a powerful symbol of the Third Reich when Hitler and Reinhardt resurrected the area in 1933 as a Nazi symbol.. IN THE WEEK THE JEWISH REFUGES WERE HANDED OVER TO THE NAZIS…(6.11.1942) Eight Jewish refuges, including a woman and two children were “extradited” to Estonia from Helsinki (no mention in the Finnish papers as of this date). They were immediately either summarily executed by shooting or sent straight to Auschwitz. The woman and child have a living witness that as soon as they arrived at Auschwitz they were sent to the gas chambers. The sole survivor now lives in Israel and is wracked with grief over his dead wife and child. It is not known what happened to the other child. So, yes, there is a clear record of Finnish generals being feted by Nazi Germany. Yes, the Finnish fascists helped deport eight/nine Jewish refuges and this is a huge blot on the country's history. However, Finland was NOT a part of the Axis. |
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#73 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,899
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This is because I was researching a book I wanted to write about Finland and the Holocaust and I was determined to get to the truth, hence my visits to see original newspaper articles, rather than jaded 'script' estbalishment textbooks.
I transcribed the ones that were directly relevant to the topic matter. I have a box file with a load of photocopied news clipping, and I will not be searching it today. But I will have a look soon. |
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#74 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,738
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Nobody has claimed they were. Just that they allied with Nazi Germany when they thought it would work in their favour.
Bad decisions have been made in the history of any country. I thought this thread was meant to celebrate the centennial, not trying to whitewash history. ETA: but if you really want to carry on, I ask you once again: how does pointing out who the victims of the Nazis were make someone an 'apologist for Hitler'? |
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#75 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 273
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Sad to see that a thread about congratulating Finnland on its anniversary has turned into some idiotic hair splitting about nazis and the good Swedes.
Anyway, congratulations to Vixen and other Suomi here! Ours is next year ![]() |
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#76 |
Knave of the Dudes
Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,870
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Jesus *********** wept, I knew you weren't too well read about WWII, but this is atrociously wrong. There were relatively few Jews, Roma and Sinti in Germany - no more than perhaps 200,000 altogether. About three million of the Jews murdered in the Holocaust lived in Poland. About two million lived in the Soviet Union. About half a million in Hungary. The rest (Between 150,000 and 10,000 per following country) mainly lived in Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, Romania, France, Greece, Yugoslavia, Austria, Belgium.
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#77 |
King of the Pod People
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,659
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Well, yes, there have been many stone age artifcats found everywhere humans have developed any sort of society. However, no sites in Finland go back farther than about 10,000 years.
There are certainly human sites older than 10,000 years, but as far as I'm aware (and I try to follow such things), none of them are in Finland. Sorry, Vixen, your "Finland for 52,000 years" map is nonsense. ETA: Just to clear something up, since this is a common misconception - terms like "Stone Age" and "Iron Age" don't refer to actual dates, they refer to stages of development that are often considered somewhat obsolete in modern scientific parlance. |
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#78 |
Knave of the Dudes
Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,870
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Indeed. As far as we know (unless som archaelogical finds that I'm unaware of contradicts this) Finland was likely largely "stone age" until fairly recently. Our earliest source, Tacitus (58-120 AD), specifically mentions that the Finnae of far northern "Germania" used arrows of bone, rather than iron. However the description is a heavily stereotped "noble savage" image, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
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#79 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
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#80 |
Penultimate Amazing
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